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  1. #1

    Default Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Way too feminine?.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    They've being known for that since then the regulations by the IFRA where in the lenient side of the spectrum. Hence, in modern times there's many regulations/restrictions the restrict their hands but there are always independent niche or Indy houses that still produce stallions...on your last statement I would say that is subjective to every individuals sense of smell and life experience or life nose experience.
    Last edited by magnus611; 4th July 2014 at 07:48 PM.
    "Thank GOD for the nose, for without it we would not be enjoying these beautiful created Scents" also Remember "Balance is everything and the key to appreciating "

  3. #3

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Neither.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    This.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Depends so much on the context, the fragrance manufacturer/house/brand, the perfumer behind it, the market segment, the actual notes used and a lot more variables. But my faster, abridged answer would be, at first and generally speaking, mostly no. Sure, the more classic, more powerhouse, more vintage etc. male fragrances have a different kind of strength (even in EDT or lighter concentrations), are not always easily approachable, either very simple, straightforward or quite intricate, formal and overly elegant top notes, but they usually have a rewarding sillage and notes development. Sure, most male classics might not be instant bestsellers or popular compliment getters (with exceptions, of course), but offer (at least, from a personal viewpoint) quite an impressive range of uncommon and diverse notes once becoming used to them.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    30 years ago smoking was allowed basically everywhere and almost everyone smoked, fragrances today don't need to fight with clouds of smoke.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender. Its like when I see an ADULT bike rider with a suit of armor of knee pads, arm pads, elbow pads and helmet when he rides his bike around the neighborhood for 15 minutes. Are you frigging kidding me??? WTF. You dont need a suit of armor to ride a friggin bike fellas. Butch up a little! A scrape to the knee is not going to require amputation or anything. Blah Blah blah with the safety lecture. Please save it. I am talking about a lil ride around the neighborhood with no danger of cars. When the hell did vanilla, rose, lavendar, violet, lipstick, and baby powder become masculine? And when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?
    Last edited by SmellyFinger; 4th July 2014 at 11:32 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    No, I find many recent designer releases to be too harsh. Perhaps it's about the fleeting top notes, though. That is, most people are much more judgmental of scents based upon top notes, relative to me (I try to avoid most of the top notes). For me, it's the metallic, "oniony," "sticky," or otherwise "synthetic" qualities of many recent ones that I find harsh. Many vintage greats, though, have aromatic top notes that many "youngsters" today might not find pleasant.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Which classics are we discussing? I wore Polo (original green) for years "back then", but now I find it a bit harsh. Might be that pine note, not sure.
    Licorice candy for breakfast, and another dab of Black Vines by Kerosene. And a spritz of Plum Japonais for Sunday.

    I like what I like what I like what I like what I like what I like what I like what I like what I like

  10. #10

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    The classics aren't harsh nor are men today more "feminine." Fashion styles change and shift constantly. Gender likewise is a fluid construct that changes over time. Efforts to locate something of the 70s/80s/etc within a masculine/feminine binary from the vantage point of today is ahistoric.
    For example, gay men, often understood in the 1980s as "sissies" and/or "feminine," often wore the powerhouse fragrances of the day like Kouros and Antaeus. Gender/fragrance/etc are not stable or invariably linked.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    The advent of ozonic and clean merely put them into harsher contrast. I own oodles of classics and they are as variable as the modern scents in both projection and blending. However the back purr animalics of a good classic can trounce even the powerful modern perfumes anyday. Only the good indie perfumers can match that because they mostly don't belong to IFRA.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I would have to say neither as well.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    I also have to say neither...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I couldn't have put it better. This country is well on its way to second rate status.

    QUOTE=SmellyFinger;3187597]I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender. Its like when I see an ADULT bike rider with a suit of armor of knee pads, arm pads, elbow pads and helmet when he rides his bike around the neighborhood for 15 minutes. Are you frigging kidding me??? WTF. You dont need a suit of armor to ride a friggin bike fellas. Butch up a little! A scrape to the knee is not going to require amputation or anything. Blah Blah blah with the safety lecture. Please save it. I am talking about a lil ride around the neighborhood with no danger of cars. When the hell did vanilla, rose, lavendar, violet, lipstick, and baby powder become masculine? And when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?[/QUOTE]
    John aka Easykiller

  15. #15

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by easykiller View Post
    I couldn't have put it better. This country is well on its way to second rate status.
    Let's stick to the topic and let's keep this from going political.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender.
    Agree. It is by design. You aren't allowed to have a "best friend" in some schools, you can't invite some kids to your birthday party without including everyone. They don't keep score in sports anymore. A society that looks for things to be offended by. The easiest was to get attention is to claim to be offended by someone or something, as if it's your God-given right to not have your feeling hurt.

    I grew up shooting guns. Today kids get suspended from school for chewing a pop-tart into the shape of a gun. A conscious effort to create a generation of spineless lazy entitled blobs - punishing achievement and rewarding stupidity, bad choices, and lazyness. Constantly looking for a new group of "victims" for political gain.

    However, I think it has nothing to do with the fragrances of today. Regulations and just general trends. Personally I don't like oakmoss-heavy, civet-laden skank bombs. But I'm not a sissy. Don't think the classics are too "harsh". I would love to have a bottle of the original Polo again. But I do like the moderns also. However, I don't want to project a 6' radius. I don't have any desire to shout my smell around to everyone. Not sure if that indeed makes me a sissy, but I think it is too much of a cry for attention when I smell people before I can see them coming.
    Seasonal favorites:

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    2. Creed - Aventus
    3. Dior - Vetiver
    4.
    by Kilian - Straight to Heaven
    5. by Kilian - Cruel Intentions
    6. Puredistance - Black
    7. Tom Ford - Plum Japonais
    8. Neela Vermeire - Trayee
    9. Creed - Royal Oud
    10. Chanel - Egoiste

  17. #17

    Default Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Agree. It is by design. You aren't allowed to have a "best friend" in some schools, you can't invite some kids to your birthday party without including everyone. They don't keep score in sports anymore. A society that looks for things to be offended by. The easiest was to get attention is to claim to be offended by someone or something, as if it's your God-given right to not have your feeling hurt.

    I grew up shooting guns. Today kids get suspended from school for chewing a pop-tart into the shape of a gun. A conscious effort to create a generation of spineless lazy entitled blobs - punishing achievement and rewarding stupidity, bad choices, and lazyness. Constantly looking for a new group of "victims" for political gain.
    One more time: Let's stick to the topic and let's keep this from going political.

    Although I realize that's it's very hard to talk about this topic WITHOUT it going political. But do be conscientious in what you write, and remember that there are all different kinds of people who read Basenotes. It's not just Americans who come here.

    Steer clear of "this country is going down the tubes" or any egregious "men are supposed to be X" type posting and all should be okay. I'll try and add a cent or two later.
    Last edited by deadidol; 5th July 2014 at 02:39 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I guess by classic you mean anything produced around 1994 or before? How depressing...lol....anyways, I would say the notes and ingredients were better, but the blending is inferior to newer fragrances. Probably will get a few moans out of that statement. I guess you would have to grow up in that era to understand it, but excess was in. Now days it's about moderation and being tolerant...blah..blah..blah..the classic fragrances were unapologetic. I can see them being viewed as harsh, but these had attitude which you don't find too often in today's market.


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    Last edited by silentrich; 5th July 2014 at 02:00 AM. Reason: wrong text

  19. #19

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by easykiller View Post
    I couldn't have put it better. This country is well on its way to second rate status.
    Who would have known fragrances could be so socially important? LOL.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I'm not a fan of the retro scents - a lot of them have powder. Not exactly something I think is masculine explicitly. It's not that they're too loud either. But there's no need to announce yourself before you enter a room with a smell that might leave a bad mark. 70's/80's were brash, louder... 90's started this downward, more hushed and clean trend. I think IFRA might be the push to lighten things up.

    As a man that enjoys lighter, more personal scents, it's just my way of appreciating the art behind perfumery, but have it as a secondary/complimentary note to what makes me unique. As opposed to filling an entire room and invading their personal space.

    But that's just me and my opinion.

  21. #21
    Dependent Akahina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Neither...but the word "metrosexual comes to mind. Some classics are harsh but tastes change. I like some classic powerhouses but my real love is for what I consider modern powerbouses. Are men more feminine now? No, but we are not nearly as confined to static and conventional gender roles as we once were, and that's a good thing. Am I more feminine now? No. But I jokingly sometimes say that I am twice the man you will ever be and twice the woman you will ever have!
    My Favorites

    1. Amouage Epic man
    2. Dior Leather Oud
    3. Perris Monte Carlo Oud Imperial Black
    4. Le Labo Patchouli 24
    5. Amouage Opus VII
    6. Byredo Bullion
    7. Norma Kamali Incense



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  22. #22

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    If basenotes had existed 25 years ago, people would have been here, bashing the 70s and 80s fragrances and complaining about how they're not as good as scents from decades earlier. If basenotes is around 25 years from now, people will be here talking about how great the scents from the early 2000's were.

    There are more fragrances being made today than during any time in history, so of course there will be more garbage, but there will be more gems too. I really do think people take the present for granted in order to glorify the past.

    I always think it's funny when I see people complain about how much better fragrances used to be compared to modern releases, and then I look at their wardrobes and their Best Of lists, and what do I see? New, Modern, New, Modern, New, Modern. LOL!

    Anyone who thinks there aren't masculine fragrances being released today isn't paying attention to what's being released.

    Anyone who thinks there weren't feminine-leaning scents for men being released decades ago isn't familiar with men's scents from the past. They'e probably just thinking back on an uber-masculine era as if that's all there ever was. Ever smell Pour Un Homme de Caron? It's lavendar, vanilla and musk, and it's from 1934. Oh, and it's fantastic.

    If you think men are ultra-feminine today, sorry, but you're not familiar with history. It's July 4th for chrissakes!!! Our nation's forefathers wore dresses and wigs. They probably even used curlers for their wigs. French men of the era wore makeup. But men are too feminine today? Come on...

    Taste and style go through generational shifts. That's how it's always been and that's how it always will be. And I think that's great. Yes, men's fragrances do seem to be getting pretty sweet these days, and they're veering more and more into territory we once thought of as "for women," but the feedback I get from women when I wear Dior Homme Intense reminds me that I need to wear it more often. I'd say the same for Hanae Mori HM and Millesime Imperial. Are they uber-masculine? No. But, hey, I'm comfortable with my masculinity.
    Last edited by L'Homme Blanc Individuel; 5th July 2014 at 03:06 AM.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  23. #23

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I find the opposite to be true. I only find your viewpoint (that classics are harsh) among younger people, who generally do not have a lot of experience with fragrances.

    The classics are smooth and luxurious. It's the modern fragrance that are harsh.

    I just shake my head when someone describes a classic as sharp or strong or harsh while praising some nostril incinerating, cloying, monotonous, monolithic recent fragrance. There's a huge difference between the organic, rich, complex, evolving classics and the overtly synthetic, senses bludgeoning, relatively static fragrances of today.

    Of course I am speaking in generalities. I buy, wear, and love many modern fragrances. But the concept that classic frags are harsh or sharp compared with modern fragrances is something I just don't understand.

  24. #24
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    It wouldn't be a classic if it was harsh. They're generally bigger, rounder, smoother, more complex, more mysterious, more chutzpah, etc. Basically a lot better overall.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I supposed men don't wear florals, huh? Barenaked cyclist is terrified of a whiff of vanilla? LOL. Excuse my exaggerations but it seems to me someone's been sleeping through history classes.

    Hey, where IS Primrose? We could do with another refresher lesson in fragrance (gender) history.
    Last edited by Diamondflame; 5th July 2014 at 08:05 AM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    I agree that there have been many external factors, but there has been a sissy-fication of the male gender. Its like when I see an ADULT bike rider with a suit of armor of knee pads, arm pads, elbow pads and helmet when he rides his bike around the neighborhood for 15 minutes. Are you frigging kidding me??? WTF. You dont need a suit of armor to ride a friggin bike fellas. Butch up a little! A scrape to the knee is not going to require amputation or anything. Blah Blah blah with the safety lecture. Please save it. I am talking about a lil ride around the neighborhood with no danger of cars. When the hell did vanilla, rose, lavendar, violet, lipstick, and baby powder become masculine? And when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?

    My daughter recently witnessed a cyclist in London being beheaded in the course of being run over by a small truck.
    And yes, that's a local neighbourhood to some of us.
    Which has little to do with your post but, hey, it's a misconception that masculinity is defined by the choice of perfume so why try to make it so?.
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    This thread has taken quite a dark turn! In any case, I wish any thread about claims of scents being too or not enough "masculine" or "feminine" were deleted quickly by the mods! However, the concept of harshness is interesting, as it may be related to the way most humans perceive odors.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 5th July 2014 at 08:53 AM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I think the only harsh "classic" left is Grey Flannel.
    Polo and Quorum got neutered some time after 2000, and every shred of harshness was removed.
    Kouros, Paco Rabanne and Aramis were never that rough.
    Regards,
    Renato

  29. #29

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    So do I, Bigsly, but people complain when we close threads - let alone delete them

    The idea of 'harshness' is interesting, although I find many modern ingredients 'harsh' in the sense that they can grate on me.

    O.P. - this is a theme which crops up repeatedly, runs along in a predictable way for a bit & ends up with everyone just believing what they did to start with...usually after a few bad tempered spats.
    If you check out the Search function, there are pages of this stuff to read.
    Last edited by lpp; 5th July 2014 at 09:28 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    That just about sums things up nicely...
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    4) Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

    6) Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)

  31. #31

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    "when did a good 8 hours of longevity and 3-4 feet of projection become "loud"?..."

    If you look at the history of fragrance, several hundred years, you'll see the period where 4 foot projection was socially acceptable, probably mid 70's to early 90's, is quite short. Wearing anything with that much projection to the office before or after that time had you marked out as "The Cologne Guy". Sure, strong projecting frag were launched before and after then (Brut, 1 Million), but big projection was only acceptable in that short time span, so it is more the exception than the rule. And remember, not all powerhouses from that time were "butch", Joop and Le Male are strong but sweet, and just as unpleasant if you are trapped in an elevator with someone wearing them.

    As for what is or isn't harsh, I find Leather accords to be harsh, but then I find most synthetic white musk notes just as harsh.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    My daughter recently witnessed a cyclist in London being beheaded in the course of being run over by a small truck.
    And yes, that's a local neighbourhood to some of us.
    I debated whether to even post this after seeing the earlier motorcycle posting that implied someone is "less manly" if they use protective gear while riding, but here goes... Two of my direct reports at work in a row died due to motorcycle accidents, both in their twenties. I only wish they were wearing the proper protective gear that could have possibly saved their lives. If wearing protective gear makes someone "less masculine" to some, so be it. I think following proper safety guidelines is just being smart and has nothing to do with one's fragrance choices or their masculinity (or femininity, for that matter).
    Last edited by drseid; 5th July 2014 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Grammar...
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    4) Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

    6) Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)

  33. #33

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Wouldn't know. After a long day at the slaughterhouse, a quick, bloody afterwork boxing session (after a few pints usually), I come home and relax in some Givenchy Pi. My women love it.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    It is the way mens fashion is now all across the board. Suits, casual wear, jeans, accessories and fragrance are tailored to fit a certain kind of male. Bringing it back to fragrance, traditional men's perfume is still pretty prominent but if a company were to produce the classic syle of mens fragrance only, theyd be leaving lots of money on the table. As long as you have men who wear women's fragrances, it's not gonna be like the 70's and 80's with the super masculine scents
    Seasonal rotation:

    Santal Imperial
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    Green Irish Tweed
    Original Santal
    Prada Amber PH

  35. #35

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    My daughter recently witnessed a cyclist in London being beheaded in the course of being run over by a small truck.
    And yes, that's a local neighbourhood to some of us.
    Which has little to do with your post but, hey, it's a misconception that masculinity is defined by the choice of perfume so why try to make it so?.
    Was wondering how long before someone would bring up a bicycle death. Of course all the elbow pads wouldn't help someone getting beheaded by a truck. But that wasn't the point anyway.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    In the spirit of this thread, I'll be wear Une Rose today.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    Was wondering how long before someone would bring up a bicycle death. Of course all the elbow pads wouldn't help someone getting beheaded by a truck. But that wasn't the point anyway.
    It seemed to me that a lot of men aren't living up to a sexuality stereotype that you're comfortable with, and that says little about them and a lot about you and your perceptions. I'm not saying that to be rude. The person judging always tells more about himself or herself than they do about those being judged. The idea that real men don't wear protective gear when it's called for is an outdated stereotype. Real men, just like real women, take care of themselves - especially if they have families they're taking care of too. A lot more people were killed in senseless accidents in the past due to their lack of protective gear, but I guess they looked more "manly" or something.

    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?

    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?

    The original question was:

    Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...
    Way too feminine?.
    The answer is: The classics you're referring to are the reflection of the tastes and preferences of people from that particular era. I'm guessing that when you say "The Classics" you're only referring to one particular era and are forgetting everything that came before.

    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  38. #38
    Dependent caferacer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    It seemed to me that a lot of men aren't living up to a sexuality stereotype that you're comfortable with, and that says little about them and a lot about you and your perceptions. I'm not saying that to be rude. The person judging always tells more about himself or herself than they do about those being judged. The idea that real men don't wear protective gear when it's called for is an outdated stereotype. Real men, just like real women, take care of themselves - especially if they have families they're taking care of too. A lot more people were killed in senseless accidents in the past due to their lack of protective gear, but I guess they looked more "manly" or something.

    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?

    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?

    The original question was:



    The answer is: The classics you're referring to are the reflection of the tastes and preferences of people from that particular era. I'm guessing that when you say "The Classics" you're only referring to one particular era and are forgetting everything that came before.

    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    +1 to all of this.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    And if you go back to the beginning of modern perfumery the men and women all wore the same anyway. I don't think Farina whipped up male and female editions of his "fragrant waters".

  40. #40

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Okay, for those who want ultra-"masculine" or ultra-"feminine" scents (for men), and don't want to pay much, here are my suggestions:

    1. Roll around in some horse manure.
    2. Drizzle dollar store fake maple syrup all over your torso, then coat that with some sugar.

    Can you guess which is the masculine option and which is the feminine one?

  41. #41

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    I think that a sample pass may be needed...
    Directory contribution link:-
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

  42. #42

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I think that a sample pass may be needed...
    I'll pass on that pass.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  43. #43

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Okay, for those who want ultra-"masculine" or ultra-"feminine" scents (for men), and don't want to pay much, here are my suggestions:

    1. Roll around in some horse manure.
    2. Drizzle dollar store fake maple syrup all over your torso, then coat that with some sugar.

    Can you guess which is the masculine option and which is the feminine one?
    I don't know the answer to your question, but 1 is niche and 2 is designer.

  44. #44
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    It's rare to see anything worth reading on this site anymore. The place has turned into a bunch of morons who know as much about perfume as I know about thermodynamics, which ain't much. :-)

  45. #45

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Okay, for those who want ultra-"masculine" or ultra-"feminine" scents (for men), and don't want to pay much, here are my suggestions:

    1. Roll around in some horse manure.
    2. Drizzle dollar store fake maple syrup all over your torso, then coat that with some sugar.

    Can you guess which is the masculine option and which is the feminine one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    I don't know the answer to your question, but 1 is niche and 2 is designer.

    LOL Marais - that made my day! Good one...

  46. #46

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    It's rare to see anything worth reading on this site anymore. The place has turned into a bunch of morons who know as much about perfume as I know about thermodynamics, which ain't much. :-)
    Well, goodbye then I guess. The only thing you seem to contribute is to call all current fragrances garbage, almost all Basenoters morons, and to follow Mr. Reasonable around and +1 anything he says.

    If you know anything at all about fragrances, I must have missed those posts.
    Seasonal favorites:

    1. Creed - Spice & Wood
    2. Creed - Aventus
    3. Dior - Vetiver
    4.
    by Kilian - Straight to Heaven
    5. by Kilian - Cruel Intentions
    6. Puredistance - Black
    7. Tom Ford - Plum Japonais
    8. Neela Vermeire - Trayee
    9. Creed - Royal Oud
    10. Chanel - Egoiste

  47. #47

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    The only thing you seem to contribute is to call all current fragrances garbage, almost all Basenoters morons,
    Agree - have seen this occur a few times...I have however seen many good posts in the archives of BN from Pluran & many others - but in the past only.

    I have respected & read a "lot" of wonderful reviews & interesting posts from older BN including pluran - but off late, all I see are ridiculing the new fragrances. I love vintages too - I own many & I constantly am in search for many of these, however, there are new ones I like equally & ridiculing all new ones in general as garbage seems as useless a post as others saying +1's as you yourself mention it Pluran...

  48. #48

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    It seemed to me that a lot of men aren't living up to a sexuality stereotype that you're comfortable with, and that says little about them and a lot about you and your perceptions. I'm not saying that to be rude. The person judging always tells more about himself or herself than they do about those being judged. The idea that real men don't wear protective gear when it's called for is an outdated stereotype. Real men, just like real women, take care of themselves - especially if they have families they're taking care of too. A lot more people were killed in senseless accidents in the past due to their lack of protective gear, but I guess they looked more "manly" or something.

    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?

    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?

    The original question was:



    The answer is: The classics you're referring to are the reflection of the tastes and preferences of people from that particular era. I'm guessing that when you say "The Classics" you're only referring to one particular era and are forgetting everything that came before.

    It'd be great to get a historical perspective on men's scents through the decades. I guarantee the past wasn't as hyper-masculine as you think.
    Thanks for the insightful psychoanalysis. I will give it the attention it deserves. As for the protective gear analogy, you are expanding it well beyond what I stated. I have a neighbor who goes for a 15 minute bike ride, in an enclosed neighborhood, with sidewalks, with a bike trail, and with enough protective gear for a Medieval joust. That is a puss. A wuss. And a dork. Sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, but whatever. I fully support any child and any adult for protecting themselves against any danger and using whatever they want. Its just a little overkill for me. I would think he is in more danger from tipping over wearing all that crap, but to each his own. I wonder if he wears the gear when he uses his treadmill or on the stationary bike in his spinning class with the gals. I'll have to ask.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Smell is a sense, just like taste. Do you agree with everyone on how strong everything tastes?

  50. #50

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Well, goodbye then I guess. The only thing you seem to contribute is to call all current fragrances garbage, almost all Basenoters morons, and to follow Mr. Reasonable around and +1 anything he says.

    If you know anything at all about fragrances, I must have missed those posts.
    +1, and to plug the latest Luca Turin review. Good riddance.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    It's rare to see anything worth reading on this site anymore. The place has turned into a bunch of morons who know as much about perfume as I know about thermodynamics, which ain't much. :-)
    I can tell that you're a people person. Good luck with your superior intellect.
    Last edited by silentrich; 6th July 2014 at 01:20 AM.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Neither.
    This.

  53. #53

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    As for fragrances and sexuality stereotypes... it's worth keeping a few things in mind:

    #1: At least half of all men's fragrances are purchased by women, either for the men in their lives or to wear themselves. Think about that for a moment. If you were making a product for men, and you knew that half of all purchases were going to be made by women, wouldn't you be foolish to not cater to those women's tastes?
    Good point. But I would also be concerned that the man in question would return that product if it did not suit his taste and seek a competitor's product that is more appealing.


    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    #2: Think about how many men wear fragrance specifically to attract women. If you were trying to make a men's fragrance - especially one that could potentially be a best seller - wouldn't you cater at least a bit to what women enjoy and find attractive?
    Absolutely. But are they catering to women's tastes? That is debatable. Or are they catering to what they perceive those tastes are? And maybe they are getting it wrong? I think most women prefer that their man smell masculine and not like an 18th Century Parisian dandy. I concede that most people (men and women) do not want room length projection or Pigpen sillage. But they clearly do not want watered down skin scents that are indiscernable from one another. People actually want others to smell the cologne that they buy. That is the point. Give me a solid 2-3 feet of projection and enough longevity to get me through the work day and they may make a lot of us much more satisfied and loyal. I think many men have been conditioned that the performance of the 70s-90s was not ideal, so that the designers/houses can manufacture cheaper products with cheaper materials. Regulations aside.
    Last edited by SmellyFinger; 6th July 2014 at 01:15 AM.

  54. #54

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Whether the OP intended it or not, the original post was an invitation to nastiness. May I suggest that the mods insist on deleting any OT post here or any clearly nasty one?

  55. #55

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Whether the OP intended it or not, the original post was an invitation to nastiness. May I suggest that the mods insist on deleting any OT post here or any clearly nasty one?
    I agree, and it certainly achieved its goals. I'd invite to chill out, avoid responding to anything even remotely "bait-y", and one of us will return with the mop as soon as we have chance.

  56. #56

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    Absolutely. But are they catering to women's tastes? That is debatable. Or are they catering to what they perceive those tastes are?
    No, actually. It isn't debatable. Niche houses tend to take more risks, but designers put a ton of money into market research for products they're working on. If anything is debatable, it's that designers are trying too hard to cater to shoppers' tastes - both male and female shoppers - by trying to use market research as if it's a paint by numbers recipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyFinger View Post
    And maybe they are getting it wrong? I think most women prefer that their man smell masculine and not like an 18th Century Parisian dandy.
    I always think it's hilarious (and also kind of sad) when a man thinks he's the expert at what women want. Here's a friendly tip: it's smarter to ask women what they like rather than guess. If you pay attention, you'll quickly realize that different women enjoy different things. Then again, I'm not sure how much you understand that different men enjoy different things. Or, maybe you do understand it, but any man who has different tastes than your own is way too feminine.

    The more comfortable you become with who you are, the less you need to foolishly treat masculinity as if it's some sort of benchmark.

    Pour Un Homme De Caron has three notes: Lavender, Vanilla and Musk. It's from the 1930s. My point? The hyper-masculine scents you refer to as the classics are indeed classics, but they're not the only classics, nor do they represent all classics.

    You keep putting your own insecurities into your descriptions of other men. Look at the amount of negative terminology and descriptions that you use. It's one thing to point out that a particular fragrance smells feminine to you. That's a fair assessment. It's another to insult the masculinity of any man who doesn't fit your view of what masculine should be. You began this thread by asking if men are, and I quote, "way too feminine" to handle the classics. I mention a historical context to show that the view of masculinity changes through generations. Your reply uses terms like "18th Century Parisian dandy." You've used terms like puss and wuss, and suggested a man who wears protective gear while cycling is probably also going to "his spinning class with the gals."

    Your words are sexist. You're insulting the masculinity of anyone who doesn't fit your stereotype. Frankly, I think the stereotype is outdated. That's just my opinion.

    I really do hope you understand the difference between judging a scent and judging other people. The two are entirely different.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  57. #57

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    No, actually. It isn't debatable. Niche houses tend to take more risks, but designers put a ton of money into market research for products they're working on. If anything is debatable, it's that designers are trying too hard to cater to shoppers' tastes - both male and female shoppers - by trying to use market research as if it's a paint by numbers recipe.



    I always think it's hilarious (and also kind of sad) when a man thinks he's the expert at what women want. Here's a friendly tip: it's smarter to ask women what they like rather than guess. If you pay attention, you'll quickly realize that different women enjoy different things. Then again, I'm not sure how much you understand that different men enjoy different things. Or, maybe you do understand it, but any man who has different tastes than your own is way too feminine.

    The more comfortable you become with who you are, the less you need to foolishly treat masculinity as if it's some sort of benchmark.

    Pour Un Homme De Caron has three notes: Lavender, Vanilla and Musk. It's from the 1930s. My point? The hyper-masculine scents you refer to as the classics are indeed classics, but they're not the only classics, nor do they represent all classics.

    You keep putting your own insecurities into your descriptions of other men. Look at the amount of negative terminology and descriptions that you use. It's one thing to point out that a particular fragrance smells feminine to you. That's a fair assessment. It's another to insult the masculinity of any man who doesn't fit your view of what masculine should be. You began this thread by asking if men are, and I quote, "way too feminine" to handle the classics. I mention a historical context to show that the view of masculinity changes through generations. Your reply uses terms like "18th Century Parisian dandy." You've used terms like puss and wuss, and suggested a man who wears protective gear while cycling is probably also going to "his spinning class with the gals."

    Your words are sexist. You're insulting the masculinity of anyone who doesn't fit your stereotype. Frankly, I think the stereotype is outdated. That's just my opinion.

    I really do hope you understand the difference between judging a scent and judging other people. The two are entirely different.
    Actually, I find CPuH to be quite harsh (circa 1960 as well as recent formulation), and I think that, as I said before, it is more useful to talk about general human tendencies in terms of the perception of "harshness." For me, the "masculine/feminine" stuff is just troll material. I agree that testing is probably very important to the "designer" scent industry and I'd argue that it's likely they have found that the "newbie nose," which is 99% or so of the people they will sell to, prefer softer though more synthetic top notes. Some of us have come to enjoy the older and stronger aromatic openings, and in fact find the new synthetics to be "harsh" (and often lasting for the entire course of the scent's development!), but if someone likes the new stuff, there's nothing wrong with that either. At best, this topic can only result in generalizations, and it mostly seems to come down to what one is used to or what one has developed an appreciation for after years of experience.

  58. #58

    Default Re: Are the "Classics" Really that Harsh or are Most Men Simply...

    This thread has gone where the OP intended.

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