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Thread: Help needed

  1. #1

    Default Help needed

    So I am really new at this and am trying to make a chypre from oak moss, cedarwood, balsam fir needle and bergamot, but I just can not get right. At this point I am considering just not using the bergamot or balsam fir needle and doing and even mixture of oakmoss and cedarwood. I am using my mixture in an aftershave so it will be fairly diluted so I am not worried about there being a dangerous amount of oak moss in it (besides this is really just for personal use). I was wondering if this is a bad idea, or if anyone has any suggestions for this mix. Some of the mixtures I have tried are (in drops in order of oak moss-cedarwood-balsam fir needle-bergamot) 3,2,3,2 / 3,3,3,3/ 4,3,2,3/ 2,2,4,4/ 2,2,5,6. These are the good ones anyway. So, any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Help needed

    Basic Chypre

    Bergamot 15
    Sandalwood 8
    Vetiver 6
    oakmoss 5
    Rose 6
    Jasmin 5
    Gamma Methyl Ionone 3
    Patchouli 5
    Musk ketone 3
    Clary sage 2
    Neroli 2


    Chyphre accord
    Oakmoss absolute 28EO Bergamot 18Coumarin 18Amber base 10EO Clary sage 5Methyl ionone 5Sassafras oil 5EO Vetiver 4EO Patchouli 3Rose absolute 2Eugenol 2

    Chypre with green root note
    220 Bergamot EO 100 Benzyl acetate100 Musk xylene* 85 Oakmoss abs 80 Sandalwood Mysore EO 60 Rose abs 50 Orange EO 50 Labdanum res 40 Patchouli EO 40 Jasmin abs 40 Castoreum res 30 Musk ambrette 20 Geranium EO 20 Neroli EO 20 Musk ketone 20 Cassia abs 20 Nutmeg EO 5 Civet purified * The formula is from the 1940's, Musk xylene is not allowed to use in a lot of countries now

    Chypre aldehydic Copied from the site NIIR
    Rose base 1.80 Ysminia (Firmenich) 15.00 Jasmin absolute 15.00 Oakmoss absolute superessence, Yugoslav (Schmoller) 0.60 Bergamot oil 4.20 Oakmoss absolute (Camilli) 4.35 Jasmin base 4.00 Geranium sur rose oil 1.80 Methyl ionone 11.30 Vetiver oil 3.60 Sandalwool oil 1.30 Linalool ex bois de rose 1.80 Dianthine (Firmenich) 7.60 Eugenol 0.75 Hydroxycitronellal 0.75 Gardenia 9058 (Givaudan) 4.00 Costus absolute 10% 2.10 Mace oil 0.15 Florizia (Firmenich) 3.15 Tincture of Musk, 3% 7.60 Tincute of Civet, 3% 1.00 Musk ambrette 0.70 Musk ketone 1.40 Coumarin 0.30 Vanillin 0.15 Aldehyde C.10, 1% 0.80 Aldehyde C.11 (undecyclenic) 1% 1.20 Aldehyde C.12 (MNA) 10% 3.60 100.00

    Chypre animalic Copied from the site NIIR
    Oakmoss absolute hyperessence (Charabot) 0.30 Jasmin absolute 0.90 Musc VH (Ets. Hasslauer) 10% 20.15 Musc baume epure (Payan & Bertrand)10% 10.00 Ambergris tincture 18.80 Civet tincture 29.00 Musk ketone 0.30 alpha-Methyl ionone 0.90 Sandalwood oil 0.40 Vetiver oil 0.90 Bergamot oil 4.75 Rose No.3 3.75 Bouvardia CNC (Firmenich) 4.75 Carrot Clair (Lautier) 10% 2.05 Celery Clair (Lautier) 10% 1.25 Tobacco W (I.F.F.) 0.55 Aldehyde C.11 (undecylenic) 10% 0.25 Cyclopentadecanolide 1% 0.15 Orange oil superdèterpenèe (Charabot) 0.35 Celery seed oil 0.35 Angelica root oil 0.15 100.00

    Chypre base 1 Copied from the site NIIR
    Coumarin 8.70 Vanillin 4.60 Ethyl vanillin 2.90 Heliotropin 1.80 Methyl ionone 1.20 Musk ketone 0.75 Rose base 0.60 Orange oi, bitter, Guinea 4.50 Geraniol extra 2.90 Bois de Rhodes oil (Chiris-UOP) 1.00 Noisette (de Laire) 0.20 Sandalwood oil 2.80 Benzoin Supergomodor (Chiris-UOP) 0.45 Liquidambar II 2.90 Labdanum Clair (Lautier) 5.80 Linalool ex bois de rose Cayenne 0.75 Linalyl acetate ex bois de rose 2.90 Terpinyl acetate 8.80 Benzyl acetate 2.90 Vetiver acetate 0.09 Estragon (tarragon) oil 5% 0.54 isoButylquinolin 5% 0.75 Ysminia (Firmenich) 1.20 Bergamot oil, sesquiterpeneless 34.97 Bergamot oil 6.00 100.00

    Chypre base 2 Copied from the site NIIR
    Opopanax L 2.60 Hydroxycitronellal 2.60 Cyclamen aldehyde 0.40 isoButyl salicylate 1.70 Costus oil 0.90 Bergamot oil 4.22 Cyclosia Base (Firmenich) 2.00 Patchouli oil 18.10 Vetiverol 4.82 Jasmin base 4.23 Ylang-ylang oil 5.07 Muguet base 4.22 Paracetone (Givaudan) 4.22 Lavender oil 1.70 Hyacinth absolute (Polak's Frutal Works) 0.45 Cardamine (Synarome) 4.22 Gardenia base 6.07 Galbanum oil (Robertet) 1.70 Oakmoss absolute superessence (Schmoller) 2.60 Base Tuberose 0.85 Rose base 0.45 Cardamon oil 1.70 Ambre 83 (de Laire) 10% 0.85 Grisambrol (Firmenich) 2.25 Ethyl vanillin 0.45 Musk ketone 4.22 Musk BRB (Rhône-Poulenc) 0.85 Coumarin 3.37 Cyclopentadecanolide 0.90 Civettone (Firmenich) 100% 0.90 Musk ambrette 4.22 Ambrophore (Firmenich) 2.87 Animalis (Synarome) 2.15 Aldehyde C.11 (undecylenic) 1.70 Aldehyde C.12 (lauric) 0.45 100.00

    Chypre with a peach note Copied from the site NIIR
    Ysminia (Firmenich) 3.00 Wardia (Firmenich) 2.00 Benzyl acetate 9.00 Orange oil, sweet 3.00 Jasmin absolute 1.25 Vetiveryl acetate 4.50 Cedryl acetate (Givaudan) 4.00 Sandalwood oil (Mysore) 2.50 Lavender oil, Barrême 42% esters 6.00 isoEugenol 1.75 Amyl salicylate 1.50 Bergamot oil 12.00 Lemon oil, Guinea 3.50 Methyl ionone 5.00 Ylang-ylang oil 3.50 Oakmoss decolorèe (Robertet) 3.50 Patchouli oil 2.50 Petitgrain oil, paraguay 4.00 Indole 0.15 Citral 0.50 Aurantiol 4.00 Dimethyl benzyl carbinol 3.00 Hydroxycitronellal 3.00 I-citronellol 2.00 Geranium extra 2.50 Fennel oil 0.75 Black pepper oil 0.75 Coumarin 2.60 Musk ketone 1.50 Civettone 0.20 Ambrettozone (Haarmann & Reimer) 0.40 Ambrarome Absolute (Synarome) 0.25 Clove bud oil 0.30 Aldehyde (pseudo) C.18, 10% 0.40 Aldehyde (pseudo) C.16, 10% 0.20 Aldehyde C.14 ('peach'), 10% 5.00 100.00
    Last edited by pkiler; 11th February 2014 at 03:47 PM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  3. #3
    gido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help needed

    You're missing amber from the equation. Add some labdanum or fixateur 505 or something similar to the moss and see. You also need a little musk.

    Remarkably, it's also missing from Paul's basic Chypre formula, though a little is provided by the bergamot drydown and perhaps a little from the clary sage (it depends.)

  4. #4
    Trufflehunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by gido View Post
    You're missing amber from the equation. Add some labdanum or fixateur 505 or something similar to the moss and see. You also need a little musk.

    Remarkably, it's also missing from Paul's basic Chypre formula, though a little is provided by the bergamot drydown and perhaps a little from the clary sage (it depends.)
    I was thinking the same thing, gido. Although, I mixed up a batch of the basic chypre last night and it's really quite beautiful and is still going strong this morning from the little drop I applied to the back of my hand. I thought the patchouli was overdosed, but I'll need more time to evaluate whether that is so or not. But, I'd be tempted to reduce the patchouli and replace it with some labdanum and, perhaps, a little ylang...

    Any oakmoss accords improve very significantly with time. I look forward to seeing what happens to this over the next few weeks and months. Thanks Paul for posting this!

  5. #5
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Help needed

    YW, I just posted the contents of my Chypre Formula Files, I don't claim them as mine...

    As always, Caveat Emptor.
    Or in this case, Caveat Pigmentarium :-)

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

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