Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    87

    Default Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I just bought some new Serge Lutens Chergui and L'Artisan Timbuktu and while they are lovely, they seem quite a bit lighter than I remember them when I received samples a few years ago. And on my way to pick them up in the mail I stopped at duty free and smelled the latest iterations of Dior Homme and Dior Homme Intense. I was quite aghast...I have 2010 formulations before they were redone and redone again. And they seem almost nothing alike (well a little) but hardly the strength or potency of what I have at home, I'm starting to think all these reformulations and banning of allergan molecules has and will seriously impair the fragrance world as we know it. Unless my nose has gone foul, I've noticed a distinct degradation (in strength/potency at least) of the fragrances mentioned. Your thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    It's a common claim, but I stay away from recent batches unless I purchase a lot of different ones and they are included. I have noticed that some scents do seem very similar but considerably weaker. Not much you can do other than search for the older ones. I get a good laugh when I read posts about the fear of getting "old stock" and worrying about "freshness." These aren't brownies people! They are highly synthetic in almost all cases and unless you are mostly in it for the fleeting top notes you probably want "old stock," IMO.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 24th July 2014 at 08:57 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I think "ruined" is a bit of a strong word. I'd prefer to say - changed for the worse. I've smelled the Dior Homme that's available now, and when my two bottles of vintage dry up, I'll have no problem purchasing the new one.
    Last edited by JiveHippo; 24th July 2014 at 06:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Junkie Wheatstraw2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    858

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    The consensus is that reformulations are bad and that perfumery is going south, never to return, because of regulations on ingredients. Going against the consensus, which is in my demeanor to do, and while agreeing that a reformulation almost always pisses people off, my feeling is that perfumey has become better in the last decade and I prefer new stuff, mostly, to the old, gross, moldy chypres and fougeres of yesteryear.

    It is true that reformulations do kind of exploit and violate one's sense of loyalty and you can easily feel victimized by this. Reformulations are also kind of an unannounced inflation imposed on consumers. The price didn't go up, but the quality went down.

    I have accelerated some purchases, recently, out of fear of reformulation. But that doesn't mean that I think that we're entering a dark age - it just means that I'm being protective of what I know I like. There will be plenty of new things for me to like in the future. But I also thought that when I hit retirement age I'd have the ability to accumulate a nice Amouage attar collection at a leisurely pace. Instead I had to buy all of them in one month. In April. That was messed up!

    Edit: I like the current Chergui a lot but I don't know the old Chergui.
    Last edited by Wheatstraw2; 24th July 2014 at 06:52 AM. Reason: numerous typos and synapse misfires

  5. #5
    hednic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    McLean, NYC, & Búzios
    Posts
    82,712

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Not ruined, just changed fragrances. Most are not coveted but to others, some are surprisingly good.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  6. #6
    Dependent
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    New York city
    Posts
    1,485

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I think reformulation has helped Dior Homme
    Seasonal rotation:

    Original Santal
    Dior Homme
    Tuscan Leather
    Silver Mountain Water
    Lyric Man

  7. #7

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    There are some fragrances e.g. Fahrenheit that were butchered by reformulations. On the other side, I prefer reformulated Encre Noire over "vintage". IMO it really depends on your taste and not every reformulation destroys fragrance for everyone (but rarely its reformulation for better).
    TOP 3 hot weather:

    1. Gucci Pour Homme II
    2. Lalique Encre Noire
    3. Creed Aventus


    TOP 3 cold weather:

    1. L'Instant de Guerlain Pour Homme Extreme
    2. Chanel Coromandel
    3. Dior Homme

  8. #8

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheatstraw2 View Post
    The consensus is that reformulations are bad and that perfumery is going south, never to return, because of regulations on ingredients. Going against the consensus, which is in my demeanor to do, and while agreeing that a reformulation almost always pisses people off, my feeling is that perfumey has become better in the last decade and I prefer new stuff, mostly, to the old, gross, moldy chypres and fougeres of yesteryear.
    Fair enough but I think you're confusing two issues here - reformulations and your own personal taste.

    I personally haven't found a reformulated scent that is an improvement over the original - although, of course, that is arguably subjective.

    With regard to the second part of your statement - you prefer 'modern' perfumes to the classic chypre and fougere genres, that's fine but I don't it's an argument that 'perfumery has become better in the last decade'.

    There is still some interesting stuff being made, and given the huge increase in in releases I suppose the odds are that there is the potential for more good 'uns to slip thru the cracks (by that I mean they are not focus grouped into mediocrity) but you have to look pretty hard to find them.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  9. #9
    Basenotes Junkie Wheatstraw2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    858

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Well, there's more that I like among the current crop, stuff like Ambre Nuit and Reflection Man and Treizieme Heure that, at least it's my impression that the man on the street didn't have this range of choices available twenty years ago. And when you get to experience the mouth-watering realism of some of the new-ish Hermes cologne collection it, mostly, not always, seems like technology and creativity have outfoxed the regulations that everyone bemoans. Now, yes, as a matter of personal preference, I like sweet smoothies like Gaultier 2 and La Nuit much more than the stale lavender and oakmoss warhorses of the 80s. Or 70s. Or whenever that was. I enjoy that there's been a blurring of gender-based fragrance marketing in the meantime, too.

    So, yes, I need to clarify. Regulation and en masse reformulations have not ruined perfumery, not at all, I believe, but in individual cases, reformulation has ruined fragrances, yes it has. Sometimes it's regulation driven, and sometimes it's just the maisons cutting corners. I'll take an honest price increase over a sneaky reformulation every time, but you do get more of the latter.

    Maybe I turned this into a bigger issue than the thread really called for.

  10. #10
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    87

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I appreciate all the comments, and certainly wheatstraw it is an issue worth discussing and expanding on, I too wonder whether reformulations, Especially by those like Dior (LVMh) I wonder about the cutting of costs and then going through a couple to get it right eventually (or not) ....I'll have to give e newest Dior some time on my skin. I'm dying to try the rerelease of Yojhi Homme to compare to my vintage bottle if anyone knows where to buy it in North America.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Dior Homme latest reformulation is top-notch. As close as it gets to the vintage version, Never smelled any reforms that was this perfect before.

    For Chergui, it's was just decent at best for me pre-reformulation. It stays the same after.

    Timbuktu is just a little bit weaker. Dries down with less smoke, floral notes are more pronounced. I prefer the old dry-down though.
    My current top 10 fragrances :
    1. Amouage Jubilation XXV
    2. A Lab on Fire Almost Transparent Blue
    3. YSL L'Homme Libre
    4. Tauer Perfumes L'Air du Desert Marocain
    5. Rania J. Ambre Loup
    6. Atelier Cologne Cedrat Enivrant
    7. Parfum MDCI Ambre Topkapi
    8. Imaginary Authors Memoirs of a Trespasser
    9. Heeley Sel Marin
    10. by Kilian Back to Black

  12. #12

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by cybermorph View Post
    I'm dying to try the rerelease of Yojhi Homme to compare to my vintage bottle if anyone knows where to buy it in North America.
    Not sure but I imagine you will need to find a Yohji flagship, or at least a Yohji (fashion line) stockist with a significant profile. I got some from a friend in London (Yohji flagship store) and picked up some more recently in the Aoyama flagship in Tokyo. Needless to say I love it and have been wearing it a lot, but it is a little more 'sheer' than the original. Sort of like a step down from an EDP to an EDT. Nevertheless - still a good buy in my estimation.
    Last edited by mr. reasonable; 24th July 2014 at 09:12 AM.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  13. #13
    Basenotes Plus
    du57in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Lansing, MI
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I'm torn on this subject. Before I started really lurking Basenotes I found fragrances like TdH and Encre Noire making a lot of "best of" lists so I bought them and instantly fell in love. I like TdH so much right now that the pre-reformulation might not do it for me. It wouldn't be the fragrance I fell in love with, which is why I can understand people hating reformulations. A part of me can't help but think they can't be that bad because so many people still like them, but the thought of buying another bottle of Eau Sauvage Parfum and having it smell drastically different keeps me up at night.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I think the trouble starts when you fall in love with a fragrance, or even just get used to it, and the next time you buy it, it has changed. Doesn't matter if it is "better" or "worse" it is different. There are at least three fragrances I own which I will not be buying again, as they are so very different. I think the changes that have been made are for the worst (and involve the removal or replacement of Moss and Nitromusk), but it is the change that I object to.

  15. #15
    dfranz
    Guest

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I think it's an overblown hype that exists only on this forum.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    A few reformulations have been for the better, a few for the worse.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Preston H View Post
    I think reformulation has helped Dior Homme
    I disagree. IMO, the older formulation is somehow 'classier'. The current formulation just smells like the junior brother of the current DHI. My point is, the older formulations of DH and DHI warranted owing both, but with the current lot being so similar, it would suffice to own any one (DHI for most).

  18. #18

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfranz View Post
    I think it's an overblown hype that exists only on this forum.
    Maybe you should broaden your reading habits a bit.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  19. #19

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Most reformulations have been for the worse, but overall modern perfumery is vastly superior to the stuff people wore to the discos 40 years ago.

    Not sure about the future however...
    Seasonal favorites:

    1. Creed - Spice & Wood
    2. Creed - Aventus
    3. Dior - Vetiver
    4. by Kilian - Incense Oud
    5. Puredistance - Black
    6. by Kilian - Cruel Intentions
    7. Armani Privé - Oud Royal
    8. Brückner - Aoud 1
    9. Neela Vermeire - Trayee
    10. Creed - Royal Oud

  20. #20
    dfranz
    Guest

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    Maybe you should broaden your reading habits a bit.
    Actually, I read a new book every 2-4 days, usually non-fiction and across a very wide variety of topics.

    I get your point, though.

    I'm not saying reformulations don't happen; that would be stupid. Just that this seems to be the main/only place where it leads to the sky falling.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    I usually cannot tell. I think it might make some fragrances lighter and not last as long. the one I can say with 100% certainty that has been completely demolished is the original polo, the green bottle. the current formulation smells terrible to me

  22. #22

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfranz View Post
    Actually, I read a new book every 2-4 days, usually non-fiction and across a very wide variety of topics.

    I get your point, though.

    I'm not saying reformulations don't happen; that would be stupid. Just that this seems to be the main/only place where it leads to the sky falling.
    I enjoy some of the perfume blogs and articles and have chatted with a few perfumers and creative directors over the last few years and it's a major blow to the industry and the art of perfume - to be honest I find a lot of the posts here on BN about 5 years or so behind the eight ball. I bought a lot of back-ups some years ago when it became clear oak moss and bergamot were in the firing line. Several of the Guerlains I like have been discontinued - they just took the view that it wasn't worth making them anymore (although I imagine they also took popularity / light sales figures into consideration before discontinuing them).
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  23. #23
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    6,960

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by cybermorph View Post
    I....... Your thoughts?
    Killed many, had a negative effect on most of the others. The older fragrances (most of the great classics) have long and complicated formulas filled with plenty of natural ingredients, many of which have no synthetic substitute. Those fragrances stand no chance against EU/IFRA regulations.

    Even though modern fragrances are filled with an abundance of cheap and plentiful aromachemicals to give the illusion of real substance, most modern compositions are usually meager and simple. Still, many of them have also been attenuated into something less. I just smelled one of the few great modern fragrances which was made in 2007. It was a staggering leather chypre that now smells like an interesting shampoo.
    Last edited by pluran; 25th July 2014 at 04:56 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Chergui is still nice. The new Dior Homme smells good as well. I don't have the nose others do, so maybe I can't pick up on the nuance, but I usually don't experience the issues others do with reformulations.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Killed many, had a negative effect on most of the others. The older fragrances (most of the great classics) have long and complicated formulas filled with plenty of natural ingredients, many of which have no synthetic substitute. Those fragrances stand no chance against EU/IFRA regulations.

    Even though modern fragrances are filled with an abundance of cheap and plentiful aromachemicals to give the illusion of real substance, most modern compositions are usually meager and simple. Still, many of them have also been attenuated into something less. I just smelled one of the few great modern fragrances which was made in 2007. It was a staggering leather chypre that now smells like an interesting shampoo.
    And what was the 2007 fragrance?

    Regardless of semantics, my answer is 'yes'.

  26. #26
    kumquat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    8,544
    Blog Entries
    98

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Tinkering with a formula changes a perfume so much that it it is no longer the same juice. You are being scammed by these companies. They should not be allowed to charge the money they do for the perfume when it is a completely different concoction. It's like listening to an Elvis impersonator sing "Heartbreak Hotel" and saying you heard it from the King himself. Unh uh. I'm not buying it and they shouldn't be selling it.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by taint it sweet View Post
    Chergui is still nice. The new Dior Homme smells good as well. I don't have the nose others do, so maybe I can't pick up on the nuance, but I usually don't experience the issues others do with reformulations.
    I agree with this kind of "ignorance is bliss" notion. In fact, in early 2008 I couldn't tell the differences either. However, if one day you can, and you've got a closet full of reformulations, you likely will be a bit unhappy!

  28. #28

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Tinkering with a formula changes a perfume so much that it it is no longer the same juice. You are being scammed by these companies. They should not be allowed to charge the money they do for the perfume when it is a completely different concoction. It's like listening to an Elvis impersonator sing "Heartbreak Hotel" and saying you heard it from the King himself. Unh uh. I'm not buying it and they shouldn't be selling it.
    I completely agree.

    It's even more of an insult when they continue projecting that pseudo-dignified 'art and substance are everything to us' BS.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Some are not very good, others are great. Some ruin scents, others improve upon them. I know the difference between the older materials in prior formulas and the newer IFRA materials, so no ignorance factor here. Re formulating has been a part of the perfume industry since it began, and I see nothing about it to lose sleep over. There are literally thousands of good perfumes out there. If one is in your mind ruined, why not just move on to another that is still good?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Have Reformulations ruined fragrances? : Dior Homme, Chergui, Timbuktu?

    Some fragrances are improved e.g. increasing performance.
    If the driving force behind the reformulation is not
    improvement but cost cutting and crippling restrictions,
    then it's far less likely to result in a better product.

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Tinkering with a formula changes a perfume so much that it it is no longer the same juice. You are being scammed by these companies.
    Yes it is amusing how trademarks and authenticity are so fiercely
    protected but essentially the reformulation is a counterfeit
    of the original: a lesser product that wears the same clothes,
    to elicit a sale.
    Last edited by Odeon; 27th July 2014 at 02:17 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. About Dior Homme Sport reformulations
    By ckampus in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 21st July 2014, 07:05 PM
  2. Different Dior Homme with chrome tube - reformulations or what?
    By basetones in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 13th August 2011, 04:31 PM
  3. Dior Homme reformulations?
    By Pipsta in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 11th April 2011, 04:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000