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  1. #1

    Default Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Wish I could hang this as a Banner over the door of BN... AND the Internet.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  2. #2

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Maybe you should type that advice all in caps.

    Before budding perfumers find BaseNotes DIY, they are subjected to the worst kind of "expert" advice on assorted forums and blogs. The more experienced perfumers here have to try to be kind to the unenlightened.
    "This, what is it in itself, and by itself, according to its proper constitution? What is the substance of it? What is the matter, or proper use? What is the form, or efficient cause? What is it for in this world, and how long will it abide? Thus must thou examine all things that present themselves unto thee." Marcus Aurelius

  3. #3

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    and don’t put sweet almond oil in either!
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 16th June 2014 at 01:55 PM.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Lol yeah great advice it should be the first thing anyone learns when it comes to perfume
    Jennie's Handcrafted Fragrances
    www.etsy.com/shop/jenniesfragrances

  5. #5

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    LOL

    But can we know why?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood66 View Post
    LOL

    But can we know why?
    Why would you? Glycerin is a humectant, does your perfume need a humectant? Jojoba oil is essentially liquid wax, why would you want that in your perfume? Sweet Almond Oil is an emollient, is that necessary in your perfume? And why add water? I just never understood that. Why do people add things that clearly aren't necessary? Unless you are trying to develop some type of new-fangled product, don't add these things!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    You can add jojoba oil to an ethanol fragrance if you want to achieve
    a floating layer / droplets of jojoba on top of your fragrance.

    Question why you want the ingredient in there, and find out what
    it normally used for that purpose. Don't just add water because
    a silly article said to.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Stickying this so we can all find it easily in future..
    Directory contribution link:-
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

  9. #9

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Good idea, llp!
    "This, what is it in itself, and by itself, according to its proper constitution? What is the substance of it? What is the matter, or proper use? What is the form, or efficient cause? What is it for in this world, and how long will it abide? Thus must thou examine all things that present themselves unto thee." Marcus Aurelius

  10. #10

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    In my opinion, this advice requires a bit of comment.

    A small proportion of water is useful to soften the top notes and reduce the harsh smell of alcohol in the first whiffs. Around 5% is what most commercial perfumes use, and a good starting point. Some or most of this water can be already present in the alcohol you use. 96% alcohol, usual in some countries, already contains 4% water.

    Same goes for other substances, like DPG or IPM. They are commonly used as solvents for many aromachemicals and essential oils, and thus already present in many formulas that use diluted components. In case they arenīt in your formula, you can find that a small proportion of them can round the fragrance and soften their roughest edges. I have never used glycerin; I suspect the effect can be similar in low proportions, and perhaps more suitable to all-natural perfumers.

    As for jojoba, fractionated coconut or almond oils, better leave them out of alcohol based fragrances.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    I know this isn't the thread topic, but I'm new to perfumery DIY and have made all mistakes that the original threader said not to do lol. Are any of you familiar with how I can get my scent to last longer? It seems that the scents I create only last an hour tops. Is there an aromatic chemical I need to add? Some type of musk? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood66 View Post
    LOL

    But can we know why?
    The key reason why you donít want to add any of these things to your fragrance is that they are likely to cause solubility problems, resulting in either cloudy or separated liquid.

    Jojoba, sweet almond oil and glycerine are not miscible with ethanol.

    Water is completely miscible with ethanol but, unless your fragrance is very low strength or you are using anhydrous ethanol in the first place, adding water is likely to force some of your fragrance materials out of solution, resulting in clouding. Even if your fragrance does not cloud when you make it, it may do so when it reaches a low temperature (such as in the unheated bathroom in Northern Europe in winter).

    Cloudy fragrances, particularly those containing a lot of water, are also vulnerable to bacterial growth which can make them hazardous to health unless additional preservatives are used (in general 20% ethanol is considered sufficient to prevent significant bacterial growth in most mixtures).

    Sadly the reason we need to say this at all is because there are websites around, purporting to be written by experts that claim, despite our attempts to have them corrected, that any and all of these things are needed to make perfume: they are not.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Apologies if this is off-topic: I've been wondering what preservatives are used in 'water perfumes.' I guess solubility would not be the main priority, since you've already got a cloudy product. Then again, the preservative would have to remain distributed throughout the mixture pretty well if it's going to do its job. Microbes are amazing at finding microniches to inhabit.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    As a newbie, I say thanks for the excellent, free advice :-)

  15. #15

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    When I first started mixing for myself, I used both jojoba and glycerine with the intent of producing more of an oil application than spray. Bad results. Aside from the aforementioned solubility issue, those with jojoba eventually became rancid and those with glycerine felt almost sticky and quite unpleasant. All were tossed.
    Simplex Sigillum Veri

  16. #16

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    A lot of those "how to make your own perfume" sites tell you to add some water, shake and then filter the resulting mixture. I wonder what the purpose of that is for??

  17. #17

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by saponier View Post
    Why would you? Glycerin is a humectant, does your perfume need a humectant? Jojoba oil is essentially liquid wax, why would you want that in your perfume? Sweet Almond Oil is an emollient, is that necessary in your perfume? And why add water? I just never understood that. Why do people add things that clearly aren't necessary? Unless you are trying to develop some type of new-fangled product, don't add these things!
    Beginners don't know what's necessary in their perfume. Why add things that clearly aren't necessary? Because these things might be clear to you, but to a beginner who is trying to get started, online tutorials are about all they have to go off of and if those say "add 5ml glycerin" they're going to because they don't know any better yet.

    That's why I'm really glad to see so many of these important topics as stickies here! All of basenotes in general is pretty amazing in my opinion.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Thank you & welcome, Casiquire
    Directory contribution link:-
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

  19. #19

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Thank you & welcome, Casiquire
    Thanks! I've been lurking for a good while but I like to get a feel for the waters before diving in lol.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Read, read and read. Then just have some fun. The stickies will tell you just about everything to begin with. Make some 'mud' and then you will be fired with some questions. Add your country on your profile so the flag appears and then we know where to direct you to for max help and supplies.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    I have been trying to make my own perfume. I found a recipe online using sweet almond oil, essential oils, vodka, and glycerin. Apparently I shouldn't add sweet almond oil or glycerin lol. Can someone please help me with a basic formula for a long lasting perfume?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Where on earth did you find it? Can we have a link?

    I suggest you read the stickies here right from the beginning with a nice cup of coffee in the other hand.
    Perfume is the oils or abs plus ethanol. That's it in a nutshell but obviously there are many layers.

    Have a nice read and welcome to the smelly fun. The perfumers apprentice is a good place to start.

    https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com...CornerHow.aspx

  23. #23

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Thanks for the advice! I tried to add a link to my response but I got an error saying "new members cannot post URLs". The recipe I was using was from Design Sponge. There is a similar recipe on instructables. Most recipes I have found online use carrier oils and glycerin.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Oops. I forgot you couldn't.

    I had a peek and the instructions look so neat and comprehensive that she must have a reason for using them. There are no rules. You can do as you please. It just isn't what is in commercial fragrances and she isn't intending them to be. I suspect she has designed something to keep your skin soft at the same time. Looks rather nice and is very instructive. No harm in playing with it either.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Thanks for taking a look at that. This might sound ignorant but I'll ask anyway what is normally used in commercial perfume? Basically I want to get as close to commercial quality as possible... but I want to make the perfume myself so I can customize the scent. I just want to be able to something that lasts.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    Where on earth did you find it? Can we have a link?

    I suggest you read the stickies here right from the beginning with a nice cup of coffee in the other hand.
    Perfume is the oils or abs plus ethanol. That's it in a nutshell but obviously there are many layers.

    Have a nice read and welcome to the smelly fun. The perfumers apprentice is a good place to start.

    https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com...CornerHow.aspx
    Perfume is the oils = essential oils
    or abs = absolutes (concentrated ingredient)
    plus ethanol = the alcohol

    Not forgetting aromachemicals of which there are many.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Thanks so much for the help! I'm excited to start creating my perfume the right way

  28. #28

    Default Re: Don't Add Water, Glycerin or Jojoba to Alcoholic Perfumes

    Don't be in a rush. Enjoy each step and stay simple to begin with otherwise you will not learn each ingredient and what it does with others when blended. You need to learn that off by heart each step of the way.

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