Code of Conduct
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 56 of 56
  1. #31

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Graphite,just sent you a pm.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    The past days I was wearing aldron at 10%. At 100% there is a masculinity to it that leaves me a bit ambivalent, but at this moderate dilution it's amazing. It smells of skin and the lover's shirt after he wore it one day. An astonishingly sensual odorant. I can totally imagine this chem to fit into a beach scent.

    I personally find ambroxan off-putting. Maybe I am over sensitive to it but I perceive it as dominant in many fragrances (A. Goutal Ambre Fétiche for example).
    But I will follow the advice here and give it a try in homeopathic concentration.
    Be careful using Aldron, it is one of those ingredients that you either can hardly smell, or is overpowering. I have known at several women who could not stand the smell; in one case the woman had to leave the room when someone opened the bottle. She described the smell as vile, stale sweat, and thought it horrible. It is a material that divides.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I've now made a 0.5% ambroxan solution, and it seems the best concentration for me, better than 0.1% and better than 1%.
    I think in a blend I will use it at 0.2% of the finished product, as a solinote 0.5% is perfect for me.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Stephan, glad you have found a mix that you are happy with.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    David thank you, will try using Aldron in homeopathic proportions when I get it. Notice taken.




    Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk

  6. #36

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Ambroxan is not considered an animal note, nor is it derived from an animal starting material, and even if it were why would it interact with skin bacteria any more than any other substance put on your skin. Ambroxan is made from a chemical found in Clary Sage Absolute.
    I consider ambergris an animal note, and I see no reason why a constituent of ambergris could not also be considered an animal note.

    Mammalian animal notes in nature are often the result of reactions involving native bacteria, some of which are bidirectional as well. That is why it might react.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    The past days I was wearing aldron at 10%. At 100% there is a masculinity to it that leaves me a bit ambivalent, but at this moderate dilution it's amazing. It smells of skin and the lover's shirt after he wore it one day. An astonishingly sensual odorant. I can totally imagine this chem to fit into a beach scent.

    I personally find ambroxan off-putting. Maybe I am over sensitive to it but I perceive it as dominant in many fragrances (A. Goutal Ambre Fétiche for example).
    But I will follow the advice here and give it a try in homeopathic concentration.
    Aldron is the same as Aldron Dil? You wore it at 10%?! A brave brave man..

  8. #38

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I am a woman, Nizan.

    Planning to wear it to the gym today. A session in the basement among a hoard of young men lifting hectically heavy weights.
    It strikes me I'll „blend in” much better with this kind of olfactory camouflage.


    @David, thanks for sharing your observation regarding its effect on other women. I will definitely get some girl friends sniffing it!
    Last edited by Graphite; 17th May 2014 at 08:12 AM.
    You are the sky. Everything else is just the weather.
    –Pema Chödrön


    liaison carbone
    RAW MATERIALS FOR PERFUMERY

  9. #39

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    *Embarrassed*
    I guess you're brave woman, then. Just don't get into one of those covert male dominance things..

    But you just gave me an idea - maybe it could work nicely with that pyrodistilled Amber.. It also smells like sweat (at least to me..).

  10. #40

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    I consider ambergris an animal note, and I see no reason why a constituent of ambergris could not also be considered an animal note.

    Mammalian animal notes in nature are often the result of reactions involving native bacteria, some of which are bidirectional as well. That is why it might react.
    As far as I am aware Ambroxan is not a constituent of Ambergris. Ambroxan is made from Sclareol which is found in Clary Sage. And even if it were, why would it react with skin bacteria to a greater extent than anything else?

  11. #41

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    I am a woman, Nizan.

    Planning to wear it to the gym today. A session in the basement among a hoard of young men lifting hectically heavy weights.
    It strikes me I'll „blend in” much better with this kind of olfactory camouflage.


    @David, thanks for sharing your observation regarding its effect on other women. I will definitely get some girl friends sniffing it!
    You should get some interesting reactions. In my experience men do not react in the same way when they smell Aldron. Do you often wear it when going to the gym?

  12. #42
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    3,540

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Aldron has been described to me, and I catch this regularly, is as "Sweaty Man", and other less polite terms reminiscent of sweaty male anatomy.

    I'm amazed you're wearing it graphite ;-)

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  13. #43

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I put on three sprays, one on each wrist, one in the neck. Before I left the house I already felt a little annoyed. Not because of the scent itself but it was simply too present.

    Before I started exercising I asked a woman to smell my wrist but she couldn't detect anything (for me it was clearly there).

    This chemicals's performance reminds me of some musks, or better: my reception of it is similar: one moment it's strong, the next it's subtle. But today was the second time I felt it was getting stronger to the end. Probably I am getting more sensitive to it over time.

    It was the first time I was wearing it in the gym and I actually enjoyed getting whiffs now and then. The problem in a gym is usually not single stinky people but the sheer quantity of steaming bodies accompanied by damp towels.
    My personal „sweaty-man-scent” appeared almost fresh to me compared to this smelly gym cacophony.

    Maybe I am missing a nuance of this chemical. As I said, at 100% I could feel my face contorting in disgust, but revisited the strip frequently.
    I will be doing some more research.

    And the end of the story: I felt quite happy (and somehow relieved) as I was wrapped afterwards in the lovely smell of Aesop rejuvenation body balm smelling of tangerine rind, vanilla and sandalwood. Girly hooray!
    Last edited by Graphite; 17th May 2014 at 06:24 PM.
    You are the sky. Everything else is just the weather.
    –Pema Chödrön


    liaison carbone
    RAW MATERIALS FOR PERFUMERY

  14. #44

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    As far as I am aware Ambroxan is not a constituent of Ambergris. Ambroxan is made from Sclareol which is found in Clary Sage. And even if it were, why would it react with skin bacteria to a greater extent than anything else?
    The goodscents page lists it as in ambergris. If it's not then a close cousin is. I already answered your other question. Mammalian musky smells often involve skin bacteria, or gut bacteria, which in many cases are the same bacteria. It has to do with sexual and reproductive biology in mammals, with my understanding of it. That is the area of research I am referring to, as well as nutrition in the case of gut bacteria.

    An example would be butyric acid produced in the intestines via the digestion of dietary fiber. Butyric acid is considered a "copulin", having a role in reproductive biology in monkees and humans. (reference: research of Astrid Jutte)
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 17th May 2014 at 08:34 PM.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    Before I started exercising I asked a woman to smell my wrist but she couldn't detect anything (for me it was clearly there).
    This is really interesting. Would you let us know about the reactions you're getting?
    Maybe that woman was just anosmic to it? Or she just mistook it for body-odor?

  16. #46

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    The goodscents page lists it as in ambergris. If it's not then a close cousin is. I already answered your other question. Mammalian musky smells often involve skin bacteria, or gut bacteria, which in many cases are the same bacteria. It has to do with sexual and reproductive biology in mammals, with my understanding of it. That is the area of research I am referring to, as well as nutrition in the case of gut bacteria.

    An example would be butyric acid produced in the intestines via the digestion of dietary fiber. Butyric acid is considered a "copulin", having a role in reproductive biology in monkees and humans. (reference: research of Astrid Jutte)
    You implied that because Ambroxan was an animal derived material (it isn't) that there would be a greater likelihood of it reacting with skin flora. I asked why that should be. Mammalian smells often involve bacterial action, and they all involve enzymes; very few Perfumery materials do. If you are suggesting that some perfumery materials can be used as starting materials for bacterial metabolism then I would agree with you, but to single out specifically animal derived substances is a little naive .

  17. #47

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    I put on three sprays, one on each wrist, one in the neck. Before I left the house I already felt a little annoyed. Not because of the scent itself but it was simply too present.

    Before I started exercising I asked a woman to smell my wrist but she couldn't detect anything (for me it was clearly there).

    This chemicals's performance reminds me of some musks, or better: my reception of it is similar: one moment it's strong, the next it's subtle. But today was the second time I felt it was getting stronger to the end. Probably I am getting more sensitive to it over time.

    It was the first time I was wearing it in the gym and I actually enjoyed getting whiffs now and then. The problem in a gym is usually not single stinky people but the sheer quantity of steaming bodies accompanied by damp towels.
    My personal „sweaty-man-scent” appeared almost fresh to me compared to this smelly gym cacophony.

    Maybe I am missing a nuance of this chemical. As I said, at 100% I could feel my face contorting in disgust, but revisited the strip frequently.
    I will be doing some more research.

    And the end of the story: I felt quite happy (and somehow relieved) as I was wrapped afterwards in the lovely smell of Aesop rejuvenation body balm smelling of tangerine rind, vanilla and sandalwood. Girly hooray!
    Sounds as if this substance is, for you, one of those things you love to hate. Whilst disliking it ("I could feel my face contorting in disgust"), you had to keep on smelling it. Aldron sure is a strange beast.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Just on ambroxan - technically, as it’s a brand name belonging to Kao, it isn’t present in any natural material. However the brand name refers to a particular chiral isomer of ambrox, -(-)ambroxide being a simplified version of the chemical name, which is indeed present in ambergris and is one of the breakdown products of ambrein, the waxy substance secreted in the intestines of the Sperm Whale, that is the basis of the ambergris we use in perfumery.

    You can see something of the pathway by which this breakdown occurs on Bo Jensen’s site by scrolling down on the linked page.
    Battle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise..”
    ― David Bowie

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Thank you Chris. Relieved I wasn't suffering from temporary insanity. To further clarify, I did not imply it was animal derived in the perfume industry. It is clearly only animal derived in the case of the amount contained in ambergris. I simply said, as a constituent of ambergris, which is produced in a whale's colon, I consider it a mammalian animal note. Objectively speaking, that is what it is. A chemical is a chemical.

    Again, mammalian animal notes often occur in nature via reactions (some bidirectional) with native bacteria. Iso-valeric acid and acetic acid are examples, along with the aforementioned butyric acid. Most probably, the many steroidal (cholesterol derived) components of ambergris (and deer musk, and civet) would be reactive with skin bacteria, as are cholesterol derived steroidal skin hormones on humans, and native to humans (for example, the 16-androstenes, and the production of androstenone from androstenol on exposure to skin bacteria, or the bidirectional production of various androstenes from androstadienone, etc.) We also know this ambergris chemical is often produced directly by genetically modified e-coli. And in particular, the bacterium "Spirillum recti physeteris" has been thought responsible for the production of the pleasant odour of ambergris in the gut of the sperm whale, along with aerobic oxidation in the sea.

    The OP was curious as to how an aromachemical with such longevity on a scent strip could mysteriously disappear sooner on the skin. I merely suggested reactions with skin bacteria was an obvious logical possibility. At no time did I state I was sure that was happening, or even that it was probable. But my opinion, still, is that I'd have been remiss to not mention it as a consideration when trying to help the OP. Again, it is not atypical of mammalian animal notes in nature. A mammalian person wearing a perfume containing a mammalian animal note is part of nature.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 19th May 2014 at 03:51 AM.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    How time approx. can the ambroxan be in good condition and how can I know if it's in bad condition?

  21. #51

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I tried to make Molecule 02 today.
    For some reason I can smell the pure ambroxan crystals a little bit, however, when diluted to 5% i can't smell anything :S
    Am I anosmic to ambroxan? Is it possible that I should dilute it more?
    My niche and designer decant thread (Tom Ford, Xerjoff, Frapin, Creed, Christian Lacroix, Amouage etc): http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic....4dbca18c386322

  22. #52

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    You could also be hypernosmic.. Try diluting it further and see what happens. Or leave a strip with the 5% diluion somewhere that's not too well ventilated and see if you smell it a couple of days later.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by carlesrodrigo View Post
    How time approx. can the ambroxan be in good condition and how can I know if it's in bad condition?
    In my experience ambroxan / Ambrofix / cetalox don't go off at all.

    I have noticed that many people seem to have a variable ability to smell it, especially in pure form. I suspect what may be happening is that they have a sniff of the powder & unknowingly inhale a tiny amount. This then results in temporary anosmia for a while: perhaps as long as a few days. It's very persistent stuff. On paper it lasts for months.
    Battle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise..”
    ― David Bowie

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  24. #54

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    In my experience ambroxan / Ambrofix / cetalox don't go off at all.

    I have noticed that many people seem to have a variable ability to smell it, especially in pure form. I suspect what may be happening is that they have a sniff of the powder & unknowingly inhale a tiny amount. This then results in temporary anosmia for a while: perhaps as long as a few days. It's very persistent stuff. On paper it lasts for months.
    I think this is it! I am starting to be able to smell the dilution... Jezus, now I know why people say you shouldn't directly smell the vials of AC's.. Thanks a lot!

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    My niche and designer decant thread (Tom Ford, Xerjoff, Frapin, Creed, Christian Lacroix, Amouage etc): http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic....4dbca18c386322

  25. #55

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    At 5% in alcohol, the smell is not very nice, too strong and dry.
    It doesn't last.

    At 1%, it smells very good.
    It doens't last.

    Olfactory fatigue?
    I don't think so.
    When I don't smell it anymore, I apply one more spray and I smell it again.

    I still have 10 gram heres and I would like to mix them with another note to make ambroxan last.

    Should I use hedione or something else?

    In what proportion?

    Thank you!!!
    Two possibility:
    1. Your Ambroxan is old and that's why it is weak in odor;
    2. It has been sold in diluted form. For instance in 10% concentration and you diluted it more as you thought it is pure.


    HAMED

  26. #56

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Ambroxan is one of the strongest ingredients I know. A smelling strip dipped in a 1.0% solution will fill a room. Ambroxan is one of the longest lasting ingredients I know. A smelling strip dipped in a 1.0% solution can be detected months later.

Similar Threads

  1. Puzzled by Joop Homme Wild
    By Renato in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 23rd November 2012, 02:43 AM
  2. Puzzled with Lacoste Bottle
    By sharifhossain in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 28th September 2012, 03:37 AM
  3. Zino has me very puzzled
    By Slushiex3 in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 9th March 2011, 06:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000