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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Have any of the US members here seen the new electronic questionnaire at USPS?

    When the USPS clerk asked me if my recent package of samples had "liquid, fragile, etc.", and I told him it had perfume samples, he had me answer questions on a PIN pad with a little LCD screen.

    First it asked if my package had batteries, perfume, and a few other things. I said "yes". Then it asked me if it had hazardous substances. I confirmed with the clerk (and later online) - alcohol-based perfume IS still a hazardous substance - so I said yes.

    That was it. My package shipped by ground and got to the destination on the predicted day, 3 days later. No arguments from the clerk! I thought this was an excellent use of technology by USPS to make sure that their clerks follow the rules, and the hazardous stuff doesn't go by air. My package was properly marked and packed, so I expected no REAL trouble, but there was no bogus trouble, either.

    Has anybody else in America (or overseas) experienced these new gadgets?
    * * * *

  2. #2

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I have not seen this yet. I was denied shipping some fragrances couple weeks ago. They asked how many bottles and I told them two. You can only ship one at a time said the clerk.

    Usually I only ship one at a time but these were gifts for my mom. Fortunately I had family going out of town so they brought it to her instead.
    Ointment and perfume rejoice the heart: so doth the sweetness of a man's friend by hearty counsel. Proverbs 27:9 KJV

  3. #3
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Not yet, but I'm guessing I will..within a matter of a few a few days, thanks RP !
    OFF SITE SALES, DECANTS ---Dior Privee, Chanel Exclusif, Creed, Maison Francis Kurkdjian, MOLECULE 01
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Not in Chicago yet

  5. #5

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    All very well and good for all you kind folks in the great US and A. The rest of us who live elsewhere are still locked out by this ridiculous state of affairs.

  6. #6

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Interesting. Have not seen this in action yet. Haven't shipped anything in a while.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Yep, I experienced it this past weekend, with a similar end result.

  8. #8

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I've always been saying "No" to hazardous materials when sending samples and have never had any returned or lost (knock wood). I usually don't send out more than 5 at a time anyway and they're completely contained in a cardboard surround for shipping protection, in addition to final sealing in a ziplock bag, then placed inside a bubblewrap mailer. Probably good enough not to trip off any sensors they might use.

    Well, if the package still goes after the questions answered 100% truthfully, maybe I'll start doing that as well. Does the package get stamped in any special way that might cause it to get more careful handling?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Interesting that multiple samples were allowed in one package.

    Redneck P, did they go at First Class rates (albeit by surface) or by Parcel Post rates?


  10. #10

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Brilliant news!

    No such techy stuff here yet - I sent some samples to another U.K. member re-using a jiffy with a Hazmat label the other week - it puzzled the P.O. staff immensely!

    We can send within the U.K. now, with restrictions on volume, packaging & labelling.

  11. #11

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Have any of the US members here seen the new electronic questionnaire at USPS?

    When the USPS clerk asked me if my recent package of samples had "liquid, fragile, etc.", and I told him it had perfume samples, he had me answer questions on a PIN pad with a little LCD screen.

    First it asked if my package had batteries, perfume, and a few other things. I said "yes". Then it asked me if it had hazardous substances. I confirmed with the clerk (and later online) - alcohol-based perfume IS still a hazardous substance - so I said yes.

    That was it. My package shipped by ground and got to the destination on the predicted day, 3 days later. No arguments from the clerk! I thought this was an excellent use of technology by USPS to make sure that their clerks follow the rules, and the hazardous stuff doesn't go by air. My package was properly marked and packed, so I expected no REAL trouble, but there was no bogus trouble, either.

    Has anybody else in America (or overseas) experienced these new gadgets?
    Good to see that the US Postal Service is making good use of technology to get items to their destination safely.

    No doubt the British modernisation of their "Royal" failure known as the postal "service" here will catch up soon. Perhaps in another 80 years or so?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Haven't seen it yet either. I find it quite interesting that the're doing that.

    (3842)
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  13. #13

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Sent Tony a few samples yesterday and noticed it. I was ready to answer the clerk's regular question about having anything fragile or hazardous, but instead she asked me to read the message and answer yes or no. Felt better not having to lie verbally
    Last edited by sjg3839; 5th February 2014 at 06:16 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Hazardous ofcourse not and I won't be lying. Hazardous only if you use it as a beverage , mouth cleanser or as eye drops...
    "Thank GOD for the nose, for without it we would not be enjoying these beautiful created Scents" also Remember "Balance is everything and the key to appreciating "

  15. #15

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by magnus611 View Post
    Hazardous ofcourse not and I won't be lying. Hazardous only if you use it as a beverage , mouth cleanser or as eye drops...
    My understanding by hazardous is anything that could be dangerous during shipping, if accidentally damaged or exposed to beyond normal heat/cold.

  16. #16

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Red, good post.

    I did use this electronic form just last week. As you well know, the postal clerks in my area gave me so much grief over perfume and ORM-D that they essentially recommended I use UPS. So that is what I did not some time.

    Now I just ship ground. No more headaches.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  17. #17

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Correct!
    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    My understanding by hazardous is anything that could be dangerous during shipping, if accidentally damaged or exposed to beyond normal heat/cold.

  18. #18

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    My understanding by hazardous is anything that could be dangerous during shipping, if accidentally damaged or exposed to beyond normal heat/cold.
    For the record, it is illegal to ship spiders.

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...w-spiders-UCR/
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Why is anyone still going to the post office? If you own a printer then you have no excuse not to print postage at home using Paypal Ship Now.
    Why are you torturing yourself? You are paying more to have them waste your time.
    *BASENOTES SPLITS*
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    *CRYSTAL FLACON SPLITS*
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    http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?p=927#927

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I go to a mailing service. I wrap my packages thoroughly and they never quiz me about the contents. I mark them fragile so they are shipped with other lightweight packages. So far, so good.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev320 View Post
    I have not seen this yet. I was denied shipping some fragrances couple weeks ago. They asked how many bottles and I told them two. You can only ship one at a time said the clerk.

    Usually I only ship one at a time but these were gifts for my mom. Fortunately I had family going out of town so they brought it to her instead.
    Glad it worked out. I have to say, I really hate it when I have to repackage or give up!

    Yes - the rules are really too complex. I think the way it works is that if something qualifies as a limited quantity under the limited quantity specifications of the hazard class (in this case a flammable liquid), it can only be a single container, which when non-metal can only be a pint for lower flash point, and a quart for higher flash point. Most single fragrance bottles easily go under the 1-pint (16 fluid ounce) limitation. Because of what they are, they automatically classify as ORM-D, and don't need hazardous material shipping papers. ORM-D will be going away, BUT fragrance bottles should then be classified as consumer commodity materials under the new law, which takes effect on January 1 of 2015, and brings us into sync with international regulations, which are actually similar - at least now. Liquid samples, however, appear to fall under a different limited quantity category - the small quantity category - that maxes out at 30 mL for flammable liquids.

    Here is a good link on mailability:

    http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#1064962

    Here is the specific rule about ORM-D and the replacement by new regulations:

    ORM-D (Other Regulated Material) material is a limited quantity of a hazardous material that presents a limited hazard during transportation due to its form, quantity, and packaging. Not all hazardous materials permitted to be shipped as a limited quantity can qualify as an ORM-D material. The ORM-D category is only applicable for materials intended for ground transportation. Effective January 1, 2015, the ORM-D category will be eliminated for materials intended for surface transportation. After this date, the mailability of materials previously fitting the description of ORM-D must be evaluated based on its eligibility under the applicable consumer commodity or mailable limited quantity categories.
    Here is the page for the small quantity category, which is in Publication 52, the full regulations for hazardous materials.

    http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_013.htm

    And here is the Talmud of Hazardous Perfumes and Mailable Scorpions - Publication 52 (Not to be confused with Area 51! )

    http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by willyb View Post
    Not yet, but I'm guessing I will..within a matter of a few a few days, thanks RP !
    You're welcome! Hope it comes soon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony T View Post
    Not in Chicago yet
    Wow. Amazed it's not there before anybody else. Our post office is virtually in the boondocks. Of course, that may be why. If it's a fail, it's a small fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul P View Post
    All very well and good for all you kind folks in the great US and A. The rest of us who live elsewhere are still locked out by this ridiculous state of affairs.
    We may be joining you in some ways. They say that the changes coming are to harmonize with the international regulations.

    Are you all using these symbols now? We will be using them soon....



    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Interesting. Have not seen this in action yet. Haven't shipped anything in a while.
    Hoping you have good experiences soon!

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    Yep, I experienced it this past weekend, with a similar end result.
    Excellent! That's what I was hoping - that I was not alone on this change.

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    I've always been saying "No" to hazardous materials when sending samples and have never had any returned or lost (knock wood). I usually don't send out more than 5 at a time anyway and they're completely contained in a cardboard surround for shipping protection, in addition to final sealing in a ziplock bag, then placed inside a bubblewrap mailer. Probably good enough not to trip off any sensors they might use.

    Well, if the package still goes after the questions answered 100% truthfully, maybe I'll start doing that as well. Does the package get stamped in any special way that might cause it to get more careful handling?
    Right now you're supposed to mark with "ORM-D" in a rectangle. You can buy labels, make your own, or just write ORM-D with a black marker and draw a rectangle around it.

    Great entry about ORM-D on Wikipedia. A bit hard to read, but very exact. However, the category disappears next year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D

    Your mailing method sounds good. The current regs are basically the following: Fragrance in a strong container with a positive seal (basically no corks or stoppers, unless taped or wired down securely. Surround with absorbent packing material that will cushion against breakage and absorb all liquid if there is a spill. Enclose that in a liquid-proof bag or other liquid-proof container that will contain the wet absorbent. Enclose that in additional packing as needed, and the outer box or mailer which is sufficiently strong to contain everything.

    So if your mailer would contain the entire liquid spill if it all spilled, you're good with that ziploc. You probably just want some absorbent (like paper) inside it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    Interesting that multiple samples were allowed in one package.

    Redneck P, did they go at First Class rates (albeit by surface) or by Parcel Post rates?
    If it's small enough, like mine, then by First Class surface. They told me that if it's a big box, it can go by Parcel Post. The actual category mine got was "First Class Mail Parcel", for a weight of 5.0 oz total (I use a lot of packing), at a price of $2.68.

    I think the multiple samples was allowed by the small quantity classification. Either that or they just don't apply the same standard as two bottles. One can see the rationale behind the one-bottle rule - to assure that the packing will protect the bottle, since multiple bottles may shift enough to break each other. In contrast, multiple samples likely won't, and act (in a sense) like a "Titanic" version of a single bottle. If I ship 50 mL of fragrance in 20 2.5-mL hard plastic atomizers, it's probably safer than a single bottle.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Brilliant news!

    No such techy stuff here yet - I sent some samples to another U.K. member re-using a jiffy with a Hazmat label the other week - it puzzled the P.O. staff immensely!

    We can send within the U.K. now, with restrictions on volume, packaging & labelling.
    I will bet that our restrictions will be about the same as yours. It sounds like you guys had the same thing as us earlier - mass confusion at the Post Office when the regulations changed. I suspect that is why they're doing this here - to prevent creating an election issue when regulations change yet again here.

    Quote Originally Posted by rum View Post
    Good to see that the US Postal Service is making good use of technology to get items to their destination safely.

    No doubt the British modernisation of their "Royal" failure known as the postal "service" here will catch up soon. Perhaps in another 80 years or so?
    LOL! Actually, I think you guys are ahead. We just automated the interpretation of the rules, rather than learn them or simplify them. Not sure if there is any possible positive outcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    Haven't seen it yet either. I find it quite interesting that the're doing that.

    (3842)
    Me too. The optimist in me says they did it to satisfy the consumer. The cynic in me says that they're preparing to depersonalize the future confrontation when they finally say "Sorry - can't ship fragrance." People will obey a machine - the trusting fools! They don't remember - dumb humans programmed the machine!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sjg3839 View Post
    Sent Tony a few samples yesterday and noticed it. I was ready to answer the clerk's regular question about having anything fragile or hazardous, but instead she asked me to read the message and answer yes or no. Felt better not having to lie verbally
    LOL! Hey - no reason to lie at all, now!

    Quote Originally Posted by magnus611 View Post
    Hazardous of course not and I won't be lying. Hazardous only if you use it as a beverage , mouth cleanser or as eye drops...
    LOL! Very much agreed, but the Post Office is very hardcore about flammable items. To them, even oil-based perfumes ("combustible", not "flammable") are hazardous.

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    My understanding by hazardous is anything that could be dangerous during shipping, if accidentally damaged or exposed to beyond normal heat/cold.
    That's the basic rationale. There are supposedly two cargo plane accidents, with fatalities, that were due to oxidizers shipped without proper labeling. But the hazardous category (Publication 52) is pretty broad.

    I have a lot of links at the end of my most recent blog post on this: http://cologniac.wordpress.com/2014/...e-mailability/

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    Red, good post.

    I did use this electronic form just last week. As you well know, the postal clerks in my area gave me so much grief over perfume and ORM-D that they essentially recommended I use UPS. So that is what I did not some time.

    Now I just ship ground. No more headaches.
    Yes - I actually went FedEx for a while, when I wanted to ship internationally, but it was a REAL pain. I just gave up on international shipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by sjg3839 View Post
    Correct!
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    For the record, it is illegal to ship spiders.

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...w-spiders-UCR/
    LOL!

    But it's OK to ship scorpions! Unfair! However, it figures. Scorpions are the vintage Guerlain of arthropods. Of course the elite will make an exception for them!

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    Why is anyone still going to the post office? If you own a printer then you have no excuse not to print postage at home using Paypal Ship Now.
    Why are you torturing yourself? You are paying more to have them waste your time.
    Why does anybody still own a printer?

    Seriously, you're right. My son has gone over completely to click-n-ship, which I guess includes the PayPal Ship Now.

    Does it ask you about hazardous stuff? I'm curious if it does something bogus like send you to the Post Office, or simply handle it in software, like it should. The label should automatically divert your mail to the right stream, and it could even tell you how to properly pack.
    * * * *

  22. #22

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Haven't seen it yet. When I told the clerk at my local post office that I was shipping perfume, it was as if sirens went off in preparation for a swatt team's arrival. The rule about not shipping perfume by air is silly, though, given that every plane has loads of it in people's luggage. Thanks for all the good info here, tho.

  23. #23
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    There's alcohol in the drink carts, too. Silliness.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    """"""""Why does anybody still own a printer?

    Seriously, you're right. My son has gone over completely to click-n-ship, which I guess includes the PayPal Ship Now.

    Does it ask you about hazardous stuff? I'm curious if it does something bogus like send you to the Post Office, or simply handle it in software, like it should. The label should automatically divert your mail to the right stream, and it could even tell you how to properly pack."""""""


    It doesnt ask you ANYTHING. You type in the address, put in the weight, (Always 3 oz), and then choose first class. Pay and print.

    PAYPAL SHIP NOW
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...60983673,d.aWc


    For international 1st class shipping use USPS.com.

    If you want to continue to waste money and time then I cant help anymore. I have mailed thousands of packages and have had zero problems. The government does not care that you are mailing small amounts of fragrances.

    Just think of the people behind you in line if you dont care about wasting your own time....
    *BASENOTES SPLITS*
    Creed Green Irish Tweed, Millesime Imperial, AVENTUS
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/289345-
    *CRYSTAL FLACON SPLITS*
    Creed Green Irish Tweed, Millesime Imperial, AVENTUS
    http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?p=927#927

    *BIG SALE- Chanel, Dior, Creed, Mona di Orio, Puredistance....
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/383...re#post3178152

  25. #25
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    So you don't have to have a scale and calculate the correct weight?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    Haven't seen it yet. When I told the clerk at my local post office that I was shipping perfume, it was as if sirens went off in preparation for a swatt team's arrival. The rule about not shipping perfume by air is silly, though, given that every plane has loads of it in people's luggage. Thanks for all the good info here, tho.
    You're welcome!

    Yeah, not sure what the deal is, but let me play devil's advocate, as a chemist. There have been two cargo plane crashes due to unmarked oxidizers, which are probably the most dangerous realistic thing that ships unannounced, other than a lithium battery (strong reducer). So it's not unreasonable that a strong oxidizer would end up in a bunch of mail, unannounced. If it starts reacting with paper, you could have a paper fire, but if there is a small percentage of alcohol constituting the mass of the mail, it will accelerate the fire, because alcohol is an accelerant. And the problem in a plane is that it takes a fixed time to land. What may be a survivable fire with only an oxidizer, could be non-survivable with an accelerant present. Since the Post Office uses passenger cargo to speed up delivery times, they either hold mail for hazardous cargo planes, or keep it on the ground.

    Personally, I think the problem is their marketing of the rules. If the Post Office said "We love to ship your liquids, BOOZE, etc. - just tell us, so everything and everybody gets there safely!" - well, people would be glad to comply. But when they treat people like it's a swat incident, then it's trouble. People actually avoid the hassle (or feared hassle) of declaring their stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    There's alcohol in the drink carts, too. Silliness.
    Seriously. If somebody's mini bottle of Johnny Walker drained into their laptop, that would NOT be pretty. Check out the video below.

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    """"""""Why does anybody still own a printer?

    Seriously, you're right. My son has gone over completely to click-n-ship, which I guess includes the PayPal Ship Now.

    Does it ask you about hazardous stuff? I'm curious if it does something bogus like send you to the Post Office, or simply handle it in software, like it should. The label should automatically divert your mail to the right stream, and it could even tell you how to properly pack."""""""


    It doesnt ask you ANYTHING. You type in the address, put in the weight, (Always 3 oz), and then choose first class. Pay and print.

    PAYPAL SHIP NOW
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...60983673,d.aWc


    For international 1st class shipping use USPS.com.

    If you want to continue to waste money and time then I cant help anymore. I have mailed thousands of packages and have had zero problems. The government does not care that you are mailing small amounts of fragrances.

    Just think of the people behind you in line if you dont care about wasting your own time....
    I prefer to let others live dangerously!

    As long as nothing bad happens, you're pretty much OK. I seriously doubt that you would be prosecuted for simply shipping something like this. I just have a lot of bad luck, shall we say. Kinda runs in my family.

    But just so that the fines are no surprise, check this out:

    http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...5.23.1&idno=49

    The amazing thing is how much of a total fine somebody could actually be stuck with, for an unmarked Creed flacon that leaked during international air shipment. Nothing would likely happen if it simply leaked without consequence, but if the juice contacted an unmarked lithium or lithium-polymer battery, or if the battery caught fire for any of the gazillion reasons they catch fire (they do so very easily) and ignited the Creed, the fragrance shipper (and the battery shipper) could be looking at not just a lot of money, but 15 minutes of fame. The most likely outcome would be a burst cargo compartment with a lot of smoke.

    The government seems to be very interested in the combination of alcohol and a lithium battery or an oxidizer in an airplane. Basically a combination of a strong redox agent and an accelerant. I suspect that is the Post Office "dread scenario". Like most air accidents are now, it's a freak confluence of two improbable events. The chance of being the person who shipped the battery or the alcohol on the fateful flight (which has NEVER actually happened yet!) is going to be absolutely miniscule. Still - the chances go up by multiple orders of magnitude when people don't pay attention to the rules, and if they wanted to throw the book at me for it, after the fact, they would have me dead to rights. I simply don't want to be "that guy".

    http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/syste...y_04112006.pdf

    http://www.prba.org/wp-content/uploa...ugust_2007.pdf

    * * * *

  27. #27

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    No, I haven't seen this yet. I usually say No to such questions in fear of it being declined for shipment, though this may be amoral.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  28. #28
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post
    No, I haven't seen this yet. I usually say No to such questions in fear of it being declined for shipment, though this may be amoral.
    Most people don't admit they're shipping fragrance, and I have to say, I don't blame them. People who shipped fragrance up until now and admitted it have been treated like criminals. So people just have not been saying if they are shipping fragrance.

    It's a bit like the same principle used to pump a laser - "population inversion". Treat the ground state (no pun intended - meaning honest people) badly, but not the people who either just don't care or who lie about it. It inverts the population - the populated state becomes lying about it. Kinda weird.

    But anyway, if you're shipping in the states now, and you get the machine, you can just say yes to both questions for a domestic shipment and they take the fragrance. It will get the maximum amount of fragrance out of the airplanes and into ground. It's the best thing for safety AND honesty. The reduced amount going by air lessens the chance of an accident. From nothing to nothing, when you round to actual accidents, but hey - we know it's less!
    * * * *

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    What special treatment do the "Hazardous materials" packages on transcontinental flights receive?

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    What special treatment do the "Hazardous materials" packages on transcontinental flights receive?
    Generally speaking, they have to go on cargo flights, with shipping papers. The commercial shippers can do it, but they have a lot of rules. USPS uses the cargo area of passenger flights, both domestically and internationally, so they've just decided to ban hazardous stuff by air completely.

    Beyond that, there are lots of package, stowage, and other restrictions on how they ride. After reading about battery shipments catching fire on the runway during loading, for no apparent reason, I can kinda see why! It's like a flying laboratory or commercial loading dock.
    * * * *

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Seems like a bad idea to put the batteries in the mail, for sure!

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by magnus611 View Post
    Hazardous ofcourse not and I won't be lying. Hazardous only if you use it as a beverage , mouth cleanser or as eye drops...
    LOL, I also see nothing hazardous about it haha

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Seems like a bad idea to put the batteries in the mail, for sure!
    Totally! And especially the lithium ones. I remember years ago, when lithium batteries first came out as common commercial products, I was, like - "REALLY? What the...?" Lithium isn't as reactive as sodium or potassium, but it carries a whopping amount of energy. Which makes it amazing for batteries, but as you can see in the videos, lithium and lithium/polymer batteries have a LOT of energy in an oxidizing or even a redox-neutral environment.
    * * * *

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I ship from home, have a small scale, and use all kinds of fun stamps, as my vast fan base can attest. My understanding is that a package 13 oz or less can be put in a mail collection box. Mine are well under that, usually, 3 ounces or less. I mark the package "First class GROUND". I wonder if this is sufficient.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    My guess is that on any given day there are thousands if not tens of thousands of shipments via USPS that contain undeclared 'hazardous' materials, i.e fragrances. Anyone know of a data base of problems that can be studied, a data base of explosions or fires etc. caused by these particular (fragrances) 'hazardous' materials? I have never heard of a single incident, but then, I don't have access to such a data base if one exists.
    Last edited by kbe; 7th February 2014 at 01:44 PM.
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I actually didn't realize that laptop batteries are so prone to fires. It's a wonder they allow them on airplanes at all.


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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Generally speaking, they have to go on cargo flights, with shipping papers. The commercial shippers can do it, but they have a lot of rules. USPS uses the cargo area of passenger flights, both domestically and internationally, so they've just decided to ban hazardous stuff by air completely.

    Beyond that, there are lots of package, stowage, and other restrictions on how they ride. After reading about battery shipments catching fire on the runway during loading, for no apparent reason, I can kinda see why! It's like a flying laboratory or commercial loading dock.
    So that means no perfume can travel from Europe to US or from US to Asia or to Australia legally? Unless they mix it in with other hazardous material which is likely to explode anyway. Sure, that makes sense! :-/

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I rate in-transit spontaneously generated explosions/fires from shipped fragrances to be on a par with, both in number and accuracy of cause, with the (supposed) spontaneous human combustion:

    http://www.skepdic.com/shc.html

    If the problem with shipping fragrance is the possibility of the alcohol/oils contained in fragrances as being fuel for a spontaneous or an existing fire, then I say ban all air shipment of any and all flammable products, and of course the use of any flammable wrapping materials such as USPS provided paper/cardboard envelopes, boxes and stamps. Explosion containing, high melting point metal wrappings/boxes/envelopes/stamps etc. Yeah! That's the ticket!
    Last edited by kbe; 7th February 2014 at 06:04 PM.
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    My complaint is that it sounds like the Govt is charging exorbitant fees (now $50 a whack) to ship perfume overseas, just to give the package a different seat on the same plane! I really don't get it. I hate to be obtuse , but , WTF!

    Also, English rules, on Ormonde Jayne , for instance as follows; Under 30ml, reduced fee (don't recall) over 30ml $50 fee. So isn't a small amount of alcohol just as flammable?
    Last edited by kumquat; 7th February 2014 at 06:29 PM.

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jujy54 View Post
    I ship from home, have a small scale, and use all kinds of fun stamps, as my vast fan base can attest. My understanding is that a package 13 oz or less can be put in a mail collection box. Mine are well under that, usually, 3 ounces or less. I mark the package "First class GROUND". I wonder if this is sufficient.
    From what I understand, the GROUND part is the part that people generally forget, so very good. (I write "ORM-D" and "SURFACE MAIL ONLY", in accord with regulations that were quoted to me.) Just add the "ORM-D" in a rectangle, and you will be fine. According to the regulations I was given by an official, putting ORM-D to the left of the address in a clear fashion, and SURFACE MAIL ONLY below the address, is preferred. The ORM-D thing is basically a hand-drawn lettering and box in imitation of this label:



    I just noted that Fragrancenet doesn't label with ORM-D, but from what I recall, Saks does. However, Fragrancenet may be using some other form of registered shipper regulations, since they do so much. Clearly, this whole thing is very complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    My guess is that on any given day there are thousands if not tens of thousands of shipments via USPS that contain undeclared 'hazardous' materials, i.e fragrances. Anyone know of a data base of problems that can be studied, a data base of explosions or fires etc. caused by these particular (fragrances) 'hazardous' materials? I have never heard of a single incident, but then, I don't have access to such a data base if one exists.
    I would love those stats, too. Frankly, however, if congresspeople can't get documents anymore, I seriously doubt that anybody else ever will. Presumably this is now some kind of state secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    I actually didn't realize that laptop batteries are so prone to fires. It's a wonder they allow them on airplanes at all.
    Definitely. I think it comes down to usefulness to the public. If banning it would cause an uproar, they find a way to allow it.

    But that does betray a method to the madness. The CABIN is where they allow laptops and batteries - NOT luggage. The reason is clearly fire suppression. Cabins are filled with excellent fire-suppression equipment and people trained to use it. But if something is in the hold, only automated systems can combat it. Planes appear to be in greatest danger from odd combinations of things that come together accidentally, such as in the mail, but in a place that can get out of control without any possibility for intervention.

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    So that means no perfume can travel from Europe to US or from US to Asia or to Australia legally? Unless they mix it in with other hazardous material which is likely to explode anyway. Sure, that makes sense! :-/
    LOL! In a sense, that's right. Cargo runs are allowed by be dangerous - passenger flights are kept relatively danger-free.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    I rate in-transit spontaneously generated explosions/fires from shipped fragrances to be on a par with, both in number and accuracy of cause, with the (supposed) spontaneous human combustion:

    http://www.skepdic.com/shc.html

    If the problem with shipping fragrance is the possibility of the alcohol/oils contained in fragrances as being fuel for a spontaneous or an existing fire, then I say ban all air shipment of any and all flammable products, and of course the use of any flammable wrapping materials such as USPS provided paper/cardboard envelopes, boxes and stamps. Explosion containing, high melting point metal wrappings/boxes/envelopes/stamps etc. Yeah! That's the ticket!
    LOL - Please don't give them any ideas! I can feel bureaucrats nodding in agreement, just looking at your words!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    My complaint is that it sounds like the Govt is charging exorbitant fees (now $50 a whack) to ship perfume overseas, just to give the package a different seat on the same plane! I really don't get it. I hate to be obtuse , but , WTF!

    Also, English rules, on Ormonde Jayne , for instance as follows; Under 30ml, reduced fee (don't recall) over 30ml $50 fee. So isn't a small amount of alcohol just as flammable?
    Yup - that looks like the 30-mL rule in action! And that $50 looks about right for the FedEx hazardous substance fee on a bottle or two of fragrance.
    * * * *

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    I have searched Google for incidences of explosions or fires caused by mailed perfume or any cosmetic fragrance. Below is the list of events uncovered by this search:
    Our job is to live joyfully in this world of sorrows--Joseph Campbell

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    I have searched Google for incidences of explosions or fires caused by mailed perfume or any cosmetic fragrance. Below is the list of events uncovered by this search:
    LOL!

    I have searched Google Images for planets known to be under attempted domination by an unseen elite, who would go so far as to prohibit non-corporate sharing of fragrance. Below is a set of such images.

    * * * *

  43. #43

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    It is strange that, the last time I flew, I answered yes to TSA when asked if I had anything blah blah blah and flammable. I let them open up the bag and told them it was a bottle of cologne, then they said "nah, we're looking for something with a higher flashpoint than that". So yeah, safe enough to put in your luggage on a flight, but not in a box.
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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Red, I use stamps.com for my mailing and no, for domestic mail, does not ask what you are mailing. International will tell you what you are not allowed to mail to the various countries, and have never seen one that says Perfume or anything related.

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bark View Post
    It is strange that, the last time I flew, I answered yes to TSA when asked if I had anything blah blah blah and flammable. I let them open up the bag and told them it was a bottle of cologne, then they said "nah, we're looking for something with a higher flashpoint than that". So yeah, safe enough to put in your luggage on a flight, but not in a box.
    That's an excellent point. The way luggage is badly handled, a bottle could easily break. I made the mistake of putting cans of Diet Sprite in soft-sided luggage, years ago, and the result sucked.

    As for flashpoint, what they meant was LOWER flashpoint. Egads.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmBeach View Post
    Red, I use stamps.com for my mailing and no, for domestic mail, does not ask what you are mailing. International will tell you what you are not allowed to mail to the various countries, and have never seen one that says Perfume or anything related.
    Interesting! They really need to get that stuff integrated. Either that, or redo the international regulations entirely, which is what would get my vote. I think the overall regs look good - it's what to do about class 3 flammable liquids in planes that needs work.

    I think that fragrance as a consumer commodity could probably get the go-ahead for international shipment by air without paperwork, from a safety standpoint. Planes are basically giant flying gas tanks - much more flammable than alcohol-based fragrances. But what they should do is simply this - announce and *enforce* on declaration (not labeling, since ultimately that's not needed). Then keep the alcoholic stuff bagged separately from the rest of the mail. So as long as you declare your fragrance, it can be easily segregated and shipped by air. Fine a few people for shipping undeclared perfume at the FB level, but zero cost for shipping declared perfume, and people will comply swiftly. The mantra at the counter could be simply "Perfume and alcohol fly separately." Problem over. And let liquor shipments back on planes, which is a moneymaker for the USPS, which needs it.

    (BTW - the switch to electronic form could actually be a preparation for levying of fines. It would make sense. Not saying it is, but it would make sense.)

    Batteries and oxidizers are the real sticky widgets. I really think those are the troublemakers. There are REAL cases of lithium batteries catching fire on the runway. Laptops overheating and turning into fireworks. Batteries need to go cargo or cabin. As long as people know they need to carry their loose lithium batteries outside of checked luggage, no problem.

    The policies on batteries in planes are sensible. They realize that when they're enclosed in a device, they will most likely just drain in place, or the device will contain the burn. Thus, only loose batteries are prohibited in checked baggage - a good call.

    http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html
    * * * *

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    That's an excellent point. The way luggage is badly handled, a bottle could easily break. I made the mistake of putting cans of Diet Sprite in soft-sided luggage, years ago, and the result sucked.

    As for flashpoint, what they meant was LOWER flashpoint. Egads.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point



    Interesting! They really need to get that stuff integrated. Either that, or redo the international regulations entirely, which is what would get my vote. I think the overall regs look good - it's what to do about class 3 flammable liquids in planes that needs work.

    I think that fragrance as a consumer commodity could probably get the go-ahead for international shipment by air without paperwork, from a safety standpoint. Planes are basically giant flying gas tanks - much more flammable than alcohol-based fragrances. But what they should do is simply this - announce and *enforce* on declaration (not labeling, since ultimately that's not needed). Then keep the alcoholic stuff bagged separately from the rest of the mail. So as long as you declare your fragrance, it can be easily segregated and shipped by air. Fine a few people for shipping undeclared perfume at the FB level, but zero cost for shipping declared perfume, and people will comply swiftly. The mantra at the counter could be simply "Perfume and alcohol fly separately." Problem over. And let liquor shipments back on planes, which is a moneymaker for the USPS, which needs it.

    (BTW - the switch to electronic form could actually be a preparation for levying of fines. It would make sense. Not saying it is, but it would make sense.)

    Batteries and oxidizers are the real sticky widgets. I really think those are the troublemakers. There are REAL cases of lithium batteries catching fire on the runway. Laptops overheating and turning into fireworks. Batteries need to go cargo or cabin. As long as people know they need to carry their loose lithium batteries outside of checked luggage, no problem.

    The policies on batteries in planes are sensible. They realize that when they're enclosed in a device, they will most likely just drain in place, or the device will contain the burn. Thus, only loose batteries are prohibited in checked baggage - a good call.

    http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html
    The last 4 paragraphs of your post should be posted as a sticky and should be held up as a paradigm of reason and good sense in this whole sorry debate.

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul P View Post
    The last 4 paragraphs of your post should be posted as a sticky and should be held up as a paradigm of reason and good sense in this whole sorry debate.
    I personally wonder whether the introduction of more severe restrictions on shipping fragrances had to do with issues other than safety.

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Between eBay and basenotes, I think I've sold about 12 perfumes. All have been discontinued perfumes I figured id release into the wild and let someone enjoy, and then about 4 bottles of Meharees to poor Californians that can't buy them (I made no money on them).

    I bought a kitchen scale off of eBay for $5. It's digital and let's me do everything accurately at home and on my computer without having to wait in the miserable post office. And of course you save a ton of money.

    If I did have to go to the post office, and they asked me anything, I'd lie. They can kiss my butt. Lol

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I personally wonder whether the introduction of more severe restrictions on shipping fragrances had to do with issues other than safety.
    Lyn,

    I have thought much the same - most fragrances are made in France, and then most of the rest are made in Italy, Spain or the US. Yet clearly they are sold throughout the world. How do these fragrances travel from their country of origin to the rest of the world ? Not by boat I can assure you. There are clearly some entities / individuals who are permitted to ship via air, supposedly because they have the correct training, or the correct licenses etc. But fragrances are not a restricted or "dangerous" goods - they are sprayed all over our bodies, they are handled by pimply faced SA's the world over.

    I understand the whole "alcohol flammable flashpoint" argument, but to me it is flawed.

  50. #50

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    It's only really affecting the poor old consumer/grey market/small producers, Paul - hence my doubts.

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    It's only really affecting the poor old consumer/grey market/small producers, Paul - hence my doubts.
    Lyn,

    you and I think similarly about this issue - we'll just have to agree to agree !

  52. #52

    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Aw, no fighting then, Paul

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    Default Re: USPS Electronic Perfume Questionnaire - Have You Seen It Yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul P View Post
    The last 4 paragraphs of your post should be posted as a sticky and should be held up as a paradigm of reason and good sense in this whole sorry debate.
    Thanks!

    I appreciate the vote of confidence. I was actually a bit worried about the part where I advocated enforcement of declaration in exchange for more lenient shipment. Sounds like that wasn't as unreasonable as I feared it might sound!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I personally wonder whether the introduction of more severe restrictions on shipping fragrances had to do with issues other than safety.
    I believe that it does, although the explanation is not really that nefarious. Though it does demonstrate a certain lack of care for the little people.

    The simple fact is that the world is becoming so connected, that every difference incurs a cost. If there are not enough people to advocate for preservation of a difference, humanity will try to smooth it out without asking. So the efforts to harmonize transportation rules have impetus, even if there is no large-scale conversation about it. I have to say - I value some of the benefits. The fact that I can drive around Spain in an English sports car made mostly in Germany with a Japanese engine, and all I had to do was show my American driver's license - I'll take as much of that as I can get.

    This can have a downside, of course. In America, we see increasing numbers of foreign truckers whose exam standards are less than our own. But our grocery bills and prices of manufactured and assembled goods are still very reasonable for the same reason.

    As things smooth out, there are kinks this way and that. Some will lead to lower safety, others to too much. In the case of fragrance, they seem to just want to harmonize the shipping rules, and the big players are the ones that help work those out by lobbying for the changes they need to stay in business. Nobody is at the table speaking directly for us. MAYBE somebody from eBay, though I think they're worried more about dealing with the counterfeit issue. So nobody is really advocating for our convenience. The big players will only do as much for us as is needed to prevent a media debacle. So I don't think they will ever ban the shipping of fragrance by individuals. But they will come as close as they can, if it means convenience for a big player of any kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphexacid View Post
    Between eBay and basenotes, I think I've sold about 12 perfumes. All have been discontinued perfumes I figured id release into the wild and let someone enjoy, and then about 4 bottles of Meharees to poor Californians that can't buy them (I made no money on them).

    I bought a kitchen scale off of eBay for $5. It's digital and let's me do everything accurately at home and on my computer without having to wait in the miserable post office. And of course you save a ton of money.

    If I did have to go to the post office, and they asked me anything, I'd lie. They can kiss my butt. Lol
    You are doing a service for your fellow fragrance lovers, and I appreciate it!!!
    * * * *

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