Re: List of 100 Aromachemicals

[lpp]

This is some info. from a previous thread, starting with Gido's post #1 from 3 June 13.
There is more to be uploaded.

Post #1 gido 3 June 13

This list is intended as a starting point for aspiring DIY-perfumers into the world of synthetic molecules.
There is a great suggestion from Chris to split the purchase into 4 parts. JEBeasley added descriptions for every material listed from TGSC, find out more about any of these molecules with this search engine. Julian35 compared the list to J.C. Ellena's list.

This is the final version:

Aldehyde C8
Aldehyde C10
Aldehyde C11
Aldehyde C12 lauric
Aldehyde C12 MNA
Aldehyde C14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde
Allyl Amyl Glycolate
Ambrettolide
Ambrocenide
Ambroxan (or other trade name)
Amyl Acetate
Amyl Salicylate
Anisaldehyde
Aurantiol
Benzaldehyde
Benzyl Acetate
Benzyl Salicylate
Calone
Cashmeran
Castoreum Replacement
Cedramber
Cinnamic Aldehyde
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cis Jasmone
Cis-3-Hexenol
Cis-3-Hexenyl Acetate
Citral
Citronellol
Civet Replacement
Coumarin
Cyclamen Aldehyde
Damascone alpha
Dihydromyrcenol
Dimetol
Ebanol
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Linalool
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Vanillin
Ethylene brassylate
Eugenol
Exaltolide
Farnesol
Fixateur 505
Floralozone
Florhydral
Galaxolide
Geraniol
Geranyl Acetate
Hedione
Helional
Heliotropin (or Veratraldehyde as replacement)
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde and/or Amyl Cinnamic Aldehyde
Hydroxycitronellal
Indole
Ionone Alpha
Ionone Beta
Iso Bornyl Acetate
Iso E Super
Kephalis
Lilial
Limonene
Linalool
Linalyl Acetate
Mandarin Aldehyde
Melonal
Methyl Anthranilate
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Ionone
Methyl Iso Eugenol and/or Methyl Diantilis (Iso Eugenol replacements)
Methyl Laitone
Methyl Pamplemousse
Musk Ketone
Nectarate
Nerol
Norlimbanol
Oranger Crystals
PADMA (Phenylacetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal)
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol
Phenylacetaldehyde
Raspberry Ketone
Rose Oxide
Safraleine
Sandela
Santaliff
Styrallyl Acetate
Terpineol Alpha
Tonalide
Triplal
Vanillin
Velvione
Veramoss
Vertenex
Vertofix
Vetiveryl Acetate

---- Original comment that lead in the first draft ----

I think it could be great have a list as sticky. Just the most basic and versatile ones.

I have merged Chris' (from gandhajala's post) list and David's suggestions, plus my own, and alphabetized them for ease of looking up.

Please add and subtract! Let's try to keep it trim. No naturals, please. Please think twice about bases, if it is an alternative to a readily available natural, it has essentially no place here in my opinion.
Restricted materials do have a place here. Banned ones do not.

Edited by gido - 9/10/13 at 7:21pm View History
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post #2 of 146 6/3/13 at 4:57pm
David Ruskin
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My additions in alphabetical order:-

Aldehyde C10
Aldehyde C12 lauric
Ambrocenide
Amyl Acetate
Damascone alpha
Ethyl Butyrate
Lilial
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Iso Eugenol
PADMA (Phenylacetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal)
Phenylacetaldehyde (50.0% in PEA)
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate
Tonalide

Some may say that some of these aren't basic enough; I would say that they are.
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post #3 of 146 6/3/13 at 10:37pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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Quote:
Some may say that some of these aren't basic enough; I would say that they are.

Yes, I am aware of that problem. And some perfumers might prefer V and Y over U, W and Z while they're used for more or less the same thing, which do you put in the list? To put them as a single line might solve things like V or U, you will need either one of them. I think if we all put our minds to it, add and edit things out, with arguments when necessary, this list could become of great value to novices and advanced beginners.

Thanks for your support.

Edited by gido - 6/4/13 at 2:44am View History
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post #4 of 146 6/4/13 at 12:02am
pickledtink
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As a bona fida Aroma chem Novice I'll stick my neck out: This is a great idea but a starting point of almost 100 is daunting.

When struggling and becoming wholly disheartened and confused CB kindly advised me to start with and explore Hedione and Iso E then build.

I now have and am tentatively using and still making mistakes but learning with probably about 20 in total from that list. Some I have as yet barely touched on at all.

With the greatest respect: if this is aimed at those in the early stages of working with Aroma chems the grouping and some ordering of these components would be very useful.
eg. Musks. If just one, which is the best all rounder?
Then in order which additional 2 would come next to make a Musk accord /base and briefly why? Light, rich, fruity, dry, velvety and so on.

So far Methyl & Gamma Alpha Ionone, Geraniol and Aurantiol for example I'm finding extremely forgiving and pretty much idiot proof.
If persons of far more knowledge than I could highlight one of each group as a starting point it would probably make for easier assimilation.
All this is of course out there both on the net and in books but if there's to be a ref' thread on here as a kind of primer it needs prioritisation.

I am a long way from being a Perfumer but as a Teacher/Trainer of more years than I care to mention regarding presentation of information, for what it's worth, that's my two pence.
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post #5 of 146 6/4/13 at 12:09am
pickledtink
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......and thanks Gido for coming up with this. Generous, thoughtful and potentially a real lifeline for Newbies and Elementary level alike.
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post #6 of 146 6/4/13 at 8:40am
David Ruskin
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Three more.
Aldehyde C 14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde

I quite understand the qualms raised by Pickledtink; faced with such a list from the beginning IS intimidating. It really depends what the list is going to be used for. As a reference of the basic materials I think it is justified. Perfumers have a palette of several thousand chemicals and oils to work with; and you have to start somewhere. My views of Perfumery education seem not to be too popular with some, the less patient, who want to get going makes perfumes. I have written many times now, that the first thing a beginner MUST do is learn the smells. It is vital to understand the odour and performance characteristics of the materials you are going to use. As chemicals are simpler in the way they behave it is better to start with them. Having this list, is the perfect reference to get going. It takes time, but is well worth the effort.

Possibley once the list has been finalised, we can start grouping them into smaller chunks.

Edited by David Ruskin - 6/4/13 at 10:06am View History
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post #7 of 146 6/4/13 at 2:37pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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That is the idea.

Ideally, it would be like language basics, the means to simply communicate what you need to say, perform like a solid foundation, act like a springboard without drowning the novice (by overkill).

Categorising them might be helpful, but I am not sure how. My best guess is by odour families. How do they do it at perfumery school? My own idea was to list something of a general purpose for each of them.

What do you think?
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post #8 of 146 6/4/13 at 3:30pm
mumsy
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The trouble with any categories is that they are in the opinion of the person ordering the list. I like the idea of a purpose in brackets after them or something.
It is impossible to know what someone might need in what order. A super master list. Thanks Gido.
If anything interests you in my collection. I'm happy to share samples if you are happy to bear the postage + costs.

Wardrobe link http://www.basenotes.net/lists/display/view/id/1716777 FB offers considered. Use PM to ask.
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post #9 of 146 6/4/13 at 5:18pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

The trouble with any categories is that they are in the opinion of the person ordering the list. I like the idea of a purpose in brackets after them or something.

That's true, at least for me it is. When looking up some categorising done by the masters, a few years ago, there were a few surprises for me!

I wonder if the big institutes have some sort of classification system or that this knowledge only exists in a more organic way, in the memories of the perfumers.
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post #10 of 146 6/4/13 at 5:25pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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I am hoping for more additions and subtractions by other members!

Here is the complete list so far,

Aldehyde C8
Aldehyde C10
Aldehyde C11
Aldehyde C12 lauric
Aldehyde C12 MNA
Aldehyde C14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde
Allyl Amyl Glycoate
Ambrettolide
Ambrocenide
Ambrofix or Ambroxan
Amyl Acetate
Amyl Salicylate,
Anisaldehyde
Aurantiol
Benzaldehyde
Benzyl Acetate
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Salicylate
Calone
Cashmeran
Castoreum Replacement
Cedramber
Cinnamic Aldehyde
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cis Jasmone
Cis-3-Hexenol
Citral
Citronellol
Civet Replacement
Coumarin
Cyclamen Aldehyde
Damascone alpha
Dihydromyrcenol
Dimetol
Ebanol
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Linalool
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Vanillin
Ethylene brassylate
Eugenol
Exaltolide
Farnesol
Fixateur 505
Floralozone
Florhydral
Galaxolide
Geraniol
Geranyl Acetate
Hedione
Helional
Heliotropin
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde
Hydroxycitronellal
Indole
Ionone Alpha
Ionone Beta
Iso Bornyl Acetate
Iso E Super
Kephalis
Lilial
Limonene
Linalool
Linalyl Acetate
Melonal
Methyl Anthranylate
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Ionone
Methyl Iso Eugenol and/or Methyl Diantilis
Methyl Laitone
Musk Ketone
Nectarate
Nerol
Norlimbanol
Orange Power
Orange Terpenes
Oranger Crystals
PADMA (Phenylacetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal)
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol
Phenylacetaldehyde (50.0% in PEA)
Rose Oxide
Safraleine
Santaliff
Terpineol Alpha
Tonalide
Vanillin
Velvione
Veramoss
Vertenex
Vertofix

Edited by gido - 6/29/13 at 2:43pm View History
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post #11 of 146 6/4/13 at 6:39pm
DrSmellThis
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Not the authority, but wondering about methyl laitone, ethyl vanillin, iso eugenol, leaf alcohol, habanolide, and methyl diantilis? The only claim here is subjectively seeing them pop up often, not any actual sense of their use. Vetiver acetate probably doesn't belong, but that one does pop up too. Please ignore these to the extent they are incorrect.
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post #12 of 146 6/4/13 at 7:22pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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I thought that Methyl Laitone was on the list, but apparently isn't, I will add it. Ethyl Vanillin and Leaf alcohol are on the list. I have been thinking about Iso Eugenol (I love that stuff) and you suggest Methyl Diantilis as well. But we already have Eugenol and Methyl Iso Eugenol. Those four are far to close to one another to have them all. Which of these are the most essential? I would have selected Eugenol and Iso Eugenol myself but Eugenol and a less restricted one might be better. I would like to hear opinions on this.

I cannot judge Habanolide since I do not have it. What about Muscone or even some musk tonkin base?
And what about Fixateur 505? It's a very different and valuable approach to Ambergris than Ambroxan.


Edited by gido - 6/4/13 at 7:35pm View History
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post #13 of 146 6/4/13 at 7:33pm
gandhajala
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Cashmeran ?
Too much of a good thing can make you wonderful ~ Mae West
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post #14 of 146 6/5/13 at 8:48am
Chris Bartlett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gido View Post

I thought that Methyl Laitone was on the list, but apparently isn't, I will add it. Ethyl Vanillin and Leaf alcohol are on the list. I have been thinking about Iso Eugenol (I love that stuff) and you suggest Methyl Diantilis as well. But we already have Eugenol and Methyl Iso Eugenol. Those four are far to close to one another to have them all. Which of these are the most essential? I would have selected Eugenol and Iso Eugenol myself but Eugenol and a less restricted one might be better. I would like to hear opinions on this.

I cannot judge Habanolide since I do not have it. What about Muscone or even some musk tonkin base?
And what about Fixateur 505? It's a very different and valuable approach to Ambergris than Ambroxan.

It's a difficult problem. Personally I would certainly include Methyl Diantilis as a very widely used synthetic with the great advantage of not being restricted. The restriction on iso Eugenol is tight.

With Habanolide the real question is what musks do you include - there are very many of them - some important from a modern perfumery point of view such as Exaltolide, Velvione and Ambrettolide, others more from a historical perspective such as the nitro musks. Galaxolide is between these two positions: still very widely used but coming under increasing pressure from the environmental impact lobby. If we are talking essentials then you certainly don't need all of the musks or even most of them. Muscone there is a good case to include; Exaltone and other more expensive musks like Cosmone, certainly are used but I wouldn't recommend them for anyone starting out simply on cost grounds.

Cashmeran is very popular - with hindsight I should probably have included it in my original set - it can be argued that it is or isn't a musk, but I think it belongs on the list however you categorise it.

Fixateur 505 is certainly an essential - but it is a base - and you've said you want to exclude bases. My original set included some, such as Cassis Base and Civet, more as illustrations than anything: perhaps a separate list of industry-standard bases would be useful?

Final thought: I included in my original set some materials as illustrations of the range of possibilities - a good example is Fructalate - lovely stuff and quite unique but probably does not qualify as an essential. Undecavertol is in the same category: interesting certainly, but perhaps not an essential.



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Also on the Pell Wall blog and the Yahoo Perfume Making. I'm sometimes slow at answering PMs here. If you are looking for a private perfumery consultant I'm happy to quote. For for free help: it's what these forums are for happy.gif
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post #15 of 146 6/5/13 at 8:58am
David Ruskin
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Classification of odours is a difficult one. We used to classify every Raw Material (Natural and Synthetic) with a three word descriptor (e.g. Green, Floral, Rose) which was often very useful. It is also possible to classify by end use; what sort of smell would you use this material to make, but that can be restricting rather than useful. Just because someone says that substance X is used to make , for example, Woody accords, there is no reason not to use it when making a Rose. Very subjective, indeed.

I chose Methyl Iso Eugenol over Methyl Diantilis because the latter is a speciality sold by one company and is much more expensive than the former.
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post #16 of 146 6/5/13 at 3:01pm
DuNezDeBuzier
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Excellent idea!

I'd be interested to see what dilution ranges have worked with each as well. That was my biggest error made when starting out... I killed so many mixes with too much Dimethyl Pyrazine, for just one example.

Edited by DuNezDeBuzier - 6/5/13 at 3:33pm View History
Simplex Sigillum Veri
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post #17 of 146 6/5/13 at 9:47pm
David Ruskin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post

Excellent idea!

I'd be interested to see what dilution ranges have worked with each as well. That was my biggest error made when starting out... I killed so many mixes with too much Dimethyl Pyrazine, for just one example.
If you had smelled the individual materials and got to know them I doubt if you would have made the same mistakes. Simply by smelling Dimethyl Pyrazine you must have realised just how strong it was.
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post #18 of 146 6/5/13 at 10:49pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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I haven't got much time right now, thanks again for all the help. I am processing your replies. Chris, glad you're on board.

I've reconsidered the bases. Only compositions that replaced something practically unobtainable were allowed, and I had included all animalic replacements. But I think it might be better to allow all bases that take precedence over their corresponding natural (as most bases are inspired by and usually try to copy nature.) Abstract bases should then be allowed too.

So, if the base is deemed more important and more commonly used than the natural, if it's an essential material, by all means, include it. We could split the list in two sections, one for single molecules and on for bases.

I hope this makes sense. :-}
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post #19 of 146 6/5/13 at 11:01pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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David,

About the Classification. When I said 'purpose' I guess I didn't mean it that way. What I miss sometimes when I look up materials, is something about their effect. What do they do? Instead of what accord are they used for. That latter part definitely does not belong on this list. It's scope is far to big and will always be incomplete, and can be restricting as you have mentioned.

On the other hand, it's great fun to experiment and find out for yourself. But I do think some basic pointers in this respect could help us home students. Or am I missing something and is there some good reason behind it all, not to list this?

Adding a few descriptors might be useful and is more flexible than categorising everything into families. I will start on that when I have a bit more time on my hands again.
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post #20 of 146 6/5/13 at 11:06pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post

Final thought: I included in my original set some materials as illustrations of the range of possibilities - a good example is Fructalate - lovely stuff and quite unique but probably does not qualify as an essential. Undecavertol is in the same category: interesting certainly, but perhaps not an essential.

I do not really know these and I will remove them. Thanks! Anything else that can go?
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post #21 of 146 6/5/13 at 11:14pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post

Excellent idea!

I'd be interested to see what dilution ranges have worked with each as well. That was my biggest error made when starting out... I killed so many mixes with too much Dimethyl Pyrazine, for just one example.

I've updated the last list.
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post #22 of 146 6/5/13 at 11:23pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
I'd be interested to see what dilution ranges have worked with each as well. That was my biggest error made when starting out... I killed so many mixes with too much Dimethyl Pyrazine, for just one example.

While I strongly agree with David that a perfumer should study any material at all times before using it, I do think it might be useful for the novice to have suggestions at what strength the materials could be studied. This would also give a idea about the supply you need, and it does matter to the cost.

Mm. I am still on the fence about this.
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post #23 of 146 6/6/13 at 8:53am
David Ruskin
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If you include all of the Bases that Perfumers think are essential, I think you will need a separate list. How any Rose bases, for example, are used that, whilst they smell "rose like" each have their own unique take on that odour group? A Base, by its very nature, is a mix of materials (a bit like an Essential Oil); is there a place for complex mixtures in a list of Aroma Chemicals?
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post #24 of 146 6/6/13 at 11:35am THREAD STARTER
gido
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Ok, back to the original idea, then. Or should I even get rid of the bases that are in there now? In that case I feel we really must go on and compile a separate list with bases. Which is the best option, but do you guys want to make the effort? My own input would be small, I am not familiar with many bases, so I will leave it up to you.
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post #25 of 146 6/6/13 at 12:05pm
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On dilution:

Goodscents offers a suggested dilution under the organoleptics section, but that isn't really refined to the needs of the working perfumer, and I've seen it both overestimate and underestimate the most usable dilutions, just IMHO.

What I would like to see is a list of "minimum suggested dilutions", made by people who have spent time with the stuff.

On one hand, there are those like David (apparently) and myself who like to use things neat or at some "fuller strength". And then there are those who dilute straight sandalwood to 10%. Chris like to use laitone at 1%, whereas the PA people like it at 10%.

I'm used to smelling it and then using my imagination for the diluted smell. I like being handicapped by the strength of the smell, as I get information from that that I am used to having, to be more precise. For example, the ugliness of the vetiver, patchouli combo seems to be helping me understand it -- that difficulty that would otherwise not be a challenge. I don't need to enjoy a smell to create with it, just to find it interesting. Enjoyment is for the consumer. Strangely enough, I have this fear that if I let myself dilute to enjoyable levels, I will be seduced into thinking it's good when it's not.

Could one make an equally or more compelling case for diluting to user strength? Sure. I think people just get used to something.

Cost concerns are probably going to force me to at least do some work with everything maximally diluted, though. I will have to adjust. DPG/ethanol will become my new friend. Otherwise one might not have the funds to complete R & D, much less make actual products.

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post #26 of 146 6/6/13 at 4:55pm
David Ruskin
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gido, please do not take any notice of what I think if you disagree; it was your idea in the first place to have this list, so you can have whatever you want in it.
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post #27 of 146 6/6/13 at 7:35pm THREAD STARTER
gido
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Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
gido, please do not take any notice of what I think if you disagree; it was your idea in the first place to have this list, so you can have whatever you want in it.

No, I do not disagree. I am just trying to figure what's the most sensible thing to do. I think that separate is probably the best, but I do think that this begs for another list. Let's try to finish this one first. I will run it through the perfume making group to see if there's anything important that we have overlooked, and then start on the descriptors.
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post #28 of 146 6/6/13 at 10:56pm
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If you know that a base is available to ordinary people from the usual sources, do include it. After all, this is supposed to be helpful to the first buyer or to the ones who have made a first purchase of what they thought it was essential at the time, and they are now looking for more chemicals to add to their arsenal.
Therefore, bases like "Fixateur 505" and "Dorinia" in my opinion should be included. From musks I'd say those three as a minimum: galaxolide (beautiful, works with everything-everywhere), ambettolide (unique "Chanel"- like refinement contribution) , habanolide (modern and straightforward with a punch).


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post #29 of 146 6/7/13 at 11:36pm
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"Exaltone and other more expensive musks like Cosmone, certainly are used but I wouldn't recommend them for anyone starting out simply on cost grounds."

The problem I have with exaltone is I have attempted to find it any number of times without success. Hard for something to be basic if it is unavailable.

BTW, with exaltone, I think you had to order 30 kilos or something similar. Is there even a supplier that sells in small quantities? If there is, somebody needs to tell Google. I'd be using it if I could find it. Any leads, anyone?
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post #30 of 146 6/8/13 at 5:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gido View Post

I haven't got much time right now, thanks again for all the help. I am processing your replies. Chris, glad you're on board.

I've reconsidered the bases. Only compositions that replaced something practically unobtainable were allowed, and I had included all animalic replacements. But I think it might be better to allow all bases that take precedence over their corresponding natural (as most bases are inspired by and usually try to copy nature.) Abstract bases should then be allowed too.

So, if the base is deemed more important and more commonly used than the natural, if it's an essential material, by all means, include it. We could split the list in two sections, one for single molecules and on for bases.

I hope this makes sense. :-}

This idea makes sense. That sounds very interesting as well.
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post #31 of 146 6/11/13 at 8:10pm
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Looks like a very valuable idea Gido - thank you.
Splitting does seem a good idea.

Someone seems to be doing something fairly general regarding ingredients on Wikipedia, but I don't know how long it's been there and it looks like a work in progress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...me_ingredients
...
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post #32 of 146 6/11/13 at 11:41pm
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I'd have to talk with Vigon about the price, But I'm pretty sure I could get Exaltone there.

As for Exaltenone at Vigon:
Pack Size 1 Kg
Price / Kg $2200.00



Paul Kiler
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post #33 of 146 6/12/13 at 8:54am
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Paul that is scandalously expensive! IPP, the list on Wikipedia is nowhere near complete.
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post #34 of 146 6/12/13 at 8:58am
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Yes David, REALLY expensive... might be a better deal elsewhere...



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post #35 of 146 6/21/13 at 2:19am
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Dear Management.
Why is this not a Sticky?

My poor trembling fingers are losing strength trawling about wondering where this thread is in the daily cut and thrust of BN FDIY. I put Banana in a Honeysuckle accord the other day because I was so exhausted with missing this very important and useful thread on the first page , scrutinising the second to the point of impending blindness, getting distracted by something interesting on page three then hours later finding it was actually on page one after all.

Yes I know I can subscribe to it and indeed I have but it is a slow business.
Fortunately Banana in Honeysuckle is surprisingly nice so all is not lost.

Love and kisses PT.
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post #36 of 146 6/21/13 at 7:03am
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I think that this is still a discussion, one that needs more resolution, then reposting succinctly, with a link to this thread, THAT could make good sticky...



Paul Kiler
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post #37 of 146 6/21/13 at 11:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkiler View Post

I think that this is still a discussion, one that needs more resolution, then reposting succinctly, with a link to this thread, THAT could make good sticky...

As the last post was yours over a week ago it's looking rather as if it's settled and in danger of drifting down the pages.
That's my concern. Too much went into this for it to end up lost amongst old posts.
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post #38 of 146 6/22/13 at 1:27am
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As a new member of Basenotes and knowing the importance of this thread...

How about breaking down the list via being affordable
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post #39 of 146 6/22/13 at 1:15pm THREAD STARTER
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I am far from finished with this. Unfortunately, I just did not have the time to do it.

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post #40 of 146 6/22/13 at 11:20pm
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It's much appreciated Gido.
I know I'm finding it very helpful.
So we can just give it a little:

*Bump*


:-)
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post #41 of 146 6/22/13 at 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windswept View Post

As a new member of Basenotes and knowing the importance of this thread...

How about breaking down the list via being affordable

To a certain extent that's going to depend upon which country you're in and what is available.
As soon as you get into International shipping and tax charges it becomes a whole different matter.

Probably something everyone has to explore for themselves but there's plenty of information on the board to discover sources close to you and pore over their supplies and prices.
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post #42 of 146 6/23/13 at 3:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post

"Exaltone and other more expensive musks like Cosmone, certainly are used but I wouldn't recommend them for anyone starting out simply on cost grounds."

The problem I have with exaltone is I have attempted to find it any number of times without success. Hard for something to be basic if it is unavailable.

BTW, with exaltone, I think you had to order 30 kilos or something similar. Is there even a supplier that sells in small quantities? If there is, somebody needs to tell Google. I'd be using it if I could find it. Any leads, anyone?

I have a source for Exaltone in the UK - horribly expensive but it is available and you don't have to buy 30Kg - drop me a PM or email if you'd like to discuss.



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post #43 of 146 6/23/13 at 6:31pm
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For exaltone Javiero can also help you out. PM him.

Edited by gecko214 - 6/27/13 at 10:22am View History
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post #44 of 146 6/23/13 at 11:57pm
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Thanks, Chris.

Seems a lot of emphasis has been placed on finding new, cheaper ways to synthsize it.

Edited by DrSmellThis - 6/24/13 at 12:37am View History
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post #45 of 146 6/24/13 at 12:38am
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Thanks, gecko.

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post #46 of 146 7/1/13 at 10:19am THREAD STARTER
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Alright, Here is the proposal. First version of the final list. I feel descriptors should be added next, checked by you guys, and then it can be published. What do you think?

Aldehyde C10
Aldehyde C11
Aldehyde C12 lauric
Aldehyde C12 MNA
Aldehyde C14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde
Aldehyde C8
Allyl Amyl Glycoate
Ambrettolide
Ambrocenide
Ambrofix or Ambroxan
Amyl Acetate
Amyl Salicylate
Anisaldehyde
Aurantiol
Benzaldehyde
Benzyl Acetate
Benzyl Salicylate
Calone
Cashmeran
Castoreum Replacement
Cedramber
Cinnamic Aldehyde
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cis Jasmone
Cis-3-Hexenol
Cis-3-Hexenyl Acetate
Citral
Citronellol
Civet Replacement
Coumarin
Cyclamen Aldehyde
Damascone alpha
Dihydromyrcenol
Dimetol
Ebanol
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Linalool
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Vanillin
Ethylene brassylate
Eugenol
Exaltolide
Farnesol
Fixateur 505
Floralozone
Florhydral
Galaxolide
Geraniol
Geranyl Acetate
Hedione
Helional
Heliotropin (or Veratraldehyde as replacement)
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde
Hydroxycitronellal
Indole
Ionone Alpha
Ionone Beta
Iso Bornyl Acetate
Iso E Super
Kephalis
Lilial
Limonene
Linalool
Linalyl Acetate
Mandarin Aldehyde
Melonal
Methyl Anthranylate
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Ionone
Methyl Iso Eugenol and/or Methyl Diantilis
Methyl Laitone
Methyl Pamplemousse
Musk Ketone
Nectarate
Nerol
Norlimbanol
Orange Power
Orange Terpenes
Oranger Crystals
PADMA (Phenylacetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal)
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol
Phenylacetaldehyde (50.0% in PEA)
Raspberry Ketone
Rose Oxide
Safraleine
Sandela
Santaliff
Styrallyl Acetate
Terpineol Alpha
Tonalide
Triplal
Vanillin
Velvione
Veramoss
Vertenex
Vertofix

Edited by gido - 7/1/13 at 10:56am View History
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post #47 of 146 7/1/13 at 10:33am THREAD STARTER
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What do you know? It's exactly 100 entries long! If this were a book the publisher would be very happy.


[edit] Detected a duplicate. 99 entries. We can boast we kept it under the 100 now. ;D

Edited by gido - 7/1/13 at 11:25am View History
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post #48 of 146 7/1/13 at 4:45pm
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Glad you caught the 2 dupes...

Pretty good list, Even I don't have all of them,,,



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post #49 of 146 7/1/13 at 7:40pm THREAD STARTER
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Me neither. It has been a learning experience for me too. I would have loved to have a list like this when I started out, and I'm happy to have it now. I really hope it will get some good use by many.

By the way, David was suggesting an intermediate's list for later. That's a great idea, but definitely beyond my scope. If anyone wants to pick that up and have a go, please do so.

Another thing that I am thinking of, is a sticky about solvents. We get so many questions about that. But first I've got to finish this one. Lots of work, still.

Who makes thread sticky in these parts anyway? I anyone with that ability reading this thread? (Please do not make this one sticky, I will start another one.) I think the sticky threads can be cleaned up a bit, too. Great stuff there but also a couple that can go if you ask me.
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post #50 of 146 7/1/13 at 7:45pm
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Methyl salicylate I don't see on the list (and maybe ethyl salicylate). Important for tuberose accords (and very pronounced in my KOUROS deodorant stick I used this morning BTW).



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post #51 of 146 7/2/13 at 9:32am
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It will be impossible to please everyone, and it is a guarantee that something will be left off that is someone's favourite material. It is supposed to be a starting list for beginners, and I think it covers all of the most necessary synthetics. Methyl Salicylate has its uses but I don't think it that vital for a beginner to have. MAy I add my congratulations to gido for doing this.

Edited by David Ruskin - 7/2/13 at 7:16pm View History
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post #52 of 146 7/2/13 at 6:02pm
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Well done, Gido.
I imagine that Admin would be able to 'sticky' threads more easily once the Test Site status has changed (i.e., on completion).
It might also be a good time to edit or replace existing ones.
...
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post #53 of 146 7/2/13 at 7:10pm
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Given that I'm about to order a bunch of new AC's, this is beyond helpful!
✮✮ NEW SPLIT ✮✮: New splits coming soon.
Split Closed! Whatever will be next?
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post #54 of 146 7/2/13 at 11:15pm
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Thank you very much Gido for creating this important list. I have already used it and placed an order last week with the Perfumers Apprentice for:

Cedramber
Cinnamic Aldehyde
Dihydromyrcenol
Dimetol
Ebanol
Floralozone
Helional
Iso E Super
Kephalis
Melonal
Methyl Benzoate
Norlimbanol
Orange Terpenes
Safraleine
Velvione

I added Cosmone and Pyralone to the order.

Over the next few months I look forward to getting many more essentials from your list.
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post #55 of 146 7/3/13 at 12:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

It will be impossible to please everyone, and it is a guarantee that something will be left off that is someone's favourite material. It is supposed to be a starting list for beginners, and I think it covers all of the most necessary synthetics. Methyl Salicylate has its uses but I don't think it that vital for a beginner to have. MAy I add my congratulations to gido for doing this.
With all the respect David but with all these aldehydes and musks on the list there should be a place for something so unique in odour and useful (I can think of at least two massive hits that had it in abundance) like methyl salicylate. This is my opinion at least.
I double Gido's effort!


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post #56 of 146 7/3/13 at 5:28pm
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So try and persuade gido to swap one Aldehyde for Methyl Salicylate
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post #57 of 146 7/5/13 at 5:48pm
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If you wanted to do that my choice to drop would be C8, which I don't find much use for personally. BTW it's interesting to note that the list has nearly doubled in size from the kit I originally put together: and the most frequent request I've had from people thinking of buying it is to reduce it because otherwise it's too expensive.

That's something I plan to do and we might add value to this list by giving these a priority number from, say 1-4, so that you can more easily prioritise what you buy when you're starting out. So the aim would be 25 in each group: a more reasonable order size for most people.

Final thought - at the other end of the spectrum, doing this has made me wonder what peoples big wish-list items would be - those things you'd love to be able to have in your palette but can't buy anywhere in a sensible quantity. I think perhaps I'll start that as another thread though otherwise we'll send this one off track.

*Edit: I did and the wish list thread is here*



Chris Bartlett
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post #58 of 146 7/5/13 at 6:13pm
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This is my first-cut suggestion for splitting it out into four successive orders:



1st order 2nd order 3rd order 4th order
Aldehyde C10 1
Aldehyde C11 1
Aldehyde C12 lauric 1
Aldehyde C12 MNA 1
Aldehyde C14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde 1
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde 1
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde 1
Aldehyde C8 1
Allyl Amyl Glycoate 1
Ambrettolide 1
Ambrocenide 1
Ambrofix or Ambroxan 1
Amyl Acetate 1
Amyl Salicylate 1
Anisaldehyde 1
Aurantiol 1
Benzaldehyde 1
Benzyl Acetate 1
Benzyl Salicylate 1
Calone 1
Cashmeran 1
Castoreum Replacement 1
Cedramber 1
Cinnamic Aldehyde 1
Cinnamyl Alcohol 1
Cis Jasmone 1
Cis-3-Hexenol 1
Cis-3-Hexenyl Acetate 1
Citral 1
Citronellol 1
Civet Replacement 1
Coumarin 1
Cyclamen Aldehyde 1
Damascone alpha 1
Dihydromyrcenol 1
Dimetol 1
Ebanol 1
Ethyl Butyrate 1
Ethyl Linalool 1
Ethyl Maltol 1
Ethyl Vanillin 1
Ethylene brassylate 1
Eugenol 1
Exaltolide 1
Farnesol 1
Fixateur 505 1
Floralozone 1
Florhydral 1
Galaxolide 1
Geraniol 1
Geranyl Acetate 1
Hedione 1
Helional 1
Heliotropin (or Veratraldehyde as replacement) 1
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde 1
Hydroxycitronellal 1
Indole 1
Ionone Alpha 1
Ionone Beta 1
Iso Bornyl Acetate 1
Iso E Super 1
Kephalis 1
Lilial 1
Limonene 1
Linalool 1
Linalyl Acetate 1
Mandarin Aldehyde 1
Melonal 1
Methyl Anthranylate 1
Methyl Benzoate 1
Methyl Ionone 1
Methyl Iso Eugenol and/or Methyl Diantilis 1
Methyl Laitone 1
Methyl Pamplemousse 1
Methyl salicylate 1
Musk Ketone 1
Nectarate 1
Nerol 1
Norlimbanol 1
Orange Power 1
Orange Terpenes 1
Oranger Crystals 1
PADMA (Phenylacetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal) 1
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate 1
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol 1
Phenylacetaldehyde (50.0% in PEA) 1
Raspberry Ketone 1
Rose Oxide 1
Safraleine 1
Sandela 1
Santaliff 1
Styrallyl Acetate 1
Terpineol Alpha 1
Tonalide 1
Triplal 1
Vanillin 1
Velvione 1
Veramoss 1
Vertenex 1
Vertofix 1
25 25 25 25



Chris Bartlett
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Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
Also on the Pell Wall blog and the Yahoo Perfume Making. I'm sometimes slow at answering PMs here. If you are looking for a private perfumery consultant I'm happy to quote. For for free help: it's what these forums are for happy.gif
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post #59 of 146 7/5/13 at 7:37pm
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Again, I must express much appreciation for all involved in the creation of this list (and those who have helped out along the way). Even the minor dissension of the final cut was helpful as Ion's suggestions seemed quite appealing. I ended up ordering about 75 materials from PA and plan on holing up for some time while trying to get to know them and their strengths.

I did cut out many of the floral / fruit type notes -- which seems like it would drastically reduce my palate -- but I've got some specific ideas in mind for what I want to aim for upfront. Now, onto the naturals!
✮✮ NEW SPLIT ✮✮: New splits coming soon.
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post #60 of 146 7/6/13 at 8:17pm
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Yes, C8 would be my choice as well along with Musk Ketone which isn't of much use nowadays (read fast: no mttear how mcuh we all lkie it). :-)


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Edit- add link:-
n.b. - I have the split from post #58 so will try to edit it...

[lpp]

Hope this works - please advise if it doesn't!

Page 2

Page 3

[lpp]

I've posted this thread pending the return of the 'new' , replacement sticky (A list of the most essential aroma chemicals in fine fragrance) from Huddler.

[Rowannicus]

Thank you for this fantastic list!

I am finally embarking on a journey into aroma chemicals after a few preliminary experiments and I am eternally grateful for the wisdom and expertise of the Basenotes community.

[Chris Bartlett]

Hope this works - please advise if it doesn't!

Page 2

Page 3

These are not currently working (they go to a disabled dropbox location).

[Chris Bartlett]

These are, I believe, the final list of 100 along with my suggestions for breaking them up into four equal sized orders of 25 ACs (with those for the first order in bold).

Red coloured items are worth buying in a slightly larger quantity because they tend to be used often or in larger amounts. The two in orange are worth buying plenty of because they are the most frequently and heavily used of all.

100 Essential Aroma Chemicals

Aldehyde C10 3
Aldehyde C11 2
Aldehyde C12 lauric 2
Aldehyde C12 MNA 2
Aldehyde C14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde 2
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde 2
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde 2
Aldehyde C8 4
Allyl Amyl Glycolate 4
Ambrettolide 3
Ambrocenide / Ambermax 50 4
Ambrofix or Ambroxan 1
Amyl Acetate 4
Amyl Salicylate 2
Anisaldehyde 2
Aurantiol 1
Benzaldehyde 3
Benzyl Acetate 3
Benzyl Salicylate 1
Calone 1
Cashmeran 2
Castoreum Replacement 1% 1
Cedramber 1
Cinnamic Aldehyde 2
Cinnamyl Alcohol 4
Cis Jasmone 3
Cis-3-Hexenol 3
Cis-3-Hexenyl Acetate 2
Citral 4
Citronellol 4
Civet Replacement 0.1% 1
Coumarin 2
Cyclamen Aldehyde 2
Damascone alpha 3
Dihydromyrcenol 1
Dimetol 3
Ebanol 1
Ethyl Butyrate 3
Ethyl Linalool 3
Ethyl Maltol 2
Ethyl Vanillin 4
Ethylene brassylate 1
Eugenol 4
Exaltolide 1
Farnesol 4
Fixateur 505 3
Floralozone 1
Florhydral 2
Galaxolide 50 1
Geraniol 4
Geranyl Acetate 1
Hedione 1
Helional 2
Heliotropin (or Veratraldehyde as replacement) 3
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde 2
Hydroxycitronellal 1
Indole (10%) 3
Ionone Alpha 1
Ionone Beta 4
Iso Bornyl Acetate 4
Iso E Super 1
Kephalis 4
Lilial 2
Linalool 4
Linalyl Acetate 1
Mandarin Aldehyde 3
Melonal 3
Methyl anthranilate 2
Methyl Benzoate 4
Methyl Ionone 1
Methyl Iso Eugenol and/or Methyl Diantilis 3
Methyl Laitone 2
Methyl Pamplemousse 4
Methyl salicylate 4
Musk Ketone 4
Nectarate 2
Nerol 3
Norlimbanol 4
Orange Power 4
Orange Terpenes / d-limonene 4
Oranger Crystals 3
PADMA (Phenylacetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal) 3
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate 3
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol 1
Phenylacetaldehyde (50.0% in PEA) 3
Raspberry Ketone (10%) 3
Rose Oxide 3
Safraleine 2
Sandela 1
Santaliff 2
Styrallyl Acetate 4
Terpineol Alpha 4
Tonalide 20% 3
Triplal 4
Vanillin 1
Velvione 2
Veramoss 1
Vertenex 3
Vertofix 2
Vetiveryl acetate 1


You can, most of the time at least, buy every single one of those from my own stock on the Pell Wall website, where we’re now also offering them as a set of five kits designed to be bought in order, each containing 20 of the materials.

[diktat]

can any aromachemicals be dissolved in oils like fractionated coconut oil?

[Bill Roberts]

Most will dissolve at for example at least 10%, but some less than this (for example musk ketone), and some more than this (most or all of the liquid ones.)

[schneich]

Hi,

i am a total newbie on making perfume. recently i bought myself the 100 aromachemicals recommended in this thread. since i dont know any of these molecules i needed to bring some sense into the list in terms on what odor these materials have, whats the CAS number and a few other Information like the odor group and strength. so i made myself an excel sheet to have all the info in one place. i have also included three columns for head, heart and base, but my inputs here were only guesswork. i would appreciate if some "seasoned" perfumers here would correct the information... :-)

otherwise i hope this could be helpful to other newbies...



cheers from cologne... ;-)


Torsten Schoeneich

[David Ruskin]

The way to find out if an ingredient is a Top note, Middle note or Base note, is to do it yourself. Dip an ingredient on a smelling strip. Smell it and try to describe, in your own words, the smell. It don't matter how stupid your description is, it will be yours and you will remember it. Keep smelling, every 30 minutes for a couple of hours, then every hour or so, then every day, until you can no longer smell anything. Some ingredients will only last a few minutes, some will last for a few hours, and some will last for days, if not weeks. Top, MIddle and Base describe the volatility of a material, and how long they take to evaporate. Guess work should never enter into it. Ditto strength. Dip and smell. How strong do you find it?

Perfumery is about doing it yourself, and asking as few questions as necessary. You learn by doing.

[schneich]

i think i got this already, you guys are writing it on every second posting. what i tried to do is just to get myself some kind of "map"

[David Ruskin]

Well go ahead then; have fun.

[Bill Roberts]

I think you will find that written descriptions do not help so much when it comes to materials you already have. The material itself will tell you more than nearly any written description will.

Where the descriptions are useful is mostly in deciding what materials to consider buying (and even then, very often the description will prove not so much of a help.)

An exception can be in very particular things other than whether something is consider top, middle or base, or whether it's floral or musk or what have you. For example you might encounter information on the forum that Javanol is both very powerful, and very able to yield nose fatigue where it seems to you it is doing very little. And you might enounter information that typical use is say only 3 parts per thousand in a formulation, or 5 parts, something like that. That information could cause you to correct an error of using far more, which might have happened because you were getting nose fatigue immediately on opening the bottle.

It's worth doing a forum search on any ingredient you are using, and searching example formulations and other information on TGSC, and information from the manufacturer (if available) on typical use. Not because every ingredient should always be used at a typical amount, but because if your amount is atypical, then it's worth giving extra consideration of whether your amount really does work or may be a mistake.

But, on the same example, if there's a list of 100 aromachemicals, if Javanol were in it, and comments are asked, it's unlikely, just because it would be too hard to come up with everything, that anyone would necessarily jump in with that note about Javanol. It takes searching on the ingredients.

[rickbr]

I have a doubt: how much of each material should I purchase? I have the solely intention to use them to learn and develop fragrances for me, but since i'll order them overseas (most of them are much more expensive here in Brasil), i would like to be sure that i'm not purchasing to little of things that are heavily used.

[Graphite]

Depends entirely on your blending style, taste and pace. I once bought 10 g indole that will last me as a lifetime supply, I guess.
I assume you are doing some research on the materials you want to buy and you come across TGSC. A good indication might be the stated odour strength as well as the recommended amount used in the perfume concentrate.
I personally would rather buy 5 g than 15 g to start with. Even though it's often tempting because of the relatively lower price when buying bigger amounts.

[Chris Bartlett]

I have a doubt: how much of each material should I purchase? I have the solely intention to use them to learn and develop fragrances for me, but since i'll order them overseas (most of them are much more expensive here in Brasil), i would like to be sure that i'm not purchasing to little of things that are heavily used.

I’ve just gone through my post #6 listing them all out to add colour coding in red and orange to those I think you’ll find it worthwhile to buy more of.

[Srishti]

I am not acquainted with these names. All I know bergamot, vetiver, lime, fennel etc and that's how I have searched for to buy the essential oil?
Please help what are these name?
I am scared a little.

[Nasenmann]

The bergamot, vetiver, lime, fennel you know are (most likely) natural essential oils or absolutes. The names on this list are an assortment of synthetic aroma chemicals or isolates that are also commonly used as perfumery ingredients, just like the naturals. The vast majority of fragrances on the market use at least one or more synthetic ingredient.

Many synthetics don't smell quite as complex/rich as many naturals do but they often bring their own set of uniqe qualities and novelties to the table, wether it be in terms of smell, price or in how they interact with other ingredients (like boosting their strength or prolonging their lifespan for example).

It is daunting for a beginner to see lists of all those materials that people consider important but creating fragrances is all about patience and continuous learning. If you like doing it, just broaden your palette slowly, step by step. Chris Bartlett's list gives you a good orientation for where to start.

[chapguy]

Just posting for my own reference. For what it’s worth, here’s categories 1 and 2 grouped from Chris Bartlett’s list.

Ambrofix or Ambroxan 1
Aurantiol 1
Benzyl Salicylate 1
Calone 1
Castoreum Replacement 1% 1
Cedramber 1
Civet Replacement 0.1% 1
Dihydromyrcenol 1
Ebanol 1
Ethylene brassylate 1
Exaltolide 1
Floralozone 1
Galaxolide 50 1
Geranyl Acetate 1
Hedione 1
Hydroxycitronellal 1
Ionone Alpha 1
Iso E Super 1
Linalyl Acetate 1
Methyl Ionone 1
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol 1
Sandela 1
Vanillin 1
Veramoss 1
Vetiveryl acetate 1


Aldehyde C11 2
Aldehyde C12 lauric 2
Aldehyde C12 MNA 2
Aldehyde C14 (gamma Undecalactone) Peach Aldehyde 2
Aldehyde C16 (Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate) Strawberry Aldehyde 2
Aldehyde C18 (gamma Nonalactone) Coconut Aldehyde 2
Amyl Salicylate 2
Anisaldehyde 2
Cashmeran 2
Cinnamic Aldehyde 2
Cis-3-Hexenyl Acetate 2
Coumarin 2
Cyclamen Aldehyde 2
Ethyl Maltol 2
Helional 2
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde 2
Lilial 2
Methyl anthranilate 2
Methyl Laitone 2
Nectarate 2
Safraleine 2
Santaliff 2
Velvione 2
Vertofix 2

[David Ruskin]

May I ask "chapguy" if this is for your own reference why are you posting on Basenotes? The original list of 100 still exists.

[chapguy]

Just an even more edited version for a quick visual with categories 1 and 2 filtered out for anyone to cut and paste. I think maybe someone else could find it useful, especially if they’re like me on a budget and starting out, the more categorical arrangements of the same list, the better.

[David Ruskin]

But they are your choice. I would put several chemicals you have classified as second class, into the first class list; and vice versa.

I do understand the difficulty of buying unknowns on a limited budget , so I do agree with your intentions.