Code of Conduct
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 60 of 64
  1. #1
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Post Supporting labdanum as base note

    I've been going around this for a couple of weeks, as some of you notices.
    I don't seem to be getting anywhere, and some help would probably make
    me somewhat happier
    I'm planning on using labdanum as a center for a base note, and wanted to
    enhance its warm sweet skin aspect. I've done some experimenting, some
    of which are -

    • Civet (from perfumer's world) - adds warmth, but the scents separate.. will
      probably need to add a blender.
    • Ambroxan/fix - a step in the right direction, but a bit too powdery/musky
    • Cassia - too dry
    • Cedramber - same
    • Castoreum (PW) - a bit too leathery - takes away the sweetness..
    • Spikenard - jockstrap
    • Different musks - exaltolide, galaxolide - too laundry/powder
    • Cotausol - Maybe.. A bit too bright.

    (I'm providing some details as someone in the future might find it useful,
    or will give someone ideas..)

    And there were a few more.. I also looked at the GSC GC analysis, but it doesn't say much to me, as most chemicals aren't
    available..

    Does anyone know which of the chems in the GC give it its warmth
    and sweetness? Any other ideas how to support this aspect of the
    scent?

    Danke Shoen

  2. #2
    mstrocovie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philly burbs
    Posts
    257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Love Labdanum. To me its one of those materials that can stand alone. I like blending it with benzoin or other sweet resinous bases. My 2 cents
    Zanshin

  3. #3

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Peruoil maybe? Benzoe? In a base goes perfectly with Patchouli and Vetyver. Copaiva?
    http://www.aromatisches-blog.de
    Here`s something for the tip of your nose!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Fossilized amber tincture, vanilla tincture and honey absolue.

  5. #5
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    Fossilized amber tincture, vanilla tincture and honey absolue.
    Yes, that fossilized amber is nice, it will also impart a mild but warm and smooth smoke note too.
    Also, frankincense resinoid
    Justin E. Beasley

  6. #6
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I've had that amber on my sites.. Having high hopes for it. As for peru and copaiba - not exactly what I'm looking for (though my peru and bezoine resinoids smell really bitter - it takes a couple of weeks for this bitterness to disperse. Some weird artifact of shipping). I will have to try tincturing, as frankincense oil is too fresh..
    And as for gourmand - don't have real vanilla.. Will try vanillin when I get some. Any experience with maltols anyone? I thought honey is a middle note, no?

    And ideas for chems?

    Thanks everyone

  7. #7
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I've tried patchouli, but it's too smokey. Maybe when I get the coeur..

  8. #8
    Basenotes Member aubrieta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Ethyl Vanillin pairs nicely with labdanum. Also, have you tried something along the lines of ebanol/sandalwood?

  9. #9
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by aubrieta View Post
    Ethyl Vanillin pairs nicely with labdanum. Also, have you tried something along the lines of ebanol/sandalwood?
    I heard horror stories about ethyl vanillin nit coming off bottles, so I didn't get any.. I've tried sandal - it outlives labdanum by a factor of 4, so I'm not sure about it.. It also cools things down a bit.. I have some other woods on the way that I might try..
    It feels like it's going nowhere with all those two notes experiments.. But that's a part of this art, I guess..

  10. #10
    Basenotes Member aubrieta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    So what is your goal? To give it a more rounded/robust quality? Or to increase the "sizzle and smoke" aspect? If you want to give it a good amber effect, I would recommend at least trying a vanilla. Ethyl Vanillin is not so bad to work with. Or possibly coumarin...I love coumarin.

  11. #11
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Will try both..

    Any idea how to add some espresso scents? My coffee abs smells like Turkish coffee.. Do they add something to the beans to make them smell like that?

  12. #12
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    "Bitter benzoin, smokey patchouli and turkish coffee", all descriptions that are totally different from my experiences. The benzoin I have is sweet, balsamic with a root beer aspect. All of my patchoulis are earthy but I wouldn't describe any as smokey and my coffee absolute just smells of normal black coffee albeit a bit sweeter - almost like black coffee with sugar in it. Check out Tonka bean for a coumarinic natural.
    Justin E. Beasley

  13. #13
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    The bitterness will go away.. It's a weird thing that happens on some shipped EO/resins..
    The patchouli made it dirty/smokey.. Two friends even said it smells like camphoric Chinese medicine (in that blend..). Not sure what you mean when you say black coffee, coz from what I saw in the US it's slightly different from what we call black coffee (here we use it interchangeably with Turkish coffee). Anyhow, it's not as full like espresso.. But maybe I'll give it a try and sweeten in with vanilla/coumarin..

  14. #14
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    The bitterness will go away.. It's a weird thing that happens on some shipped EO/resins..
    The patchouli made it dirty/smokey.. Two friends even said it smells like camphoric Chinese medicine (in that blend..). Not sure what you mean when you say black coffee, coz from what I saw in the US it's slightly different from what we call black coffee (here we use it interchangeably with Turkish coffee). Anyhow, it's not as full like espresso.. But maybe I'll give it a try and sweeten in with vanilla/coumarin..
    Just goes to show how different peoples senses can be. Your patchouli might be fresher and have a lot more volotiles than mine. Try an aged patchouli, I have a five year patchouli and patchouli absolute both with very little trace of top notes. I just looked up turkish coffee and it looks like it is black coffee with sugar in it but it's probably specifically an arabic coffee. That is how my coffee abs smells. Vanilla and tonka/coumarin would be nice additions albeit sweet, if that's what you want it will definitely take it in that direction. Also check out levistamel for a sweet, mildly balsamic aroma chem - dilute, a little goes a long way.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 3rd January 2014 at 04:01 AM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  15. #15
    gido's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    1,715
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I haven't read much into the thread (just the first few messages) but what about fixateur 505? Should be a closer match than Ambroxan.

  16. #16
    Basenotes Plus
    Chris Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I've had that amber on my sites.. Having high hopes for it. As for peru and copaiba - not exactly what I'm looking for (though my peru and bezoine resinoids smell really bitter - it takes a couple of weeks for this bitterness to disperse. Some weird artifact of shipping). I will have to try tincturing, as frankincense oil is too fresh..
    And as for gourmand - don't have real vanilla.. Will try vanillin when I get some. Any experience with maltols anyone? I thought honey is a middle note, no?

    And ideas for chems?

    Thanks everyone
    Some thoughts that have not been mentioned previously & may help:

    With olibanum (frankincense) you want the resinoid rather than the oil - that way youíll get the incense note rather than the lemony one. Failing that try some oil from Boswelia neglecta instead of the usual sacra or carterii.

    One of my favourite things with labdanum is Habanolide - really works with it well - use freely.

    To get a gentle chocolaty-coffee note (rather than the burnt-toast effect you get from coffee absolute) try using a combination of a very light patchouli, ebanol, cashmeran, ambermax, ethyl maltol (trace) and ethyl vanillin.

    Personally I find honey absolute a bit underwhelming but you can get a nice honey-floral note from phenyl ethyl acetate.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    @Chris: This might be a silly question but it's the right moment to ask: is there scent-wise a difference between honeycomb abs. and honey abs.? (I own the honeycomb abs.)
    Last edited by Graphite; 3rd January 2014 at 06:04 PM.

  18. #18
    Basenotes Plus
    Chris Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    There are several bee products of potential interest to the perfumer. Technically honey and honeycomb should be two different products but in practice true honey abs is very rare & what us sold under that name is usually honeycomb abs.

    The really interesting product however is propolis - I have smelt, but never used in a perfume, this material. I'd love to have a supply to tincture as it has the most amazing animalic, balsamic, complex scent.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I don't understand this thread too well because labdanum is almost the easiest thing in perfuming to find good combos with. It smells good by itself. It's almost like sandalwood or musk. Nothing doesn't combine with sandalwood or musk. I can't think of anything you can't blend with labdanum or cistus.

    Labdanum is an amber note. There are countless amber notes. All of them will blend well with labdanum. The most basic thing to blend with labdanum is benzoin, but there are easily hundreds of amber notes. There's almost no wrong answer.

    There are hundreds of warm, sweet things. There are many things that suggest skin, and all of them go with labdanum. Costus, musks, ambergris, iso-e. Just try ambergris. I can't imagine anything less than stellar results.

    BTW, I like honey abs. Very floral and animalic. Like champaca.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 3rd January 2014 at 09:42 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Thank you for your answer, Chris.
    On the propolis, I recently saw some in my organic supermarket and thought of tincturing it! But I was unsure if it's worth it. Now I did a quick research and found lots of offers, ranging between 22€ and 40€ per 100g at beekeeper (five e's!) shops or under 15€ at ebay. Raw propolis, powder or chunks. Or are you looking for something special?

    Regarding the honeycomb I have two varieties here. One is golden in colour, Cire d'Abeille (beeswax), and has this bold beeswax aroma; to me animalic, raw and warm. The other one, BrŤche d'Abeille (couldn't find a translation), is medium brown, does not need to be filtered and is very mild with delicate hints of cocoa and cinnamon.
    I will surely get some propolis and report :-) Thanks for sharing this!

  21. #21
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I eat propolis almost daily and I have experimented with tincture - my tinctures didn't turn out due to my handling and process so I have not used any of this material yet.

    Propolis can taste different depending on what kind of plants the bees are gathering from so if you have any control over your propolis source or type it might be a good idea to exercise it. I imagine that clover propolis will make a different smelling tincture than if you were to use buckwheat propolis... maybe the distributors blend all of the types together, I don't know, however propolis can taste different from batch to batch just like every other natural material. It's also interesting how different batches of propolis can look drastically different. I have had some batches that were all yellow, or all orange and then there are some that are yellow, orange, green and brown in the same package.
    Justin E. Beasley

  22. #22
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Hmm.. Maybe I should get me some propolis.. You dissolve it in hot water, or just eat it with a spoon?
    Chris - thanks for the tips! I just though that maybe I should start acquainting myself with resinoids. And also for the chemicals tips.. I have most of those
    DrSmell - I have a certain impression that I want to get, that's why I'm so picky with mixing.. Ambergris and ambrox did get me closer, but most things I tried weren't going in the right direction..

  23. #23
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Hmm.. Maybe I should get me some propolis.. You dissolve it in hot water, or just eat it with a spoon?
    Chris - thanks for the tips! I just though that maybe I should start acquainting myself with resinoids. And also for the chemicals tips.. I have most of those
    DrSmell - I have a certain impression that I want to get, that's why I'm so picky with mixing.. Ambergris and ambrox did get me closer, but most things I tried weren't going in the right direction..
    I usually blend it into a protein shake with banana and rice milk but you can eat it any way you like it, it's also great for making protein bars with nut butters and grains. It's very mildly honey sweet, floral, animalic and slightly malty. I like the texture and its has some benefit to health in addition to providing a mild energy boost (B-vitamins, anti-microbial activity, amino acids, protein, carbohydrates, etc). Anecdotally it's said to be good for people with seasonal allergies if you are eating propolis from local bees that use local pollen however I have not experienced this benefit so I can not vouch for it. All I can attest to is that it tastes good, I like the texture in foods and it puts a little more pep in my step.
    Justin E. Beasley

  24. #24
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    My fake vanilla seems to work nicely at low dilutions.. I've also tried sniffing it with calamus room - pretty interesting. Anyone has some experience with it?

  25. #25
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    With olibanum (frankincense) you want the resinoid rather than the oil
    It seems quite hard to find this resinoid online from a supplier which ships to Israel for normal fees (I only found one).. Is using a tincture of the resin equivalent to the resinoid? Does myrrh resinoid also smell more like the incense (I like the incense, but can't stand the oil/co2)..

  26. #26
    Paul Kiler
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    http://www.nematinternational.com/pr..._absolutes.php

    A tincture of the resin is very useful but is different from the resinoid too.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  27. #27
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    http://www.nematinternational.com/pr..._absolutes.php
    A tincture of the resin is very useful but is different from the resinoid too.
    PK
    Paul, I thought EO/abs extraction or tinctures were the only usable option for perfumery... If not as an EO or as a tincture how is the resinoid prepared so as to make it usable since it's a solid?
    Justin E. Beasley

  28. #28
    Paul Kiler
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Well, the resinoid is completley soluble in alcohol, while the resin itself is not. But I'm not really sure about the technical preparation, I'd have to look it up myself.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  29. #29
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Well, the resinoid is completley soluble in alcohol, while the resin itself is not. But I'm not really sure about the technical preparation, I'd have to look it up myself.
    PK
    Oh, interesting, so it sounds as though it's an alcohol extraction where the solvent has been evaporated and it's sold as a solid. Is nematinternational.com a trustworthy vendor for such things? How about other things?
    Justin E. Beasley

  30. #30
    Paul Kiler
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I buy a lot of things from Nemat...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  31. #31
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    I buy a lot of things from Nemat...

    PK
    Good to know, thanks. The picture they show for the resinoid looks like the high grade hojary frankincense I have. I haven't tried to dissolve any in alcohol so I can't say how well it does or doesn't dissolve...
    Justin E. Beasley

  32. #32
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Thanks!

  33. #33
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    The Vanillin works nice.. A bit milky, but I guess I can balance that out later.. Is there
    a difference I should expect when using ethyl vanillin? (Don't have none yet).
    Habanolide - Hard to discern right now, will wait a few days, but it's a nicer musk
    than exaltolide in my opinion..
    Calamus - over-did it at 8%.. Will try to fix. Adds some oiliness/nuttiness..

  34. #34
    Basenotes Plus
    Chris Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    I eat propolis almost daily and I have experimented with tincture - my tinctures didn't turn out due to my handling and process so I have not used any of this material yet.

    Propolis can taste different depending on what kind of plants the bees are gathering from so if you have any control over your propolis source or type it might be a good idea to exercise it. I imagine that clover propolis will make a different smelling tincture than if you were to use buckwheat propolis... maybe the distributors blend all of the types together, I don't know, however propolis can taste different from batch to batch just like every other natural material. It's also interesting how different batches of propolis can look drastically different. I have had some batches that were all yellow, or all orange and then there are some that are yellow, orange, green and brown in the same package.
    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    Thank you for your answer, Chris.
    On the propolis, I recently saw some in my organic supermarket and thought of tincturing it! But I was unsure if it's worth it. Now I did a quick research and found lots of offers, ranging between 22Ä and 40Ä per 100g at beekeeper (five e's!) shops or under 15Ä at ebay. Raw propolis, powder or chunks. Or are you looking for something special?

    Regarding the honeycomb I have two varieties here. One is golden in colour, Cire d'Abeille (beeswax), and has this bold beeswax aroma; to me animalic, raw and warm. The other one, BrŤche d'Abeille (couldn't find a translation), is medium brown, does not need to be filtered and is very mild with delicate hints of cocoa and cinnamon.
    I will surely get some propolis and report :-) Thanks for sharing this!
    The stuff I smelt was still on the hive net and had been lifted from the hive by the beekeeper just before for purposes of a presentation to a group of perfumers. I suspect it may have had a particularly strong scent because it was so fresh. I understand that it is made by the bees from resins from local trees (not pollen) and is used to reinforce the structure of the hive and close gaps to help regulate the temperature. It is quite widely eaten as an allergy remedy as I understand it, though why this should work isnít clear to me.

    I tasted some and wasnít particularly taken with it - though it certainly wasnít unpleasant. The tincture idea has never quite made it to the top of the to-do-list but my thinking was that Iíd need to get it direct from a local apiarist to capture the depth of scent that I remember. Iím told the scent, texture and colour all vary significantly depending on the sources of resins that the bees in question have used, which would make sense.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  35. #35
    Basenotes Plus
    Chris Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    It seems quite hard to find this resinoid online from a supplier which ships to Israel for normal fees (I only found one).. Is using a tincture of the resin equivalent to the resinoid? Does myrrh resinoid also smell more like the incense (I like the incense, but can't stand the oil/co2)..
    I know Adam is looking at stocking this because he asked for my help in dealing with it: there are two problems with stocking it that have to be overcome, the first being the fact it is solid and has a high melting point so itís difficult to handle - that part I solved using IPM - a 50% solution is a slightly sticky but fully mobile liquid thatís easy to use and smells fantastic. That leaves problem number two which was the huge minimum order quantity and I think that remains an issue.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  36. #36
    Basenotes Plus
    Chris Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    The Vanillin works nice.. A bit milky, but I guess I can balance that out later.. Is there
    a difference I should expect when using ethyl vanillin? (Don't have none yet).
    Habanolide - Hard to discern right now, will wait a few days, but it's a nicer musk
    than exaltolide in my opinion..
    Calamus - over-did it at 8%.. Will try to fix. Adds some oiliness/nuttiness..
    Ethyl vanillin has a slightly more chocolaty nuance to it but is otherwise very similar - but keep in mind it is 5-10 times stronger so youíll need less.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  37. #37
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Thanks! He told me about the huge minimum order.. Sounds weird - who would be willing to buy this amount?! Probably it's only used in perfumes..
    I think I found some company in Latvia who sells small amounts of resinoids. They even have labdanum resinoids and two types or labdanum absolutes from Spain

    I think I'll try to build something with vanillin, habanolide and calamus now.. And maybe ebanol.. Yummy!

    - Update - my costausol was too concentrated and overwhelmed the blend. Now everybody loves it. Go figure-out people..
    Last edited by Nizan; 6th January 2014 at 07:03 PM.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    ...
    Habanolide - Hard to discern right now, will wait a few days, but it's a nicer musk
    than exaltolide in my opinion..
    I only know exaltolide. How would you describe the difference between them and why do you like habanolide better?

    P.S.: Would you mind sharing the source in Latvia?
    Last edited by Graphite; 6th January 2014 at 07:26 PM.

  39. #39
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Sure, I just thought of maybe waiting till I actually get something from them.. at this
    point I just asked for a quote on shipping and still waiting -

    http://aromata.lt/kvapai/en

    (I think it might be Lithuania..)

    I can try to give you my impression - where exaltolide kind of reminds
    me of a fresh white towel, with really fluffy knit (suggesting its powdery-ness),
    habanolide smells much more juicy and wild (it's not wild - just more
    wild), or should I say more animalic? Exaltolide is kind of sedating,
    and habanolide more arousing..
    In short - maybe someone else could describe the difference better,
    I'm a newbie

  40. #40

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Thank you!

    I get what you mean regarding the musks.

  41. #41
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    The stuff I smelt was still on the hive net and had been lifted from the hive by the beekeeper just before for purposes of a presentation to a group of perfumers. I suspect it may have had a particularly strong scent because it was so fresh. I understand that it is made by the bees from resins from local trees (not pollen) and is used to reinforce the structure of the hive and close gaps to help regulate the temperature. It is quite widely eaten as an allergy remedy as I understand it, though why this should work isn’t clear to me.
    I tasted some and wasn’t particularly taken with it - though it certainly wasn’t unpleasant. The tincture idea has never quite made it to the top of the to-do-list but my thinking was that I’d need to get it direct from a local apiarist to capture the depth of scent that I remember. I’m told the scent, texture and colour all vary significantly depending on the sources of resins that the bees in question have used, which would make sense.
    This is a propolis product I have never heard of, thank you for your description. I am aware of the pollen/propolis, honey, honeycomb and royal jelly products but the hive sealer resin is new to me, I'll definitely look into finding this product as it seems like an interesting material.

    When I tinctured my bee pollen I tinctured it in alcohol but I experimented with using an ultrasonic device to assist in the breakup of the pollen and quicken the tincturing process. The resultant tincture was highly phenolic and in fact smelled malty, burnt, quite a bit like electrical wiring, electricity, metalic, etc. Very strange and very strong. I tried different sonication times to test how this "aging" assist might work. The tincture that turned out the best had undergone one sonication period of 8 minutes at 42khz, the pollen solution was still pleasant and was slightly malty with floral aspects. The burnt tincture was made after three or four sonication periods of 8 minutes each. After my day of experimenting and ruining all of my samples (I never kept a control) I never went back and remade a tincture because the smell I got wasn't anything really different or beyond what I got from the honeycomb abs I have. I will definitely try pollen tincture again, this time using more conventional methods
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 6th January 2014 at 09:39 PM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  42. #42
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    It seems quite hard to find this resinoid online from a supplier which ships to Israel for normal fees (I only found one).. Is using a tincture of the resin equivalent to the resinoid? Does myrrh resinoid also smell more like the incense (I like the incense, but can't stand the oil/co2)..
    I detest the smell of myrhh oil in full strength, it's is such a green, malty, balsamic and overpowering smell I'm more keen on diluting it considerably before use. You might also look into guggul resin, it's similar to myrrh but is sweeter and not quite so intense or green. I have a chunk of guggul but haven't used it yet.
    Justin E. Beasley

  43. #43
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I share the sentiment.. even at 1% the drydown annoys me!
    I'll give it a whiff when I get some

  44. #44

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    ... I have a chunk of guggul but haven't used it yet.
    Give it a try and roast it. Yes, roasting, not burning. That's what I do with guggul and it smells wonderful.

  45. #45
    Basenotes Plus
    Chris Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    I detest the smell of myrhh oil in full strength, it's is such a green, malty, balsamic and overpowering smell I'm more keen on diluting it considerably before use. You might also look into guggul resin, it's similar to myrrh but is sweeter and not quite so intense or green. I have a chunk of guggul but haven't used it yet.
    You could also consider opoponax - it isnít called Ďsweet myrrhí for nothing . . .
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  46. #46
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    Give it a try and roast it. Yes, roasting, not burning. That's what I do with guggul and it smells wonderful.
    I will try that, thanks for the tip. Do you mean for perfumery purposes or as incense?
    Justin E. Beasley

  47. #47
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    You could also consider opoponax - it isn’t called ‘sweet myrrh’ for nothing . . .
    Sweet myrrh is nice, I have that material also and I do like it. I was not sure of it's connection to standard myrrh as I haven't used it much or looked into it really.
    Justin E. Beasley

  48. #48

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    I will try that, thanks for the tip. Do you mean for perfumery purposes or as incense?
    As incense.

  49. #49
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    As incense.
    Sounds good, how do you roast it without burning it? Potpourri burner? Digital hot-plate? Hahaha.
    Justin E. Beasley

  50. #50

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    deleted
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 9th January 2014 at 08:24 AM.

  51. #51
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    ?!?

  52. #52

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I continue to be confused about labdanum. I have cistus labdanum absolute which is virtually solid. I also have labdanum resinoid which smells slightly lemony or herbal but not particularly balsamic as I might have expected. The resinoid doesn't dissolve completely in alcohol but floats around as an oil within the tincture. Which should I use in which circumstances?

  53. #53
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    I thought that by definition resinoids are soluble in alcohol. Could be that you have the resin? I'm using the absolute, but it came pre-diluted, so no idea how solid it is. You could get even more confuse if you consider cistus absolute

  54. #54

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Oh, you're right. I have the resin. Is it of any use? Should I track down the resinoid?

  55. #55
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    You can burn it as incense.. Or maybe filter out the soluble part..

    For anyone who might be interested, I've also found vetrofix to be quite useful.. It helps bringing out that warm skin/leather aspect (though maybe it's too "old wood" for me..).

  56. #56

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    Sounds good, how do you roast it without burning it? Potpourri burner? Digital hot-plate? Hahaha.
    I take an old aroma lamp (those with tea lights) and replace the bowl by a small metal pot.


    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Oh, you're right. I have the resin. Is it of any use? Should I track down the resinoid?
    I made a 20% tincture with the resin and filtered it. It's lovely.

  57. #57
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Thanks for the tip
    Justin E. Beasley

  58. #58

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    You can burn it as incense.. Or maybe filter out the soluble part..

    For anyone who might be interested, I've also found vetrofix to be quite useful.. It helps bringing out that warm skin/leather aspect (though maybe it's too "old wood" for me..).
    Vertofix is an animal note, to some extent; and every animal note pretty much goes with every amber note.

  59. #59

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    It is quite widely eaten as an allergy remedy as I understand it, though why this should work isn’t clear to me. .
    Propolis will have traces of local pollens, if you buy locally, which makes it superior way to get microdoses of your actual allergens, to desensensitize your body. Allergy shot serum typically isn't made locally to patients. I believe that's the theory, same as the pollen.

  60. #60

    Default Re: Supporting labdanum as base note

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Propolis will have traces of local pollens, if you buy locally, which makes it superior way to get microdoses of your actual allergens, to desensensitize your body. Allergy shot serum typically isn't made locally to patients. I believe that's the theory, same as the pollen.
    Labdanum is a resin, and I had luck with the resinoid, IIRC. It needed melting and was alcohol soluble. In most of my readings the EO was called "cistus." But maybe few talk that way now. Loved that stuff.

Similar Threads

  1. Base note
    By sailim in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10th January 2014, 05:06 AM
  2. Base Note of Jasmine
    By hmazu in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20th November 2013, 03:37 PM
  3. SMN Nostalgia - What Is that Base Note?
    By adonis in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 13th July 2009, 06:38 AM
  4. Is labdanum a dark note?
    By smithmcgee32 in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 21st February 2007, 02:19 PM
  5. Base note, middle note, high note etc etc
    By lejaimlefunk in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 3rd January 2007, 04:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •