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  1. #1

    Default I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Hi everyone

    I hope someone out there can share their wisdom. I predominantly work with naturals and have to create some intriguing concept aromas, the two I am struggling with, as I will need to include a proportion of synthetics for them to work are:

    Smell of a wine cellar (18c)


    Wet larder (storing salted meat, oysters, pickles, fish)
    (on my list so far: Seaweed absolute, ceps absolute?, Geosmin)

    I have some ideas rattling around on natural ingredients, but my knowledge of synthetics is more limited. Are there any synths out there that you would consider?

    Thank you for any nuggets of info!

    Tanya
    The Perfume Mistress

    www.theperfumemistress.com
    @perfumemistress

  2. #2

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Here's a couple of helpful threads, sirenofscent - alternatively, some members may be prepared quote for consultancy.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/374...Aromachemicals

    and see post #1
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/258...-12-2013/page2

  3. #3

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    I think some geosmin or mitti attar type is pertinent to the wine cellar too.

    Sorry, I have no olfactory experience witha larder though...

    But here in California, Yeah, we got Wine Cellars.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  4. #4

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Thank you so much, I do have some mitt attar - forgot about that one! I also have some Choyas which have a smokey, briney, sea-shore like note.
    Siren of Scent

  5. #5

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Welcome!

    Interesting ideas ...

    I have no experience with perfumes creation, but oysters and fish that's been away from the sea suggest the use of a touch of so called marine notes (calone, azurone, etc), which I don't like, but that's what they do.

    A recent hair product from Aesop, which is supposed to contain mostly naturals, had a strong marine smell, but I wouldn't know what the ingredients are. The listed ones are borage oil and petitgrain. Petitgrain doesn't smell like that. Perhaps borage oil? who knows
    http://www.aesop.com/usa/hair-care/groom/shine.html

    cacio

  6. #6

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!


  7. #7

    Lightbulb Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Quote Originally Posted by sirenofscent View Post

    Smell of a wine cellar (18c)


    Wet larder (storing salted meat, oysters, pickles, fish)
    (on my list so far: Seaweed absolute, ceps absolute?, Geosmin)
    Hi SirenOfScent,

    For the wine cellar, i could imagine the use of Costausol, Kohinool, Precyclemone beta and of course a touch of Damascone Beta.
    For the wet larder, indeed Seaweed abs, Geosmin, for ceps consider Costausol too, and Indole, and for the marine-note indeed Calone, Silvial and Ambroxan.

    I've once discarded a formula, because it reminded me of an old stinky cellar in a castle i visited; maybe it can be of use for you ;-)
    Here it is, it could be your starting point:

    Bergamot 12
    Grapefruit 8
    Calone 10% 2
    Paradisamide 10% 1
    Jasmin 1
    Basil 2
    Sage 1
    Cedar Atlas 1
    Vetiver 1
    Ambroxan 10% 1
    Suedrall 5% 1


    Good luck and let us know how things went!
    Last edited by jsparla; 13th February 2014 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Formula added

    Your'e welcome to visit my formulation blog, with a dozen of perfume formulations and accords to share!

  8. #8

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    So much citruses and it smells like a cellar?

  9. #9

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    So much citruses and it smells like a cellar?
    Hi Nizan,

    yep, that's exactly what i thought. However, the Basil and Vetiver overwhelm even this amount of citrus and the combination of this two oil bombs with Suedrall gives it a moist, damp and at the same time earthy dry, leathery, dusty, je-ne-sais-quoi atmosphere. It literally takes your breath away. Nasty stuff. Nothing to do with perfumery. It's an off-scent.

    Jeroen.
    Last edited by jsparla; 14th February 2014 at 07:35 AM.

    Your'e welcome to visit my formulation blog, with a dozen of perfume formulations and accords to share!

  10. #10

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Never smelled basil oil.. Sounds nifty! What type of basil gives this effect? (I'm always curious
    about off-scents).I also assume that's not one of those nice double distilled vetivers that smell like bubble gum..

  11. #11

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Hi Nizan,

    I don't know the origin of the Basil oil, i bought it some years ago from www.hekserij.nl, i can't compare but i think it's of a rather good quality. The vetiver is from John Steel, organic, Sri Lanka. Excellent stuff.

    Best, happy perfuming!

    Your'e welcome to visit my formulation blog, with a dozen of perfume formulations and accords to share!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Never smelled basil oil.. Sounds nifty! What type of basil gives this effect? (I'm always curious
    about off-scents).I also assume that's not one of those nice double distilled vetivers that smell like bubble gum..
    Basil oil smells a lot like the crushed leaves of basil (only less green), some has more of an anise bite to it but it smells medicinal, aromatic, warm and green, not sure how else to describe it.
    Justin E. Beasley

  13. #13

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    I particularly like holy basil. I think it has more estragol (if that's the one I'm thinking of) and it's spicier (eugenol?) than regular basil.

  14. #14

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Thanks for this link - great to have descriptions of the aroma-chemicals …hmm, Id like to get me some of that aphermate!

  15. #15

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Thanks for your suggestions, they are really helpful! Ive not heard of, or seen listed on my supplier's lists 'Costausol' (is this a synthetic derivative of Costus Root?) or 'Kohinool'. I had considered Calone, but I find it reminds me too much of laundry/ 'surfer dude' shower gel etc, think Ive been over-exposed to it!

    I have a 2 basil oils in my collection that I might practice with too - intriguing!!

    I shall post my results!!

  16. #16

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Quote Originally Posted by jsparla View Post
    Hi Nizan,

    yep, that's exactly what i thought. However, the Basil and Vetiver overwhelm even this amount of citrus and the combination of this two oil bombs with Suedrall gives it a moist, damp and at the same time earthy dry, leathery, dusty, je-ne-sais-quoi atmosphere. It literally takes your breath away. Nasty stuff. Nothing to do with perfumery. It's an off-scent.

    Jeroen.

    Sounds like it's close to Guerlain's Djedi...? Have you by chance made that comparison?

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  17. #17

    Default Re: I need help with synthetics for some concepts smells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Never smelled basil oil.. Sounds nifty! What type of basil gives this effect? (I'm always curious
    about off-scents).I also assume that's not one of those nice double distilled vetivers that smell like bubble gum..
    There are several Basil type EO's, some here have described well some of their attributes. Some of the sweeter basils contain a lot of Linalool also.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

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