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  1. #1

    Default Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    Now that I'm slightly satisfied with my base accord, it's time to get into the upper floors.
    I was going for some nutmeg, but my EO doesn't smell like nutmeg at all - it smells floral
    spicy (never smelled carnation, so I can't compare).. Is it supposed to be like that? What
    am I going for if I want the smell of the spice? (pimento was too clover-ish for my base)..

    Also, I'm really hooked on the smell of blue chamomile.. Anyone has any experience with
    the different versions Hermitage carry? It seems the CO2 total isn't relevant, so I'm thinking
    either of the EO or the CO2 select (which has high farnesene content..).

    Lastly, I've seen methyl salicylate appear in a few GC's of 'narcotic' flowers.. Since I have
    some wintergreen which I'm not using, I thought about experimenting with its effects.
    Anyone has some experience with using it for this purpose?

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Now that I'm slightly satisfied with my base accord, it's time to get into the upper floors.
    I was going for some nutmeg, but my EO doesn't smell like nutmeg at all - it smells floral
    spicy (never smelled carnation, so I can't compare).. Is it supposed to be like that? What
    am I going for if I want the smell of the spice? (pimento was too clover-ish for my base)..

    Also, I'm really hooked on the smell of blue chamomile.. Anyone has any experience with
    the different versions Hermitage carry? It seems the CO2 total isn't relevant, so I'm thinking
    either of the EO or the CO2 select (which has high farnesene content..).

    Lastly, I've seen methyl salicylate appear in a few GC's of 'narcotic' flowers.. Since I have
    some wintergreen which I'm not using, I thought about experimenting with its effects.
    Anyone has some experience with using it for this purpose?

    Thanks
    With nutmeg it's probably good to experiment with different concentrations, because it's very strong, and its strength neat is for most people probably a complicating factor. In my experience it smells just like the spice, though... Nutmeg is floral, funky and a bit carnation like. It's difficult to use, as compared to clove, almost as difficult to use as cumin. It can overwhelm a blend. I think there's a difference between what most pros do, which is to use a little nutmeg to support a large synthetic accord, and what a more natural perfumer would do, which is to have the nutmeg be a primary note, and having to deal with all its funky idiosyncracies. It's a nice challenge. Typically what I've done is to be careful and conservative at first with it. Nutmeg is characterized by an iso-eugenol note, for most people. But for me, I think of all the strange idiosyncracies and "funkiness." So the most obvious approach for many is to combine it with some of the iso-eugenol related chemicals (e.g., methyl diantilis, methyl isoeugenol...) If you wanted to mellow it out, benzoin or benzyl salicilate (especially, but it's a floral direction) would be classical.

    Pimento to me is very, very different from nutmeg. Pimento will vary with variety. The CO2 is very different from the EO, for example. I have no memory of a clover note in the varieties I've used, but smell memory is flawed, and I'm not sure what you mean by clover note, to be honest. I remember the smell of clover from my front yard as a kid a little bit. Maybe you could give it another chance?

    I can remember disliking some blue chamoniles I've tried, and I had to sample several chamomiles to find one with the smooth, nonintrusive qualities I wanted. Usually, the blue varieties have been more "assertive" in a blend.

    Good idea to use wintergreen, which often contains a high percentage of methyl salicilate. Try it and see. I think it's a generally useful note, in any case, so you might be pleasantly surprised? There's a menthol note in there too, and an anise note.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    Nutmeg was one of the first naturals I dove into head first. I found it to be a very strong dusty note that takes over and muddies a fragrance quickly. I think the Dr gave a good suggestion to use it as a supporter for a nutmeg accord which I have yet to find. Perhaps it's time to revisit the nutmeg accord effort. I seem to remember that Ravensara was something I really liked as a compliment to nutmeg...
    Justin E. Beasley

  4. #4

    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    I guess my nutmeg EO is flawed.. It's from a company whose oils all smell weird (though sometimes useful - their imortelle smells like maple syrup).. I'll get me another one from someplace else.. And I meant clove note for pimento.. Oops
    I meant to use it as a modifier.. I had a feeling it could do something interesting to the blend The only question now is whether I should get the co2 or eo..

    I think I like blue chamomile for its effect on me, and less for its aroma.. It makes me happy!

    Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    I have some immortelle abs and it does have a minor maple syrup and honey note but it's also slightly medicinal, herbal or aromatic with a magnolia/aglaia/cassie/hyssop-like floral aspects, very interesting and complex smell... and very sticky. It kind of reminds me of the smell of some natural food markets I've shopped at.

    I know chamomile is supposed to be calming and I don't doubt that you feel calmed by it but I've never experienced a distinct or obvious sense of calm from drinking or smelling it even though I love the smell of it. However it was a great anti-inflamatory when I steeped the flowers in water to make a diaper rash spray for my kid when she was a baby. Likewise, I have a small bottle of the esteemed pink lotus absolute that so many interwebs people rave about. Several times I've dabbed a bit under my nose before going to bed and it didn't do anything it has been touted as doing. It's supposed to be calming and induces narcotic-like dream states, vivid dreams, etc... nope, as far as I can tell it's just another really expensive, somewhat overpriced, floral material. I'm curious about blue lotus but it's sooo expensive and I have a lot of doubts that it will do anything special besides drain my bank account.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 29th January 2014 at 06:08 AM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  6. #6

    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    I didn't know that about the lotuses.. Though from my (probably fake) oil, I don't think
    I care much for the scent. I once forgot a few anise stars by the bed, and got really
    weird and vivid dreams.. You can try that
    That helichrysum I have that smells like syrup is brown and sticky.. The usual one, from
    a more trustworthy source is pretty think and transparent (and smells like curry when in
    the dry out)..

    And a small correction - it seems my nutmeg does smell like nutmeg after 8 hours on the
    paper..

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    The curry smelling Helichrysium sounds closer to what I have in fact I didn't think about it that way but you are right, mine does have turmeric and fenugreek notes but there is definitely a floral aspect too. I have some fresh nutmeg nuts so I'm considering tincturing some to see what comes of it. Nutmeg is such a warm, pine and citrusy smell but every time I've used it it smells so muddy and dusty, maybe I use too much but unless I do it doesn't really stand out to any extent.

    Hmmm, Anise, that's an interesting one. I rarely remember my dreams so it's always a treat to be able to wake up and remember one, vivid or not. There was a point sometime after age 30 that my dreams became nearly nonexistent. Maybe it's a sign of something biochemical, I don't know.

    Perhaps one has to slather lotus oil all over themselves to get any effect but it's too expensive to waste in that way just so that I can have vivid dreams so I'm not willing to experiment.
    Justin E. Beasley

  8. #8

    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    Some of my spiritual practice involves dreams.. though I've been too lazy to
    do the proper things to remember much. I guess having young kids ruins
    the chance for anything like that..
    Maybe what the doctor said about making a clean nutmeg note would be
    useful. I've also noticed that peru balsam reminds me of nutmeg..

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Questions about naturals - blue chamomile, nutmeg and wintergreen

    I never thought of Peru balsam, I kind of see where you are coming from but a short GC suggests they are nothing alike; I do think it would make a good compliment, blender or modifier though depending on what you're going for.

    Kids, they definitely make some things a lot more challenging... and that's putting it mildly
    Justin E. Beasley

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