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  1. #1
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Ok, so I'm still working on a middle accord. I figured linalool is pretty essential to what I'm doing,
    but it's really imperceptible in the mix after about 8 hours.. Are there any alternatives? I've tried
    tetrahydrolinalool, but it was too volatile as well, and I can't really see how dihydromyrcenol would
    work..
    Creating Perfume's site says they'll have coranol soon, though its life on a strip is also pretty short -
    18 hours..

    Any tips would be appreciated

  2. #2
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Something that lasts for 18 hours on a smelling strip, I would regard as MIddle/Base note. I've always thought of Linalol as a Top/Middle note. Have you tried Ethyl Linalol? Or combining Linalol with Linalyl Acetate? DHM is, in my opinion more volatile than Linalol.

  3. #3
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Hmm.. Don't have ethyl linalool nor linalyl acetate. TGSC says that both linalool and ethyl linalool
    are 12 hours on a smelling strip, which was too short. I was thinking that the promised 18 hours
    won't be much different.. Linalyl acetate sounds like a nice option. Maybe I can back it up with
    something else to get that freshness back? (I'm assuming it's less fresh than linalool..)

    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Have you tried Thyme oil linalool chemotype? I've found it to have a good tenacity.

  5. #5
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Hmm.. I might. Need to buy some. But I'm working on a flower accord - won't the oil impart its hebral scent?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Nizan have you tried farnesol ? It has a similar freshness and does last a lot longer than linalool. I think there may be some IFRA restrictions if that matters to you

  7. #7
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    They don't..
    I'll try to get some

  8. #8
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    As a matter of interest Nizan, why would you want a fragrance to last for more than 18 hours? During a period of 18 hours I wash, at least once, so there is really no point in having a fragrance last so long.

  9. #9
    Basenotes Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    If you are using linalol for a floral composition I don't think I can help you. But if you use the Linalool / Linalyl Acetate twin for the bergamot effect, then u may want to to try the synthetic bergamot from Givaudan. I got it recently from PA and it is simply awesome and last for ages.

  10. #10
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    As a matter of interest Nizan, why would you want a fragrance to last for more than 18 hours? During a period of 18 hours I wash, at least once, so there is really no point in having a fragrance last so long.
    It's 18 hours on a strip (I think).. Never had anything survive on my skin for more than 12 hours on me, and
    what did was usually musks..

  11. #11
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    If you are using linalol for a floral composition I don't think I can help you. But if you use the Linalool / Linalyl Acetate twin for the bergamot effect, then u may want to to try the synthetic bergamot from Givaudan. I got it recently from PA and it is simply awesome and last for ages.
    Hmm.. Maybe I'll get it too, just for fun.. I'm working on a specific flower accord, though.

  12. #12
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    If you are using linalol for a floral composition I don't think I can help you. But if you use the Linalool / Linalyl Acetate twin for the bergamot effect, then u may want to to try the synthetic bergamot from Givaudan. I got it recently from PA and it is simply awesome and last for ages.
    Hmm.. Maybe I'll get it too, just for fun.. I'm working on a specific flower accord, though.

  13. #13
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    It's 18 hours on a strip (I think).. Never had anything survive on my skin for more than 12 hours on me, and
    what did was usually musks..
    Repeating my question; why would you want something to last that long?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Not everyone washes every day.

    Have you considered using Lyral or Hydroxycitronellal to add to the freshness?

  15. #15
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Renegade - will give those a try..
    David - I could be missing something.. I thought that 18 on a blotter would correspond to around 1 hour on the skin (or a bit more).. Would have been nice to have it there after 3 hours as well..

    Update - but on the other hand, it may be sufficient in this sense - since I'm just trying to figure out the accord, I can start with the "original" GC ingredients, and only later figure out how to prolong them..
    Last edited by Nizan; 24th February 2014 at 01:16 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Nizan, if it's for a floral accord then I'd give the Thyme linalool a miss, as it's too herbal. Lavender oil might be a better option, as it's high in linalool and linalyl acetate and smells very floral. Some people say that Lavender oil is fleeting but I've found it to be reasonably tenacious. It may depend on the species. As you can see, Adam has described the oils from Lavandula angustifolia as having good tenacity.

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/lavende...-essential-oil
    http://www.hermitageoils.com/lavende...-essential-oil
    http://www.hermitageoils.com/lavender-aoc-essential-oil
    Last edited by Pears; 24th February 2014 at 03:16 PM.

  17. #17
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    How about lavender absolute? Though it might have a lower content of linalool.. (Don't
    have any, so I can't attest to anything). I'll smell my lavenders to see if any of these is close
    to linalool..

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Nizan, I edited my post at the same time that you were posting, so you may want to read my post again. I don't have any Lavender absolute but it usually has more tenacity than the oil, as you suspected.
    Last edited by Pears; 24th February 2014 at 03:30 PM.

  19. #19
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Wow! Good call with the hydroxicitronellal!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Another possibility might be Petitgrain. It's high in linalool and linalyl acetate and according to Goodscents, has greater tenacity than Bergamot. Although I take their substantivity figures with a pinch of salt. Petitgrain from Paraguay supposedly has more tenacity than that from France.

    GCs for Petitgrain:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/gca/gc1033691.html
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/gca/gc1009872.html
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/gca/gc1545271.html
    Last edited by Pears; 24th February 2014 at 07:04 PM.

  21. #21
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Renegade - will give those a try..
    David - I could be missing something.. I thought that 18 on a blotter would correspond to around 1 hour on the skin (or a bit more).. Would have been nice to have it there after 3 hours as well..

    Update - but on the other hand, it may be sufficient in this sense - since I'm just trying to figure out the accord, I can start with the "original" GC ingredients, and only later figure out how to prolong them..
    I've never done a comparison between the same fragrance on smelling strip and on skin, but I would have thought that it would last longer than one hour on skin if it lasted 18 hours on strip.

  22. #22
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Wow! Good call with the hydroxicitronellal!
    But but but… Hydroxycitronellal smells nothing like Linalol. I don't understand!!

  23. #23
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Maybe I'll experiment with longevity of the pure thing on a strip vs. 10% on the skin..

    It doesn't? I know that when I smell something for the first time it often smells very
    different from how it smells two weeks later.. Some bizarre learning curve. Happened
    with cedryl acetate, and vertofix.. Maybe I'll try smelling it again in a day or to, because
    I did find similarities (it wasn't as fresh, for example)..
    Plus, I've caught a cold (yeah yeah, I know what you're going to say to that but I don't
    like taking breaks)..

  24. #24

    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    I was never of the impression linalool was fleeting. Perhaps there is another problem with the composition? After 12 hours or so, I personally only want my base accord, because of the body odor factor, and because the base accord is so nice by that time. But that's just me. Maybe you're wanting a more linear scent...

    Sometimes you just lose your nose for something due to acclimation and fatigue?

  25. #25
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    I think I should learn that material.. Did you ever figure out the factor between longevity on paper and on skin? I thought is was around 20.. (Just from experience with more volatile chems)..

    Anyhow, can't do nothing now, as I caught a cold, and only eugenol gets through..

  26. #26
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    I was never of the impression linalool was fleeting. Perhaps there is another problem with the composition? After 12 hours or so, I personally only want my base accord, because of the body odor factor, and because the base accord is so nice by that time. But that's just me. Maybe you're wanting a more linear scent...

    Sometimes you just lose your nose for something due to acclimation and fatigue?
    That's what I thought too (see my post above). An interesting exercise to compare the same material on smelling strip and on skin. I've never done it before.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 26th February 2014 at 04:01 PM.

  27. #27
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    As soon as my nose starts working again (if it'll ever) I'll try that..

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Take chicken soup regularly, Nirex. The glycine in the gelatine is an anti-inflammatory, analgesic and a mild sedative.

  29. #29
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    How I wish some chicken soup would magically appear now.. I have a pretty bachelor lifestyle, you see..
    However, I'm taking some tinctured plants, and using an essential oils mix (There's cardamon and thyme there, not sure what else) on my tounge.. Really frustrating staying home all day and stare at vials which I can't smell

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    You can use the bones, skin and sinew of any meat, Nirex. Your local butcher will usually give them to you for free. Pour over enough water to cover them, gently simmer for 2 hours and then pour through a strainer. Skim off the excess fat that rises to the surface, add finely chopped onion, carrot, herbs, salt and pepper and cook for a further hour. You can also add chile peppers if you wish to clear congestion.
    Last edited by Pears; 26th February 2014 at 02:24 PM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Nizan, take a 50mg Zinc supplement. In my experience my perception of smell increased 50% within a few minutes. Buy the Natures Bounty brand you won't regret it. Plus there are a ton of other benefits to zinc if you just google it. I cannot stress how much it increases your sense of smell. Its incredible.

  32. #32
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Really? Weird I'll try that after the cold..
    Pears - thanks, though I don't really cook

  33. #33

    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    One alternative is to attempt a linalool accord instead of a note. Using a variety of linalool-related chemicals, in other words, will make it more likely to smell something and reduce olfactory fatigue.

  34. #34
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    DrSmell - are you referring to me not smelling anything? I think it's coz of the cold, not because of olfactory fatigue.. But that's a good tip - kind of similar to the ones used to smell sandalwood molecules that ppl seem to be anosmic to.

  35. #35
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    But but but… Hydroxycitronellal smells nothing like Linalol. I don't understand!!
    So you'd say they're as different as cosmone from linalool?
    I got some of my sense of smell back - They don't smell very different, though they are different.. Linalool is more fresh, green and jumps into my nose, and hydrocitronellal is more floral and gentle..
    How about melafleur? Would it be a good substitute?

    I guess even though these aren't identical I could use them to prolong an impression for a longer time, no?

  36. #36
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    You can do what the hell you like Nizan; and if Hydroxycitronellal and Linalol smell similar to you, then to you they smell similar; to you. Hydroxycitronellal, to me, smells watery, Muguet, oily. Linalol, to me, smells rich, Freesia, part of Bergamot and Lavender; nothing like Hydroxycitronellal.

    Melafleur is another chemical used in the construction of Muguet; closer to Hydroxycitronellal, again nothing like Linalol. In my opinion.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    You could always spray the fragrance on your shirt collar instead of your skin, to make it last longer.
    Last edited by Pears; 28th February 2014 at 11:54 AM.

  38. #38
    Basenotes Junkie Nizan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Less volatile alternatives to linalool

    Maybe I'll wait with the hydroxi. till I'm sure about my perception, then..
    Pears - that will make everything stretch.. I think for now I'll just opt for linalool till I figure everything out..

    Weird update - they're starting to smell different to me. I'm even starting to lose track of the element I found similar in both.. Weird.
    Last edited by Nizan; 28th February 2014 at 02:40 PM.

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