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  1. #1

    Default Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Way too feminine?.

  2. #2
    Dependent magnus611's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    They've being known for that since then the regulations by the IFRA where in the lenient side of the spectrum. Hence, in modern times there's many regulations/restrictions the restrict their hands but there are always independent niche or Indy houses that still produce stallions...on your last statement I would say that is subjective to every individuals sense of smell and life experience or life nose experience.
    Last edited by magnus611; 4th July 2014 at 07:48 PM.
    "Thank GOD for the nose, for without it we would not be enjoying these beautiful created Scents" also Remember "Balance is everything and the key to appreciating "

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Neither.
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    This.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Depends so much on the context, the fragrance manufacturer/house/brand, the perfumer behind it, the market segment, the actual notes used and a lot more variables. But my faster, abridged answer would be, at first and generally speaking, mostly no. Sure, the more classic, more powerhouse, more vintage etc. male fragrances have a different kind of strength (even in EDT or lighter concentrations), are not always easily approachable, either very simple, straightforward or quite intricate, formal and overly elegant top notes, but they usually have a rewarding sillage and notes development. Sure, most male classics might not be instant bestsellers or popular compliment getters (with exceptions, of course), but offer (at least, from a personal viewpoint) quite an impressive range of uncommon and diverse notes once becoming used to them.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    30 years ago smoking was allowed basically everywhere and almost everyone smoked, fragrances today don't need to fight with clouds of smoke.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender. Its like when I see an ADULT bike rider with a suit of armor of knee pads, arm pads, elbow pads and helmet when he rides his bike around the neighborhood for 15 minutes. Are you frigging kidding me??? WTF. You dont need a suit of armor to ride a friggin bike fellas. Butch up a little! A scrape to the knee is not going to require amputation or anything. Blah Blah blah with the safety lecture. Please save it. I am talking about a lil ride around the neighborhood with no danger of cars. When the hell did vanilla, rose, lavendar, violet, lipstick, and baby powder become masculine? And when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?
    Last edited by SmellyFinger; 4th July 2014 at 11:32 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    No, I find many recent designer releases to be too harsh. Perhaps it's about the fleeting top notes, though. That is, most people are much more judgmental of scents based upon top notes, relative to me (I try to avoid most of the top notes). For me, it's the metallic, "oniony," "sticky," or otherwise "synthetic" qualities of many recent ones that I find harsh. Many vintage greats, though, have aromatic top notes that many "youngsters" today might not find pleasant.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Which classics are we discussing? I wore Polo (original green) for years "back then", but now I find it a bit harsh. Might be that pine note, not sure.
    Just because a fragrance is expensive, doesn’t necessarily make it smell better than a cheaper one.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    The classics aren't harsh nor are men today more "feminine." Fashion styles change and shift constantly. Gender likewise is a fluid construct that changes over time. Efforts to locate something of the 70s/80s/etc within a masculine/feminine binary from the vantage point of today is ahistoric.
    For example, gay men, often understood in the 1980s as "sissies" and/or "feminine," often wore the powerhouse fragrances of the day like Kouros and Antaeus. Gender/fragrance/etc are not stable or invariably linked.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    The advent of ozonic and clean merely put them into harsher contrast. I own oodles of classics and they are as variable as the modern scents in both projection and blending. However the back purr animalics of a good classic can trounce even the powerful modern perfumes anyday. Only the good indie perfumers can match that because they mostly don't belong to IFRA.
    Currently wearing: Beautiful by Estée Lauder

  12. #12

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I would have to say neither as well.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    I also have to say neither...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I couldn't have put it better. This country is well on its way to second rate status.

    QUOTE=SmellyFinger;3187597]I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender. Its like when I see an ADULT bike rider with a suit of armor of knee pads, arm pads, elbow pads and helmet when he rides his bike around the neighborhood for 15 minutes. Are you frigging kidding me??? WTF. You dont need a suit of armor to ride a friggin bike fellas. Butch up a little! A scrape to the knee is not going to require amputation or anything. Blah Blah blah with the safety lecture. Please save it. I am talking about a lil ride around the neighborhood with no danger of cars. When the hell did vanilla, rose, lavendar, violet, lipstick, and baby powder become masculine? And when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?[/QUOTE]
    John aka Easykiller
    Currently wearing: Santal Blush by Tom Ford

  15. #15

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by easykiller View Post
    I couldn't have put it better. This country is well on its way to second rate status.
    Let's stick to the topic and let's keep this from going political.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender.
    Agree. It is by design. You aren't allowed to have a "best friend" in some schools, you can't invite some kids to your birthday party without including everyone. They don't keep score in sports anymore. A society that looks for things to be offended by. The easiest was to get attention is to claim to be offended by someone or something, as if it's your God-given right to not have your feeling hurt.

    I grew up shooting guns. Today kids get suspended from school for chewing a pop-tart into the shape of a gun. A conscious effort to create a generation of spineless lazy entitled blobs - punishing achievement and rewarding stupidity, bad choices, and lazyness. Constantly looking for a new group of "victims" for political gain.

    However, I think it has nothing to do with the fragrances of today. Regulations and just general trends. Personally I don't like oakmoss-heavy, civet-laden skank bombs. But I'm not a sissy. Don't think the classics are too "harsh". I would love to have a bottle of the original Polo again. But I do like the moderns also. However, I don't want to project a 6' radius. I don't have any desire to shout my smell around to everyone. Not sure if that indeed makes me a sissy, but I think it is too much of a cry for attention when I smell people before I can see them coming.
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  17. #17

    Default Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Agree. It is by design. You aren't allowed to have a "best friend" in some schools, you can't invite some kids to your birthday party without including everyone. They don't keep score in sports anymore. A society that looks for things to be offended by. The easiest was to get attention is to claim to be offended by someone or something, as if it's your God-given right to not have your feeling hurt.

    I grew up shooting guns. Today kids get suspended from school for chewing a pop-tart into the shape of a gun. A conscious effort to create a generation of spineless lazy entitled blobs - punishing achievement and rewarding stupidity, bad choices, and lazyness. Constantly looking for a new group of "victims" for political gain.
    One more time: Let's stick to the topic and let's keep this from going political.

    Although I realize that's it's very hard to talk about this topic WITHOUT it going political. But do be conscientious in what you write, and remember that there are all different kinds of people who read Basenotes. It's not just Americans who come here.

    Steer clear of "this country is going down the tubes" or any egregious "men are supposed to be X" type posting and all should be okay. I'll try and add a cent or two later.
    Last edited by deadidol; 5th July 2014 at 02:39 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I guess by classic you mean anything produced around 1994 or before? How depressing...lol....anyways, I would say the notes and ingredients were better, but the blending is inferior to newer fragrances. Probably will get a few moans out of that statement. I guess you would have to grow up in that era to understand it, but excess was in. Now days it's about moderation and being tolerant...blah..blah..blah..the classic fragrances were unapologetic. I can see them being viewed as harsh, but these had attitude which you don't find too often in today's market.


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    Last edited by silentrich; 5th July 2014 at 02:00 AM. Reason: wrong text

  19. #19

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by easykiller View Post
    I couldn't have put it better. This country is well on its way to second rate status.
    Who would have known fragrances could be so socially important? LOL.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I'm not a fan of the retro scents - a lot of them have powder. Not exactly something I think is masculine explicitly. It's not that they're too loud either. But there's no need to announce yourself before you enter a room with a smell that might leave a bad mark. 70's/80's were brash, louder... 90's started this downward, more hushed and clean trend. I think IFRA might be the push to lighten things up.

    As a man that enjoys lighter, more personal scents, it's just my way of appreciating the art behind perfumery, but have it as a secondary/complimentary note to what makes me unique. As opposed to filling an entire room and invading their personal space.

    But that's just me and my opinion.
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  21. #21
    Dependent Akahina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Neither...but the word "metrosexual comes to mind. Some classics are harsh but tastes change. I like some classic powerhouses but my real love is for what I consider modern powerbouses. Are men more feminine now? No, but we are not nearly as confined to static and conventional gender roles as we once were, and that's a good thing. Am I more feminine now? No. But I jokingly sometimes say that I am twice the man you will ever be and twice the woman you will ever have!
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    If basenotes had existed 25 years ago, people would have been here, bashing the 70s and 80s fragrances and complaining about how they're not as good as scents from decades earlier. If basenotes is around 25 years from now, people will be here talking about how great the scents from the early 2000's were.

    There are more fragrances being made today than during any time in history, so of course there will be more garbage, but there will be more gems too. I really do think people take the present for granted in order to glorify the past.

    I always think it's funny when I see people complain about how much better fragrances used to be compared to modern releases, and then I look at their wardrobes and their Best Of lists, and what do I see? New, Modern, New, Modern, New, Modern. LOL!

    Anyone who thinks there aren't masculine fragrances being released today isn't paying attention to what's being released.

    Anyone who thinks there weren't feminine-leaning scents for men being released decades ago isn't familiar with men's scents from the past. They'e probably just thinking back on an uber-masculine era as if that's all there ever was. Ever smell Pour Un Homme de Caron? It's lavendar, vanilla and musk, and it's from 1934. Oh, and it's fantastic.

    If you think men are ultra-feminine today, sorry, but you're not familiar with history. It's July 4th for chrissakes!!! Our nation's forefathers wore dresses and wigs. They probably even used curlers for their wigs. French men of the era wore makeup. But men are too feminine today? Come on...

    Taste and style go through generational shifts. That's how it's always been and that's how it always will be. And I think that's great. Yes, men's fragrances do seem to be getting pretty sweet these days, and they're veering more and more into territory we once thought of as "for women," but the feedback I get from women when I wear Dior Homme Intense reminds me that I need to wear it more often. I'd say the same for Hanae Mori HM and Millesime Imperial. Are they uber-masculine? No. But, hey, I'm comfortable with my masculinity.
    Last edited by L'Homme Blanc Individuel; 5th July 2014 at 03:06 AM.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I find the opposite to be true. I only find your viewpoint (that classics are harsh) among younger people, who generally do not have a lot of experience with fragrances.

    The classics are smooth and luxurious. It's the modern fragrance that are harsh.

    I just shake my head when someone describes a classic as sharp or strong or harsh while praising some nostril incinerating, cloying, monotonous, monolithic recent fragrance. There's a huge difference between the organic, rich, complex, evolving classics and the overtly synthetic, senses bludgeoning, relatively static fragrances of today.

    Of course I am speaking in generalities. I buy, wear, and love many modern fragrances. But the concept that classic frags are harsh or sharp compared with modern fragrances is something I just don't understand.

  24. #24
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    It wouldn't be a classic if it was harsh. They're generally bigger, rounder, smoother, more complex, more mysterious, more chutzpah, etc. Basically a lot better overall.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I supposed men don't wear florals, huh? Barenaked cyclist is terrified of a whiff of vanilla? LOL. Excuse my exaggerations but it seems to me someone's been sleeping through history classes.

    Hey, where IS Primrose? We could do with another refresher lesson in fragrance (gender) history.
    Last edited by Diamondflame; 5th July 2014 at 08:05 AM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender. Its like when I see an ADULT bike rider with a suit of armor of knee pads, arm pads, elbow pads and helmet when he rides his bike around the neighborhood for 15 minutes. Are you frigging kidding me??? WTF. You dont need a suit of armor to ride a friggin bike fellas. Butch up a little! A scrape to the knee is not going to require amputation or anything. Blah Blah blah with the safety lecture. Please save it. I am talking about a lil ride around the neighborhood with no danger of cars. When the hell did vanilla, rose, lavendar, violet, lipstick, and baby powder become masculine? And when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?

    My daughter recently witnessed a cyclist in London being beheaded in the course of being run over by a small truck.
    And yes, that's a local neighbourhood to some of us.
    Which has little to do with your post but, hey, it's a misconception that masculinity is defined by the choice of perfume so why try to make it so?.
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    This thread has taken quite a dark turn! In any case, I wish any thread about claims of scents being too or not enough "masculine" or "feminine" were deleted quickly by the mods! However, the concept of harshness is interesting, as it may be related to the way most humans perceive odors.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 5th July 2014 at 08:53 AM.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I think the only harsh "classic" left is Grey Flannel.
    Polo and Quorum got neutered some time after 2000, and every shred of harshness was removed.
    Kouros, Paco Rabanne and Aramis were never that rough.
    Regards,
    Renato

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    So do I, Bigsly, but people complain when we close threads - let alone delete them

    The idea of 'harshness' is interesting, although I find many modern ingredients 'harsh' in the sense that they can grate on me.

    O.P. - this is a theme which crops up repeatedly, runs along in a predictable way for a bit & ends up with everyone just believing what they did to start with...usually after a few bad tempered spats.
    If you check out the Search function, there are pages of this stuff to read.
    Last edited by lpp; 5th July 2014 at 09:28 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    That just about sums things up nicely...
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
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    Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

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    Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)
    9) Javanese Patchouli (Zegna) - tie
    9) Monsieur de Givenchy vintage (Givenchy) - tie
    9) Coeur de Vetiver Sacré (L'Artisan) - tie
    9) X for Men (Clive Christian) - tie
    9) Patou pour Homme Privé (Jean Patou) - tie
    9) Oud Shamash (The Different Company) - tie

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