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Thread: Reviews..

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    I don't know the difficulties involved, but I do agree with this. When I came I tried to review several fragrances not in the database, including two exciting ones from Majda Bekkali. Instead, I had to discuss them in the forums and soon I gravitated away from posting reviews.
    I'm not entirely sure of the difficulties involved, either, because there are always thousands of different ways to manage any software change behind the scenes. But I did try to come up with an answer that minimizes the overall amount of change from the current system, and that is always a realistic path. If you have to make conditionals like "just add this package" or "just add this extension" or "just go to this other model", then you're talking a lot of ifs. But if we can continue use something almost identical to the current mechanism, then I am sure that Grant can take the basic idea and look for hacks to make it happen. A single "unknown" fragrance? A single folder that it dumps into? A changing, uniquely defined "unknown" fragrance, based on clock values, that gets renamed? There are always lots of ways to pull something off. I just hope that one can be found that's reasonable and doable without too much effort.

    I've had the same experience with reviews - I'm either looking to see if there are reviews, or what is known about the fragrance - and then it's just not there, and - do I want to take time, or..... - and then it's gone. Being given the option to just submit it all on the spot - picture included - man - that would be sweet. There is a real sense of accomplishment from a combined submission and review, that I think will get people to contribute more, and more often.
    * * * *

  2. #32
    Dependent danieq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I'm not entirely sure of the difficulties involved, either, because there are always thousands of different ways to manage any software change behind the scenes. But I did try to come up with an answer that minimizes the overall amount of change from the current system, and that is always a realistic path. If you have to make conditionals like "just add this package" or "just add this extension" or "just go to this other model", then you're talking a lot of ifs. But if we can continue use something almost identical to the current mechanism, then I am sure that Grant can take the basic idea and look for hacks to make it happen. A single "unknown" fragrance? A single folder that it dumps into? A changing, uniquely defined "unknown" fragrance, based on clock values, that gets renamed? There are always lots of ways to pull something off. I just hope that one can be found that's reasonable and doable without too much effort.

    I've had the same experience with reviews - I'm either looking to see if there are reviews, or what is known about the fragrance - and then it's just not there, and - do I want to take time, or..... - and then it's gone. Being given the option to just submit it all on the spot - picture included - man - that would be sweet. There is a real sense of accomplishment from a combined submission and review, that I think will get people to contribute more, and more often.

    I have to agree that the lag time is a real killer. I almost never bother with reviews from this directory because there are so few. I've posted quite a few on Fragrantica because of the ease of doing so. I do notice a different quality to the reviews found here, but since there are so many more elsewhere and it's so much easier to contribute, that is what I do. I'd love to contribute here as well, but waiting publication is somewhat discouraging and could feel a bit exclusive.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    I have to agree that the lag time is a real killer. I almost never bother with reviews from this directory because there are so few. I've posted quite a few on Fragrantica because of the ease of doing so. I do notice a different quality to the reviews found here, but since there are so many more elsewhere and it's so much easier to contribute, that is what I do. I'd love to contribute here as well, but waiting publication is somewhat discouraging and could feel a bit exclusive.
    I should go look at Fragrantica, but I'm scared it will tempt me!
    * * * *

  4. #34

    Default Re: Reviews..

    Very good points, RP.

    I agree that the critical issues for most members and prospective members are the timely additions of new fragrances to the Directory and reviews of these new fragrances.

    Regarding older, discontinued, or obscure fragrances, which are especially interesting to me, I have always hoped that Basenotes could become a resource for aficionados of these fragrances. The Directory is notably lacking many of these fragrances and reviews of them are even more scarce. About a fifth of my entire wardrobe have no entries in the Directory. This is no small number, around 400 fragrances.

    As far as writing reviews myself, my idea is to write reviews for these fragrances first and foremost. We don't need a 150th review of Aventus when there are already 149. What we need is reviews of fragrances for which there are no reviews.

    I'm all for helping input these fragrances into the Directory, but don't want to be hindered by unecessary constraints and protocols. For many of these fragrances all I know is the house and the name. Internet searches turn up nothing, and nothing can be verified. In their past submission procedures, Basenotes has required too much information be provided, and have even asked that accents and such for foreign languages be observed. I respect the desire for accuracy, but in these cases it isn't practical. If you're going to make it difficult and place too many conditions on submittal, then I won't do it. Practicality must trump the search for accuracy and completeness. Details and corrections can be added or made later.

    I'm on my iPad at the office and can't get into this in any greater detail now, but can do more when I get off work. Interesting conversation!

  5. #35

    Default Re: Reviews..

    I agree with Grant's philosophy that there should be some editorial control over reviews.

    Look at Fragrantica, with reviews in various languages, some nothing but attempts to sell a fragrance, others asking where to buy a fragrance, etc. That sort of stuff needs to be weeded out.

    Instead of delaying the posting of a review until after it is subjected to editorial approval, why not post it immediately and do the review afterwards? Surely the vast number of submitted reviews are okay, with only a small number being rejected or needing modification. These can be dealt with after the fact. It makes more sense to do it this way rather than delaying everything just in case you find something unacceptable.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by noggs View Post
    Instead of delaying the posting of a review until after it is subjected to editorial approval, why not post it immediately and do the review afterwards? Surely the vast number of submitted reviews are okay, with only a small number being rejected or needing modification. These can be dealt with after the fact. It makes more sense to do it this way rather than delaying everything just in case you find something unacceptable.
    This is the wiki principle, which is actually the same principle that Apple runs on, and liberal democracies as opposed to police states. It's the idea that most people will do the basics of construction right, and that the administrators only need to police what doesn't get done right. Steve Jobs always called it trusting the other guy to do his part. Great video describing it. He claimed that is what made Apple work.
    * * * *

  7. #37

    Default Re: Reviews..

    We have several members who make an effort to keep us updated with info about new fragrance releases. These announcements are usually posted to the FFD and MFD boards.

    Unfortunately it is usually weeks or months (or never) before this same info is entered into the Directory.

    Frankly, this seems silly. The information is already on the website. A member is thoughtful enough to get the info and is willing to put in the effort to post it. The same effort by the same individual, probably even less, could be used to enter the info into the Directory immediately. It seems like a no-brainer to me to take advantage of this.

    I know Basenotes was Grant's baby. But the baby is now an adolescent. The adolescent needs a bit more freedom, more room to grow.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Has everyone read Judith's posts 9 &12 here yet?
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/372...-the-Directory

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    I'd like to post some reviews: I've been using the site for a couple of years and have a learnt a huge amount from other members' experiences, so it's payback time.

    However, I'm loath to spend time writing reviews if they're just going to disappear into a black hole. I'd rather wait until everything is working seamlessly before investing more time. Once six months' worth of accumulated knowledge - in the form of the Huddler threads - is back, I'll be more relaxed, but it sounds like there's quite a way to go before that happens. In sum, I appreciate the work everyone is doing behind the scenes but prefer to remain cautious.
    Last edited by saminlondon; 23rd December 2013 at 10:12 AM.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    I almost never bother with reviews from this directory because there are so few. (...)
    I'd love to contribute here as well, but waiting publication is somewhat discouraging and could feel a bit exclusive.
    Are there really "so few" reviews here?

    Is really that bothering to have to wait a few weeks for a review to appear? I understand that immediate publication equals immediate gratification, but is it really that important? A review should be something "official", IMO, your take on a given fragrance, so I can't see the hurry. In my strictly personal experience, I felt quite weird on Huddler with the immediate publication, I felt I was doing something somewhat.. cheap and hurried- you know, the thought that you could re-write it any time...

    I understand the difficulty with not finding fragrances in the directory and the laborious process of adding new ones, but I can't see how this could interfere with writing reviews of known and recorded fragrances...
    "Your fragrance with a fume of iodine" L. Cohen

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    I agree. I have hesitated a few times purchasing fragrances because there weren't enough or no reviews about them.
    Currently wearing: Memoir Man by Amouage

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by iodine View Post
    Are there really "so few" reviews here?

    Is really that bothering to have to wait a few weeks for a review to appear? I understand that immediate publication equals immediate gratification, but is it really that important? A review should be something "official", IMO, your take on a given fragrance, so I can't see the hurry. In my strictly personal experience, I felt quite weird on Huddler with the immediate publication, I felt I was doing something somewhat.. cheap and hurried- you know, the thought that you could re-write it any time...

    I understand the difficulty with not finding fragrances in the directory and the laborious process of adding new ones, but I can't see how this could interfere with writing reviews of known and recorded fragrances...
    I had a long and overly technical answer, but I'm going to make this as short as I possibly can.

    In the data industry, CURRENCY IS KING. Not money currency - the other kind. The leading edge is the one that counts. Weeks are too long. Currency needs to be measured in DAYS. The more high-quality data the sooner, the better.

    This is not obvious. But it makes a HUGE difference in attracting and retaining customers. HUGE. In our case, that is both review writers and review readers as customers.
    * * * *

  13. #43

    Default Re: Reviews..

    RP, I'm with you. I'd rather have the Mods/admins use their limited time in other ways than having to put reviews up on the Directory. Yes, quality may suffer, but this can be addressed in other ways (guidelines, oversight, community response).

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoista View Post
    RP, I'm with you. I'd rather have the Mods/admins use their limited time in other ways than having to put reviews up on the Directory. Yes, quality may suffer, but this can be addressed in other ways (guidelines, oversight, community response).
    Community response is actually a great one, in terms of making corrections. I am continuously amazed by the quality of information on Wikipedia. The level of care and respect for information between people is truly amazing. The quality of the information is amazing. The timeliness of information is amazing (most of the time, a new idea in the news will have at least something on Wikipedia already).

    It's basically like bees and honey - they all value it, they all take care of it. Even when I made my first entry on Wikipedia, I saw how this works. I was approaching as a specialist, editing a nearly stub-like entry made by a non-specialist. What that person had written was wrong, but I felt obliged to carry their wording into the correction, and when I was done with it, I was certain that they would actually like my changes, and regard it as an enhancement. So what I'm saying is that even though we probably don't want to edit each others' reviews, I think that we (long-term and high-post members) can be trusted to update pictures, perfumers, and other technical data - and to respect what other people did, while correcting it as needed. I have often spotted technical errors on BN. Sometimes I get it in my gut to report the error - other times I just let it slide. I will bet that letting it slide happens a lot, because the fix costs more than the error. We need to reduce the cost of new entries, reviews, and the correction of data. All of these are things that many trusted worker-bees can be counted on to carry out with a net benefit, if it's easy to do.
    * * * *

  15. #45

    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

    It's basically like bees and honey - they all value it, they all take care of it.
    Agreed. You are reminding me that there's a slightly obscure Wikipedia entry I've been meaning to correct!

    To your point, it does seem like the power of the community can be leveraged here.

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by iodine View Post
    Are there really "so few" reviews here?

    Is really that bothering to have to wait a few weeks for a review to appear? I understand that immediate publication equals immediate gratification, but is it really that important? A review should be something "official", IMO, your take on a given fragrance, so I can't see the hurry. In my strictly personal experience, I felt quite weird on Huddler with the immediate publication, I felt I was doing something somewhat.. cheap and hurried- you know, the thought that you could re-write it any time...

    I understand the difficulty with not finding fragrances in the directory and the laborious process of adding new ones, but I can't see how this could interfere with writing reviews of known and recorded fragrances...
    I wouldn't say I am bothered, I just use another resource which is currently available to me, is super easy to use and allows me to get the info I want, which is real people's personal reactions to a fragrance that I am interested in. For me, I'm not looking for professionally styled reviews, if I want Luca Turin, I'll look him up. What I want is people's experience quickly and easily accessed in a gigantic data base. At least that is what I want for now.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Reviews..

    Just to add my 2C. I know the team are perennially working on it blah blah blah but the delay in adding new fragrances to the database (which predates Huddlerisation and de-Huddlerisation) is a real MINUS for this site. The forum is the best out there but the directory is shamed by Fragrantica and Parfumo.net. I must have reported Speick EdT as missing over a year ago and it still isn't there. I gave up after that. The absent Jardins d'Ecrivains line has been available for over 6/12 and in the Fragrantica database since the off. I'm sure we can all think of other examples. Want to check out a new fragrance? Go to Fragrantica.

    Also, disallowing non-Plus members from immediate publication of reviews is a backwards step IMO. I perused all the new reviews during the Huddlergeddon and there were only a couple of blatant spammy or offensive ones. These could just be reported to the mods. The delay of several weeks before publication is a real disincentive to reviewers. For reviews of new releases it is a disadvantage to all users. Are these reviews of reviews really necessary? Seems like a huge waste of time and effort to me.

    I second RP's comments about allowing longer-standing members to correct errors or add fragrances directly. Trolls don't stay long here because they don't get the attention they crave. I reported that incorrect picture for Bogart PH (2004) months ago and it's still the same. It gives the impression there is no-one on the other end. Maybe they are all too busy trawling through new reviews for naughty words.

    Don't get me wrong, this is a very good site but it could be great.

    /moan


  18. #48

    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    Don't get me wrong, this is a very good site but it could be great.
    I've felt this way since I joined seven years ago.

    But what we want may not be what Grant wants. If he wants to run the site as a hobby, which is how I perceive it has been run until now, I don't foresee any great changes. If he wants to run it along more commercial lines and make Basenotes the internet resource for fragrances, he has to give up absolute control and accept more help. He also has to allow the site to change and grow so that it keeps pace with what the market expects. I don't understand the Huddler fiasco, but I wasn't surprised by it. Perhaps that was an attempt to transform the site into something else.

    Redneck Perfumisto has made some astute comments above about websites and the marketplace. I believe he understands the larger picture and what could be achieved.

    What does Grant intend? IMO I think Basenotes will remain more of a hobby. I haven't seen anything in seven years to make me think otherwise. And Basenotes being run as a hobby is a perfectly legitimate and reasonable thing.

    Fragrantica, despite its relative completeness, is all over the place and seems to lack integrity or consistency. I just never got Parfumo at all. Yes, their fragrance directory is more complete, but it's basically just a list of fragrances. The community there is like a ghost town.

    Basenotes has the most potential, and I think most of us see that.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    We all see the potential, but this might not be the best time of year to raise the question!

  20. #50

    Default Re: Reviews..

    I wrote 500+ reviews, and then my market area dried up for new fragrances that interest me. We get lots of new celebrity scents here. I could go out write a bunch of new, negative reviews, but (somehow) I hate to spritz myself with most of them! I'll have to go back to reviewing by ordering samples. After I go through the Slumberhouse sample pass, I'll have something to write. Those will be worth comment.

    That does bring up a point, too. If you want to stimulate reviews, do a sample pass. Get some vials, start a thread, and send them around. An added bonus is that you get to find out what other people think about the same fragrances that you have smelled (or own).

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    You are amazing , Purplebird! 500 reviews+! Although, I have to admit, I'm glad I didn't write any during Huddler. The blog entries I did are lost now :-( I promise to start reviewing again when they get this sorted out. I do want to contribute but most of those I try are new from LuckyScent samples I buy and there aren't any listings for them in the directory yet :-(


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  22. #52
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    The Huddler reviews have been returning recently.

    If anyone wishes to contribute details of new products, this is the link
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

    There should also be 'Sample of the Day' threads for note-making.
    Last edited by lpp; 27th December 2013 at 06:21 PM.

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    The Huddler reviews have been returning recently.

    If anyone wishes to contribute details of new products, this is the link
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

    There should also be 'Sample of the Day' threads for note-making.
    Thanks for the info!

  24. #54

    Default Re: Reviews..

    I am one of those who think that waiting for a review to be published for several weeks is a bit too much, and it's not because I crave fame on the forum . I've posted reviews here and waited patiently, but then the server changed, and I noticed that the reviews I had published previously had new and strange punctuation errors: The apostrophe 's was all messed up almost everywhere! Editing these errors proved time-consuming, and sometimes, after editing them, I'd go back and see that the error is still there. I'm afraid to look now, once the server was changed again. For some reason, I have trouble searching for reviews, too.

    I admit I post reviews on Fragrantica more often than here because it's easier, but I think their balloon system is annoying.

  25. #55
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Maybe somehow someway it can be done faster like in the Huddler days?
    That was awesome!!

  26. #56
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    If i want t KNOW (reviews,notes,perfumer etc.) about a fragrance, i go to Fragrantica. If i want to TALK about it, i go to Basenotes.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Hopefully, once the Muddler backlog has been cleared, new entries of all sorts should be faster.
    Last edited by lpp; 28th December 2013 at 10:45 PM.

  28. #58

    Default Re: Reviews..

    Hello,

    Unfortunately I don't have the time to go into everything discussed on this thread in detail - I have mentioned it to Grant, however, particularly RP's input.

    In the meantime, can I just dispel once and for all the myth that it tales several weeks/months for non-BN Plus reviews to appear? This is not the case - and hasn't been so for nearly three years!

    Currently I'm a bit behind due to the Christmas break - so the oldest reviews on the list go back to just before then. The usual time scale is up to a week, maybe two if I'm really busy. We prefer to do it this way rather than let through some of the spam etc. which gets posted - which would then have to be reported and deleted - and in the meantime clogs up the site with irrelevant (and sometimes offensive) postings.

    We are hoping to put up a list of guidelines for reviewers at some point.
    Currently wearing: Mandom by Mandom

  29. #59

    Default Re: Reviews..

    I'm going to review all this feedback over the next few days

    CHeers
    Currently wearing: Gardénia by Chanel

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Reviews..

    Thx for being honest Judith and Grant

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