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  1. #61
    Basenotes Plus

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    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Labdanum is a resin, and I had luck with the resinoid, IIRC. It needed melting and was alcohol soluble. In most of my readings the EO was called "cistus." But maybe few talk that way now. Loved that stuff.
    You quoted your own post, hahaha. I have Cistus EO from Liberty Naturals, it's a nice material and different from labdanum although I can see the similarity. The cistus EO is quite a bit more aromatic than labdanum, it has a "fuzzy" aldehydic aspect to it and somewhat terpenic.
    Justin E. Beasley

  2. #62

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    DrSmell - you did say that a lot of things will work with labdanum, but I thought it
    was worthwhile saying what I found since I was very specific about what I was
    looking for..

  3. #63

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    DrSmell - you did say that a lot of things will work with labdanum, but I thought it
    was worthwhile saying what I found since I was very specific about what I was
    looking for..
    Absolutely, and glad you're making progress. I thought it could be helpful to beginners/intermediates to make some general statements of principle. But you know exactly what you want.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    But you know exactly what you want.
    Did I fool you into thinking that?

  5. #65

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I don't want to start a whole new thread. I already know how to support Labdanum as a base note from this one.
    Can You guys advise me a bit what would mix good with Labdanum i general?
    I have a lot of trouble getting any satisfying blends making perfume with Labdanum as it's base note.
    Any idea what makes Andy Warhol's SIlver Factory so good? It's Labdanum note there. Isn't it?

  6. #66

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    One of my favorite uses of labdanum in general is in Hermes' Bel Ami, where it is part of a russian leather accord and is a prominent note in the perfume. I think that is a beautiful perfume, if it hasn't been reformulated recently...

    So you might try a leather accord. Although now I recall you saying that mixing with castoreum was too leathery, so maybe that's not a good suggestion. There are a lot of good miscellaneous leather notes, such as wintergreen-related materials, even summer savory.

    BTW to me a good labdanum should stand on its own, or at least almost. There is a huge variation from bush to bush in smoothness, animalic quality, sweetness, and richness, those deesired qualities . If I had an inferior quality, I'm sure i would be frustrated trying to blend with it. Everything would be lacking. Do you love your labdanum by itself?

    I'd think coumarin or tonka would be nice with it. I thnik lime accords with it. Any spice is worth trying, and any creamy note. Anise would work Lavender, bergamot

  7. #67
    Basenotes Plus

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    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    One of my favorite uses of labdanum in general is in Hermes' Bel Ami, where it is part of a russian leather accord and is a prominent note in the perfume. I think that is a beautiful perfume, if it hasn't been reformulated recently...

    So you might try a leather accord. Although now I recall you saying that mixing with castoreum was too leathery, so maybe that's not a good suggestion. There are a lot of good miscellaneous leather notes, such as wintergreen-related materials, even summer savory.

    BTW to me a good labdanum should stand on its own, or at least almost. There is a huge variation from bush to bush in smoothness, animalic quality, sweetness, and richness, those deesired qualities . If I had an inferior quality, I'm sure i would be frustrated trying to blend with it. Everything would be lacking. Do you love your labdanum by itself?

    I'd think coumarin or tonka would be nice with it. I thnik lime accords with it. Any spice is worth trying, and any creamy note. Anise would work Lavender, bergamot
    BelAmi is one of my favorites, it has been reformulated since the shaker bottle, somewhere around 2006-2007, now it's in a rectangular bottle. I had both versions together and the shaker bottle definitely was less ozone and richer by contrast. I didn't make the labdanum connection, I'll have to pay more attention next time, what I got was carnation, leather, ionones, coriander, birch tar and bergamot... labdanum sounds right though, good stuff.
    Justin E. Beasley

  8. #68

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by GuerlainJedi View Post
    I don't want to start a whole new thread. I already know how to support Labdanum as a base note from this one.
    Can You guys advise me a bit what would mix good with Labdanum i general?
    I have a lot of trouble getting any satisfying blends making perfume with Labdanum as it's base note.
    Any idea what makes Andy Warhol's SIlver Factory so good? It's Labdanum note there. Isn't it?
    Labdanum with Cistus (same plant, different process). Labdanum with Patchouli, or Sandalwood or Vetiver. Use it with florals, really good with Rose. Labdanum, Patchouli and Carnation; classic.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Funny, I was just browsing through the Hermitage page and saw they're also selling Cistus. What is the difference between the two?
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Labdanum with Cistus (same plant, different process). Labdanum with Patchouli, or Sandalwood or Vetiver. Use it with florals, really good with Rose. Labdanum, Patchouli and Carnation; classic.
    Update :

    Here's something I found :
    http://naturesgiftaromatherapy.blogs...danum-aha.html
    Last edited by Nizan; 26th October 2014 at 10:40 AM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Funny, I was just browsing through the Hermitage page and saw they're also selling Cistus. What is the difference between the two?
    Thanks!



    Update :

    Here's something I found :
    http://naturesgiftaromatherapy.blogs...danum-aha.html
    Interestingly I had the advantage at the last BSP symposium of being in the same group with a very senior perfumer from Firmenich who wasn’t embarrassed to ask that question of the highly-respected producer who was presenting. Here’s the answer she gave as closely as I can remember it:

    Cistus oil and absolute are produced from the entire top growth of the the Cistus ladinifer plant by steam distillation or solent extraction respectively.

    Labdanum is produced by the following process: the roots of the plant are pulled up and very carefully washed. The resious lumps that adhere to the roots are then knocked off the cleaned roots by a mechanical process and that resin is then either steam distilled or solvent extracted to produce labdanum essential oil or labdanum resinoid respectively.
    I’m quite sure that there are other factors involved because there are some distinct differences between producers so the method described in your link could also be used, though I’m pretty sure goats are not involved ...

    Finally you may also want to know that there are materials such as Ambrarome (from Synarome) and Ambrain (from IFF) that are extracted by proprietary processes from the labdanum resin (referred to as gum-labdanum sometimes though I think incorrectly - see details on my blog for definitions). These are highly animalic in smell and designed as plant-based alternatives to the traditional animal components of perfumery.

    EDIT: I’ve covered some of this in a rather old blog post about ambergris substitutes that you might like to check out too.
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 26th October 2014 at 01:18 PM. Reason: added link to post clarifying terms
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