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  1. #1

    Default Natural fruit notes

    Just curious, do absolutes/EOs/extracts from fruits exist for perfumery (nothing turned up with Google), or are we stuck with synthetics for fruit smells?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Hard to come by that are successful.

    You can always try tincturing freeze dried fruits. That's how the Naturals people get fruit scents...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  3. #3

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    There are very few fruit extracts that can be used in Perfumes, as most of them contain far too much water. Those that are available are very expensive, and/or don't smell like the original fruit.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Plus

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    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    I would think that the sugars would come with a dried fruit tincture too... wouldn't sugar be a bad thing?
    Justin E. Beasley

  5. #5

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Hermitage carry some fruit CO2's.. Though I think they're pretty volatile..
    Maybe you could find a natural isolate that smells fruity..?

  6. #6

    Cool Re: Natural fruit notes

    Hi Cuallito - do you have any specific fruit smells you would like to see in natural form, in mind?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Quote Originally Posted by HermitageOils View Post
    Hi Cuallito - do you have any specific fruit smells you would like to see in natural form, in mind?
    Not Cualito. But blackberry is currently of interest, and to a lesser extent banana. Plum, too. I believe you already have banana CO2. Also, all things that smell like adult alcoholic beverages such as cognac, wine, sherry, and all those variants (what's the liquor people drink with cigars?). Those are sort of fruit related.

    And as long as we have your attention, this isn't a fruit, but molasses is another natural extract I'd like to see, as well as carob and chicory. Any natural extract that is interesting is good, since most are hard to find. I did find carob (absolute?) in bulk online, from one specialist, but wasn't sure what the minimum was, probably a lot. (other than that, one of the biggest needs for us DIYers is a more complete selection of the good musks perfumers use, IMHO, but that's for another thread.).
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 17th February 2014 at 04:58 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Those that are available are very expensive, and/or don't smell like the original fruit.
    Expensive is expensive, of course.

    But a lot of naturals don't smell just like the things in nature, such as flower naturals. That doesn't make them any less useful or important. Rose EO (or otto, abs) doesn't smell like a rose in the garden. Same wih jasmine. Those are expensive too. But who wants to make a rose accord without some natural rose?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    It's brandy with cigars, Dr but you already knew that. Cognac is the best brandy in my opinion, I wish I had some!
    Last edited by Pears; 17th February 2014 at 08:09 PM.

  10. #10

    Cool Re: Natural fruit notes

    Confused, I have spelt the alias incorrectly? Dr Smell this is you via a second alias?? If I have caused offense here Iím sorry but I donít understand. Some of these aliases are a real mouthful to pronounce and for me it would seem spell. Where is Bob, Jim and Dave when you need them eh!

    Plum, very straightforward, I can offer two naturals here but wonít expand on the subject as Iím trying to tie the producer down on an exclusive basis. Extracts of Brandy, Whisky, Rum and so forth are all available. Cognac is easily available Ė white and green materials are available by most here in the UK. Carob, from memory is this a bean of some kind with a chocolaty scent, I think you see this in the health food shops. It must have been a while but I have had samples of this, reminded me a little of Cocoa and it was sticky as hell I think, again easy to obtain and I think it would be about £15 per 10ml. Firmenich where producing a tincture but have phased it out Ė or are in process of phasing it out.

    Blackberry, admit you have me on that one, if I have come across it I canít recall. You do have the blackcurrant abs, appreciate its different but it is another fruit easily available, the CO2 I tried was vile, like a cheap dilute juice drink from the supermarket and the Strawberry was equally awful. Blueberry extract, sampled that as well but the price made me question if anyone would buy it. Appreciate it will have been mentioned before but you do have the Strawberry leaf abs and even Peach and Apricot leaf absolutes if they are of interest. Coconut Absolute, Coconut CO2 as well. Robertet offer a sublime Pear compound if you fancy that. I think you have more options than you may realise. Also I know I say it a lot but Osmanthus Ė yes floral but it is saturated with fruity aromas, chiefly peaches and then you have what I class as the exotic osmanthus aromatic offering Ė blue lotus abs.

    Synthetic Musks, feel free to send a list across, one company has us by the balls for these materials so it is very expensive business for us due to quantities we have to buy but again feel free to send a list and Iíll see what can be done. We do also have a few new musk materials awaiting upload to the site though Ė need Chris to provide the write ups. Adam

  11. #11

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    This IS cuallito (qui-yee-toe, spanish nickname). I would like to see honeydew melon, and was going to ask for blueberry too, but you said it's not very good

  12. #12

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    So, To go back to your question, synthetic reproductions are often the key to these fruity scents. I can't speak about Adam's Plum items, per se, (I've been working on my own Plum base because I can't find a plum base I like for my purposes... Plum seems particularly less accessible than peach or apricot) but Fruity bases seem to be a pretty good answer to their more expensive natural counterparts. I konw an excellent Blackberry base. And amazingly, my Guava base is quite amazing, which considering it has Spanish lavender and some desert artemisia in it, it's quite funny that it got to Guava...

    It just takes time and experimentation to work out these fruity things. And then sometimes, suppliers can give you some nice ones you didn't expect.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  13. #13

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Hi Cuallito

    Water Melon extract - yes, aware it gets produced by a power house naturals company with operations throughout Europe and Africa. Emailed to express interest in a whole host of their materials but not heard back. I'll email again - they also produce a Kiwi natural extract. Please note though I have not sampled any of their materials and do not know the in's and out's of the materials in question yet. I would guess they will be of little to no use to perfumers at all - that is nearly always the case - but I'll find out as I want to know myself. Blueberry, no, I just said the price put me off, crazy money and I was not sure if I could retail such a material with any success. Plums - gorgeous, interesting extraction method and of excellent tenacity and alcohol soluble - as I say I want to get some exclusivety first - not holding my breath though! Also crazy sums of money and in honesty I think you will be better placed with synthetics in such instances everytime Cuallito. Peach though is the exception, that is an outstanding natural material, it will impress you greatly. You also have the Apple essential oil - sampled via Chris and it blew me away, you would have to ask him about the extraction method though - that was also crazy money. Adam

    PS - DRSMELLTHIS - I now realise you was just stating you are not Cuallito, not sure why but eitherway a blonde moment on my part!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    So exactly how expensive is "crazy money"?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Cuallito - Apple Essential oil - if I was retailing it - about £175 per 10ml. The plums and apricot & peach leaf abs about £35-£40 per 10ml. Strawberry leaf abs about £20-£25 per 10ml, Strawberry CO2 and Blackcurrant CO2 £25-£30 per 10ml. Again with exception to Peach CO2 I think you will find synthetics would do the job better for a fraction of the price.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Who buys this stuff!?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Humans.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Thanks, Hermitage, for your thorough replies. I will communicate with you further based on those. The plum in particular sounds interesting, as do a lot of aspects of your replies. I will get a list together. The fact you are willing to work with small independent perfumers is tremendous. I also like that you are taking care of yourself by being honest with us and communicating about your own cost/supply issues, as I respect that this is something all of us have to deal with. It's great to find win-win scenarios. Currently today, I'm pretty busy, but will definitely get back to you soon.

    I also appreciate that you are working with Chris in the spirit of connecting with the DIY, amateur, semi-pro, and small time pro crowd.

    What you are doing is advancing the art of perfumery, which would suffer if only the big houses could do it. Independent perfumers can focus more on the creative, passionate part, at least potentially; and that is a good thing. Thanks.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 18th February 2014 at 08:29 PM.

  19. #19

    Cool Re: Natural fruit notes

    DrSmellThis - without sounding as though we are embarking on a love fest I just wanted to say thank you, very kind words and most touching. On the Musk front just had a look at what I have here to upload and I have one called Muscenone - not sure if that's on your wanted musks list but it will be uploaded soon. I know someone here was asking for Methyl pamplemouse and that is also with me now. Lots of new materials so please do keep the faith as it will all be uploaded asap.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Thanks, Hermitage, for your thorough replies. I will communicate with you further based on those. The plum in particular sounds interesting, as do a lot of aspects of your replies. I will get a list together. The fact you are willing to work with small independent perfumers is tremendous. I also like that you are taking care of yourself by being honest with us and communicating about your own cost/supply issues, as I respect that this is something all of us have to deal with. It's great to find win-win scenarios. Currently today, I'm pretty busy, but will definitely get back to you soon.

    I also appreciate that you are working with Chris in the spirit of connecting with the DIY, amateur, semi-pro, and small time pro crowd.

    What you are doing is advancing the art of perfumery, which would suffer if only the big houses could do it. Independent perfumers can focus more on the creative, passionate part, at least potentially; and that is a good thing. Thanks.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Quote Originally Posted by HermitageOils View Post
    DrSmellThis - without sounding as though we are embarking on a love fest I just wanted to say thank you, very kind words and most touching. On the Musk front just had a look at what I have here to upload and I have one called Muscenone - not sure if that's on your wanted musks list but it will be uploaded soon. I know someone here was asking for Methyl pamplemouse and that is also with me now. Lots of new materials so please do keep the faith as it will all be uploaded asap.
    You probably know by now I have sent you a long list of desired fragrance materials. Please do not feel obligated to speed your way through the list, as I know you are busy. But I expect samples on my desk tomorrow. Ha ha. Rather than email you every week with something new, I thought i'd kill the suspense.

    Yes muscenone was one of the items, being the fascinating chemical it is.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Osmanthus absolute has a very powerful dried fruits / peach / abricot note with a lovely slightly leathery aspect as well. Davana essential oil does also smell of dried fruits.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Quote Originally Posted by HermitageOils View Post
    Synthetic Musks, feel free to send a list across, one company has us by the balls for these materials so it is very expensive business for us due to quantities we have to buy but again feel free to send a list and Iíll see what can be done. We do also have a few new musk materials awaiting upload to the site though Ė need Chris to provide the write ups. Adam
    Just a quick apology for the lack of write-ups - I actually have at least a dozen more half finished now so Iím getting there - in addition to musks we have a good range of fruity aroma-chemicals amongst them, several of which were particularly requested by people here, so hopefully some really interesting fruity accords should be being created very soon.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    Did anyone mention cassis? It smells like the real fruit (and a good kir) to me.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Natural fruit notes

    I tried different CO2 extracts, some are very good, some are not due to a canned type of scent. Personnally I have found all the reproduction too far from the truth. So I end up doing the tincture myself and have excellent results with cucumber, guava, strawberry and melon for example. However it is much more handy to have a CO2 extract and being by CO2 extracts or tinctures, I wouldn't expect the fruit scent to come as top note, they are not strong or volatile enough. But they blend perfectly in a composition. I do perfumes with alcohol and a high oil content and not to use as spray. In this case sugar is not a problem but if you look for a transparent, sprayable very diluted composition than tinctures won't work and CO2 extracts may not or you will have to use huge quantities. Hermitage Oils has a very good apple CO2 extract, banana. I am planning to try some fruits fermented liquors (maybe a 2-5% concentration in the perfume, I anyway always cut my perfumes with a 5% water) from Switzerland that is specialized in making Williamine from pears, plums, mirabelles (don't know the name in english) in a craft fashion (no colourants, artificial flavors or the like). So far I don't do fermentations myself because one need to be very knowledgeable on the processes to avoid mycotoxins amongst other and I am not equipped for that. If anyone tried it before let me know.

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