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  1. #1
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    Default Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    This is going to be interesting, but I'm curious about some controversial opinions (meaning, sentiments you have that most would disagree with) regarding the fragrance industry.

    For me
    • There are very few unique fragrances, and lots of overlap
    • Most of the "well-known" brands (eg: Creed, Amouage) are overrated
    • Fragrances which do not have a notable wearability factor aren't worth it
    • People want to be complemented, not disgusted, with fragrances
    • Slumberhouse, sans Norne, is completely overrated
    • Niche does NOT = better
    • Amouage's Jubiliation is the most overrated scent I've smelled
    • Generally, tobacco and leather are horrible notes.
    • Amber fragrances rarely change
    • Gourmands are the best type of fragrance because they're familiar, require notable chemistry to replicate smells, appealing, and fun
    Last edited by noideawhatimsaying; 8th May 2014 at 03:55 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Disagree with almost al of these, but yes, Creed is one of the saddest episodes ever in modern perfumery. Amouage smells a bit overrated to me too, but it's not bad.
    My current top five:

    Dior - Leather Oud
    Carven - Pour Homme
    Guerlain - Coriolan
    Yves Saint Laurent - Jazz Prestige
    Azzaro - Pour Homme (vtg)

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Maillard View Post
    Disagree with almost al of these, but yes, Creed is one of the saddest episodes ever in modern perfumery. Amouage smells a bit overrated to me too, but it's not bad.
    Hence why they're controversial opinions It's funny, your top 5 are the complete opposite of my preferences, too. Controversial!

    And I don't get Amouage is horrible. Nothing sticks out in their entire lineup to me - it's generic smells with incense. Gold Man = baby powder, Memoir Man = green incense, and Jubilation - offensively light nasty oriental smell.

    Creed's only hit with me is VIW and Aventus, and even then Batucuda does VIW 10x better for 1/2 the price. Aventus I dig, tho. MI, GIT, etc are garbage.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    If Creed is one of the saddest episodes of modern perfumery Colin, would you care to explain why Xerjoff and Bond No 9 would want to rip off Silver Mountain Water?

    Why would oh holy one Guerlain start theming everything with Lime 2 years after there VIW release, and why would Tom Ford then again follow suit another year later and lartisan perfumer?

    Why would Micallef and everyone else jump on the Pineapple bandwagon.

    How was Green Irish Tweed capable of doing what it did to the world?

    Answers would be nice please...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    For me: about 90% of what seems to get posted around here these days
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I'll just say this for what it's worth:

    A thread similar (identical) to this was started last year that led to several people being banned. The thread had no value other than to antagonize—and that's exactly what it did. If this thread really must be repeated again (really?), I'd strongly urge people to remember that these "opinions" are rarely based on logic, evidence, or facts—hence them being opinions.

    If you really must participate in this, proceed with caution, keep it reasonable, and don't try to contend with others' "opinions"—no matter how irrational or trolly they seem.
    Last edited by deadidol; 8th May 2014 at 05:11 PM.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Good idea of keeping it general, and open (and not talk here about specific brands - or fights will start).

    So about the general perceptions:
    1) I disagree that there are no unique scents. Part of the appeal of niche is that it expands choice. But there are thousands of scents around, so lots of overlaps are to be expected.
    2) Wearability is for the most part based on one's own preferences. There are very few fragrances that are objectively unwearable. Those very few can be enjoyed as a conceptual exercise on a strip of paper, if one is so interested.
    3) As above, disgusted is for the most part based on personal preferences, save for the exceptional cases discussed. In my experience, compliements are mostly a social form of communication, and happen more if one's scent is particularly notable, whether the complimenter likes it or not.
    4) agree that niche does not equal better. Niche simply expands choices tremendously.

    cacio

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    as a conceptual exercise on a strip of paper, if one is so interested.
    Could you take a minute and indulge me as to why one would use a strip rather than skin?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Bond No 9 is the most successful con job is perfume history, ripping off fragrance after fragrance charging high end prices whilst still getting classed as a legitimate niche house.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSamourai View Post
    Bond No 9 is the most successful con job is perfume history, ripping off fragrance after fragrance charging high end prices whilst still getting classed as a legitimate niche house.
    Are you from New York? Their main store is huge! Yeah, they charge quite a bit for how many billions they make (and how awful most of them are). New Haarlem is awesome, tho.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    I'll just say this for what it's worth:

    A thread similar (identical) to this was started last year that led to several people being banned. The thread had no value other than to antagonize—and that's exactly what it did. If this thread really must be repeated again (really?), I'd strongly urge people to remember that these "opinions" are rarely based on logic, evidence, or facts—hence them being opinions.

    If you really must participate in this, proceed with caution, keep it reasonable, and don't try to contend with others' "opinions"—no matter how irrational or trolly they seem.
    IMO, and respectfully, if an identical thread was started and caused trouble, and the purpose (as seems to be the case) is to antagonize, why not just delete this thread rather than indulge the OP who feeds on stirring the pot? I personally don't think threads like this contribute in a positive way to the Basenotes Experience.

    I know some will say "if you don't like it, don't read it" but the title sounded more promising, and now I have read it and I want my 2 minutes back. Also it will continue to take up space on the page.

    That's my "controversial" opinion.
    Behemoth cut a slice of pineapple, salted it, peppered it, ate it, and then tossed off a second glass of alcohol so dashingly that everyone applauded.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    Could you take a minute and indulge me as to why one would use a strip rather than skin?

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/183...de-amp-Summary

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    IMO, and respectfully, if an identical thread was started and caused trouble, and the purpose (as seems to be the case) is to antagonize, why not just delete this thread rather than indulge the OP who feeds on stirring the pot?
    My intent is not to stir the pot. In fact, I don't know how anyone can get upset at another person's 100% opinion. Here, I hoped to just see and appreciate the differences in our views of fragrance.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    My intent is not to stir the pot. In fact, I don't know how anyone can get upset at another person's 100% opinion.
    Did you see what happened the last time this was attempted? If you start a thread saying Creed / Amouage etc are overrated, you're going to get severe pushback. But also ask yourself what exactly does it contribute to bash things that people like in such a manner.

    It's one thing to dress this up as "let's celebrate our differences of opinion" but it's another thing entirely to provoke people by throwing out claims that call their taste into question for no other reason than that.

    Here's my suggestion: let's see how this thread pans out over the next 24 hours and go from there. There's no way we're going to deal with the nonsense that exploded the last time this was attempted. If people can approach this in the manner that Cacio demonstrated above, then that's great. But if this becomes "Creed sux because I said so," then nothing of value is contributed and I'd harbor that it simply diminishes people's enjoyment of the site.

    Let's try it and see how it goes, but I'd love to hear some thoughts about how such negative perspectives (they're hardly "controversial"—they're just negative) can provide any value outside of the "isn't it great that we all have opinions (he he he)" type platitudes.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Let's try it and see how it goes, but I'd love to hear some thoughts about how such negative perspectives (they're hardly "controversial"—they're just negative) can provide any value outside of the "isn't it great that we all have opinions (he he he)" type platitudes.
    How would you define a controversial opinion?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    How would you define a controversial opinion?
    Good point! It's something that people are passionate about and that has no definitive right or wrong.

    But in order to define a controversial opinion successfully, backing up it up with valid and logical reasoning is a smart move. Otherwise all you end up with are negative claims designed to get people riled up. Controversial topics are topics that initiate fights of various kinds. For proof, see the last version of this thread. And again, I reiterate, we're not going through what we went through last year again.

    State your controversial topic, but give reasonable evidence as to why you feel that way. Let's keep Basenotes as a productive rather than destructive place. The last iteration of this was nothing short of destructive and resulted in a slew of bans (which, it turns out, was what the OP was after all along).
    Last edited by deadidol; 8th May 2014 at 07:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Let me stick my two cents in. Sometimes you can bite your tongue and sometimes not. I believe controversy is not a bad thing in itself. I do believe it can lead to good and spirited discussions if the intent is not to inflame. Anything that someone can take as an affront...perhaps should be worded very carefully. Calling something garbage....let lets out any discussion for me. It comes across as a mind made up and not willing to listen. Is my house garbage? Are my tattoos garbage? My dog? My car? You get the idea.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Sorry. I don't mean to make people feel like they should be stepping on egg shells around this thread, but just don't brawl over it. The last one was a blood bath and we don't have that many mop buckets available to us right now.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    • Generally, tobacco and leather are horrible notes.
    These are some of the notes that tend to give me the most pleasure in a fragrance.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    These are some of the notes that tend to give me the most pleasure in a fragrance.
    How interesting! Any recommendations? From my sampling, I avoid most tobaccos because I really just smell ashtray (eg: Les Nombres d'Or Cuir Mona di Orio).

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    How interesting! Any recommendations? From my sampling, I avoid most tobaccos because I really just smell ashtray (eg: Les Nombres d'Or Cuir Mona di Orio).
    I'd suggest Cuir Tabac by David Jourquin for one who tends to not like either of the two notes. It's well done for a leather and tobacco mix.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    There's a lot of old fougères which have glorious notes of leather and tobacco, from Aramis, to Moschino, to Quorum... powerful stuff which does not even compare to nowadays' pale and mute safraleine "leather-like" candies!
    My current top five:

    Dior - Leather Oud
    Carven - Pour Homme
    Guerlain - Coriolan
    Yves Saint Laurent - Jazz Prestige
    Azzaro - Pour Homme (vtg)

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    My fragrance reviews | Ye Olde Civet Cat

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Maillard View Post
    There's a lot of old fougères which have glorious notes of leather and tobacco, from Aramis, to Moschino, to Quorum... powerful stuff which does not even compare to nowadays' pale and mute safraleine "leather-like" candies!
    This is the kind of controversy I am interested in; whether or not perfumery can thrive even with the draconian predations of IFRA and their ilk. I don't feel certain one way or another, because I have so little experience with the old classics such as you mention. I only know that I think modern leathers such as Leather Oud, Rien and Patchouli 24 (well, the old unrectified birch tar version, anyway, haven't smelled the new) are great. The opinion amongst those with more experience seems to be that IFRA is succeeding in destroying perfumery, but I wonder whether some of that opinion is reaction to the loss of some personal favorites?
    Behemoth cut a slice of pineapple, salted it, peppered it, ate it, and then tossed off a second glass of alcohol so dashingly that everyone applauded.

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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    This is going to be interesting, but I'm curious about some controversial opinions (meaning, sentiments you have that most would disagree with) regarding the fragrance industry.

    For me
    • Gourmands are the best type of fragrance because they're familiar, require notable chemistry to replicate smells, appealing, and fun
    Would a mediocre example of a 'Gourmand' be better than an excellent example of something else?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by zatarain View Post
    This is the kind of controversy I am interested in; whether or not perfumery can thrive even with the draconian predations of IFRA and their ilk. I don't feel certain one way or another, because I have so little experience with the old classics such as you mention. I only know that I think modern leathers such as Leather Oud, Rien and Patchouli 24 (well, the old unrectified birch tar version, anyway, haven't smelled the new) are great. The opinion amongst those with more experience seems to be that IFRA is succeeding in destroying perfumery, but I wonder whether some of that opinion is reaction to the loss of some personal favorites?

    Yes, that's quite a "broad" matter... surely IFRA is "a part of the problem" (or better said: the issue comes when regulatory institutions like the EU take those bollocks for good), but there's more than that. Probably all the "system" has changed... I am given to understand (since I'm quite young!) that perfumery was rather different once, for example there was less brands than today, and they all took much more time to work on a scent. So firms and companies had still broad budgets, but they could use them to work on 1 scent instead of 10 - and far more freely than today in terms of materials. Plus I also think there wasn't this idiotic star system around famous noses. If today a brand "must" have several new scents per year (or, however, surely more than "once new in a while") to be competitive, I see why they use cheaper stuff to make them! So part is due to IFRA, which also forced brands to reformulate and water down scents, but part is also due to a general - worse - trend of the industry, perhaps.
    Last edited by Colin Maillard; 8th May 2014 at 09:54 PM.
    My current top five:

    Dior - Leather Oud
    Carven - Pour Homme
    Guerlain - Coriolan
    Yves Saint Laurent - Jazz Prestige
    Azzaro - Pour Homme (vtg)

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Personally, I really love amouage while I have not been led to purchase any creed at all (perhaps because my favorite creed specialist keeps feeding me carded samples, so if I feel like wearing creed, I have some in stock)

    I honestly wish I had discovered fragrances and basenotes just a couple if years earlier, perhaps 2009, so I could have already purchased many of my favorites before IFRA.

    I find quite a few mall/designer scents that I like as much or more than some highly regarded niche frags, like Fan di Fendi Assoluto - which gets zero love here.

    Personally, I don't have many controversial opinions nor do I feel that the industry is in decline. There are entire worlds of interesting frags out there, and only my wallet is stopping me from experiencing them.

    Step one : we admitted we were powerless over fragrances and our finances had become unmanageable ;-)


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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    When I happen upon threads like these, in a flight of ideas, I wonder just what motivated the OP. I assume it's because the OP has all-too-often seen that his/her opinion does not correspond to those of others, at any given time or through time, and there is a frustration. That frustration is needless as, in all things so subjective, there is but opinion. The only facts existing are pretty much relegated to the weight and dimensions of the bottle and, if gc/ms is done*, what's inside the bottle. Everything else is pretty much just opinion: some educated, informed and credible; others not so much. And this, of course, is just my opinion.

    * I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of gc/ms, yet would not at all be surprised to learn that there are limitations as to exactly what a good gc/ms analysis will get you... otherwise, there'd be more even closer smell-a-likes (e.g. Fresco/Aventus, ???/AdG, ???/A*Men) than one could shake a stick at.
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  28. #28

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    How interesting! Any recommendations? From my sampling, I avoid most tobaccos because I really just smell ashtray (eg: Les Nombres d'Or Cuir Mona di Orio).
    The pure tobacco flower isn't like that. It is near narcotic like a deep jasmine-esque tobacco. No smoke. Can't think of a fragrance for a moment. There was Fresh Tobacco flower but it isn't current.
    Last edited by mumsy; 8th May 2014 at 11:07 PM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    The pure tobacco flower isn't like that. It is near narcotic like a deep jasmine-esque tobacco. No smoke. Can't think of a fragrance for a moment. There was Fresh Tobacco flower but it isn't current.
    Very interesting! I think this would be right up my alley. I love nature's "floral flankers" of the more familiar scents of fruits / leaves / bark, and I'm a huge fan of tobacco scents.
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    This one by Body Shop is still occasionally available secondhand.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    For me
    • There are very few unique fragrances, and lots of overlap
    • Most of the "well-known" brands (eg: Creed, Amouage) are overrated
    • Fragrances which do not have a notable wearability factor aren't worth it
    • People want to be complemented, not disgusted, with fragrances
    • Slumberhouse, sans Norne, is completely overrated
    • Niche does NOT = better
    • Amouage's Jubiliation is the most overrated scent I've smelled
    • Generally, tobacco and leather are horrible notes.
    • Amber fragrances rarely change
    • Gourmands are the best type of fragrance because they're familiar, require notable chemistry to replicate smells, appealing, and fun
    1) As far as the designer scents are concerned, this is sadly true I find.
    2) I'm not going to judge this as I have not sampled enough Creed and niche fragrance in general.
    3) I can't quite agree with that. I rarely find an occasion to wear A*Men but I do wear it at home, and I enjoy it. At home you can wear whatever your nose enjoys without worrying about putting someone else's off.
    4) Indeed, but there ARE people who think no fragrance is the best fragrance and we should respect that.
    5) Haven't sampled that one.
    6) See 2.
    7) See 5.
    8) I don't care much for leather but I definitely enjoy well-done tobaccos. Just recently I picked up Avant-Garde by Lanvin, beautiful scent.
    9) It depends but I'm generally not an amber fan.
    10) I don't think there is a "best type of fragrance", I've found one in every category that I would never want to miss again.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    "I think all Creed fragrances are crap"

    "No they aren't"

    "Yes they are"

    "Not"

    "Are"

    (Ting!!)
    "Are not"

    "I'm not going to argue with you"

    "Yes you are"

    "No, I'm not"

    and so on. Straight out of Monty Python.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Reading panic-like-reactions after posting a thread on a fragrance forum about an opinion on the fragrance industry is very disturbing to me.

    We are all human beings with opinions and after all it's just about fragrances

    Keep it cool!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    The opinion is not controversial at all, it's just personal opinion and everyone has it. And I agree with deadidol...it is probably the way we say it (and the way/dossage we wear the perfume?) which makes it controversial...
    www.eyeofthevoyager.com (owner)

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    "I think all Creed fragrances are crap"

    "No they aren't"

    "Yes they are"

    "Not"

    "Are"

    (Ting!!)
    "Are not"

    "I'm not going to argue with you"

    "Yes you are"

    "No, I'm not"

    and so on. Straight out of Monty Python.

    So right! For any younger members:

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  36. #36
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    So right! For any younger members:

    What a relief, I thought for a moment you might post the 'controversial' scene with M. Creosote!

  37. #37
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    Default Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by james1051 View Post
    What a relief, I thought for a moment you might post the 'controversial' scene with M. Creosote!
    No you didn't.
    “Accept His Noodly Magnificence into your heart and ye shall forever be free.” Ragu
    .

  38. #38

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    So right! For any younger members:

    Thanks for posting that.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I'll tread lightly(?)

    1. With the exception of SMN Peau d'Espagne I don't like leather notes.
    2. As a non-rose fan, Im having trouble finding a good Oud scent to test.
    3. Aventus, to me, is okay but thats it.
    4. Creed is overrated, to me, anyway.
    5. Why do a lot of noses completely avoid cloves.
    I wonder if he's playing Thin Lizzard?

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    No you didn't.
    Yes he did.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Probably not that controversial: wish I got into fragrances earlier b/c ifra. I'm amazed none of the houses (or even many banded together, their parent companies, etc) have been able to present a legitimate case against what they are doing. I get the part like not killing animals excessively for a little musk or a gland here and here, but I think they've taken it a bit too far to say the least... And if there is some organized criminal or corporate element behind ifra, well I wonder what will "save" the industry.

    More controversial:
    Over rated and over priced/inflated industry as a whole. Yes I realize there are some exceptions where glass + contents really do cost a lot to make. Still enjoy fragrances though.

    Most people don't actually notice fragrances that much and if they do, it's not at the level most people here seem to... It seems like only 10-20% of the people that I have talked to about the topic of smell in my own life (not basenotes) can really tell or figure out much of what is going on other than "this smells kind of sweet" or " this smells fresh". It doesn't seem to have as big of an impact on most as it probably has on us or that we would imagine it having on most.

    I wonder how many of us can smell as well as we think we may be able to... Kind of like how when a lot of experts blind taste test the same wine in the same bottle in the same type of glass ROTC they think it is something different. (Not that wine experts or those interested in fragrance probably aren't above average in ability related to these things)

  42. #42

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Btw I like threads like this. Not because we see people upset eventually, but because it kind of makes you double take and re-evaluate your own beliefs, supposed knowledge, opinions, etc, hopefully without something like egos or money invested in X item/s getting in the way. aka great way to gain the other side of real perspective that we bury to conform to social standards.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    This one by Body Shop is still occasionally available secondhand.
    Thanks for that!!!
    * * * *

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I personally think that all-natural or mostly natural perfumes are much better than synthetic ones!
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  45. #45

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Let's see:
    Use the word "controversial."
    List some questions that are likely to cause arguments.
    Step back and see how many people take the bait.

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    You hate amber, I like amber. Who cares?

    Last edited by kumquat; 22nd May 2014 at 11:50 PM.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I have found that there is a LOT Of overlap in fragrance and am sometimes surprised at the claims that, for example Cuir de Russie is worlds different than Cuir de lancome. I like both and think they are similar enough that owning both could be redundant. (As it turns out, I do own both, but I now realize that I don't really need to)

    I do think that sometimes we justify our particular obsession by naming differences so negligible as to be not worth bothering about.

    But, it took me gaining quite a collection to really understand that this was so. AND, I still do it!
    I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.

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  48. #48

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    1. Definitely lots of scents that smell at least somewhat similar.
    2. Most people have never heard of Creed or Amouage. They do get more attention on BN than many other niche companies.
    3. Well, if you're rich what does it matter? The vast majority of the rest of us aren't going to want to stare at full bottles.
    4. That's probably true for most people, though I don't think anyone wants to be disgusted - that sounds like trolling to me.
    5. Never tried it but it sounds too camphorous for me.
    6. There is no such thing as "better" unless you are more specific.
    7. Never tried it.
    8. My favorites are tobacco and leathers.
    9. Amber-dominant scents tend to bore me, so I rarely wear them, so I don't know if my opinion is of use to the amber scent fan.
    10. It does seem that these days a lot of young people want to smell like vanilla cupcakes, but I couldn't handle that on a regular basis. I really enjoyed Mugler's Cuir A*Men recently, probably because of the dynamism between the gourmand and leather elements - that keeps it enjoyable for hours, but a lot of people seem to forget the scent they are wearing for long periods of time and catch a whiff now and then, so under those circumstance the vanilla cupcake thing might not become cloying to them.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    I won't share an opinion but a fact that for some reason everyone wants to ignore but will surely get me banned and it's that skin chemistry and body chemistry do not exist. There are such bogus terms that there isn't even a wikipedia entry for it, there is no definition for it on any language and there is no recognition of the terms as the fragrance community understands them, or in any other understanding in the scientific community. Most perfumers agree it doesn't exist, and thank god it doesn't because it would be a sad, sad reality for fragrance if the painstaking hard work of perfumers just went down the drain because one person ate onions the day before, and that's just a fact and I wish fragrance lovers would wake up to this reality and stop talking about junk science so to speak.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by narcotica View Post
    I won't share an opinion but a fact that for some reason everyone wants to ignore but will surely get me banned and it's that skin chemistry and body chemistry do not exist. There are such bogus terms that there isn't even a wikipedia entry for it, there is no definition for it on any language and there is no recognition of the terms as the fragrance community understands them, or in any other understanding in the scientific community. Most perfumers agree it doesn't exist, and thank god it doesn't because it would be a sad, sad reality for fragrance if the painstaking hard work of perfumers just went down the drain because one person ate onions the day before, and that's just a fact and I wish fragrance lovers would wake up to this reality and stop talking about junk science so to speak.
    Thank you, the whole "everybody has a different skin chemistry" never made sense to me. I don't see how a fragrance can smell completely different on different people, yet I hear it all the time. "Everybody has a different skin chemistry." Glad I'm not alone to think this theory is hogwash. After all, a fragrance couldn't possibly smell THAT different on one person than another.
    Last edited by Allen-on-Holiday; 23rd May 2014 at 05:18 PM.
    Just because a fragrance is expensive, doesn’t necessarily make it smell better than a cheaper one.

    Current favorites:

    • Spicebomb

    • Sienne L'Hiver

  51. #51

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    If anyone smelled the same fragrance on my sister and myself after five minutes of wearing, then one would be hard pushed to know it was the same fragrance. Call it what you like.

  52. #52
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    If anyone smelled the same fragrance on my sister and myself after five minutes of wearing, then one would be hard pushed to know it was the same fragrance. Call it what you like.
    Yes, this is true. I have dry, pale skin. My husband and my close Perfumista buddy both have oiler, Olive-toned skin. Some scents, florals, for instance, are louder on them, magnified, if you want to call it. Other scents like citrus, get swallowed up on them but sing out on my skin. There are natural acids in the skin, PH balances and so on that factor in. As I'm not a scientist I am not well versed in these matters but I know from experience that different scents smell different on everybody. That's why whenever a new perfume claims "our perfume is special because it smells different on everybody" ; it's baloney, because this is true of ALL perfumes.

  53. #53
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Maybe I should be more specific: I agree that a fragrance can smell a LITTLE different on different people, but some SAs lead you to believe it will smell COMPLETELY different, which is why I said it couldn't possibly smell THAT different, only a *little* different.
    Just because a fragrance is expensive, doesn’t necessarily make it smell better than a cheaper one.

    Current favorites:

    • Spicebomb

    • Sienne L'Hiver

  54. #54

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Yes, this is true. I have dry, pale skin. My husband and my close Perfumista buddy both have oiler, Olive-toned skin. Some scents, florals, for instance, are louder on them, magnified, if you want to call it. Other scents like citrus, get swallowed up on them but sing out on my skin. There are natural acids in the skin, PH balances and so on that factor in. As I'm not a scientist I am not well versed in these matters but I know from experience that different scents smell different on everybody. That's why whenever a new perfume claims "our perfume is special because it smells different on everybody" ; it's baloney, because this is true of ALL perfumes.
    nevermind.
    Last edited by narcotica; 23rd May 2014 at 06:09 PM.

  55. #55

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen-at-home View Post
    Maybe I should be more specific: I agree that a fragrance can smell a LITTLE different on different people, but some SAs lead you to believe it will smell COMPLETELY different, which is why I said it couldn't possibly smell THAT different, only a *little* different.
    Perfume is designed to be stable, and to last for at least three years. Perfume is like makeup, skin has no chemicals and doesn't react chemically with anything you put in it, green eyeshadow doesn't become blue on one person's eye and then brown on another one, if that were the case then what would be the point in designing makeup in the first place?

    It is the same with fragrance, it is designed to retain its IDENTITY regardless of who is wearing it. Otherwise the whole endeavor is beyond pointless and thank goodness that is not the case. The only thing that can affect fragrance would be the amount of oil in skin but only in the evaporation rate. A person with oily skin will have their scent develop a little longer, and a person with dry skin may feel it evaporates faster, but it is still the same recognizable smell on everybody.

  56. #56
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    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    The differences are slight and probably only detectable to someone who has been sniffing scent for a very long time. Generally, yes, they all retain their basic form.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by narcotica View Post
    Perfume is designed to be stable, and to last for at least three years. Perfume is like makeup, skin has no chemicals and doesn't react chemically with anything you put in it, green eyeshadow doesn't become blue on one person's eye and then brown on another one, if that were the case then what would be the point in designing makeup in the first place?
    This was recently discussed in another thread. When you're dealing with hard-core industrial strength aromachemicals, this is largely true—damascone beta is going to smell like damascone beta no matter what it touches, so the analogy of eyeshadow is pretty spot-on. With certain naturals, there are inherent shifts that take place within the scent profile itself, so a more appropriate analogy might be that it's kind of like wearing a shimmery material that catches the light—it appears to vary. The phenomenon does have a term (terroir) and is discussed within the industry, but it tends not to relate to mass-produced commercial stuff, which you seem to be referring to. There are many variables involved with perceived difference, but something as simple as body temperature can speed up / slow down diffusion creating a difference experience on different wearers.

  58. #58

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Not generally, always. I also hope people would just erase "skin chemistry" and "body chemistry" from their vocabularies, I don't mean this as an offense, but anyone that says that or uses those terms come across negatively. I read on fragrantica once, someone said that perfume is ABSORBED into the skin and then released and that's what you smell and that's how it changes from person to person. Well, that is not how science works. Perfume is art and science, and perfume is never absorbed by the skin, it's never metabolized by the body, the formula of perfume remains virtually intact on any skin. It's never absorbed into the body, and if there are compounds absorbed into the body, they are not the aromachemicals I can assure you. It's just something that needs to be said.

    To my dismay, houses like Guerlain and fragrancesoftheworld perpetuate this myth so I guess it's virtually impossible to stop the huge misinformation out there but you have to start somewhere. It's so ingrained that it's mentioned everytime someone mentions perfume, and I always try to correct people but sometimes I don't say anything because I feel so embarrassed for the person, they are so convinced of something that doesn't exist and is not supported by science in any way.

  59. #59

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by narcotica View Post
    nevermind.

  60. #60

    Default Re: Controversial opinions on fragrances and its industry: Let's share!

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    This was recently discussed in another thread. When you're dealing with hard-core industrial strength aromachemicals, this is largely true—damascone beta is going to smell like damascone beta no matter what it touches, so the analogy of eyeshadow is pretty spot-on. With certain naturals, there are inherent shifts that take place within the scent profile itself, so a more appropriate analogy might be that it's kind of like wearing a shimmery material that catches the light—it appears to vary. The phenomenon does have a term (terroir) and is discussed within the industry, but it tends not to relate to mass-produced commercial stuff, which you seem to be referring to. There are many variables involved with perceived difference, but something as simple as body temperature can speed up / slow down diffusion creating a difference experience on different wearers.
    Yes but those are very minor changes in the rate of evaporation because of temperature, or even climate, but if we talk about the scent profile if you will, the identity of the perfume, it remains the same and unchanged from person to person. It's simply designed to be that way, and it has to. Otherwise what is Shalimar? What is No 5? How can it be considered an art form if it's not stable enough to hold its identity no matter what? It would be like the Mona Lisa melting and shifting colors and shapes depending on who sees it, and that doesn't happen.

    There is also a matter of survival here. Scent cannot possibly be so different from person to person because then we would be in jeopardy all the time. What would happen to people if the scent of gas smelled like roses to some and then it would smell of lime to other people? I guess you would die, one would never be able to spot a gas leak, fires and so on. So if we smell smoke the same, because we are designed to be finetuned to the physical world and this is across the board unless you are impaired, then how come this is "suspended" when it comes to perfume and the same perfume smells like two different things to people, and not even on the skin but on strips! I don't believe it, it's simply not supported by science.

    Yes, there are some differences from people to people, for instance some people don't pass the asparagus test, you know, urine smelling different after eating asparagus and so on, but it's not incidental to perfume.

    The key word in here is stability. Perfume is stable, it NEEDS to be, otherwise it can't count as artform, it couldn't even count as a functional product of any way, in other words, it can't change from skin to skin.

    The industry really perpetuates this myth and I can't see why, it's time for it to be debunked really.

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