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  1. #1
    taint it sweet's Avatar
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    Default Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    For those who have smelled of both of these, I was wondering if there were significant differences between the two fragrances.

  2. #2
    Basenotes Junkie bigbloke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Amber Aoud has a very nice prominent note (sorry, I know it sounds obvious but it really smells like Amber attar oils that I've experienced before). It is sweet and lasts for quite some time.

    Crystal Aoud is rose based. Quite a sharp rose. Reminded me of Heeley's Agarwoud; I prefer the rose in Heeley.

    Based on my limited wearings of the two Roja Doves at this point in time I prefer Amber Aoud.

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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    I'm not sure but I think the OP might be asking about differences between Amber Aoud and Amber Aoud Crystal. There are crystal versions of all three Roja Aouds.

    In my opinion, dark juice amber aoud seems to last and project a bit longer than the crystal version. The notes also seem a bit crisper in the dark juice. If the OP was asking the difference between Roja Aoud and Roja Amber Aoud they are different fragrances as stated above.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Love the regular Amber Aoud, have not tried the Crystal, but am also curious. Hopefully some more people can answer to get a consensus on sillage/longevity differences, if any. Hard to get so many opinions or forum consensus on such an expensive fragrance that probably only a few dozen here have tried...

    In either case I would personally stick to the regular version - can't be any weaker than the crystal by my logic.
    Current favorites_____Black Tourmaline_____Gucci Pour Homme II_____Memoir Man_____Tuscan Leather______Montale Aoud and Pine_____Sel Marin_____Invasion Barbare_____Tonka Imperial____Dior Homme Intense_____L'Humaniste____Santal 33_____Bois d'Argent_____Nio_____MFK Oud_____Lumiere Noire_____Bois d'Encens_____Cuir Ottoman

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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Having worn both, I found no difference. The reason for Crystal version, RD, right or wrong wanted to give people the option to have one that will not stain clothing.

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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    They're both similar on the rose and oud Amber oud is more opulent/richer deeper and Aoud is fresher and crisp....Amber Aoud is beast mode and Aoud is average in longevity and projection...both winners as I have both but if you have one you really don't need thee other regardless(short summary)....peace
    "Thank GOD for the nose, for without it we would not be enjoying these beautiful created Scents" also Remember "Balance is everything and the key to appreciating "

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    taint it sweet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by KBF1972 View Post
    I'm not sure but I think the OP might be asking about differences between Amber Aoud and Amber Aoud Crystal. There are crystal versions of all three Roja Aouds.

    In my opinion, dark juice amber aoud seems to last and project a bit longer than the crystal version. The notes also seem a bit crisper in the dark juice. If the OP was asking the difference between Roja Aoud and Roja Amber Aoud they are different fragrances as stated above.
    Yeah, I was asking about the difference between Amber Aoud and the crystal version of the same fragrance. I have the crystal version, but I haven't smelled the other one. When I was adding it to my wardrobe, I didn't see an option for the crystal version, so I just added the regular one to keep track of my usage instead. I didn't know if one was superior, etc. Thanks for the responses.

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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    They're pretty much identical. As they were intended to be. I like the clothing-staining red version better, though. Just for the visual. Full disclosure, I have not been able to justify the breathtaking price points to myself (yet?) and I'm not an owner.

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    Basenotes Junkie bigbloke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by taint it sweet View Post
    Yeah, I was asking about the difference between Amber Aoud and the crystal version of the same fragrance. I have the crystal version, but I haven't smelled the other one. When I was adding it to my wardrobe, I didn't see an option for the crystal version, so I just added the regular one to keep track of my usage instead. I didn't know if one was superior, etc. Thanks for the responses.
    Aaah, oops, got wrong end of the stick!

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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    I prefer Amber Aoud Crystal instead of the regular Amber Aoud. The Crystal version is cleaner and smoother with the rose being more prominent than the amber. The regular Amber Aoud is more complex and less harmonious, it seems distinctly disjointed between the rose opening and the spicy amber drydown. I've been enjoying Aoud, Musk Aoud and Amber Aoud Crystal immensely, and I'd love to know the difference between the regular Aoud and Crystal Aoud.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Have you ever payed attention to the Ingredients list on the bottom of the Roja Parfums boxes? His Aoud fragrances are loaded with colorants, the Crystal Versions are the same formulas without colorants. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Rojas perfumes, and I own Amber Aoud. But the truth is: the dark color is achieved by colorants, that's the whole magic behind it. They look stunning, though, especially that deep red of Amber Aoud!
    Last edited by Sasuke; 13th February 2015 at 07:02 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by mixerscent View Post
    I prefer Amber Aoud Crystal instead of the regular Amber Aoud. The Crystal version is cleaner and smoother with the rose being more prominent than the amber. The regular Amber Aoud is more complex and less harmonious, it seems distinctly disjointed between the rose opening and the spicy amber drydown. I've been enjoying Aoud, Musk Aoud and Amber Aoud Crystal immensely, and I'd love to know the difference between the regular Aoud and Crystal Aoud.
    Now I really want to get my hands on samples of the crystal versions of Aoud and Amber Aoud.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    As others have said above, I also smelled no difference and the Roja Dove rep at Nieman Marcus told me exactly the same thing about the problem of staining clothes with the darker one.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    As others have said above, I also smelled no difference and the Roja Dove rep at Nieman Marcus told me exactly the same thing about the problem of staining clothes with the darker one.
    That's what the Neimans rep told me also. I know that the dark juice probably will stain clothes, but I'm not sure this is enough of a deterrent for me... That juice is gorgeous, dyes or not!

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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke View Post
    Have you ever payed attention to the Ingredients list on the bottom of the Roja Parfums boxes? His Aoud fragrances are loaded with colorants, the Crystal Versions are the same formulas without colorants. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Rojas perfumes, and I own Amber Aoud. But the truth is: the dark color is achieved by colorants, that's the whole magic behind it. They look stunning, though, especially that deep red of Amber Aoud!
    Hi Sasuke, thanks for this info. I only have 10ml decants of the Aouds so I couldn't check, it doesn't explain why I can smell a difference between the regular and crystal versions of Amber Aoud. I'll hold off on purchasing Aoud for now at least until I can sniff them side by side. I have to say the colour of Aoud is quite something but if it's just dye hmmm...

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    I've tried both, and own a bottle of Amber Oud Crystal Parfum. There's no discernible difference between the fragrances. The Crystal versions were made by extracting all pigments from the regular version (and perhaps by NOT adding colorants as someone above suggested), to keep the liquid clear as not to stain white and light colored clothing. But there's no difference in the actual fragrance, it is exactly the same. The regular version definitely stains fabric, so I'd personally not recommend it for this reason alone, when you can use the Crystal Parfum without any staining issues. It's same price, too, so it's not like you have to pay premium for it.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    I can definitely smell a difference between these two fragrances, the regular Amber Aoud is more spicy with a prominent cinnamon note whereas the Amber Aoud Crystal is cleaner and lacking the cinnamon (there's probably more to it than that). Not sure about the colouring, maybe by heating the oils to remove colour they've also removed or altered some of the notes.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by mixerscent View Post
    I can definitely smell a difference between these two fragrances, the regular Amber Aoud is more spicy with a prominent cinnamon note whereas the Amber Aoud Crystal is cleaner and lacking the cinnamon (there's probably more to it than that). Not sure about the colouring, maybe by heating the oils to remove colour they've also removed or altered some of the notes.
    I concur with this assessment. I have a full bottle of the original and a generous decant of Crystal. I also find that on my skin, the original Amber Oud performs slightly better in regards of Longevity, silliage and Projection. As for the colour, I don't know how Mr Dove added it or removed it!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    It seems that people really do believe in the "special extraction method" explained by Mr. Dove, that allegedly makes oils less colorful. So, I will try to tell you what I know.

    Every perfume box features a so called INCI list, which shows all the ingredients that need to be declared by law. Most are allergens. The ingredients are always listed in a descending order, means the first ingredient in these lists is always the one the fragrance contains the most of, the last one is featured the least. If a fragrance contains colorants, they can always be found on the INCI list. So let's have a look at some of them:
    IMAG0773.jpg IMAG0770.jpgLady-Gaga-The-Fame-Ingredients.jpg

    Here we got Bleu de Chanel, Joop! Homme and Lady Gaga Fame. At the bottom of each list, you will notice ingredients that begin with "CI" and continue with a number. These are colorants. As you can also see, they can only be found at the bottom of these lists. Why is that? Colorants are intense, so just a little is needed to achieve great effects, such as the deep pink of Joop! Homme. And even with Lady Gaga Fame, which is BLACK, they only added so little that they are at the bottom of the list. Now let's take a look at the INCI list of Musk Aoud by Roja Parfums:
    57.JPG

    Here you will instantly recognize the "CI" colorants, but something is different here: They are found extremely early in the list, which means Musk Aoud is loaded, I repeat, LOADED with colorants. A quick research reveals the colors used in this fragrance: CI 61565 is Quinizarine Green. CI 26100 is Sudan III (red). CI 12010 is Bestoil Brown B. If I check the color of Musk Aoud, which is extremely dark and dense, these colors listed in the INCI sound right. My point with this post is not to offend anyone, or to burst anyones dream bubble about the "dark fragrance oils" used in the Roja Aouds. I am just a curious mind who likes to question things that are taken for granted. If the oils used in Rojas Aoud fragrances were really so dark that he conceived a special extraction method to get rid of their color, why does he need to add a MASSIVE dose of dye to these fragrances? It doesn't make sense.

    So my conclusion is: The "Crystal Parfum" versions of his Aoud fragrances are the exaxt same formulas, but without the dye. The crystal versions are the actual colors of these formulas. And to my nose, there is no difference whatsoever between the Parfum and Crystal Parfum editions. Then why do so many people smell some differences? Well, my guess is that we are fooled by our brain. When we see a clear fluid, we don't expect it to smell pungent. If we see darker liquids we instantly think they will have an intense smell. This instant reaction is further nurtured by the perfume industry, if a fragrance is called "intense", they add color to make it darker. Why? So that the consumers think it actually is stronger. Roja Dove uses the same trick: He puts massive amounts of color into his Aouds, so we think they contain pure oud oil with a strong smell. But to please customers who don't want their clothes to be stained, he made versions without colorants, the Crystal Parfum. But he couldn't just tell us the truth, it wouldn't sound as sophisticated as the Roja brand is marketed to us. So they came up with the "new and sophisticated" extraction method that produces lighter oils. Despite all of this, I still love my Roja Aouds

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Thanks for taking the time to do this Sasuke. When I read your initial post about the dyes, I had the same thoughts about colour and the impact on our sensory perception. I then went back and tested both fragrances several times and came to the conclusion about the difference in smell in my post above. I've checked my boxes of Enigma, Fetish, Danger, Scandal, Goodman's (parfum strength) and bergamot, vetiver and amber, these boxes don't indicate dyes in the ingredient list.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke View Post
    It seems that people really do believe in the "special extraction method" explained by Mr. Dove, that allegedly makes oils less colorful. So, I will try to tell you what I know.

    Every perfume box features a so called INCI list, which shows all the ingredients that need to be declared by law. Most are allergens. The ingredients are always listed in a descending order, means the first ingredient in these lists is always the one the fragrance contains the most of, the last one is featured the least. If a fragrance contains colorants, they can always be found on the INCI list. So let's have a look at some of them:
    IMAG0773.jpg IMAG0770.jpgLady-Gaga-The-Fame-Ingredients.jpg

    Here we got Bleu de Chanel, Joop! Homme and Lady Gaga Fame. At the bottom of each list, you will notice ingredients that begin with "CI" and continue with a number. These are colorants. As you can also see, they can only be found at the bottom of these lists. Why is that? Colorants are intense, so just a little is needed to achieve great effects, such as the deep pink of Joop! Homme. And even with Lady Gaga Fame, which is BLACK, they only added so little that they are at the bottom of the list. Now let's take a look at the INCI list of Musk Aoud by Roja Parfums:
    57.JPG

    Here you will instantly recognize the "CI" colorants, but something is different here: They are found extremely early in the list, which means Musk Aoud is loaded, I repeat, LOADED with colorants. A quick research reveals the colors used in this fragrance: CI 61565 is Quinizarine Green. CI 26100 is Sudan III (red). CI 12010 is Bestoil Brown B. If I check the color of Musk Aoud, which is extremely dark and dense, these colors listed in the INCI sound right. My point with this post is not to offend anyone, or to burst anyones dream bubble about the "dark fragrance oils" used in the Roja Aouds. I am just a curious mind who likes to question things that are taken for granted. If the oils used in Rojas Aoud fragrances were really so dark that he conceived a special extraction method to get rid of their color, why does he need to add a MASSIVE dose of dye to these fragrances? It doesn't make sense.

    So my conclusion is: The "Crystal Parfum" versions of his Aoud fragrances are the exaxt same formulas, but without the dye. The crystal versions are the actual colors of these formulas. And to my nose, there is no difference whatsoever between the Parfum and Crystal Parfum editions. Then why do so many people smell some differences? Well, my guess is that we are fooled by our brain. When we see a clear fluid, we don't expect it to smell pungent. If we see darker liquids we instantly think they will have an intense smell. This instant reaction is further nurtured by the perfume industry, if a fragrance is called "intense", they add color to make it darker. Why? So that the consumers think it actually is stronger. Roja Dove uses the same trick: He puts massive amounts of color into his Aouds, so we think they contain pure oud oil with a strong smell. But to please customers who don't want their clothes to be stained, he made versions without colorants, the Crystal Parfum. But he couldn't just tell us the truth, it wouldn't sound as sophisticated as the Roja brand is marketed to us. So they came up with the "new and sophisticated" extraction method that produces lighter oils. Despite all of this, I still love my Roja Aouds
    What an awesome post. This is totally compelling to me. Great sleuthwork, and it makes sense.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke View Post
    It seems that people really do believe in the "special extraction method" explained by Mr. Dove, that allegedly makes oils less colorful. So, I will try to tell you what I know.

    Every perfume box features a so called INCI list, which shows all the ingredients that need to be declared by law. Most are allergens. The ingredients are always listed in a descending order, means the first ingredient in these lists is always the one the fragrance contains the most of, the last one is featured the least. If a fragrance contains colorants, they can always be found on the INCI list. So let's have a look at some of them:


    Here we got Bleu de Chanel, Joop! Homme and Lady Gaga Fame. At the bottom of each list, you will notice ingredients that begin with "CI" and continue with a number. These are colorants. As you can also see, they can only be found at the bottom of these lists. Why is that? Colorants are intense, so just a little is needed to achieve great effects, such as the deep pink of Joop! Homme. And even with Lady Gaga Fame, which is BLACK, they only added so little that they are at the bottom of the list. Now let's take a look at the INCI list of Musk Aoud by Roja Parfums:


    Here you will instantly recognize the "CI" colorants, but something is different here: They are found extremely early in the list, which means Musk Aoud is loaded, I repeat, LOADED with colorants. A quick research reveals the colors used in this fragrance: CI 61565 is Quinizarine Green. CI 26100 is Sudan III (red). CI 12010 is Bestoil Brown B. If I check the color of Musk Aoud, which is extremely dark and dense, these colors listed in the INCI sound right. My point with this post is not to offend anyone, or to burst anyones dream bubble about the "dark fragrance oils" used in the Roja Aouds. I am just a curious mind who likes to question things that are taken for granted. If the oils used in Rojas Aoud fragrances were really so dark that he conceived a special extraction method to get rid of their color, why does he need to add a MASSIVE dose of dye to these fragrances? It doesn't make sense.

    So my conclusion is: The "Crystal Parfum" versions of his Aoud fragrances are the exaxt same formulas, but without the dye. The crystal versions are the actual colors of these formulas. And to my nose, there is no difference whatsoever between the Parfum and Crystal Parfum editions. Then why do so many people smell some differences? Well, my guess is that we are fooled by our brain. When we see a clear fluid, we don't expect it to smell pungent. If we see darker liquids we instantly think they will have an intense smell. This instant reaction is further nurtured by the perfume industry, if a fragrance is called "intense", they add color to make it darker. Why? So that the consumers think it actually is stronger. Roja Dove uses the same trick: He puts massive amounts of color into his Aouds, so we think they contain pure oud oil with a strong smell. But to please customers who don't want their clothes to be stained, he made versions without colorants, the Crystal Parfum. But he couldn't just tell us the truth, it wouldn't sound as sophisticated as the Roja brand is marketed to us. So they came up with the "new and sophisticated" extraction method that produces lighter oils. Despite all of this, I still love my Roja Aouds
    Thank you for the informative post.
    I do agree to an extent, but with some caveats.

    Perfumers are obliged by law to list all allergens in their formulas. But, I do not think the order of listed allergens has anything to do with the quantities contained. For a start, no perfumer worth their salt will give away such a large clue as to composition levels!

    I do agree our brains do play tricks on us. But, I have ( like mixer) just run a blind test of both perfumes, and I was able to pick them apart every time. Now, this may well be due to age and maturity issues, but I doubt it.
    The more likely scenario for these (slight as they are) variations, is that a little reformulation to achieve clear liquid has taken place. After all, some natural oils do have colour you know.

    I do agree that this so called "sophisticated" extraction method is (more likely than not) clever PR from Roja's team. My take on it is that yes,The new Amber Oud has no colouring agents, but to achieve "crystal", the coloured oils in the original formula, would have been replaced with equivalent colourless aroma-chemicals (hence the variations I can detect)

    ***Edit***
    And to prove my point... here is my Original Amber Oud Parfum 100ml bottle ingredient list!
    As you can see, the ingredient list is not listed in the same order as yours. And yes, I know yours is Musk Oud, but the concentration of parfum should be the same in both cases.. unless, my Amber Oud has more perfume and less water than Musk Oud.. In which case, i am a happy camper indeed!
    Last edited by Viffer; 14th February 2015 at 10:41 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by Viffer View Post
    Thank you for the informative post.
    I do agree to an extent, but with some caveats.

    Perfumers are obliged by law to list all allergens in their formulas. But, I do not think the order of listed allergens has anything to do with the quantities contained. For a start, no perfumer worth their salt will give away such a large clue as to composition levels!

    I do agree our brains do play tricks on us. But, I have ( like mixer) just run a blind test of both perfumes, and I was able to pick them apart every time. Now, this may well be due to age and maturity issues, but I doubt it.
    The more likely scenario for these (slight as they are) variations, is that a little reformulation to achieve clear liquid has taken place. After all, some natural oils do have colour you know.

    I do agree that this so called "sophisticated" extraction method is (more likely than not) clever PR from Roja's team. My take on it is that yes,The new Amber Oud has no colouring agents, but to achieve "crystal", the coloured oils in the original formula, would have been replaced with equivalent colourless aroma-chemicals (hence the variations I can detect)

    ***Edit***
    And to prove my point... here is my Original Amber Oud Parfum 100ml bottle ingredient list!
    As you can see, the ingredient list is not listed in the same order as yours. And yes, I know yours is Musk Oud, but the concentration of parfum should be the same in both cases.. unless, my Amber Oud has more perfume and less water than Musk Oud.. In which case, i am a happy camper indeed!
    Thank you, Viffer, you made valid points and I do think that there is the possibility that some naturals are replaced with colorless aromachemicals. Maybe I just can not pick out the differences because I am not as sensitive to these small changes as you are.

    Regarding the quantities of the ingredients used, infact these INCI lists have to be made in a descending order. It's part of an agreement within the industry that ensures a safe use of cosmetics. Hence the name INCI (International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients). Here is a quote I found, which states all the rules the INCI lists have to comply with:

    [...] Cosmetic, toiletry and perfumery products (cosmetics) are subject to European laws that ensure that they are safe. These laws also require certain information to be printed or labelled on packaging. [...] many years ago the industry agreed on a common naming system called the International Nomenclature for Cosmetic Ingredients, or INCI. [...] An ingredients list should always appear in the same format and use the same conventions:

    - It should be headed by the word INGREDIENTS.
    - Ingredients should be listed in order of weight in the product
    - Ingredient names are from the INCI naming system
    - Perfume mixtures are labelled as "parfum" except for certain specific perfume ingredients which are listed by INCI name
    - Flavours, such as in toothpaste, may be listed as "Aroma"
    - Colours use the Colour Index Number, or CI Number, an international naming system, for example "CI 15580"
    Source: http://www.thefactsabout.co.uk/under...el/content/168

    Even Roja Dove products have to follow these rules, which means that the Aoud fragrances are actually loaded with colorants. And it also confirms that Amber Aoud contains more perfume oil than water, Musk Aoud contains more water than perfume oil. The amounts of perfume oil in each fragrance can differ. A Parfum, or Extrait, usually starts at an oil concentration of 15%, and can go up to 30% or more. Which means Musk Aoud could be at 15%, and Amber Aoud could be at 30%, still both would be 'Parfum'. Maybe the ingredients used in Musk Aoud are more tenacious than those in Amber Aoud, thus a smaller amount of oil was sufficient for Musk Aoud.

    I still remain skeptical about the differences between the Parfum and Crystal Parfum versions. Yes, there is the possibility that colorless aromachemicals are used instead of the naturals, like you pointed out. But I still don't see why such heavy amounts of colorants are used when the natural ingredients are already dark enough according to Mr. Dove. But even with all that talk, I still enjoy his creations, and lately I fell in love with "Diaghilev". At least there is no Crystal version of this one

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Mmmm, Interesting ... You also make very valid points.

    Still, the word "weight" can be interpreted in a variety of ways (yes, I am a formula 1 fan ). The actual density of liquids and solids plays a big part in final weights per volume.

    Do these rules specify which measure are we dealing with? I.e. parts per million, weight per volume, weight percentages, net weight or even absolute weights? The wording does not seem to be very clear and, therefore, open to various interpretations.

    In any case, the actual weight of those colorants may not be as heavy as you think... After all; we are dealing with very minute amounts here. I make perfume in an amateur manner, and the last time I checked, usage of restricted materials that you need to disclose, are in parts per million! Still, my statements are made in an "educated guess" spirit. I am in no hurry to sell my stuff and, I do not follow things "with intent" (it gives me a headache!) so, I could easily be wrong!

    Whatever the case, I do like both versions but, I have a preference for the original formula. To my nose, there are significant differences in their individual odour profile. Like I said, my educated guess is, besides the removal of colorant agents, I am of the opinion that colorless Aromachemicals have replaced natural coloured oils.

    Oh.. Like you , I am also in love with Diaghilev... I have the Extrait Parfum version and, I am awaiting the arrival of an original "vintage" still sealed bottle I have recently purchased!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke View Post
    Thank you, Viffer, you made valid points and I do think that there is the possibility that some naturals are replaced with colorless aromachemicals. Maybe I just can not pick out the differences because I am not as sensitive to these small changes as you are.

    Regarding the quantities of the ingredients used, infact these INCI lists have to be made in a descending order. It's part of an agreement within the industry that ensures a safe use of cosmetics. Hence the name INCI (International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients). Here is a quote I found, which states all the rules the INCI lists have to comply with:


    Source: http://www.thefactsabout.co.uk/under...el/content/168

    Even Roja Dove products have to follow these rules, which means that the Aoud fragrances are actually loaded with colorants. And it also confirms that Amber Aoud contains more perfume oil than water, Musk Aoud contains more water than perfume oil. The amounts of perfume oil in each fragrance can differ. A Parfum, or Extrait, usually starts at an oil concentration of 15%, and can go up to 30% or more. Which means Musk Aoud could be at 15%, and Amber Aoud could be at 30%, still both would be 'Parfum'. Maybe the ingredients used in Musk Aoud are more tenacious than those in Amber Aoud, thus a smaller amount of oil was sufficient for Musk Aoud.

    I still remain skeptical about the differences between the Parfum and Crystal Parfum versions. Yes, there is the possibility that colorless aromachemicals are used instead of the naturals, like you pointed out. But I still don't see why such heavy amounts of colorants are used when the natural ingredients are already dark enough according to Mr. Dove. But even with all that talk, I still enjoy his creations, and lately I fell in love with "Diaghilev". At least there is no Crystal version of this one
    Last edited by Viffer; 15th February 2015 at 12:31 AM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke View Post
    Thank you, Viffer, you made valid points and I do think that there is the possibility that some naturals are replaced with colorless aromachemicals. Maybe I just can not pick out the differences because I am not as sensitive to these small changes as you are.

    Regarding the quantities of the ingredients used, infact these INCI lists have to be made in a descending order. It's part of an agreement within the industry that ensures a safe use of cosmetics. Hence the name INCI (International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients). Here is a quote I found, which states all the rules the INCI lists have to comply with:


    Source: http://www.thefactsabout.co.uk/under...el/content/168

    Even Roja Dove products have to follow these rules, which means that the Aoud fragrances are actually loaded with colorants. And it also confirms that Amber Aoud contains more perfume oil than water, Musk Aoud contains more water than perfume oil. The amounts of perfume oil in each fragrance can differ. A Parfum, or Extrait, usually starts at an oil concentration of 15%, and can go up to 30% or more. Which means Musk Aoud could be at 15%, and Amber Aoud could be at 30%, still both would be 'Parfum'. Maybe the ingredients used in Musk Aoud are more tenacious than those in Amber Aoud, thus a smaller amount of oil was sufficient for Musk Aoud.

    I still remain skeptical about the differences between the Parfum and Crystal Parfum versions. Yes, there is the possibility that colorless aromachemicals are used instead of the naturals, like you pointed out. But I still don't see why such heavy amounts of colorants are used when the natural ingredients are already dark enough according to Mr. Dove. But even with all that talk, I still enjoy his creations, and lately I fell in love with "Diaghilev". At least there is no Crystal version of this one
    Great bit of detective work! Colorants or not I'd still probably buy the Parfum version. It simply looks nicer . Also it could be that the ingredients below the colorants are barely used in the compositions - consequently the perfume isn't necessarily loaded with the stuff.
    Last edited by NeoXerxes; 15th February 2015 at 12:26 AM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Roja Dove Amber Aoud/Crystal

    Quote Originally Posted by Viffer View Post
    Mmmm, Interesting ... You also make very valid points.

    Still, the word "weight" can be interpreted in a variety of ways (yes, I am a formula 1 fan ). The actual density of liquids and solids plays a big part in final weights per volume.

    Do these rules specify which measure are we dealing with? I.e. parts per million, weight per volume, weight percentages, net weight or even absolute weights? The wording does not seem to be very clear and, therefore, open to various interpretations.

    In any case, the actual weight of those colorants may not be as heavy as you think... After all; we are dealing with very minute amounts here. I make perfume in an amateur manner, and the last time I checked, usage of restricted materials that you need to disclose, are in parts per million! Still, my statements are made in an "educated guess" spirit. I am in no hurry to sell my stuff and, I do not follow things "with intent" (it gives me a headache!) so, I could easily be wrong!

    Whatever the case, I do like both versions but, I have a preference for the original formula. To my nose, there are significant differences in their individual odour profile. Like I said, my educated guess is, besides the removal of colorant agents, I am of the opinion that colorless Aromachemicals have replaced natural coloured oils.

    Oh.. Like you , I am also in love with Diaghilev... I have the Extrait Parfum version and, I am awaiting the arrival of an original "vintage" still sealed bottle I have recently purchased!
    Thank you Viffer, it's really interesting that you mentioned the exact measures we don't know about. I tried to find out more, but couldn't find any information that would explain more than I already posted in this thread. It seem the International Nomenclature of Comestic Ingredients is not as transparent and understandable for the consumer as I thought it would be. This also means I have to correct my statement about Roja Doves Aoud fragrances being loaded with colorants. As we don't know exactly which measures are used, all I can claim is: The INCI ingredient lists of Aoud, Amber Aoud and Musk Aoud indicate that they contain more colorants than every other ingredient listed after them. Compared to other INCI lists this is unusual, but doesn't confirm an abundant use of dye. As you said Viffer, we are dealing with tiny amounts, so using the word "loaded" was definitely not the right choice!

    Actually, I got another idea as to why Mr. Dove uses these colorants. Maybe the color if the finished Aoud scents were rather unimpressive, so Mr. Dove decided to use dye to make the colors comply with his idea of excellence regarding Aoud based fragrances, and what they should look like. I was probably a bit quick to judge earlier in the thread. After all, the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

    Congratulations on the vintage bottle of Diaghilev! If I remember correctly, the first version was somewhat dryer with less citrus. Both versions are excellent, the Extrait de Parfum is the one that captured my heart, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoXerxes View Post
    Great bit of detective work! Colorants or not I'd still probably buy the Parfum version. It simply looks nicer . Also it could be that the ingredients below the colorants are barely used in the compositions - consequently the perfume isn't necessarily loaded with the stuff.
    That's an important point I took into consideration above. Thank you

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