Identity help, Please...

[pkiler]

These flowers are about 20mm across... all the Magnolias I've seen dwarf this by a factor of 10X+

:-)

No, I've not seen Ficus Flower either...


And remember, these flowers bloom on the BOTTOM of the branch...

PK

[DrSmellThis]

I'll say no to Dogwood, because the Dogwood flowers have four petals, these have five

Ha ha. I thought the same thing. Then I Wiki'ed it and they were saying five petals, so I thought, "Well, maybe both can be true?" I was willingly suspending my belief that nature is almost never like that --- "if something is three, it's three, dammit."

[pkiler]

New Pics
Mystery Flower tree 1.jpg

Mystery Flower tree branch 2.jpg

Mystery Flower Tree branch 3.jpg

Mystery Flower Tree Branch 4.jpg

Mystery Flower Tree Branch 5.jpg

Mystery Flower Tree Branch 6.jpg

Mystery Flower Tree Branch 7.jpg

[mumsy]

What a wonderful mystery. My initial thought was a bay tree family from the tree shape. Then frangipane because the flowers curl in. I know these are wrong because I checked.

What would this ID site say?
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/b...e-key/#tree-s1

[lpp]

It's probably something blindingly obvious !

[mumsy]

Bay laurel is similar but the flowers differ, slightly more bunchy.

[lpp]

Reply just received from Kew:-

''Dear ...

We have had one identification for your photograph from one of our botanists as follows:

Ternstroemia sp. from the Penthaphylacaceae family of plants

I hope this information helps. Unfortunately, we are unable to identify down to species level from the photograph.

Yours sincerely''

Having looked on Google, this is uncannily similar.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/elyunq...telprdb5203591

and this is similar.
http://www005.upp.so-net.ne.jp/goost...O/XMOKKOKU.HTM

[mumsy]

Clever bunny. I couldn't get this at all and tried a multitude of times.

[islearom]

Nice IPP that you thought to contact Kew...I had not the slightest thought of it being in the Tea family. Even without the species being determined with certainty, the identity is now much narrowed down. The first link that you provide does look much like the original picture from Paul.

Yes Mumsy, he's a clever one.

[pkiler]

Reply just received from Kew:-

LPP. I think you really found it... HOORAY!!!

Thanks SO Very Much!

I will forward this on to the gardens now and see what they have to say, but I think you Nailed it!

Much Love- PK

[pkiler]

I would really bet that the tree is Saintedwood, as you found LPP, THANKS!

[lpp]

Thanks Paul & all - it was getting to be like some kind of a brainworm or something!


Kew have always been very helpful.

@mumsy - I'd never have found it either...

[DrSmellThis]

Glad to see the mystery has been solved.

[Pears]

Saintedwood, cool name! I take it that you're interested in planting one in your garden, Paul?

[pkiler]

Saintedwood, cool name! I take it that you're interested in planting one in your garden, Paul?

Would be lovely indeed, but I'm quite worried about my heat and lack of humidity for a plant native to tropical island Puerto Rico...???
Then there's also the question of finding another specimen... It seems to be pretty rare.

PK

[lpp]

Would the owner be prepared to have a go at propagating some?

[pkiler]

Would the owner be prepared to have a go at propagating some?

Hmmm... They Might...

And I still need to work out a post showing their Frankincense Tree Specimens too...

PK

[lpp]

Wow - lucky you - is it a public garden or a private one?

We can buy Frankincense trees from Europe but they cost a fortune & I don't have the facilities for them atm.

[pkiler]

It's my Community College alma mater gardens. Public. But Clearly, If I've helped them ID a plant that they haven't known what it is for several/many years, maybe I could impose for a propagation of the Saintedwood tree...?

The Frankincense trees seem to be a personal thing for one of the guys...

PK

[lpp]

Cool

As it's classed as 'sensitive' in it's own, native, habitat, propagation could be a very good thing...

ooh - 1950 posts Paul...

[mumsy]

it was getting to be like some kind of a brainworm

Lol......what an expression. Totally as it was indeed. I can never rest with an unsolved mystery.

[Niche1]

Wow, so glad this is solved. We could've gone on forever hunting and guessing. What a glorious tree.

[cacio]

Very interesting!

The wiki says that the plants are androdiodecious, a term I had obviously never heard, but which explains why the plant never bore fruits. It needs a tree with female flowers.

Apparently, a Mexican variety (pringleri) produces a sedative substance in their fruits (a substance with the cool name jacaranone, which has so far escaped IFRA).

In any case, it seems that the plant now requires a perfume inspired by it ...

cacio

[pkiler]

In any case, it seems that the plant now requires a perfume inspired by it ...

cacio

Yes, I was thinking that...

PK

[Pears]

Would be lovely indeed, but I'm quite worried about my heat and lack of humidity for a plant native to tropical island Puerto Rico...???
Then there's also the question of finding another specimen... It seems to be pretty rare.

PK

I'd imagine that it could handle the heat if it's from the tropics or sub tropics but the lack of humidity and rainfall in the summer could be an issue. You could add more organic matter to the soil and apply a thick mulch on top, to help the soil to retain more moisture. Adding mycorrhizal fungi to the roots when transplanting would also make the plant considerably more drought tolerant. If it's particularly thirsty then you could bury an olla next to it. It would save you from having to water so regularly and stop the water from being wasted through drainage and evaporation. I believe that California has a mediterranean type climate, receiving heavy rain fall in the winter, so you should hopefully only need to water in the summer months. Unless you're to the east of the mountains and in the rain shadow, in which case watering all year round may be beneficial. Just a few ideas, you may already be familiar with most of them if you're a keen gardener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGxqShoGKFI

[pkiler]

The Gardener I now have a small relationship with because of these actitivies is going to try to make a slip and see if he can grow it for me.

Interesting about the female and male trees needed... Not fruiting is ok though. they don't seem to be very consequential... "Tiny brown, egg-shaped fruit (green when immature) is dry, two-celled with few seeds."

The Gardener is going to take my pics back to the Huntington Gardens in Pasadena where they got the plant and ask for confirmation of Saintedwood ID.


Thanks Pears for your thoughts, Yes, we are much more desert than Mediteranean where we are... we're not on the coast, and yes rain shadowed, but also we're in such a severe drought too, here in So Cal. Our backyard sprinklers never have worked well or properly. So I must water the trees, and esp the newly planted Tangelo tree. Mostly the backyard is dirt with a few low weeds, if not a tree or bush.


I planted our Juniper potted Christmas tree from about 10 years ago, and it has just gotten monstrously big, and nothing grows under it. So I think I'll have to cut it down and plant other things there. But I don;'t have to water it. Maybe it gets enough water from the neighbor's waterings...?
But I bet I'd have to water the Saintedwood. Your thoughts for an Olla are excellent, I should institute that too for the Tangelo...

Thanks,
PK

[lpp]

Update - another opinion has been received:-

Quote
I think – Cleyera japonica, in the family Pentaphylacaceae.
All best,
End quote

http://www.phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/...ica_28667.html

[pkiler]

Oh Yes, I see that similarity indeed!

I've just passed it on. Although I did have trouble finding any pictures of more mature plants, similar in size to this tree. But certainly the flowers are very close, AND the Leaves are too. I couldn't seem to find any pics with the flowers clearly on the underside of the branches though. But granted, I only looked for a few minutes.

There is one mention of the strong beautiful flower odor wafting down a canyon from the flowers, that is also encouraging...

Thanks so very much LPP. And the hardiness of this plant I think could grow at my home too. YAY!, will investigate more at a nursery that is 50 miles away that says they sell it.

:-)

PK

[lpp]

Hope so, Paul - it sounds really lovely

[mumsy]

What a smashing bit of Sherlock work Ipp.