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  1. #1

    Default Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a safer substitute?

  2. #2
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Perhaps if you re-post this in the DIY Forum, one of our experienced and knowledgeable perfumers/members there might be able to provide you with a helpful and insightful answer. Just a thought.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Moved to the DIY forum to get better visibility
    Current UK sales: Diptyque Philosykos EdP

  4. #4
    Basenotes Junkie
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    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    NPE's are normally used as surfactants/solubilizers. The standard substitues are ethoxylated alcohol surfactants.

    What is your end use and what levels are you using NPE's at now?

    rick

  5. #5

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    I havenīt started using any surfactant yet. But, Iīve seen the pros and cons of using Renex and Iīd like to start right. Initially, the plan is to use it in difusers (room freshners). Any specific etoxylated alcohol you recommend? Thanks.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Iīd like to do that. Would you have a link, because I canīt find the DIY forum in this maze of foruns. thanks!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato Chiavoloni View Post
    I havenīt started using any surfactant yet. But, Iīve seen the pros and cons of using Renex and Iīd like to start right. Initially, the plan is to use it in difusers (room freshners). Any specific etoxylated alcohol you recommend? Thanks.
    Do you mean Reed Diffusers? If you do, the only solvents you need use are Dowanol DPM and Dowanol TPM . You do not need any surfactant or solubiliser, indeed these will clog the reeds and prevent the system fro working.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Well, we donīt call 'reed' diffusers here in Brazil (smiling), but I guess we are talking about the same thing. The thing is, without a surfactant or something like that, the product stays cloudy and unpleasant looking. Iīm not familiar with Dowanol DPM/TPM and doubt I could obtain it here. Is there a commercial name? But, surfactants are indeed used and donīt seem to cause any clogging - I use bamboo skewers and they work well. Although, if there is something better to use instead of surfactants, Iīm game. thanks!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato Chiavoloni View Post
    Well, we donīt call 'reed' diffusers here in Brazil (smiling), but I guess we are talking about the same thing. The thing is, without a surfactant or something like that, the product stays cloudy and unpleasant looking. Iīm not familiar with Dowanol DPM/TPM and doubt I could obtain it here. Is there a commercial name? But, surfactants are indeed used and donīt seem to cause any clogging - I use bamboo skewers and they work well. Although, if there is something better to use instead of surfactants, Iīm game. thanks!
    As I don't know what is in your fragranced product I cannot comment on the cloudiness. Apart from Perfume, what else is in your product? If there is any water, it will cause cloudiness. Take it out, it is not necessary. If there is Ethanol there, then there maybe water present; get a better grade of alcohol.

    Dowanol DPM is the commercial name; Google it and you will see.

    None of the reed diffuser fragrances I have made have ever been cloudy. And I don't know why the name Reed Diffuser is funny, but I may be missing something.

    If you are happy to use surfactants, then use them. Why are you asking if you know already?

    When I was a working Perfumer, we used to make Reed Diffuser fragrances in the following way. We would make a concentrated fragrance, using Dowanol as the solvent, and selecting those ingredients which were known to work in the system; no solids, or sticky resins, no Hedione. This fragrance was then diluted with a mixture of Dowanol DPM and Dowanol TPM; 20.0% fragrance, the rest the Dowanols. Before we started making these fragrances, we had, of course, done a lot of Raw Material testing to select those materials best suited for this application.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Hello, David, thanks for your reply. I see you have tons of experience to share and for that Iīm truly grateful. The reason Iīm hesitant to use certain surfactants, such as nonylphenol etoxylate, is that the ones Iīve seen been used the most here in Brazil have been banned in Europe and US due to their toxicity to people and environment. Yes, they work, but Iīd rather stay away from them; I think that they might be an overkill. I like the idea of not using water, which is about 30% of the formulations Iīve seen, is a good one. I was hoping to find a more environmentally-friendly product. I did find a maker of the Dowanol DPM (couldnīt find the TPM) here in Brazil and will keep it in mind. Iīm starting a new company and because of that I believe is the best opportunity to get certain things right from the get-go. And, sorry, I didnīt find the term reed diffuser funny, I was smiling because until then, I couldnīt find the corresponding term in English, that was all. Thanks for all your invaluable help!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    The Dowanols (there are many) are all are by the Dow Chemical company. If you can source DPM, I'm surprised you cannot find the others.

  12. #12
    Basenotes Junkie
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    Default Re: Etoxylated nonylphenol (Renex) does anyone know of a substitute?

    Brazil has a tricky import and distributor structure. I would think DMP/TPM would be manufactured there to save the import costs, but you never know.

    Renato- if you want to persist with ethoxylated alcohols you will have to find a local producer. I think huntsman produces in brazil (empilan KB series). Not sure on others. Like david said though, you don't need surfactant and it can hurt your system. DPM/TPM are normal, but you can also do systems with a water/ethanol base (heavy on the ethanol) if you formulate the fragrance around it.

    Rick

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