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  1. #1
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    Default Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    This is an attempt to create a resource for anyone wanting to date their bottles of Paco Rabanne Pour Homme – specifically Eau de Toilette. This is the only fragrance I like to wear, and as the reformulations have now moved too far away from the original, I have been forced into buying-up old vintage bottles. I will give some tips about buying at the end. NB: If you just want to date your bottle quickly, without reading all the details, I have added a dating summary to the end of this post.

    I would like to say a special thank you to Andrθ Moreau, who has given me a lot of help, and the benefit of his experience. Thank you also, to the many other members who provided me with their bottle numbers, and other clues to help create this post.

    Although I have put in a lot of research, some of the dates are not 100% reliable. In time, with members using this post to date their bottles, we should get a more accurate picture. That is, if anyone can produce a bottle that doesn’t fit into my dating estimates, I will be able to make corrections, and this resource should become more reliable for everyone.

    A note about photos
    The images for the first 3 editions are from my own collection. They were taken under the same light, so this should help with comparing colours. I will update with better pics when I get the chance. The 4th edition photo is from an Ebay listing. The 5th & 6th edition images are just stock photos.

    Although there have been some minor packaging changes over the years, there are basically 6 distinct packaging versions of this fragrance. Although this does not necessarily mean 6 distinct formulations, a packaging change has tended to coincide with a change to the fragrance.
    __________________________________________________


    1973 - 1986 1st Edition (Original)

    h1st.jpg

    Bottle
    The good news is that this is the most easily recognisable of all the versions. The bottle will always have a metal ‘Pr’ logo stuck to the front of the bottle, and the font of the ‘r’ varies from all other versions, in that the top of the letter is more rounded and bulbous.

    The earlier bottles will never have ‘Eau de Toilette’ or the ‘Estimated’ sign on them, and instead of using a percentage (90%) for the alcohol content, an ordinal indicator is used as an abbreviation. This looks very similar to the degree symbol (90°). A slightly narrower font is also used for the later bottles. Andrθ has provided a detailed article with excellent photographs here, but he has mentioned that he will revise his dating at some point. Jason Newton’s bottle from June 1982 shows something in-between Andrθ’s bottles. It uses the newer ‘Eau de Toilette’ bottle marking, and ‘90%’ box marking. But it does not have the ‘Estimated’ sign yet.

    Box
    Again, the distinctive logo makes this version easy to spot. You should refer to Andrθ’s post for the best photographs, and information regarding these boxes.

    Spray
    Available as an atomiseur, and later as a vaporisateur. For anyone who is not aware, an ‘atomiseur’ (atomiser in English…or atomizer in American ) is quite different to a ‘vaporisateur’ (or ‘natural’ spray). The atomiseur works by having a pressurised gas inside the bottle, just like an aerosol. When the top is pressed down, the bottle will dispense just like any aerosol – for as long as you continue to hold it down. A vaporisateur, on the other hand, is the more familiar, modern version of a spray. This will dispense a set amount of fluid, regardless of how long you hold the top down. The link to Jason’s bottle above, shows how the atomiseur looks in this edition.

    The bottle used for the atomiseur version is a very different shape to the splash. It is a tall, narrow, 'squarish' shape. There are many photos available, Jason's bottle is a good example. The vaporisateur bottle is different again! Update: I have just come across a rare 'vaporisateur' in this edition - pics to follow shortly.

    Batch-Codes and Dating Evidence
    Andrθ has informed me that there were no batch-codes used before 1976. I have only one spray (no box) and one splash (pictured above) of this Edition. The box for my splash has ‘85E’ punched into the top of the box (outside). The fact that it’s punched into the card, removes the chance that there is a digit missing, so it is a genuine 3-Digit code, and it’s the only one I’ve seen so far. Generally, Paco Rabanne has used the first digit (and later the first 2 digits) to signify the year of manufacture, and the first letter to signify the month of manufacture, so in this case…May 1978. It cannot be May 1985, because the box has no writing on the back – which makes it an earlier version of the Original Edition (see Andrθ’s photos). See also, an article from Andrθ, regarding the EMB code on boxes.

    Although there is a shortage of bottles, to use as reliable evidence, I have stated the end of this Edition as 1986. This is because several people have reported seeing adverts dated 1984 and 1985 featuring this bottle, and also because 1986 was the year that the company claims to have changed the packaging. What we really need are more people to check their bottles for batch-codes. If you have a box and bottle with no batch-code, then it probably means you have one produced from 1973 to 1976. It also means that I really hate you!

    1984 - 1992 2nd Edition

    h2nd.jpg

    Bottle
    More good news here – these bottles will always have raised glass underneath the ‘Pr’ logo. This, again, makes them easily distinguishable from all other editions! Apart from this raised logo, the bottles are almost completely flat on the front and back, ever so slightly concave in the middle. This is in contrast to later bottles, which are always convex. The ‘Pr’ logo uses a different ‘r’ to the Original edition, and this font was not changed again until the 5th Edition. Notice the use of different coloured print on the bottle. The one you see pictured tends to be the standard format for splash bottles - white logo and name, then black text for the rest of the details. However, I have seen just a few that have a black logo, and so far they have always been 60ml bottles. I initially thought that this was a special size that was only available in special gift sets with other toiletries, but I have also seen them boxed alone.

    Box
    A slightly darker sage green is used than for the 1st Edition, and with the new ‘r’ in the ‘Pr’ logo. The logo is slightly smaller than on the 1st Edition. ‘eau de toilette’ appears on the top of the box. On the back, at the bottom, should appear a small box of French text. This states that the product may only be sold by authorised Paco Rabanne dealers. Barcodes came into use on these boxes in 1990, so look for this as an indicator of a later product – it will always be located on the underneath of the box. You can see a comparison of the box colours here.

    Spray
    Comes in the same shaped bottle as the previous edition, but this time with the raised glass behind the logo. The sprays come with a black logo and black text – not following the same format as the splash. This edition is available in both ‘atomiseur’ and ‘vaporisateur’. The latest atomiseur I have come across carries the code 9B05 (Feb 1989). So I believe the atomiseur was discontinued around 1989. Apparently the prohibition of CFCs caused the demise of the atomiseur. But we still have aerosols in other applications, and they are perfectly legal. So, if the company had wanted to continue producing their spray as an ‘atomiseur’, I think they probably could have. My own opinion about the change is simply that it must be cheaper to produce bottles that are not filled with pressurised gas.

    Batch-Codes and Dating Evidence
    I have only seen 4-digit codes used for this edition, and the format is number-letter-number-number. The first digit refers to the year of manufacture, the second digit refers to the month, and the last two digits probably refer to internal production lines. The letter ‘I’ is not used, as it looks like a 1 - so the month range is A-M.
    Update: Thank you to eaglesgift, who has shown us a 2nd edition box with a 5-Digit code embedded!! (see post #38 of this thread). 5-Digit codes were used in the future '3rd Edition' but this evidence shows that there was a crossover period of using new codes on old packaging. Eaglegift's code is 91B08.

    If we believe the 1st edition was manufactured until 1986, then it would make sense that 1986 be the first year of production for the 2nd Edition. However, Andrθ recently showed me a 240ml splash bottle dated 1984!! This bottle also had all-black logo & lettering. This raises several questions, the first of which is ‘What the hell is going on here?!’. Perhaps one single bottle is not the most overwhelming evidence – and the ‘incorrect’ colours could signify a fake. The batch-code was printed on the underneath of the bottle (unusual) and was in large white font (also very unusual). I have no other good explanation, except that there may have been an overlap of 2 years, during which time the new edition was trialled in some markets. Hopefully, people will come forward with more bottles dated 1984-1986 so that we can pin down the dates with more accuracy.

    The latest bottle I have seen is from August 1990, but several people have reported advertisements in 1991 using the 2nd edition, so we have to assume that this bottle was still being manufactured in 1991. You can see a good example of this here. Update: Jason Newton has found an advert dated Aug 1992, still showing the 2nd edition bottle - end date for this edition has been revised.

    To me, it seems quite ridiculous to use a single digit for identifying the year of manufacture. Unless a company has a plan to produce a range for less than 10 years, (which seems strange) it cannot be a reliable system. But as it happens, Paco Rabanne did not produce this edition for 10 years, so it shouldn’t be an issue when identifying bottles. By the 3rd edition, someone finally had some sense, and this format was changed!

    Update: Purchased a 240ml bottle with Batch-code 5F14 (June 1985). The code was punched onto the bottom of the box, and printed in large white font on the underneath of the bottle. Only other time I have seen this white printing on the underside, was from the 1984 bottle - this makes the 1984 bottle less likely to be a fake. Update: And another purchase of a 120ml splash with '8D11' painted in white on the bottom of the bottle.

    1991 - 1995 3rd Edition

    h3rd.jpg

    Bottle
    This bottle will have a flat painted logo on the bottle. The shape of the bottle is now convex (it tapers in at the edges, and bulges out at the centre). Logo and text should all appear in white.

    Box
    The box should be the same colour as the 2nd edition. Note that the logo is quite a bit smaller than on the previous edition. In 1993 Paco Rabanne joined the Green Dot Scheme, and this symbol should appear on the back of the box from around this time. The date of 1993 is based on the fact that I have bottles from Dec 1992 and Jan 1993. Neither of these boxes carries the Green Dot. All boxes should have a barcode on the underneath.

    Spray
    These should all be ‘vaporisateurs’. The bottle shape has now changed from being quite square, to being the same shape as the splash bottle.

    Batch-Codes and Dating Evidence
    This edition introduces a much nicer dating system. A 5-digit system is introduced, with the first 2 digits being the year of manufacture, then a letter to signify the month as before, and then 2 more digits which again, must be internal descriptors. Dating tends to be more reliable too, in that every single bottle and box I have bought, has a date on it.

    I have several bottles of this edition, and the earliest one has the code 91M04 (Dec 1991). The last date of manufacture has been quite easy to pin down. The latest bottle I’ve seen is dated November 1995, and I have seen a 4th Edition dated April 1996. This also ties in with an E-mail I got from the manufacturer, to say the change was made in 1995.

    1996 - 2002 4th Edition

    h4th.jpg

    Bottle
    This is a difficult edition for me to review, as I do not own any bottles of it, and they seem quite rare to encounter! If you have one of these, hopefully you can provide more details. The most obvious difference is that the bottle uses a darker glass than previous editions. The text and logo on the bottle should all be white (remember, we are only discussing EdT here!). The Pr logo is smaller than all previous editions. The logo and title appear near the top of the bottle, then there is a large gap between that and the text at the bottom. The bottle pictured above is from June 2000 and has ‘EAU DE TOILETTE’ at the bottom of the bottle. The word ‘Paris’ appeared on a bottle that I have seen from April 1998, but as you can see, it is not on the bottle pictured. That bottle is from June 2000, and I don’t think the word ‘Paris’ has appeared on the front since the late 1990s.

    Box
    The box colour is a different green to the 3rd Edition, and here is an example of both boxes that have been photographed under similar light conditions. The codes for these boxes are (left)95F19 and (right)96D14. The boxes are for different sized bottles, but still, we can see a smaller logo is used on the more recent box. Also note the gap between the name of the fragrance, and the other text at the bottom. This is replicated on the bottle.

    You can see that the box from June 2000 is a different colour again, from the box pictured on the right here. We definitely need more examples to get a clearer picture of when these changes were made!

    Spray
    Always’ vaporisateur’ of course. Spray and splash bottles are identical in shape. Spray bottle can be seen above.

    Batch Codes and Dating Evidence
    These follow the same system as the 3rd Edition.

    The start date for this edition is explained at the end of the 3rd edition. The end date is based on a major reformulation of Paco Rabanne. More information below!

    2002 - 2010 5th Edition

    05.jpg

    Bottle
    The words 'Paco Rabanne' appear twice on the bottle now. Once in the name of the fragrance, and then again as the name of the perfumery at the bottom of the bottle. A new font used for the ‘r’ of the ‘Pr’ logo. It now becomes totally flat along the top, and the same font is carried over to the 6th Edition. The contents of the bottle should be very different, following the reduction of oakmoss. See ‘Reformulations’ below.

    Box
    This box is very distinctive from all previous versions. It is a much more modern-looking shiny emerald-green, with embossed silver logo and text. Both above bottle changes are duplicated on he box - logo font and double 'Paco Rabanne'.

    Spray

    The same bottles are used for splash and vaporisateur versions. Spray version is pictured.

    Batch Codes and Dating Evidence

    Unfortunately, Paco Rabanne has moved back to dating the year with a single digit!?! The format is now 5 numerals. The first will tell you the year of manufacture, the next 3 digits will tell you the day of manufacture (0-366), and the last digit will be the production line. (Thanks again to Andrθ for this information ) So, as an example….82711 would be, 2008 – 271st day of the year – Production line 1. NB We have found bottles from 2005 and 2006 that use a 4-digit numerical sequence, where the first digit still relates to the year. E.g. 5601 = 2005. So, the 5-Digit coding probably came in from 2007 or 2008. Hopefully some users will have bottles dated from 2002-2008 so that we can verify this.

    The date of introduction for this edition is based on the reformulation date. New guidelines laid down in July 2001 by the IFRA forced manufacturers to reformulate many of their products. This change would have come into effect shortly after the rulings. The date for the end of this edition is clear, as explained below.

    2010 – 6th Edition (Current)

    06.JPG

    Bottle
    Well, the good news is that you will recognise this bottle easily. It has a very large Pr logo that I don’t particularly like. And that is where the good news for this edition ends!

    Box
    The same emerald-green box is used, as in the previous edition, but with the new logo on it.

    Spray
    I think the spray tends to be more ubiquitous these days. I haven’t seen a dedicated splash version, except for the optional ‘splash/spray’ versions that come with a separate atomiser that you can insert into the bottle. Then again, I have not looked closely at this Edition, because it’s not what I consider to be ‘Paco Rabanne Pour Homme’.

    Batch Codes and Dating Evidence
    5-Digit numerical codes, as with the 5th Edition.

    Evidence for dating is pretty straightforward. The company claims to have changed the packaging in 2010. This is supported by the date of many posts right here on the forum, as people discovered this ‘new’ edition.
    __________________________________________________


    Finding your Batch-Code
    Refer to the above sections to see which type of batch-code your Paco Rabanne should carry. The batch-code should be punched onto the outside of the box. By ‘punched’ I mean that it is cut into the card, and not printed onto it. This most often occurs on the bottom flap, but I have also seen it on top. Although punching is the most common method, I have seen a bottle with a printed batch-code! Why can’t they just have a fixed pattern for this stuff huh??

    Batch-codes on bottles will usually appear on the back of the bottle, near the bottom. The number will actually be printed onto the glass, and is often quite difficult to read. I have also seen numbers on the underneath of the bottle.

    Unfortunately, I have come across products that only have the number on the bottle, or on the box. But the ideal is that the box and bottle should both carry the same number, and this does happen too. I believe the legal requirement is that the batch-code should appear on the outside of the box. But in my experience it is the bottle that most often has a number on it, and it is more unusual to find a numbered box containing an unnumbered bottle.

    Sometimes there are printed codes on the inside of the box – as you can see here. But I have asked Andrθ about these, and he has advised me that they are not batch-codes. If anyone has any more information about these numbers, it would be good to learn about them.

    Eau de Toilette - After Shave - Deodorant

    In earlier editions, Eau de Toilette is not always marked on the product. However, After-Shaves and Deodorants, which used identical bottles to the EdT for editions 1 & 2, should always be marked with this information on the bottle and box. In case there is any doubt, alcohol content can be used as a guide. EdT should be 90%, Deodorant 91%, and After-shave 58%. There is only one exception I have come across, and that was a 1st edition atomiseur that was marked as 92°!! I wonder if anyone has seen other exceptions?

    Reformulations
    This is a tricky thing to write about. To begin with, one person’s sense of smell will be different to another, so all ‘opinion’ has to be taken as just that – unless there is some concrete evidence of reformulation.

    I have done several trials of the first 3 versions and found very little difference. The problem is…because of the age of this scent, even 2 bottles of the identical vintage can never be identical. Unless the bottles have been stored under exactly the same conditions (i.e. side by side!) then there has to be some kind of variation. In my case, I have purchased bottles from different parts of the world, which means different climates, temperatures, humidity levels, obviously totally different storage conditions etc. So, comparing the bottles I have is not particularly useful. Even if there had never been a reformulation to PRPH, a 40 year old bottle is going to smell different to a 20 year old bottle, so testing bottles in retrospect is not a reliable way to indicate that a reformulation has taken place.

    Ericrico has written extensively on the forum regarding the intricate details of how the fragrance has varied over the years, and it is worth reading his posts for an expert opinion.

    Here is what I am confident about. Paco Rabanne Pour Homme has undergone at least two significant reformulations over the years - and probably some minor ones too. One major reformulation definitely took place in 2001/2002, after manufacturers were forced, by the IFRA, to reduce the amount of oakmoss used in their fragrances (July 2001). This required a change to the PRPH recipe, which has always relied heavily on this particular ingredient. Another major reformulation took place to coincide with the latest packaging of 2010, and will be immediately obvious to anyone comparing Editions 5 & 6 side-by-side.

    If you were to line up all 6 versions and test them, you would find that there has been a steady, progressive departure from the original, into a totally different fragrance. If I had to rank the size of these changes in numerical terms, it would look something like this:

    1st Edition – 100%
    2nd Edition – 97%
    3rd Edition – 92%
    4th Edition - Unknown
    5th Edition – 50%
    6th Edition – 20%

    Meaning that the 6th edition has something like 20% of the characteristics of the Original, and that there is only a 5% difference between the 2nd & 3rd editions. Again, these kinds of comparisons are totally subjective, and in the case of a 5% difference, this could easily be put down to bottle-variance, and not necessarily a reformulation. I am not totally convinced that there was any change to the recipe from 1st to 2nd Editions. However, there is evidence of a reformulation for the 3rd Edition. 2001 was not the first time that the IFRA had put a restriction on oakmoss, as can be seen in one of Andrθ’s posts here.

    Tips for buying
    I bought almost all of my bottles from Ebay, and had them shipped in from all over the world. I have to say that I was not optimistic about how well the product would have lasted, but I can say after purchasing 15 separate bottles, only one of them was disappointing enough for me to regret having made the purchase. What I learned from this particular sale was NOT to buy a bottle that was without its box. The thing that will help a fragrance to deteriorate quickest is sunlight. Although a box is no guarantee that the fragrance has aged well, If the seller doesn’t have a box, there is more chance that the bottle has been exposed to sunlight at some point over the years. Of course, you could get lucky and find one that has been stored well - but without a box, the odds against it. The next most damaging thing is heat – which is what makes the sunlight so bad. Leaving a bottle in direct sunlight will not only expose it to harmful UV-rays, but also to an increased temperature. So, store your bottles in a cool dark place, along with the potatoes, dynamite, gunpowder etc.

    When purchasing bottles that are not full, beware that the remaining fluid in the bottle is being exposed to the air that is in there too. This reduces the chances of the fragrance having held up well, and I wouldn’t buy one of these unless the price was very low indeed, or the bottle itself had some unique value to it. Besides, when you are paying for postage, the larger and fuller the bottle, the cheaper your scent will work out.

    In the case of ‘atomiseurs’, note that some people have had the nightmare experience of a bottle dispensing all of its gas, (and a large amount of the fragrance) because of a faulty atomiser. I have not had this happen to me, and I think it is very rare. But in a case where you have a choice of similar age bottles, I would always recommend the ‘vaporisateur’. You can search the forum to read about those horror stories. I think there is also an argument that in two bottles of the same volume, one should get more fluid in a vaporisateur, because there is no gas being stored inside the bottle. Please comment if you know more about the science of this.

    New legislation has been introduced in the US, and perhaps in some other countries, to prohibit overseas shipping of any product that contains alcohol. Because of this, you might have issues when ordering from the US.

    My advice for ‘best buy’ is the 3rd Edition. Bottles are available in abundance, and although it might not be exactly the same as the original, the difference is slight, and not in any way negative (at least in my opinion). The fact that it is newer, also means there has been less time for it to deteriorate, and the availability of bottles means that prices are not too high either. Another advantage is that coding is clearer and more reliable.

    Happy bidding! (Just don’t dare outbid me please )


    Martin


    Quick-Reference Dating Summary

    Original 1973 - 1986___2nd Ed. 1984 - 1992 ___3rd Ed. 1991 - 1995
    h1st.jpgh2nd.jpgh3rd.jpg

    4th Ed. 1996 - 2002___5th Ed. 2002 - 2010 __6th Ed. 2010 - Present
    h4th.jpg05.jpg06.JPG
    Last edited by Martin_UK; 18th April 2015 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Dating Summary added

  2. #2

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Good work, Martin.

  3. #3
    Dependent
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Hats off!
    Chapeau!
    Hail to the Master !
    Bravo!
    Raiders of the Lost Scent: Journey in the Realm of Lost Perfumes
    http://raidersofthelostscent.blogspot.it.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Great stuff and awesome post about this magnificant fragrance!! Thanks!

    I got 5 different variations of Paco Rabanne starting with original vintage, vintage with edt 90% Vol. on the box, the third editon as well as two bottles of the fifth till the newest soapy incarnation of current formulation. Nothing can beat the first three versions imo!
    My Top '10' : (In no particular order)

    - Dolce & Gabbana: Pour Homme (vintage)
    - Annick Goutal: Ambre Fetiche
    - Loewe: Esencia/Pour Homme/Solo
    - Davidoff: Leather Blend Edp
    - Revillon R
    - MPG: Santal Noble
    - Acqua di Parma: Colonia Intensa Oud
    - Histoires de Parfums: 1740 Marquis de Sade
    - Pal Zileri: Cuoio
    - YSL: Kouros (Fraicheur)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Thanks for sharing the infos, regrading a great fragrance.

  6. #6
    Dependent martinijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Just bumping this as I just found a half full first formulation bottle for £10.
    No idea if it's been stored properly but was worth a punt at that price.
    will update when it arrives.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Very helpful information. Thank you.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  8. #8
    Dependent martinijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I thought it was worth a bump just for the info in the OP.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Excellent information, thanks, great for reference.

  10. #10

    Default Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Thanks to this guide, a while back I was able to find a brand new 50ml bottle from 1994. So so good!

    Thanks Martin_UK!

  11. #11
    Super Member NickZee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Thank you so much for this brilliant information. I love this fragrance in its current form, so I look forward to trying older bottles. Long live Fougeres!

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    ........
    Last edited by RedRaider430; 24th March 2015 at 07:42 AM.
    Basenotes sales: Many collectible/discontinued CREEDs (Vintage Tabarome, Citrus Bigarrade, Selection Verte), Helmut Lang Cuiron, Bond No. 9 Hamptons, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Essence de Cerruti, numerous popular SAMPLES! http://www.basenotes.net/threads/340...EELEY-SAMPLES!

    Offsite sales: CREED WINDSOR, Vintage Tabarome, Selection Verte, Citrus Bigarrade), Tom Ford Noir de Noir, By Kilian Prelude to Love, Helmut Lang Cuiron, Bond No. 9 Hamptons, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Essence de Cerruti, numerous popular SAMPLES! http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=260 and http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=626

  13. #13

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Thank you for those informations

  14. #14

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Many thanks - being both born in 1973 it's a special scent for me too and a perennial favourite - excellent post!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Wonderful thread OP - great insights...

    See below an older thread with ericrico's input - I bought my vtg Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (probably the oldest version) based on this thread.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/296...nne-Pour-Homme

  16. #16

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I actually got a bottle from the Early Eighties and one from about 1993 based on this excellent thread. A godsend if you want to find a early vintage as their are so many formulations of it over the years. I love that green honey mossy drydown of the vintage, great scent!
    "There's No School Like The Old School."

  17. #17

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Saw the modern version lying on it's side, selling for £13.99 at the weekend. So sad.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    Saw the modern version lying on it's side, selling for £13.99 at the weekend. So sad.
    Agree, Quorum also shares the same fate, although Quorum in it's current version is much better than the Paco Rabanne...They should just discontinue instead of trying to fill up bottles that don't smell like how they used to. Both these cologne's are lost w/o the oakmoss.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin_UK View Post
    1984 - 1992 2nd Edition



    Batch-Codes and Dating Evidence


    If we believe the 1st edition was manufactured until 1986, then it would make sense that 1986 be the first year of production for the 2nd Edition. However, Andrθ recently showed me a 240ml splash bottle dated 1984!! This bottle also had all-black logo & lettering. This raises several questions, the first of which is ‘What the hell is going on here?!’. Perhaps one single bottle is not the most overwhelming evidence – and the ‘incorrect’ colours could signify a fake. The batch-code was printed on the underneath of the bottle (unusual) and was in large white font (also very unusual). I have no other good explanation, except that there may have been an overlap of 2 years, during which time the new edition was trialled in some markets. Hopefully, people will come forward with more bottles dated 1984-1986 so that we can pin down the dates with more accuracy.
    Hello Martin,
    It seems like Andre is not the only person with such a "curious" bottle. I also own a bottle like the one you describe above. It is a splash version of 120ml.
    The batch code is printed with white letters and numbers at the bottom of the bottle (as well as "pressed" at the bottom of the box) and according to check cosmetics (which very often offer mistaken informations) the perfume was manufactured in 2006 which obviously is wrong. Both bottle and box are in perfect condition.
    What do you think of that? I do not think that those bottles are fakes, it is enough if you smell the content to realise that and i was "raised" with Paco Rabbane (along with Kouros, Azzaro, Fahrenheit and few other "giants") so i know how to tell when i smell the original.

    P.S: How to you know that Andre's bottle was made in 1984? Where did you find this information on the bottle?
    Last edited by Monsieur Montana; 25th March 2015 at 08:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Thank you all for the kind words. It's satisfying to know that this guide has been useful to so many people.

    Monsieur Montana, I've been through all my archives, and I haven't been able to find an image of the bottle - I think it related to a bottle that was on sale at eBay. However, I managed to find a message from Andre that related to that bottle. The code was 4J20, where the 4 relates to the year. Because the bottle was of the '2nd Edition' type, then it had to be from 1984, rather than 1974 or 1994.

    What's the code on your bottle?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    On my bottle the code is 6A02
    Last edited by Monsieur Montana; 25th March 2015 at 05:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Does your bottle look like the the one on the left?

    Colour.jpg

  23. #23

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    tmp_23925-20150325_164812730701657.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Monsieur Montana View Post
    Hello Martin,
    It seems like Andre is not the only person with such a "curious" bottle. I also own a bottle like the one you describe above. It is a splash version of 120ml.
    The batch code is printed with white letters and numbers at the bottom of the bottle (as well as "pressed" at the bottom of the box) and to check cosmetics (which very often offer mistaken informations) the perfume was manufactured in 2006 which obviously is wrong. Both bottle and box are in perfect condition.
    What do you think of that? I do not think that those bottles are fakes, it is enough if you smell the content to realise that and i was "raised" with Paco Rabbane (along with Kouros, Azzaro, Fahrenheit and few other "giants") so i know how to tell when i smell the original.

    P.S: How to you know that Andre's bottle was made in 1984? Where did you find this information on the bottle?
    I second this, i have a bottle and box with the code 4012 which looks the same, checkcosmetic says 2006 or something. Also shares what i thought was abnormal black raised letter r on bottle.


    I want to express my thanks to Matin as well. Without this guide I would never have found a true first edition, nor a love of this fragrance!
    Last edited by Mountainbikesandwatches; 25th March 2015 at 09:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I second this, i have a bottle and box with the code 4012 which looks the same, checkcosmetic says 2006 or something. Also shares what i thought was abnormal black raised letter r on bottle.


    I want to express my thanks to Matin as well. Without this guide I would never have found a true first edition, nor a love of this fragrance!
    Thank you for the thanks - you're very welcome!

    About your bottle - are you sure it's 4012 and not 4D12? The 2nd digit should be a letter, and refer to the month of manufacture.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Good question, I'm a little slow. Definitely could be a D. Checked that number on cosmeticcheck, May 2012 lol. Tried an O instead of zero, that brought back an error.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin_UK View Post
    Does your bottle look like the the one on the left?

    Dear Martin,


    Yes mine is the same.
    If you need more help let me know.

    Regards,

    MM
    Last edited by Monsieur Montana; 26th March 2015 at 10:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Hello Monsieur,

    But if you look carefully, you can see the paint is a totally different colour. On the left bottle, the P is black and on the right bottle it's white - it's definitely not metallic on this edition.


    Martin

  28. #28

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin_UK View Post
    Hello Monsieur,

    But if you look carefully, you can see the paint is a totally different colour. On the left bottle, the P is black and on the right bottle it's white - it's definitely not metallic on this edition.

    Martin

    Is it a bottle you own or seen personally?
    Last edited by Monsieur Montana; 26th March 2015 at 10:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I own the one on the right, not the one on the left. But I have photos from all different angles, and the logo is definitely black.

    All 2nd Edition bottles have a painted logo on the raised glass.


    EDIT: here is another example of strange colours on a bottle:

    Unusual 60ml (2FL OZ) d.jpg
    Unusual 60ml (2FL OZ) c.jpg
    Unusual 60ml (2FL OZ) b.jpg
    Unusual 60ml (2FL OZ) a.jpg

    But you can clearly see that the logo is painted on, and is black again.
    Last edited by Martin_UK; 26th March 2015 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Addition of photos

  30. #30

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin_UK View Post
    I own the one on the right, not the one on the left.
    I own the one on the left
    Last edited by Monsieur Montana; 26th March 2015 at 10:41 AM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Martin, you are a very patient and deserve a medal for this thread. I would buy you a beer if I could, well done!
    "There's No School Like The Old School."

  32. #32

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Hi Martin - just a quick note that I bought rare 1996 - 2002 4th Edition bottle earlier this month, and while being fantastic in smell, it seems to be lacking in longevity department. It lasts three - four hours tops, and the strength drops drastically in half an hour. Is this normal from your experience? My batch is 01L18

    This is the picture from "Today I bought, March" thread -


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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Hi Russlan,

    I did manage to buy a coupe of these, but I haven't worn it to be honest. Personally, I have difficulty in judging longevity, so I'm not the best person to ask. I find that 3mins after I put the cologne on, I can't smell it any more!

    Anyway, your feeback is useful, as we all need more information on that particular edition!


    Martin

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Very informative. Thanks!

  35. #35

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Fantastic work. For my PR fix, I think I would go to Bond No. 9 Great Jones these days.
    Current faves: Aventus, Eau Des Baux, Green Irish Tweed, MFK Masculin Pluriel, Royal Oud

  36. #36

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin_UK View Post
    Hi Russlan,

    I did manage to buy a coupe of these, but I haven't worn it to be honest. Personally, I have difficulty in judging longevity, so I'm not the best person to ask. I find that 3mins after I put the cologne on, I can't smell it any more!

    Anyway, your feeback is useful, as we all need more information on that particular edition!


    Martin
    This may be my case too - that I just don't feel the fragrance after some time, need to attract a third party to judge

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by martinijo View Post
    Just bumping this as I just found a half full first formulation bottle for £10.
    No idea if it's been stored properly but was worth a punt at that price.
    will update when it arrives.
    It arrived and I'm so happy to smell the real stuff again after a 30 year gap.
    The drydown is really to savour and the difference between the last bottle I have (which is the one before the current version) is pretty stark.
    A bit disappointed there's no code imprinted on the glass as there's no box with it,so I only know it's probably 35 to 40 years old, and I'm also curious if it might have lost a touch of potency , being a half full 120 ml splash bottle -maybe someone in uk with a fullish bottle could judge if I send them a few mls (or swop a few mls )
    Anyway a "blind buy" that came up trumps and thanks to Martin, Ericrico and Andre for the communal heads up

  38. #38

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I have a 2nd edition bottle but it has a 5 digit batch code stamped into the bottom of the box, not 4 as is stated above. The code is 91B08, so it looks to be in the same format as the 3rd edition ones. However, it has the larger 'R' on the box and the raised glass behind the 'R' on the bottle so it isn't a 3rd edition. Maybe they started to use the same type of batch codes as the 2nd edition was being phased out and the 3rd edition brought in?

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesgift View Post
    I have a 2nd edition bottle but it has a 5 digit batch code stamped into the bottom of the box, not 4 as is stated above. The code is 91B08, so it looks to be in the same format as the 3rd edition ones. However, it has the larger 'R' on the box and the raised glass behind the 'R' on the bottle so it isn't a 3rd edition. Maybe they started to use the same type of batch codes as the 2nd edition was being phased out and the 3rd edition brought in?
    This sounds like an interesting one. The bottle definitely sounds like a 2nd Edition, but are you certain about the box? Perhaps you could post a photo of the box. Does it have a Green Dot, or a bar code? If it's definitely a 2nd Edition box, it will be the first one I've ever known to have the 5-Digit batch code. I suppose the best explanation would be that there was a cross over of using older packaging durng the new edition

  40. #40

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I'm fairly certain, yes. The logo is definitely the right size I think.

    (There's no green dot on the back and no barcode.)

    I took these pictures with my iPad and haven't resized them so I hope they're ok to post.

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    Hopefully you can make out the batch code in the second one.
    Last edited by eaglesgift; 17th April 2015 at 02:39 AM.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I own and love the current version. It is well suited to double-spaced application and delivers a wonderful dry-down.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Well, you're absolutely right eaglesgift - that's a 2nd Edition Box & bottle with a 3rd Edition dating code!

    I will make some adjustments to my dating guide, to take into account this new discovery.

    There are already some overlaps in my dating guide. For example the 1st edition was manufactured, we think, until 1986, but we have found at least one 2nd edition bottle manufactured in 1984. One explanation is that the start/end dates for the different editions vary from market to market. Perhaps it will not be possible to have a complete dating guide on a worldwide basis, and that dating guides will need to be arranged into different international markets.

    Did you buy your bottle new? If not, do you know which country it was originally intended for?

    Update: I have also added a quick reference summary to the bottom of my original post.
    Last edited by Martin_UK; 18th April 2015 at 09:52 AM.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Hi Martin,

    No I didn't buy it new although it was unused when I got it. I bought it on eBay from a lady in Canada so perhaps it was originally intended for that market? No way of knowing for sure though, unfortunately.

    I guess there are always going to be some grey areas but this thread is still a fantastic resource for a very "niche subject" (!).

    I'd like to thank you for taking the time to put it together - meant to say that in my first post but it slipped my mind

  44. #44

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I just picked up a couple of minis. As you can see, the box and bottle feature what we're calling the 1st edition logo. Neither box has an EMB code, which normally would suggest a pre-1979 product, although both have what appears to be a production code: 3F20.

    Some other details are worth noting.
    First, these are 4 ml bottles. All the other vintage minis I have seen have been 5 ml bottles. Also, the caps on these 4 ml bottles resemble those on the full size bottles, in that they have a silver line outlining the edge (front side only). The newer caps are a solid color.

    So I wonder if these could be from 1973? The production code and lack of EMB code seem to suggest it, but this goes against the thinking that production codes were not used until 1976. In any case, I guess it's safe to say this is 1st edition PRPH.




  45. #45

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I have a 75ml bottle like that from I believe the early Eighties as it does have a emb code though no production code. The ref is 2240 on mine just a little bit more than yours.

    I also got a bottle from the early nineties and have done a side by side comparison. The early vintage from the eighties smells a bit darker and seems to be slightly more mossy. Where the one from the early nineties seems brighter and more zestier though not as mossy. Both are fantastic with that mossy honey drydown and are light years ahead of the juice that is on the shelves today.
    "There's No School Like The Old School."

  46. #46

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    I have on the way a 16 oz bottle of first edition, i had no idea they made it in that size! I still have yet to splurge for a 33.8 bottle of first, last time I saw that it was a grand. Excited to see if it smells as good as my firsts in smaller bottles and boxed!

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    RoRo - My feeling would be that 3F20 would relate to March 1983. The main reason is that the format of the code is very much like that used in the mid-eighties. I think the code-format preceding this would be a 3-digit code (as in my bottle marked 85E). But then, as you say, there should be an EMB code on the packaging.

    I wonder if samples are not governed by the same rules as regular bottles. I suppose they were not actually intended for sale at the point of production, and so maybe this makes them exempt? Andrθ Moreau would probably be the best person to advise us on this matter.

    Jack Hunter - I've never seen 2240 as a reference - only ever 2190. I don't know the origin or meaning of this reference. As I have only been researching EDT, I wonder if After Shaves, Deodorants, and other products have a different reference. Is your 75m bottle an Eau de Toilette?

    Mountainbikesandwatches - I hope you'll post some photos when your bottle arrives! 16oz is a lot of fragrance, so fingers crossed it will have been stored well by the owner,

    eaglesgift - Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad this thread has helped people!

  48. #48

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    My 75ml bottle is indeed a aftershave where my Edt from the Nineties is a edt.
    "There's No School Like The Old School."

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Ah, that's interesting. So, Reference 2190 must be for Eau de Toilette, and 2240 for After Shave.

  50. #50

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    tmp_2339-20150429_1704571719346760.jpgtmp_2339-20150429_183749613250627.jpgHere is that weird 16 oz bottle, it was cheap enough or I wouldn't have bought it being half full. And another real treat I picked up recently a first edition full in the box complete with paperwork! Tells you how to open the bottle in a couple languages ha

  51. #51

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    That bottle of the good stuff must be huge, congrats on a good find. You can't beat the vintage for it's wonderful green honey mossy drydown.
    "There's No School Like The Old School."

  52. #52
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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainbikesandwatches View Post
    tmp_2339-20150429_1704571719346760.jpgtmp_2339-20150429_183749613250627.jpgHere is that weird 16 oz bottle, it was cheap enough or I wouldn't have bought it being half full. And another real treat I picked up recently a first edition full in the box complete with paperwork! Tells you how to open the bottle in a couple languages ha
    That one is exactly the same as my recently bought bottle (except mine is a half full 4oz) apart from yours having "Eau De toilette" written above "Paco rabanne" , and your label appears a touch shinier.
    have you noticed any deterioration in top notes in this bottle compared to the unopened one?
    ( If you have opened the unopened one that is )

  53. #53

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Yes, actually I opened it upon receipt to check it. There is a small difference, between an opened bottle that is not full and one that has remained full over the years. In some cases, like with that large bottle the smell is a heavier alcohol smell . That may be the best way I could describe it. I have full and close to full of all vintages and sizes, boxed and unboxed you can clearly tell that most first editions from the late seventies have lost nearly all top notes. This is just nature, or science..... Like old bottle of Rochas Moustache, Lanvin, Eau Sauvage etc. I can clearly tell that while not as great a fragrance, 2nd and 3 editions are progressively better on top notes. Simply age. I have a 3.4 splash from 1985 I believe that is still sealed, boy am I curious about smelling that one but I don't know if I could bring myself to it.

    For the previous reasons I actually wear the 3rd formulation the most, at this point in years from manufacture it seems the most accurate to what Paco was in a classic sense, like you bought a bottle in the 1980s new. I wonder if others agree? Just a theory as I was not even ten years old back then.

    I have also done as suggested by others, half second edition with half fourth edition in an atomizer. To me third edition before the ban of oakmoss is where its at for buying, pretty foolproof in the dark bottle and with the sprayer you will get one that smells awesome

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/296...nne-Pour-Homme

    This thread has great info in it too. Ericrico is the one who I stole the idea to mix vintage for top notes
    Last edited by Mountainbikesandwatches; 1st May 2015 at 09:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Great pics! Never seen those instructions before - perhaps it was a super-early release. Any batch codes on those bottles/boxes?

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    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainbikesandwatches View Post
    Yes, actually I opened it upon receipt to check it. There is a small difference, between an opened bottle that is not full and one that has remained full over the years. In some cases, like with that large bottle the smell is a heavier alcohol smell . That may be the best way I could describe it. I have full and close to full of all vintages and sizes, boxed and unboxed you can clearly tell that most first editions from the late seventies have lost nearly all top notes. This is just nature, or science..... Like old bottle of Rochas Moustache, Lanvin, Eau Sauvage etc. I can clearly tell that while not as great a fragrance, 2nd and 3 editions are progressively better on top notes. Simply age. I have a 3.4 splash from 1985 I believe that is still sealed, boy am I curious about smelling that one but I don't know if I could bring myself to it.

    For the previous reasons I actually wear the 3rd formulation the most, at this point in years from manufacture it seems the most accurate to what Paco was in a classic sense, like you bought a bottle in the 1980s new. I wonder if others agree? Just a theory as I was not even ten years old back then.

    I have also done as suggested by others, half second edition with half fourth edition in an atomizer. To me third edition before the ban of oakmoss is where its at for buying, pretty foolproof in the dark bottle and with the sprayer you will get one that smells awesome

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/296...nne-Pour-Homme

    This thread has great info in it too. Ericrico is the one who I stole the idea to mix vintage for top notes
    Thanks, I suppose it makes sense that a thirty year old opened splash bottle will inevitably have lost the top notes, it makes me feel even happier having picked up mine for £10.
    I remember that recommendation of Ericrico's to mix vintages, though I have only tried it with the last but one formulation, which is poor to me.
    I'll look out for the third formulation, that sounds like a plan

  56. #56

    Default Re: Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (EDT) – Vintage Dating/Buying Guide

    The easiest way to remember third is it looks like the other newer bottles ( excluding the terrible current), just it does NOT have Paco rabanne twice on the bottle. It will say eau de toilette or sometimes Paris (best) on the front, bottom.

    Martin, I honestly didn't even look had to leave for the weekend. I will check out tomorrow night, I'll look at some others too. I haven't had much luck with dating on checkcosmetic though, it has only come up with wrong dates for me concerning Paco.

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