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  1. #31

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    "when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?..."

    If you look at the history of fragrance, several hundred years, you'll see the period where 4 foot projection was socially acceptable, probably mid 70's to early 90's, is quite short. Wearing anything with that much projection to the office before or after that time had you marked out as "The Cologne Guy". Sure, strong projecting frag were launched before and after then (Brut, 1 Million), but big projection was only acceptable in that short time span, so it is more the exception than the rule. And remember, not all powerhouses from that time were "butch", Joop and Le Male are strong but sweet, and just as unpleasant if you are trapped in an elevator with someone wearing them.

    As for what is or isn't harsh, I find Leather accords to be harsh, but then I find most synthetic white musk notes just as harsh.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    My daughter recently witnessed a cyclist in London being beheaded in the course of being run over by a small truck.
    And yes, that's a local neighbourhood to some of us.
    I debated whether to even post this after seeing the earlier motorcycle posting that implied someone is "less manly" if they use protective gear while riding, but here goes... Two of my direct reports at work in a row died due to motorcycle accidents, both in their twenties. I only wish they were wearing the proper protective gear that could have possibly saved their lives. If wearing protective gear makes someone "less masculine" to some, so be it. I think following proper safety guidelines is just being smart and has nothing to do with one's fragrance choices or their masculinity (or femininity, for that matter).
    Last edited by drseid; 5th July 2014 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Grammar...
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    4)
    Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

    6)
    Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)
    9) Javanese Patchouli (Zegna) - tie
    9) Monsieur de Givenchy vintage (Givenchy) - tie
    9) Coeur de Vetiver Sacré (L'Artisan) - tie
    9) X for Men (Clive Christian) - tie
    9) Patou pour Homme Privé (Jean Patou) - tie
    9) Oud Shamash (The Different Company) - tie
    Currently wearing: As Sawira by Penhaligon's

  3. #33

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Wouldn't know. After a long day at the slaughterhouse, a quick, bloody afterwork boxing session (after a few pints usually), I come home and relax in some Givenchy Pi. My women love it.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    It is the way mens fashion is now all across the board. Suits, casual wear, jeans, accessories and fragrance are tailored to fit a certain kind of male. Bringing it back to fragrance, traditional men's perfume is still pretty prominent but if a company were to produce the classic syle of mens fragrance only, theyd be leaving lots of money on the table. As long as you have men who wear women's fragrances, it's not gonna be like the 70's and 80's with the super masculine scents
    Seasonal rotation:

    Ciel Man
    Windsor
    Scandal Pour Homme
    Santal Imperial
    Millesime Imperial

  5. #35

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    My daughter recently witnessed a cyclist in London being beheaded in the course of being run over by a small truck.
    And yes, that's a local neighbourhood to some of us.
    Which has little to do with your post but, hey, it's a misconception that masculinity is defined by the choice of perfume so why try to make it so?.
    Was wondering how long before someone would bring up a bicycle death. Of course all the elbow pads wouldn't help someone getting beheaded by a truck. But that wasn't the point anyway.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    In the spirit of this thread, I'll be wear Une Rose today.

  7. #37
    Dependent L'Homme Blanc Individuel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    Was wondering how long before someone would bring up a bicycle death. Of course all the elbow pads wouldn't help someone getting beheaded by a truck. But that wasn't the point anyway.
    It seemed to me that a lot of men aren't living up to a sexuality stereotype that you're comfortable with, and that says little about them and a lot about you and your perceptions. I'm not saying that to be rude. The person judging always tells more about himself or herself than they do about those being judged. The idea that real men don't wear protective gear when it's called for is an outdated stereotype. Real men, just like real women, take care of themselves - especially if they have families they're taking care of too. A lot more people were killed in senseless accidents in the past due to their lack of protective gear, but I guess they looked more "manly" or something.

    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?

    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?

    The original question was:

    Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...
    Way too feminine?.
    The answer is: The classics you're referring to are the reflection of the tastes and preferences of people from that particular era. I'm guessing that when you say "The Classics" you're only referring to one particular era and are forgetting everything that came before.

    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    It seemed to me that a lot of men aren't living up to a sexuality stereotype that you're comfortable with, and that says little about them and a lot about you and your perceptions. I'm not saying that to be rude. The person judging always tells more about himself or herself than they do about those being judged. The idea that real men don't wear protective gear when it's called for is an outdated stereotype. Real men, just like real women, take care of themselves - especially if they have families they're taking care of too. A lot more people were killed in senseless accidents in the past due to their lack of protective gear, but I guess they looked more "manly" or something.

    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?

    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?

    The original question was:



    The answer is: The classics you're referring to are the reflection of the tastes and preferences of people from that particular era. I'm guessing that when you say "The Classics" you're only referring to one particular era and are forgetting everything that came before.

    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    +1 to all of this.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    And if you go back to the beginning of modern perfumery the men and women all wore the same anyway. I don't think Farina whipped up male and female editions of his "fragrant waters".

  10. #40

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Okay, for those who want ultra-"masculine" or ultra-"feminine" scents (for men), and don't want to pay much, here are my suggestions:

    1. Roll around in some horse manure.
    2. Drizzle dollar store fake maple syrup all over your torso, then coat that with some sugar.

    Can you guess which is the masculine option and which is the feminine one?

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I think that a sample pass may be needed...
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I think that a sample pass may be needed...
    I'll pass on that pass.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  13. #43

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Okay, for those who want ultra-"masculine" or ultra-"feminine" scents (for men), and don't want to pay much, here are my suggestions:

    1. Roll around in some horse manure.
    2. Drizzle dollar store fake maple syrup all over your torso, then coat that with some sugar.

    Can you guess which is the masculine option and which is the feminine one?
    I don't know the answer to your question, but 1 is niche and 2 is designer.
    What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    It's rare to see anything worth reading on this site anymore. The place has turned into a bunch of morons who know as much about perfume as I know about thermodynamics, which ain't much. :-)

  15. #45

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Okay, for those who want ultra-"masculine" or ultra-"feminine" scents (for men), and don't want to pay much, here are my suggestions:

    1. Roll around in some horse manure.
    2. Drizzle dollar store fake maple syrup all over your torso, then coat that with some sugar.

    Can you guess which is the masculine option and which is the feminine one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    I don't know the answer to your question, but 1 is niche and 2 is designer.

    LOL Marais - that made my day! Good one...
    Currently wearing: Acqua Viva by Profumum

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    It's rare to see anything worth reading on this site anymore. The place has turned into a bunch of morons who know as much about perfume as I know about thermodynamics, which ain't much. :-)
    Well, goodbye then I guess. The only thing you seem to contribute is to call all current fragrances garbage, almost all Basenoters morons, and to follow Mr. Reasonable around and +1 anything he says.

    If you know anything at all about fragrances, I must have missed those posts.
    Current Summer Favorites:

    1. Creed - Original Cologne
    2. Xerjoff - Nio
    3. Creed - Aventus
    4. The Different Company - De Bachmakov
    5. Dior - Homme Sport 2008
    6. Tom Ford - Grey Vetiver
    7. Montale - Aoud Legacy
    8. Dior - Homme Sport 2012
    9. Tom Ford - Rive d'Ambre
    10. Creed - Virgin Island Water

  17. #47

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    The only thing you seem to contribute is to call all current fragrances garbage, almost all Basenoters morons,
    Agree - have seen this occur a few times...I have however seen many good posts in the archives of BN from Pluran & many others - but in the past only.

    I have respected & read a "lot" of wonderful reviews & interesting posts from older BN including pluran - but off late, all I see are ridiculing the new fragrances. I love vintages too - I own many & I constantly am in search for many of these, however, there are new ones I like equally & ridiculing all new ones in general as garbage seems as useless a post as others saying +1's as you yourself mention it Pluran...
    Currently wearing: Acqua Viva by Profumum

  18. #48

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    It seemed to me that a lot of men aren't living up to a sexuality stereotype that you're comfortable with, and that says little about them and a lot about you and your perceptions. I'm not saying that to be rude. The person judging always tells more about himself or herself than they do about those being judged. The idea that real men don't wear protective gear when it's called for is an outdated stereotype. Real men, just like real women, take care of themselves - especially if they have families they're taking care of too. A lot more people were killed in senseless accidents in the past due to their lack of protective gear, but I guess they looked more "manly" or something.

    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?

    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?

    The original question was:



    The answer is: The classics you're referring to are the reflection of the tastes and preferences of people from that particular era. I'm guessing that when you say "The Classics" you're only referring to one particular era and are forgetting everything that came before.

    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    Thanks for the insightful psychoanalysis. I will give it the attention it deserves. As for the protective gear analogy, you are expanding it well beyond what I stated. I have a neighbor who goes for a 15 minute bike ride, in an enclosed neighborhood, with sidewalks, with a bike trail, and with enough protective gear for a Medieval joust. That is a puss. A wuss. And a dork. Sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, but whatever. I fully support any child and any adult for protecting themselves against any danger and using whatever they want. Its just a little overkill for me. I would think he is in more danger from tipping over wearing all that crap, but to each his own. I wonder if he wears the gear when he uses his treadmill or on the stationary bike in his spinning class with the gals. I'll have to ask.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Smell is a sense, just like taste. Do you agree with everyone on how strong everything tastes?

  20. #50

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Well, goodbye then I guess. The only thing you seem to contribute is to call all current fragrances garbage, almost all Basenoters morons, and to follow Mr. Reasonable around and +1 anything he says.

    If you know anything at all about fragrances, I must have missed those posts.
    +1, and to plug the latest Luca Turin review. Good riddance.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    It's rare to see anything worth reading on this site anymore. The place has turned into a bunch of morons who know as much about perfume as I know about thermodynamics, which ain't much. :-)
    I can tell that you're a people person. Good luck with your superior intellect.
    Last edited by silentrich; 6th July 2014 at 01:20 AM.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    This.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?
    Good point. But I would also be concerned that the man in question would return that product if it did not suit his taste and seek a competitor's product that is more appealing.


    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?
    Absolutely. But are they catering to women's tastes? That is debatable. Or are they catering to what they perceive those tastes are? And maybe they are getting it wrong? I think most women prefer that their man smell masculine and not like an 18th Century Parisian dandy. I concede that most people (men and women) do not want room length projection or Pigpen sillage. But they clearly do not want watered down skin scents that are indiscernable from one another. People actually want others to smell the cologne that they buy. That is the point. Give me a solid 2-3 feet of projection and enough longevity to get me through the work day and they may make a lot of us much more satisfied and loyal. I think many men have been conditioned that the performance of the 70s-90s was not ideal, so that the designers/houses can manufacture cheaper products with cheaper materials. Regulations aside.
    Last edited by SmellyFinger; 6th July 2014 at 01:15 AM.

  24. #54

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Whether the OP intended it or not, the original post was an invitation to nastiness. May I suggest that the mods insist on deleting any OT post here or any clearly nasty one?

  25. #55

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Whether the OP intended it or not, the original post was an invitation to nastiness. May I suggest that the mods insist on deleting any OT post here or any clearly nasty one?
    I agree, and it certainly achieved its goals. I'd invite to chill out, avoid responding to anything even remotely "bait-y", and one of us will return with the mop as soon as we have chance.

  26. #56
    Dependent L'Homme Blanc Individuel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    Absolutely. But are they catering to women's tastes? That is debatable. Or are they catering to what they perceive those tastes are?
    No, actually. It isn't debatable. Niche houses tend to take more risks, but designers put a ton of money into market research for products they're working on. If anything is debatable, it's that designers are trying too hard to cater to shoppers' tastes - both male and female shoppers - by trying to use market research as if it's a paint by numbers recipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    And maybe they are getting it wrong? I think most women prefer that their man smell masculine and not like an 18th Century Parisian dandy.
    I always think it's hilarious (and also kind of sad) when a man thinks he's the expert at what women want. Here's a friendly tip: it's smarter to ask women what they like rather than guess. If you pay attention, you'll quickly realize that different women enjoy different things. Then again, I'm not sure how much you understand that different men enjoy different things. Or, maybe you do understand it, but any man who has different tastes than your own is way too feminine.

    The more comfortable you become with who you are, the less you need to foolishly treat masculinity as if it's some sort of benchmark.

    Pour Un Homme De Caron has three notes: Lavender, Vanilla and Musk. It's from the 1930s. My point? The hyper-masculine scents you refer to as the classics are indeed classics, but they're not the only classics, nor do they represent all classics.

    You keep putting your own insecurities into your descriptions of other men. Look at the amount of negative terminology and descriptions that you use. It's one thing to point out that a particular fragrance smells feminine to you. That's a fair assessment. It's another to insult the masculinity of any man who doesn't fit your view of what masculine should be. You began this thread by asking if men are, and I quote, "way too feminine" to handle the classics. I mention a historical context to show that the view of masculinity changes through generations. Your reply uses terms like "18th Century Parisian dandy." You've used terms like puss and wuss, and suggested a man who wears protective gear while cycling is probably also going to "his spinning class with the gals."

    Your words are sexist. You're insulting the masculinity of anyone who doesn't fit your stereotype. Frankly, I think the stereotype is outdated. That's just my opinion.

    I really do hope you understand the difference between judging a scent and judging other people. The two are entirely different.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  27. #57

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    No, actually. It isn't debatable. Niche houses tend to take more risks, but designers put a ton of money into market research for products they're working on. If anything is debatable, it's that designers are trying too hard to cater to shoppers' tastes - both male and female shoppers - by trying to use market research as if it's a paint by numbers recipe.



    I always think it's hilarious (and also kind of sad) when a man thinks he's the expert at what women want. Here's a friendly tip: it's smarter to ask women what they like rather than guess. If you pay attention, you'll quickly realize that different women enjoy different things. Then again, I'm not sure how much you understand that different men enjoy different things. Or, maybe you do understand it, but any man who has different tastes than your own is way too feminine.

    The more comfortable you become with who you are, the less you need to foolishly treat masculinity as if it's some sort of benchmark.

    Pour Un Homme De Caron has three notes: Lavender, Vanilla and Musk. It's from the 1930s. My point? The hyper-masculine scents you refer to as the classics are indeed classics, but they're not the only classics, nor do they represent all classics.

    You keep putting your own insecurities into your descriptions of other men. Look at the amount of negative terminology and descriptions that you use. It's one thing to point out that a particular fragrance smells feminine to you. That's a fair assessment. It's another to insult the masculinity of any man who doesn't fit your view of what masculine should be. You began this thread by asking if men are, and I quote, "way too feminine" to handle the classics. I mention a historical context to show that the view of masculinity changes through generations. Your reply uses terms like "18th Century Parisian dandy." You've used terms like puss and wuss, and suggested a man who wears protective gear while cycling is probably also going to "his spinning class with the gals."

    Your words are sexist. You're insulting the masculinity of anyone who doesn't fit your stereotype. Frankly, I think the stereotype is outdated. That's just my opinion.

    I really do hope you understand the difference between judging a scent and judging other people. The two are entirely different.
    Actually, I find CPuH to be quite harsh (circa 1960 as well as recent formulation), and I think that, as I said before, it is more useful to talk about general human tendencies in terms of the perception of "harshness." For me, the "masculine/feminine" stuff is just troll material. I agree that testing is probably very important to the "designer" scent industry and I'd argue that it's likely they have found that the "newbie nose," which is 99% or so of the people they will sell to, prefer softer though more synthetic top notes. Some of us have come to enjoy the older and stronger aromatic openings, and in fact find the new synthetics to be "harsh" (and often lasting for the entire course of the scent's development!), but if someone likes the new stuff, there's nothing wrong with that either. At best, this topic can only result in generalizations, and it mostly seems to come down to what one is used to or what one has developed an appreciation for after years of experience.

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    This thread has gone where the OP intended.

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