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  1. #1

    Default Need help with a Tuberose accord

    This is my best attempt at a Tuberose accord, any opinions? I would love a Firmenich Tuberose base but cannot find one.

    Methyl Benzoate 30
    Benzyl Benzoate 21
    Methyl Salicylate 10
    Iso Eugenol 5
    Methyl Anthrilate 5
    Eugenol 4
    Aldehyde C-18 4
    Nerolidol 2
    Indole 2
    Gamma-octalactone 2
    Hedione 2
    Citral 1

  2. #2

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Use Methyl Tuberate

    Here is a simple Tuberose base for you to play with.

    Benzyl Acetate 10.0
    Methyl Benzoate 4.0
    Linalol 7.0
    Methyl Salicylate 4.0
    Benzyl Salicylate 10.0
    Methyl Helptine Carbonate (or Undecavertol, or Methyl Octine Carbonate) 1.0
    Methyl ANthrnilate 20.0
    Ylang (Oil or Base) 4.0
    Aurantiol 1.0
    Methyl Tubrate 0.5
    gamma Octalactone 0.5
    Celery Seed Oil 0.9
    Hydroxycitronellal 30.0
    gamma Nonalactone 5.0
    Tolu Balsamm (or Benzoin) 2.0
    Vanillin 0.1

    If you are concerned about the amount of Hydroxycitronellal, use smaller amounts of :-

    Florhydral,
    Geranodyle
    Florosa
    Floral Super ( a lot less, it's very strong)
    Helional
    Melafleur.

    Have fun.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    JT86, Yes, I've received several fantastic Tuberose bases from some suppliers, but I have to warn you that the better it is, the higher the price...

    I do use a nice Tuberose base in my Gold Leather that is a pretty good premade base, but is not a perfect Fresh flower type base, by any means. But Frederic Malle and his Perfumer used the same base in the fantastic Carnal Flower. How do I know? Because I can smell it in there...

    Tuberose has been a passion of mine as well.

    I've been so pleased when I've been travelling in so many places to go to the local Bazaar, and bring back fresh Tuberose flowers to fill the room with their beauty and fragrance...! :-)

    Best of luck to you with your exploits and the base...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    I'll give you another hint from my tuberose notes file, gathered from the internet...:


    "Today wearing 'Dolce' (Dolce&Gabbana, 2014) by Jean-Marc Chaillan and Laurent Leguernec versus Calice Becker's 'J’adore' (Dior, 1999), as pretty obviously it is a 'J’adore' type. One could of course smell both, 'Dolce' and 'J’adore', as "Tuberose light"s, and that way it gets obvious, why 'J’adore' is so much more radiant and has so much more sillage: The green contrast is key to any tuberose, and in 'J’adore' its the glycolierral ivy-leaf accord that makes the tuberose resonate, however subtle it may be. Leguernec was of course participating in Alain Alchenberger's 'Michael' (Michael Kors, 2000), and there it was undecavertol that contrasted the tuberose. How did he forget?
    Anyway, in 'Dolce', the melon-peach-pear theme in the top of 'J’adore' gets watered down to a watermelon-kiwi-pear theme, call it 'papaya flower' if you like. The tuberose in the heart is diluted with orange blossoms to result in what the marketing people then name a bold 'white water lily', 'white daffodil', and 'white amaryllis' blend. But with all the white they forgot to contrast the watered-down tuberose remains with a green accord. Thus, the heart sinks in the light sandal-, patchouli-accented Cashmeran–musk fond that is nice indeed but too flat to save the fragrance. Perhaps its the Cashmeran itself or the mossy notes, but even in the dry-down 'J'Adore' wins easily over 'Dolce'. The tuberose gets almost completely forgotten in the fruitchouli framework: too sad! Needs to be layered with something green to gain!!"
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  5. #5

    Default Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Hi P. Kiler, what would be a good tuberose base and where could I get a nice one? I don't intend to use it in fragrance yet (i'm a beginner) but I love tuberose for the scent itself. Carnal flower is one of my favorite renditions as well as the buttery tuberose from diptyque (room - candle and spray).
    Last edited by perfectscent; 12th April 2014 at 01:45 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectscent View Post
    Hi P. Kiler, what would be a good tuberose base and where could I get a nice one? I don't intend to use it in fragrance yet (i'm a beginner) but I love tuberose for the scent itself. Carnal flower is one of my favorite renditions as well as the buttery tuberose from diptyque (room - candle and spray).
    The Creating perfume.com Tuberose base isn't too bad. The other bases start at $450 per kilo and go up to $1550/kilo that I have samples of. I'm not sure where you can get small amounts anywhere except as samples from suppliers. I could sell you some small amt of the kilo I bought that is the base used in my Gold Leather and is in Carnal Flower. but be warned it is not a fresh flower type of base, it is more of a middle notes base. It is the $800-$1550 type of bases that I have samples from that are fresh flower duplicate types of bases

    What I would suggest is to start by getting the Creating Perfume base, and adding in some real Tuberose Absolute, and see where that places you.

    And have you smelled the Estee Lauder Private Collection Gardenia Tuberose perfume? It's very nice too.

    PK
    Last edited by pkiler; 15th February 2016 at 05:57 AM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  7. #7

    Default Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Thank you PK, this is valuable information to me and yes I would be interested in buying some from you.I am sure it is a good one. Could this base of yours also stand alone on itself or does it need additions to make it fresh per se?

    Mladen


    Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    The base I was referring to selling is a Firmenich Base. It still needs to be blended with other materials to make it a fresh flower base.

    I also have another more vintage Tuberose base that I really love. I think it too is a Firmenich Base, but no longer available. It was probably expensive too. I've had it analyzed by GC-MS, and could share that with you and some of the base for a bit of money. I have not yet tried to reconstruct that base yet, but it is on my list to try and rework it for myself for the future, and incorporate some of the fresh flower elements into it too.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Hi PK, I would be interested in buying some of that firmenich base of yours. Please pm me.

    Cheers,

    Mladen


    Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Super Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Use Methyl Tuberate

    Here is a simple Tuberose base for you to play with.

    Benzyl Acetate 10.0
    Methyl Benzoate 4.0
    Linalol 7.0
    Methyl Salicylate 4.0
    Benzyl Salicylate 10.0
    Methyl Helptine Carbonate (or Undecavertol, or Methyl Octine Carbonate) 1.0
    Methyl ANthrnilate 20.0
    Ylang (Oil or Base) 4.0
    Aurantiol 1.0
    Methyl Tubrate 0.5
    gamma Octalactone 0.5
    Celery Seed Oil 0.9
    Hydroxycitronellal 30.0
    gamma Nonalactone 5.0
    Tolu Balsamm (or Benzoin) 2.0
    Vanillin 0.1

    If you are concerned about the amount of Hydroxycitronellal, use smaller amounts of :-

    Florhydral,
    Geranodyle
    Florosa
    Floral Super ( a lot less, it's very strong)
    Helional
    Melafleur.

    Have fun.
    David this is an awesome base! I made it without the methyl tuberate that I will hopefully have soon and it is already awesome..

    May I ask which is your source?

    It has all the aspects of tuberose i want it to have.. the coconut aspect (c18 and gamma octalactone) the orange blossom (aurantiol), ylang..

    Also if you had to use lyral instead of hydroxycitronellal how much would you use?

    Would u also replace the celery seed oil with the same amount of cis jasmone?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    The original base comes from Poucher's book. The original contained Tuberose Absolute (Enfleurage) which I replaced with Methyl Tuberate. You could replace Celery Seed oil with jasmone, but it will not be exactly the same. If you wanted to replace Hydroxycitronellal with Lyral, I would use about two thirds Lyral. Please be aware however, that Lyral is an even stronger allergen than Hydroxycitronellal, and is likely to be banned in the near future.

    After all that, I'm glad you like the base, and that it is what you were looking for.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 15th May 2014 at 01:46 PM.

  12. #12
    Super Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Ah great.. I should have figured it is from Poucher.. His bases are all time classics.
    I find lyral more pleasant than hydroxycitronellal and the second has a rotten grass undertone to me that i wouldn't like to add to tuberose.

    As regards to the celery seed oil, I'm thinking to replace it with cis- jasmone and not with jasmine base or absolute.. Shall I use the half amount of it you think (0.45 in the above base)? I find cis jasmone strong enough..

  13. #13

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Sorry I made a typo, I meant jasmone not jasmine; and have now corrected it. I would have thought that half the amount of jasmone will be fine. And I have just discovered that my computer was trying to help; I typed jasmone and it auto-corrected.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    So, If I have some Tuberose Enfleurage to use, the amount is tiny, just 0.5% that doesn't seem unreasonable to include in a formula from a price perspective, but it certainly won't be all lactone, will it?

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  15. #15
    Super Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Paul the original Poucher formula has 2% tuberose absolute, but David replaced it with 0.5% methyl tuberate.
    This evening I blended the formula with 2% tuberose absolute and cis jasmone instead of celery seed oil.
    The result is very very nice.. warm and rich.

    Actually I just start to appreciate the tuberose absolute.

    Also for the green element I used undecavertol which I think makes the whole think quite modern and not like an old tuberose like in fracas.

    I now think how to use the base to make a tuberose soliflore..
    Any ideas welcome.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    You should get your Tuberose package soon...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  17. #17

  18. #18

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    So, If I have some Tuberose Enfleurage to use, the amount is tiny, just 0.5% that doesn't seem unreasonable to include in a formula from a price perspective, but it certainly won't be all lactone, will it?

    PK
    No it won't. I only made the substitution because of the cost of Tuberose, and the difficulty in getting it. If these are not a problem, then use it.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    So, Here's a comparison with the original formula:

    Tuberose, no. 1064, Poucher's Perfumes Cosmetics and Soaps, 8th Ed. Vol 2, p. 206

    Benzyl Acetate 10.0 Benzyl Acetate 10.0
    Methyl Benzoate 4.0 Methyl Benzoate 4.0
    Linalol 7.0 Linalol 7.0
    Methyl Salicylate 4.0 Methyl Salicylate 4.0
    Benzyl Salicylate 10.0 Benzyl Salicylate 10.0
    Methyl Heptine Carbonate 1.0 Methyl Heptine Carbonate 1.0
    Methyl Anthranilate 20.0 Methyl Anthranilate 20.0
    Ylang (Oil or Base) 4.0 Ylang (Oil or Base) 4.0
    Aurantiol 1.0 Tuberose Abs 2.0
    Methyl Tuberate 0.5
    gamma Octalactone 0.5
    Celery Seed Oil 0.9 Celery Seed Oil 0.9
    Hydroxycitronellal 30.0 Hydroxycitronellal 30.0
    gamma Nonalactone (Ald C-18) 5.0 gamma Nonalactone (Ald C-18) 5.0
    Tolu Balsam (or Benzoin) 2.0 Tolu Balsam (or Benzoin) 2.0
    Vanillin 0.1 Vanillin 0.1


    I wonder about subbing some Methyl Tuberate with part of the Gamma Nonalactone...?

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Take over Paul and do what you like. I suggested the Poucher base as a good starting point.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Use Methyl Tuberate

    Here is a simple Tuberose base for you to play with.

    Benzyl Acetate 10.0
    Methyl Benzoate 4.0
    Linalol 7.0
    Methyl Salicylate 4.0
    Benzyl Salicylate 10.0
    Methyl Helptine Carbonate (or Undecavertol, or Methyl Octine Carbonate) 1.0
    Methyl ANthrnilate 20.0
    Ylang (Oil or Base) 4.0
    Aurantiol 1.0
    Methyl Tubrate 0.5
    gamma Octalactone 0.5
    Celery Seed Oil 0.9
    Hydroxycitronellal 30.0
    gamma Nonalactone 5.0
    Tolu Balsamm (or Benzoin) 2.0
    Vanillin 0.1

    If you are concerned about the amount of Hydroxycitronellal, use smaller amounts of :-

    Florhydral,
    Geranodyle
    Florosa
    Floral Super ( a lot less, it's very strong)
    Helional
    Melafleur.

    Have fun.
    Hi David,

    This formula lists Hydroxycitronellal, Methyl anthranilate and Aurantiol, wouldn't this combo create a schiffs base in itself??


    Mladen
    Last edited by perfectscent; 16th July 2014 at 04:26 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectscent View Post
    Hi David,

    This formula lists Hydroxycitronellal, Methyl anthranilate and Aurantiol, wouldn't this combo create a schiffs base in itself??


    Mladen
    Eventually.

  23. #23

    Default

    Thanks for the reply David.

    I was just wondering. Why not take the shortcut then and replace these two (Hydroxycit. and Anthranilate) with Aurantiol?

    Cheers

  24. #24

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    I merely quoted the formula. Not all of the Hydroxycitronellal and Methyl Anthranilate will react, there will still be some free in solution. Using Auratiol, will give a different result.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    And what if I used Lyral instead of hydroxycitronellal? I am aware of the standards but being that it is for me only -education and I have better access to Lyral as to hydroxycitronellal at the moment?

    Thanks David

  26. #26

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    You will have another take on Tuberose. Why not try it and see?

  27. #27

    Default

    Need help with my tuberose, for real.
    I made the accord (more or less) following David's instruction in this thread and it is a yummy floral, truly fresh and creamy light. Must say I subed hydroxycitronellal with lyral (a little less though) and added a trace of floralozone. Didn't have undecavertol but it is nice nevertheless.

    Now i want to improve it with right base and possibly top notes.
    I want to use suederal in the base but need your help in how to make it warm sweet incensy even and shiny in the background like soft suede. Think michael kors but softer, tuberose paired with soft suede.
    Also, wanted to know what would in your opinion work as a good top note, i am after that camphorous/green opening "carnal flower" from malle has. I used benzyl acetate etc.
    Last edited by perfectscent; 11th August 2014 at 02:56 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Thank you in advance

  29. #29

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectscent View Post
    Thank you in advance
    It would be nice if you did a little of your own groundwork before asking us for help. I don't know how much experience of Perfumery you have, but before you start trying to create your own fragrances you really do need to become fully acquainted with the raw materials you want to use. You need to smell individual ingredients, on smelling strips, and follow their performance over time (maybe hours, or days, or even weeks) so that you know what they will do. You then need to make up simple accords of two or three materials, varying the proportions until you get something you like. Making notes all the time, so that you know why something goes right, or (more often) goes wrong.

    I have given you a good Tuberose base, because that is what you asked for. However, I am not prepared to tell you how to make a Tuberose based fragrance. You mention using Suederal; why not? Try it and see. If you are familiar with this ingredient you will know something of how it performs. I have no idea what you mean by "sweet incency" or "shiny"; I hope you do. Hedione could be described as adding a shine to a fragrance. If you have used this material, you will know what I mean. A good Top note is what you want in your fragrance; my good Top note would be something different. Methyl Salicylate is often used in Tuberose fragrances; good luck with that.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Need help with a Tuberose accord

    Opoponax in addition to Suederal? You'll probably have to find the proper musk to support the thing and not let it disappear in a cloudy puff.. I'm not sure, but maybe Saffron chems would give you that shine you're looking for.. or maybe one of those dry Amber molecules?




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