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  1. #31

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    For me
    • There are very few unique fragrances, and lots of overlap
    • Most of the "well-known" brands (eg: Creed, Amouage) are overrated
    • Fragrances which do not have a notable wearability factor aren't worth it
    • People want to be complemented, not disgusted, with fragrances
    • Slumberhouse, sans Norne, is completely overrated
    • Niche does NOT = better
    • Amouage's Jubiliation is the most overrated scent I've smelled
    • Generally, tobacco and leather are horrible notes.
    • Amber fragrances rarely change
    • Gourmands are the best type of fragrance because they're familiar, require notable chemistry to replicate smells, appealing, and fun
    1) As far as the designer scents are concerned, this is sadly true I find.
    2) I'm not going to judge this as I have not sampled enough Creed and niche fragrance in general.
    3) I can't quite agree with that. I rarely find an occasion to wear A*Men but I do wear it at home, and I enjoy it. At home you can wear whatever your nose enjoys without worrying about putting someone else's off.
    4) Indeed, but there ARE people who think no fragrance is the best fragrance and we should respect that.
    5) Haven't sampled that one.
    6) See 2.
    7) See 5.
    8) I don't care much for leather but I definitely enjoy well-done tobaccos. Just recently I picked up Avant-Garde by Lanvin, beautiful scent.
    9) It depends but I'm generally not an amber fan.
    10) I don't think there is a "best type of fragrance", I've found one in every category that I would never want to miss again.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    "I think all Creed fragrances are crap"

    "No they aren't"

    "Yes they are"

    "Not"

    "Are"

    (Ting!!)
    "Are not"

    "I'm not going to argue with you"

    "Yes you are"

    "No, I'm not"

    and so on. Straight out of Monty Python.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Reading panic-like-reactions after posting a thread on a fragrance forum about an opinion on the fragrance industry is very disturbing to me.

    We are all human beings with opinions and after all it's just about fragrances

    Keep it cool!

  4. #34
    New Member anrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    The opinion is not controversial at all, it's just personal opinion and everyone has it. And I agree with deadidol...it is probably the way we say it (and the way/dossage we wear the perfume?) which makes it controversial...
    www.eyeofthevoyager.com (owner)

  5. #35

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    "I think all Creed fragrances are crap"

    "No they aren't"

    "Yes they are"

    "Not"

    "Are"

    (Ting!!)
    "Are not"

    "I'm not going to argue with you"

    "Yes you are"

    "No, I'm not"

    and so on. Straight out of Monty Python.

    So right! For any younger members:

    What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

  6. #36
    Dependent james1051's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    So right! For any younger members:

    What a relief, I thought for a moment you might post the 'controversial' scene with M. Creosote!

  7. #37

    Default Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by james1051 View Post
    What a relief, I thought for a moment you might post the 'controversial' scene with M. Creosote!
    No you didn't.
    What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

  8. #38

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    So right! For any younger members:

    Thanks for posting that.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I'll tread lightly(?)

    1. With the exception of SMN Peau d'Espagne I don't like leather notes.
    2. As a non-rose fan, Im having trouble finding a good Oud scent to test.
    3. Aventus, to me, is okay but thats it.
    4. Creed is overrated, to me, anyway.
    5. Why do a lot of noses completely avoid cloves.
    Please cancel my subscription to your issues.
    Currently wearing: Lui by Mazzolari

  10. #40
    Dependent naylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    No you didn't.
    Yes he did.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Probably not that controversial: wish I got into fragrances earlier b/c ifra. I'm amazed none of the houses (or even many banded together, their parent companies, etc) have been able to present a legitimate case against what they are doing. I get the part like not killing animals excessively for a little musk or a gland here and here, but I think they've taken it a bit too far to say the least... And if there is some organized criminal or corporate element behind ifra, well I wonder what will "save" the industry.

    More controversial:
    Over rated and over priced/inflated industry as a whole. Yes I realize there are some exceptions where glass + contents really do cost a lot to make. Still enjoy fragrances though.

    Most people don't actually notice fragrances that much and if they do, it's not at the level most people here seem to... It seems like only 10-20% of the people that I have talked to about the topic of smell in my own life (not basenotes) can really tell or figure out much of what is going on other than "this smells kind of sweet" or " this smells fresh". It doesn't seem to have as big of an impact on most as it probably has on us or that we would imagine it having on most.

    I wonder how many of us can smell as well as we think we may be able to... Kind of like how when a lot of experts blind taste test the same wine in the same bottle in the same type of glass ROTC they think it is something different. (Not that wine experts or those interested in fragrance probably aren't above average in ability related to these things)

  12. #42

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Btw I like threads like this. Not because we see people upset eventually, but because it kind of makes you double take and re-evaluate your own beliefs, supposed knowledge, opinions, etc, hopefully without something like egos or money invested in X item/s getting in the way. aka great way to gain the other side of real perspective that we bury to conform to social standards.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    This one by Body Shop is still occasionally available secondhand.
    Thanks for that!!!
    * * * *

  14. #44
    Basenotes Junkie hoschhti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I personally think that all-natural or mostly natural perfumes are much better than synthetic ones!
    FAVOURITES:

    1. Dia Man
    2. Tawaf
    3. Skin Graft
    4. Vitrum
    5. Norne
    6. Hindu Kush

  15. #45

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Let's see:
    Use the word "controversial."
    List some questions that are likely to cause arguments.
    Step back and see how many people take the bait.

  16. #46
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    You hate amber, I like amber. Who cares?

    Last edited by kumquat; 22nd May 2014 at 10:50 PM.
    Currently wearing: Aperçu by Houbigant

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I have found that there is a LOT Of overlap in fragrance and am sometimes surprised at the claims that, for example Cuir de Russie is worlds different than Cuir de lancome. I like both and think they are similar enough that owning both could be redundant. (As it turns out, I do own both, but I now realize that I don't really need to)

    I do think that sometimes we justify our particular obsession by naming differences so negligible as to be not worth bothering about.

    But, it took me gaining quite a collection to really understand that this was so. AND, I still do it!
    I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.

    My Sales Thread - A Collection Purge

  18. #48

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    1. Definitely lots of scents that smell at least somewhat similar.
    2. Most people have never heard of Creed or Amouage. They do get more attention on BN than many other niche companies.
    3. Well, if you're rich what does it matter? The vast majority of the rest of us aren't going to want to stare at full bottles.
    4. That's probably true for most people, though I don't think anyone wants to be disgusted - that sounds like trolling to me.
    5. Never tried it but it sounds too camphorous for me.
    6. There is no such thing as "better" unless you are more specific.
    7. Never tried it.
    8. My favorites are tobacco and leathers.
    9. Amber-dominant scents tend to bore me, so I rarely wear them, so I don't know if my opinion is of use to the amber scent fan.
    10. It does seem that these days a lot of young people want to smell like vanilla cupcakes, but I couldn't handle that on a regular basis. I really enjoyed Mugler's Cuir A*Men recently, probably because of the dynamism between the gourmand and leather elements - that keeps it enjoyable for hours, but a lot of people seem to forget the scent they are wearing for long periods of time and catch a whiff now and then, so under those circumstance the vanilla cupcake thing might not become cloying to them.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I won't share an opinion but a fact that for some reason everyone wants to ignore but will surely get me banned and it's that skin chemistry and body chemistry do not exist. There are such bogus terms that there isn't even a wikipedia entry for it, there is no definition for it on any language and there is no recognition of the terms as the fragrance community understands them, or in any other understanding in the scientific community. Most perfumers agree it doesn't exist, and thank god it doesn't because it would be a sad, sad reality for fragrance if the painstaking hard work of perfumers just went down the drain because one person ate onions the day before, and that's just a fact and I wish fragrance lovers would wake up to this reality and stop talking about junk science so to speak.

  20. #50

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by narcotica View Post
    I won't share an opinion but a fact that for some reason everyone wants to ignore but will surely get me banned and it's that skin chemistry and body chemistry do not exist. There are such bogus terms that there isn't even a wikipedia entry for it, there is no definition for it on any language and there is no recognition of the terms as the fragrance community understands them, or in any other understanding in the scientific community. Most perfumers agree it doesn't exist, and thank god it doesn't because it would be a sad, sad reality for fragrance if the painstaking hard work of perfumers just went down the drain because one person ate onions the day before, and that's just a fact and I wish fragrance lovers would wake up to this reality and stop talking about junk science so to speak.
    Thank you, the whole "everybody has a different skin chemistry" never made sense to me. I don't see how a fragrance can smell completely different on different people, yet I hear it all the time. "Everybody has a different skin chemistry." Glad I'm not alone to think this theory is hogwash. After all, a fragrance couldn't possibly smell THAT different on one person than another.
    Last edited by Allen-on-Holiday; 23rd May 2014 at 04:18 PM.
    Just because a fragrance is expensive, doesn’t necessarily make it smell better than a cheaper one.

    I can still pray in the U.S.A. (For now, anyway.)
    Currently wearing: Xeryus Rouge by Givenchy

  21. #51

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    If anyone smelled the same fragrance on my sister and myself after five minutes of wearing, then one would be hard pushed to know it was the same fragrance. Call it what you like.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  22. #52
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    If anyone smelled the same fragrance on my sister and myself after five minutes of wearing, then one would be hard pushed to know it was the same fragrance. Call it what you like.
    Yes, this is true. I have dry, pale skin. My husband and my close Perfumista buddy both have oiler, Olive-toned skin. Some scents, florals, for instance, are louder on them, magnified, if you want to call it. Other scents like citrus, get swallowed up on them but sing out on my skin. There are natural acids in the skin, PH balances and so on that factor in. As I'm not a scientist I am not well versed in these matters but I know from experience that different scents smell different on everybody. That's why whenever a new perfume claims "our perfume is special because it smells different on everybody" ; it's baloney, because this is true of ALL perfumes.
    Currently wearing: Aperçu by Houbigant

  23. #53

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Maybe I should be more specific: I agree that a fragrance can smell a LITTLE different on different people, but some SAs lead you to believe it will smell COMPLETELY different, which is why I said it couldn't possibly smell THAT different, only a *little* different.
    Just because a fragrance is expensive, doesn’t necessarily make it smell better than a cheaper one.

    I can still pray in the U.S.A. (For now, anyway.)
    Currently wearing: Xeryus Rouge by Givenchy

  24. #54

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Yes, this is true. I have dry, pale skin. My husband and my close Perfumista buddy both have oiler, Olive-toned skin. Some scents, florals, for instance, are louder on them, magnified, if you want to call it. Other scents like citrus, get swallowed up on them but sing out on my skin. There are natural acids in the skin, PH balances and so on that factor in. As I'm not a scientist I am not well versed in these matters but I know from experience that different scents smell different on everybody. That's why whenever a new perfume claims "our perfume is special because it smells different on everybody" ; it's baloney, because this is true of ALL perfumes.
    nevermind.
    Last edited by narcotica; 23rd May 2014 at 05:09 PM.

  25. #55

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen-at-home View Post
    Maybe I should be more specific: I agree that a fragrance can smell a LITTLE different on different people, but some SAs lead you to believe it will smell COMPLETELY different, which is why I said it couldn't possibly smell THAT different, only a *little* different.
    Perfume is designed to be stable, and to last for at least three years. Perfume is like makeup, skin has no chemicals and doesn't react chemically with anything you put in it, green eyeshadow doesn't become blue on one person's eye and then brown on another one, if that were the case then what would be the point in designing makeup in the first place?

    It is the same with fragrance, it is designed to retain its IDENTITY regardless of who is wearing it. Otherwise the whole endeavor is beyond pointless and thank goodness that is not the case. The only thing that can affect fragrance would be the amount of oil in skin but only in the evaporation rate. A person with oily skin will have their scent develop a little longer, and a person with dry skin may feel it evaporates faster, but it is still the same recognizable smell on everybody.

  26. #56
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    The differences are slight and probably only detectable to someone who has been sniffing scent for a very long time. Generally, yes, they all retain their basic form.
    Currently wearing: Aperçu by Houbigant

  27. #57

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by narcotica View Post
    Perfume is designed to be stable, and to last for at least three years. Perfume is like makeup, skin has no chemicals and doesn't react chemically with anything you put in it, green eyeshadow doesn't become blue on one person's eye and then brown on another one, if that were the case then what would be the point in designing makeup in the first place?
    This was recently discussed in another thread. When you're dealing with hard-core industrial strength aromachemicals, this is largely true—damascone beta is going to smell like damascone beta no matter what it touches, so the analogy of eyeshadow is pretty spot-on. With certain naturals, there are inherent shifts that take place within the scent profile itself, so a more appropriate analogy might be that it's kind of like wearing a shimmery material that catches the light—it appears to vary. The phenomenon does have a term (terroir) and is discussed within the industry, but it tends not to relate to mass-produced commercial stuff, which you seem to be referring to. There are many variables involved with perceived difference, but something as simple as body temperature can speed up / slow down diffusion creating a difference experience on different wearers.

  28. #58

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Not generally, always. I also hope people would just erase "skin chemistry" and "body chemistry" from their vocabularies, I don't mean this as an offense, but anyone that says that or uses those terms come across negatively. I read on fragrantica once, someone said that perfume is ABSORBED into the skin and then released and that's what you smell and that's how it changes from person to person. Well, that is not how science works. Perfume is art and science, and perfume is never absorbed by the skin, it's never metabolized by the body, the formula of perfume remains virtually intact on any skin. It's never absorbed into the body, and if there are compounds absorbed into the body, they are not the aromachemicals I can assure you. It's just something that needs to be said.

    To my dismay, houses like Guerlain and fragrancesoftheworld perpetuate this myth so I guess it's virtually impossible to stop the huge misinformation out there but you have to start somewhere. It's so ingrained that it's mentioned everytime someone mentions perfume, and I always try to correct people but sometimes I don't say anything because I feel so embarrassed for the person, they are so convinced of something that doesn't exist and is not supported by science in any way.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by narcotica View Post
    nevermind.

  30. #60

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    This was recently discussed in another thread. When you're dealing with hard-core industrial strength aromachemicals, this is largely true—damascone beta is going to smell like damascone beta no matter what it touches, so the analogy of eyeshadow is pretty spot-on. With certain naturals, there are inherent shifts that take place within the scent profile itself, so a more appropriate analogy might be that it's kind of like wearing a shimmery material that catches the light—it appears to vary. The phenomenon does have a term (terroir) and is discussed within the industry, but it tends not to relate to mass-produced commercial stuff, which you seem to be referring to. There are many variables involved with perceived difference, but something as simple as body temperature can speed up / slow down diffusion creating a difference experience on different wearers.
    Yes but those are very minor changes in the rate of evaporation because of temperature, or even climate, but if we talk about the scent profile if you will, the identity of the perfume, it remains the same and unchanged from person to person. It's simply designed to be that way, and it has to. Otherwise what is Shalimar? What is No 5? How can it be considered an art form if it's not stable enough to hold its identity no matter what? It would be like the Mona Lisa melting and shifting colors and shapes depending on who sees it, and that doesn't happen.

    There is also a matter of survival here. Scent cannot possibly be so different from person to person because then we would be in jeopardy all the time. What would happen to people if the scent of gas smelled like roses to some and then it would smell of lime to other people? I guess you would die, one would never be able to spot a gas leak, fires and so on. So if we smell smoke the same, because we are designed to be finetuned to the physical world and this is across the board unless you are impaired, then how come this is "suspended" when it comes to perfume and the same perfume smells like two different things to people, and not even on the skin but on strips! I don't believe it, it's simply not supported by science.

    Yes, there are some differences from people to people, for instance some people don't pass the asparagus test, you know, urine smelling different after eating asparagus and so on, but it's not incidental to perfume.

    The key word in here is stability. Perfume is stable, it NEEDS to be, otherwise it can't count as artform, it couldn't even count as a functional product of any way, in other words, it can't change from skin to skin.

    The industry really perpetuates this myth and I can't see why, it's time for it to be debunked really.

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