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  1. #1
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Hi everyone,

    I'm working on a mix which goes around the warmth of labdanum.. I found it was much
    intensified by the guaiac, but it also adds smokiness.. Anyone knows of other alternatives
    to get that same warmth boost, but without the smokiness? (I saw that proxisante has
    guaiac heart.. Could this be relevant, if we manage finding a more reasonable shipping
    procedure?).

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Try Guaiyl Acetate. It's very light but it seems to embody some aspects of Guaiacwood without any hint of smoke; it's one of my favorite materials. You could also try Buddha Wood, Siam Wood, Cabreuva & Amyris (this is more sandalwood-like but similar). I think Buddhawood that I have is closest to Guiacwood, out of the naturals mentioned and I don't detect any smokiness to it.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 19th December 2013 at 04:21 PM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  3. #3
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Thanks! These will definitely go on my order next month..
    Spent too much this month

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Almost forgot: Copaiba Balsam
    Justin E. Beasley

  5. #5
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Luckily there's a small flask with copaiba balsam making its way to me
    as we speak
    The cabreuva didn't really work.. And I don't have amyris, but if it's close
    to sandalwood, it's not doing it for me either..

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    You might find Guaiyl Acetate to be what you are looking for, it has a clean and clear woody smell.
    Justin E. Beasley

  7. #7
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Hmm... I can barely smell it - not on a strip.. The only way is when I get really close
    to the bottle.. Not sure it could have any effect in a blend, unless I use tons.. How
    do you typically use it?
    Also, Buddhawood was close indeed, but for some reason it made the bled smell
    funky - a bit too animalic and sour..

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Hmm... I can barely smell it - not on a strip.. The only way is when I get really close
    to the bottle.. Not sure it could have any effect in a blend, unless I use tons.. How
    do you typically use it?
    Also, Buddhawood was close indeed, but for some reason it made the bled smell
    funky - a bit too animalic and sour..
    Which material are you referring to?
    Justin E. Beasley

  9. #9
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Oops.. I was referring to guaiyl acetate..

  10. #10
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    There are different guaiyl acetates, some smell more than others...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Mine has very little odor too. You might have to create a Guiacwood accord. Maybe try adding some ebanol to it, that will make it more voluminous but it might also move it more in the direction sandalwood which I understand you don't want. Have you tried adding Iso E Super or Kephalis to your Guaiyl Acetate? You could try mixing Buddhawood, Guayl Acetate, Ebanol, Iso E Super and Kephalis... I really like Kephalis, I think it's a very nice wood smell all on it's own.
    Justin E. Beasley

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    There are different guaiyl acetates, some smell more than others...

    PK
    When you say "different" do you mean from different producers or different retailers or both? Do you know of a retailer who sells a good Guaiyl Acetate, with a high odor strength, in small quantities?

    I have noticed discrepancies between different vendors products but I'm unsure what to chalk that up to - age, adulterants, dilution, all of the above? I thought that the "good thing" about aroma chemicals over EO's is that they are supposed to be more stable from batch to batch and less prone to spoilage, lol.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 21st January 2014 at 05:06 AM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  13. #13
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Hmm.. I will give ebanol a whiff.. and kephalis. Can't recall the smells, as I
    didn't work with those yet. Maybe I'll just wait for some guaiac heart..

  14. #14
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    When you say "different" do you mean from different producers or different retailers or both? Do you know of a retailer who sells a good Guaiyl Acetate, with a high odor strength, in small quantities?

    I have noticed discrepancies between different vendors products but I'm unsure what to chalk that up to - age, adulterants, dilution, all of the above? I thought that the "good thing" about aroma chemicals over EO's is that they are supposed to be more stable from batch to batch and less prone to spoilage, lol.
    Since I managed smelling my guaiyl acetate today, though it's indeed very faint -
    I'm joining in on this question regarding suppliers.
    Some aroma chemicals are mixtures of isomers (maybe?) - is that the case with
    guayil acetate as well?

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Pemou root is the root of siam wood, it has a bitter, woody, character similar to vetiver, siam and guaiac although guaiac is definitely softer and more smooth. Pemou might be in the ballpark of what you are looking for as it doesn't have quite the smokiness and it's a good fixative too.
    Justin E. Beasley

  16. #16
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Hmm.. Mine smells pretty piney.. Where did you get yours?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Hmm.. Mine smells pretty piney.. Where did you get yours?
    I got my Pemou root from Liberty Naturals, I don't detect much in the way of pine. Mine is more bitter and earthy like a combo of guaiac, siam and vetiver without the smoke.
    Justin E. Beasley

  18. #18
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    Maybe the one I got isn't from the root.. I'll try asking..

  19. #19
    New Member moogsauce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting guaiac warmth without the smoke

    +1 on the retailer for a good Guaiyl Acetate... mine is lovely but far too faint. Purchased from PA. Same goes for my Eugenyl Acetate.

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