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  1. #1

    Default Note sure how do describe a scent

    I've caught a scent on the street from some lady (who left a pretty thick tubular trail of her
    perfume), and I want to try something similar, but I'm not really sure what are the descriptors
    I want to look for. The perfume smelled like transparent floral ionones, and was accentuated
    by a smokey/metallic note. It wasn't smokey like cade/birch tar, but it gave the impression
    of something burnt.. And it was pretty sharp, which gave the metallic dry impression.. So
    what am I looking for here? It's not a scent I encounter a lot, so I don't have the proper words
    for it..

    (I never understood what phenolic means since I never smelled phenol.. Could it be it?)

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    If I remember correctly phenol is similar to freshly sealed roads or naphthalene.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Odeon View Post
    If I remember correctly phenol is similar to freshly sealed roads or naphthalene.
    That’s a good description - if you want to get a good impression get hold of some Cresol (in dilution, it’s very nasty in concentration) - that gives a very clear phenolic note.

    Returning to that perfume, rose oxide might be a factor as might Habanolide both are often used to contribute a metallic quality and Habanolide in particular can give a hot-iron note.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    That's what I thought - that habanolide note.. But it smelled amplified (that is, it didn't smell very musky).
    Maybe I could try both and work up from there. Will get some guaiacol soon, and maybe some cresol from
    Hermitage..

  5. #5

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    One way to experience the phenolic note is to go and buy some scotch whiskey that originates from the Isle of Islay. The major brands are given on this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islay_whisky. I'm sure the major liquour outlets in Israel will have at least one of these. Plus as a side benefit you get to enjoy a lovely drink. :-) Who knows? Maybe a few drops will find their way into one of your perfumes?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by bshell View Post
    One way to experience the phenolic note is to go and buy some scotch whiskey that originates from the Isle of Islay. The major brands are given on this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islay_whisky. I'm sure the major liquour outlets in Israel will have at least one of these. Plus as a side benefit you get to enjoy a lovely drink. :-) Who knows? Maybe a few drops will find their way into one of your perfumes?
    Ha! A splendid idea: Lagavulin, Ardbeg, Bowmore, Bunnahabhain, and Laphroaig all have a place in my whisky cupboard and Caol Ila has been a past resident there too . . .

    And if, like me, you also enjoy a cocktail here’s a bonus idea:

    Smoke on the Water

    2 measures Laphroaig Quarter Cask (but the ordinary sort or another Islay will do if necessary)
    2 measures Vodka (ideally a potato vodka but a good grain one will do just fine).
    1 teaspoon of honey (or if you’re feeling particularly adventurous a measure of Krupnik instead)

    Shake well over ice and serve in a chilled Cocktail glass: perfect with canapés of smoked salmon.
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 8th April 2014 at 04:57 PM. Reason: minor corrections
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    So... If someone needs pure Phenol for some reason, let me know, as I bought a whole kilo for a pittance... but it is awful to try to use or even get rid of...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  8. #8

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Unfortunately I don't drink (or should I say fortunately..?)
    However, I did have a flash of the smell of baking tar before covering a new road.. No
    idea what naphthalene smells like. I'll ask my mom if she got some
    It seems a flower I like (Trachelospermum) found a nice use of phenolic smells..

  9. #9

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    A Kilo of Phenol!!!! Jeez, Paul do please be careful, Phenol is really nasty stuff. It is highly corrosive, and can be absorbed by the skin, burning all the while. In dilution it used to be used in Coal Tar soaps, but has been banned for may years.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Yes, Thanks David,.. I did make a mistake and jumped on it when offered for $20 for the kilo. and now I have to get rid of it.

    Yes, when I first handled it, without gloves, I noticed the effect of toxicity, a defatting of my fingers... WOW! So ever since, I have been VERY CAREFUL and issuing the same warning to anyone who I give it to. though not too many takers, even of 1 dram...

    So now, I'm not sure quite what to do with it...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  11. #11

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Unfortunately I don't drink (or should I say fortunately..?)
    However, I did have a flash of the smell of baking tar before covering a new road.. No
    idea what naphthalene smells like. I'll ask my mom if she got some
    It seems a flower I like (Trachelospermum) found a nice use of phenolic smells..
    That's Indolic Nizan; quite different.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    http://www.pherobase.com/database/fl...asminoides.php

    I can't find a description for those two chemicals, but at least one of them seems to be related
    to chavicol.. They seem to have found them in the headspace of Star Jasmine (which isn't a Jasmine,
    and doesn't smell like one..). Ever got to smell those? I really like them

  13. #13

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    There is a difference between the smell of the chemical Phenol, and the smells of the chemical class "Phenol". The chemical smells like Lysol, Coal Tar, hospitals. The chemical class contains chemicals with very different smells; for example Eugenol is a Phenol, para Cresol is a Phenol.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Didn't realize eugenol is considered phenolic too (though I think it's related to guaiacol chemically). I think I have some vauge kind of grasp of what phenolic means now (will probably get a clearer picture when I get some cresol). However, still not sure that's the scent I caught. So my options are phenolic, metallic and smoky?

    (Another problem is that I lost the impression of that smell by now.. Just have the words..)

  15. #15

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Phenol is a specific chemical (Hydroxybenzene) with a very characteristic smell. There is a group of chemicals that can be classed as "Phenols" because they share a similar structure, which is based on Phenol (HYdroxybenzene). Eugenol is classed as a Phenol although I would not describe its odour as Phenolic.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Ho.. I missed a sentence in your previous post.. Read it while I was in the army
    I guess next time someone goes by with an interesting smell, I should ask them what it is.. Or Patrick-Ziskind them..

  17. #17

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    I have some para cresyl acetate.. Does cresol smell like it minus the fruitiness? There that leather note underneath it..

  18. #18

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I have some para cresyl acetate.. Does cresol smell like it minus the fruitiness? There that leather note underneath it..
    m-Cresol is stronger, smokier and more phenolic than para-Cresyl phenyl acetate, which is more horsey-animal and floral.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    para Cresyl Acetate smells a bit like Cresol with added sweetness. If anyone is old enough to remember "Packamacs" (probably a specifically British thing) that what p Cresyl Acetate smells like to me. para Cresyl Phenyl Acetate (which is not the same thing a p Cresyl Acetate) does indeed smell more floral; a bit like Narcissus or Lily.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    para Cresyl Acetate smells a bit like Cresol with added sweetness. If anyone is old enough to remember "Packamacs" (probably a specifically British thing) that what p Cresyl Acetate smells like to me. para Cresyl Phenyl Acetate (which is not the same thing a p Cresyl Acetate) does indeed smell more floral; a bit like Narcissus or Lily.
    Ah yes, good one, I fear I am indeed old enough (and British enough) to remember Packamacs and cagouls . . . also thanks for spotting and correcting my misdirection on para-Cresyl phenyl acetate instead of para-Cresyl acetate!
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    I still get tripped up by the 'phenolic' descriptor. I've smelled cresol and one of the acetates, and I've smelled an old disinfectant product with some phenol derivative or something. But I notice that things like methyl benzoate are also described as phenolic. But I don't think that smells the least bit smoky or tarry.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Ha! A splendid idea: Lagavulin, Ardbeg, Bowmore, Bunnahabhain, and Laphroaig all have a place in my whisky cupboard and Caol Ila has been a past resident there too . . .

    And if, like me, you also enjoy a cocktail here’s a bonus idea:

    Smoke on the Water

    2 measures Laphroaig Quarter Cask (but the ordinary sort or another Islay will do if necessary)
    2 measures Vodka (ideally a potato vodka but a good grain one will do just fine).
    1 teaspoon of honey (or if you’re feeling particularly adventurous a measure of Krupnik instead)

    Shake well over ice and serve in a chilled Cocktail glass: perfect with canapés of smoked salmon.


    I'm afraid I can't add much to the phenol discussion that hasn't been said already. However this cocktail sounds awesome. I have some bowmore and bison grass vodka at home plus I'm a honey freak. I know what I'm drinking tonight.

    rick

  23. #23

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Casts_by_fly View Post
    I'm afraid I can't add much to the phenol discussion that hasn't been said already. However this cocktail sounds awesome. I have some bowmore and bison grass vodka at home plus I'm a honey freak. I know what I'm drinking tonight.

    rick
    Hope you enjoyed it ;-)
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    I got really smokey honey.. It was supposed to have 35% royal gelly.. Although it's quite a bummer to eat, sounds like it would work on that cocktail..
    I think I've seen honey described as phenolic somewhere - am I right?

    I've smelled the blossoming trachelospermums.. Think I'm a fan of phenolic florals now

  25. #25

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I got really smokey honey.. It was supposed to have 35% royal gelly.. Although it's quite a bummer to eat, sounds like it would work on that cocktail..
    I think I've seen honey described as phenolic somewhere - am I right?

    I've smelled the blossoming trachelospermums.. Think I'm a fan of phenolic florals now
    INDOLIC NOT PHENOLIC; there is a difference.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    I'm not really sure how much indole is in that scent, I get a feeling there is, but I'm not sure if I can separate its smell. It's that leatheriness that I like in this flower.. Makes it a bit lighter than the usual 'white' flowers. Or do you mean that the propenyl-phenols smell indolic?

  27. #27

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    Tracelospermums, as well as Jasmin, Honeysuckle and Lily of the Valley, produce a perfume that contains Indole; they none of them contain Phenol. Thus you can describe them as smelling Indolic, but not Phenolic. The propenyl-phenols that you say are found in the Tracelospermum fragrances don't smell of Phenol, even though they are of the Phenol chemical group. How many more times?

  28. #28

    Default Re: Note sure how do describe a scent

    This time was clear enough for me
    What do they smell like? I couldn't find a proper GC so far..

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