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  1. #1

    Question Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    At 5% in alcohol, the smell is not very nice, too strong and dry.
    It doesn't last.

    At 1%, it smells very good.
    It doens't last.

    Olfactory fatigue?
    I don't think so.
    When I don't smell it anymore, I apply one more spray and I smell it again.

    I still have 10 gram heres and I would like to mix them with another note to make ambroxan last.

    Should I use hedione or something else?

    In what proportion?

    Thank you!!!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I think the job of Ambroxan is to make other substances last whilst not having much of it's own smell..."I think" meaning I'm probably wrong and will most likely be corrected in the next post.....

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Taken from GSC (thank you)

    ambroxan
    Odor Strength : high ,
    recommend smelling in a 1.00 % solution or less
    Odor Description:
    Woody, pine, cedar-like with a green seedy and tea-like nuance
    Substantivity : > 400 hour(s) at 10.00 % in dipropylene glycol
    Currently wearing: Beautiful by Estée Lauder

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Even at 0.1% it lasts quite a long time for me..

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    0.1% as a single note?
    At 1% it lasts a little on my skin, not at all on my clothes.
    Never experienced something like that.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Ambroxan has a long duration, objectively speaking.

    However, one consideration is that, being an animal note, ambroxan may be inclined to interact with the bacteria on your skin, which could transform it or break it down.

    On the other hand you said it doesn't last on your clothes. So one also has to consider olfactory fatigue.

    Also, you may grow to smell it better over time, as your "smell brain" carves out a place for it.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Thank you for this interesting answer.
    But if it is olfactory fatigue, how can I explain that I smell it again when I apply a new spray?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I am very sensitive to Ambroxan, think it very strong indeed, although I get odour fatigue very quickly. It is one of those ingredients that seems to smell stronger in weaker solutions (Karenal is another; iso E Super too). Adding extra sprays will help as the ethanol carrier will bring more Ambroxan to your nose.

    Ambroxan is not considered an animal note, nor is it derived from an animal starting material, and even if it were why would it interact with skin bacteria any more than any other substance put on your skin. Ambroxan is made from a chemical found in Clary Sage Absolute.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    So, to create a single note fragrance, should I use less than 1%, as Nizan suggested?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Try it and see.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    The recommended amount is 1% in a fragrance according to TGSC. You might not be able to smell it but everyone else will be able to perfectly adequately. It is very powerful stuff. All you are doing is blocking your scent receptors and then not smelling it after that. Try putting a 0.1% on your arm and wearing it outside. The wafts will keep coming back to you after the wind clears your nose.
    Currently wearing: Beautiful by Estée Lauder

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I made some tests at my office. When spraying 1% solution, everybody can smell it after the alcohol has evaporated.
    If my coworkers go back to their place and come back to my place 2 hours later, nobody can smell it anymore.
    I will test 0.1%. Jeez, I have 10 more grams to go.
    If 0.1% is the right amount, this makes me 10 grams ambroxan + 9990 grams alcohol (12.4875 liter).
    I think I will take a bath in it!
    Last edited by Stephan; 14th May 2014 at 08:49 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I'm so puzzled, a great member of this forum creates Molecule 02 with 5% Ambroxan:
    Link here
    But as mumsy said, I've also seen the recommandation of TGSC, or of Hermitage Oils:
    "In pure form it is a white crystalline solid, presented here for ease of use at 10% (the practical maximum that will dissolve in ethanol at room temperature) in a mix of ethanol and DPG. A little goes a long way and in this dilution it is normally used from 1% to 10% of your concentrate."
    Source: http://www.hermitageoils.com/ambrofi...hanol-dpg-2257
    1% to 10% of 10% is 0.1% to 1%, right?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    To make a 0.1% solution, you do not need to take pure Ambroxan and dilute it. If you have a 10.0% or a 1.0% solution you can use that, and save your pure Ambroxan. Make a 1.0% solution of your 10.0% solution (1 part Ambroxan 10.0% into 99.0 parts ethanol, makes a 0.1% solution) or 10.0% solution of your 1.0% Ambroxan solution (10 parts Ambroxan 1.0% 90 parts ethanol).

  15. #15

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Yes David, that's the way I will work.
    But any comments about the 5% Ambroxan of Chris Bartlett?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Maybe the smelling threshold is different for different people. Why not make 1% and 0.1% dilutions, put them on a strip, and sample both every couple of hours? That way you'll get an idea of what works for you. But make sure you're not constantly inhaling it between testing, to prevent fatigue.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    Yes David, that's the way I will work.
    But any comments about the 5% Ambroxan of Chris Bartlett?
    Just to be clear, this 5% solution was made as an alternative to Molecule 02, Not A Perfume and others - it is a commercial product that works for people who like that sort of thing . . . personally I think it's way too strong at that level. Which is why I wrote what's quoted from the Hermitage website (pretty much all the synthetics have write-ups by me if you'd not realised that - I really must resurrect the thread explaining all this that disappeared in the Huddler Experiment). Ambroxan / Ambrofix works best as an enhancer for other materials in traces. And believe me it is very, very long-lasting. I have had test strips in my lab for months that I could still detect the scent on before I gave up and threw them out, still smelling clearly. I've written a long thread on that but that too may have been lost in the dreaded Huddler Period.

    A perfumer friend of mine reports that he can recognise people who usually wear Cool Water days after they last used it because the residual smell of ambroxan outlasts everything else and continues to cling to them through shower, bath and daily grind. Few perfumery products last longer.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I guess I'm a little anosmic to it. In each concentration, it lasts about 2 hour on me, then I can't smell it anymore.
    Even if I spray on fabric, I can smell it when the alcohol has evaporated, but if I go to bed and try to smell it in the morning, it is gone.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I really wonder what the concentration of Molecule 02 is.
    I also wonder if I should use something else than hekserij's cosmetisch haarwater to dilute it.
    Or perhaps should I try Cetalox instead.
    With Ambroxan, I only smell something sweet for 2 hours, then it is gone forever.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I can only echo Chris' comments. To me, Ambroxan is one of the outstanding aromachemicals we have. It lasts forever on smelling strips and on skin; a little goes a very long way. And a dip can fill a room. I don't understand how it works as its vapour pressure would indicate that you should hardly smell it. Guess we are all different, and sensitive to different things. For me Benzyl Salicylate pretty well odourless.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I showed this material to +/- 10 people, on my skin, on their skin, and always the same result.
    Perhaps something is wrong with my material (dated?).
    Last edited by Stephan; 15th May 2014 at 01:07 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    That is an unfortunate possibility.

  23. #23
    Super Member Jeremiah Taylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I'd agree. When I put Ambroxan at 5% dilution on a test strip I have to dispose of it in a trash can in a different room because it literally fills my entire space.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    I don't know in which concentration het cosmetisch haarwater contains panthenol, but this substance is quickly absorbed by the skin and is used in cosmetics to keep the skin moist.
    Maybe before thinking of having a dated material you could try another solvent.
    You are the sky. Everything else is just the weather.
    –Pema Chödrön


    liaison carbone
    RAW MATERIALS FOR PERFUMERY

  25. #25

    Default Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Hi all,
    didn't want to hijack thread but I am relatively new to aroma chems.

    Wanted to ask you guys if Ambroxan is good material on its own to buy as beginner or would you rather suggest I get some amber blend first?


    Cheers

    Mladen


    Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk
    Last edited by perfectscent; 15th May 2014 at 06:43 PM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    You don't usually know what goes into blends, and they might be a bit too complex to start with. You could get Ambroxan, and work with high dilutions when mixing, as it can easily overpower.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Cool Nizan thank you for the answer.
    Was curious about it. I am working on a warm balmy summer scent built around coconut middle notes. Have heliotrope, coumarin, bicyclo lactone and vanilla (ethyl and regular) musk (ambrettolide, tonalid, helvetolide) as a base and was wondering if amber could work in that combination as well.

    Cheers

    Mladen


    Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk

  28. #28

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    The past days I was wearing aldron at 10%. At 100% there is a masculinity to it that leaves me a bit ambivalent, but at this moderate dilution it's amazing. It smells of skin and the lover's shirt after he wore it one day. An astonishingly sensual odorant. I can totally imagine this chem to fit into a beach scent.

    I personally find ambroxan off-putting. Maybe I am over sensitive to it but I perceive it as dominant in many fragrances (A. Goutal Ambre Fétiche for example).
    But I will follow the advice here and give it a try in homeopathic concentration.
    You are the sky. Everything else is just the weather.
    –Pema Chödrön


    liaison carbone
    RAW MATERIALS FOR PERFUMERY

  29. #29

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Hi Graphite,
    now you got me intrigued , where do I get Aldron in small quantities?

    Cheers
    Mladen

  30. #30

    Default Re: Ambroxan - I'm puzzled

    Chez moi
    I am currently offering several aroma chemicals and naturals in small quantities.
    If you like, send me a pm with your e-mail address.
    You are the sky. Everything else is just the weather.
    –Pema Chödrön


    liaison carbone
    RAW MATERIALS FOR PERFUMERY

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