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  1. #1

    Default Communicating dark colors

    Another thing I'm finding difficult - making a scent that somehow communicates the color black, dark purple or indigo. I know it's individual (though it seems from papers I've found that there's some agreement on the colors associated with specific scents in a specific culture).
    For me vanilla is black, violet is dark purple.. And I have no ideas on dark blue..
    Would be greatful if you could share your experience and insight!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Where the reason for the connection is synesthesia -- sensory input from one sense being interpreted by the brain in terms of another sense -- don't think you'll be able to communicate colors reliably to others, as that is very individual.

    Where the reason is a connection connected by habit and experience, where a person thinks about color at all from a smell, there is the obvious of for example the fragrance "orange" suggesting the color orange, what we call green fragrances suggesting green, etc. For your vanilla example the reason might be a visual association on your part between the smell and color of vanilla beans, or vanilla extract, both of which are very dark. But for me, for example, it's a sunny fragrance suggestive of very light colors, I suppose very light yellow. Probably not as a synesthesia, but perhaps from association with smelling it while seeing light colored foods. Though to some extent, it could be from effect on mood. Don't know.

    Anyway, that would be an example of different perception between persons.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    I think there's some consistency across populations of the same culture..
    Anyhow, I'm looking for something that will work for me, and people's ideas might be helpful.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Could you share the papers, if they're available online? Sounds interesting.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Sure. I closed them, but will reload when I get home.. At least the nice looking ones.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Thank you!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    A recent one that's been in the news
    http://www.medicaldaily.com/smelling...re-pink-294002

    Original paper here:

    Cross-Cultural Color-Odor Associations

    Abstract

    Colors and odors are associated; for instance, people typically match the smell of strawberries to the color pink or red. These associations are forms of crossmodal correspondences. Recently, there has been discussion about the extent to which these correspondences arise for structural reasons (i.e., an inherent mapping between color and odor), statistical reasons (i.e., covariance in experience), and/or semantically-mediated reasons (i.e., stemming from language). The present study probed this question by testing color-odor correspondences in 6 different cultural groups (Dutch, Netherlands-residing-Chinese, German, Malay, Malaysian-Chinese, and US residents), using the same set of 14 odors and asking participants to make congruent and incongruent color choices for each odor. We found consistent patterns in color choices for each odor within each culture, showing that participants were making non-random color-odor matches. We used representational dissimilarity analysis to probe for variations in the patterns of color-odor associations across cultures; we found that US and German participants had the most similar patterns of associations, followed by German and Malay participants. The largest group differences were between Malay and Netherlands-resident Chinese participants and between Dutch and Malaysian-Chinese participants. We conclude that culture plays a role in color-odor crossmodal associations, which likely arise, at least in part, through experience.

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0101651
    @SomethingSmelly

  8. #8

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Thank you Irina!

    Looking at a figure from the study itself, my conclusion would be different. While the cultures may have differed from each statistically significantly in some way by some strained analysis of patterns, within each culture there was nothing like reliability of color communication from the scents provided:



    With regard to Nizal's question, strikingly only "soap" or "candy" ever evoked blue, and even then only as very much a minority perception.

    The paper avoids specifying the particular materials used to provide the scents, which would have been good information. (Sadly, many researchers deliberately avoid publishing sufficient information for their work to be replicated or invalidated, or built on to greater depth.)

  9. #9
    JDBIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    I have always thought of anise as dark blue.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    The paper avoids specifying the particular materials used to provide the scents, which would have been good information. (Sadly, many researchers deliberately avoid publishing sufficient information for their work to be replicated or invalidated, or built on to greater depth.)
    You're welcome

    I know the author(s) and the scents, I'll ask permission if I may share that with you

    The study is pretty sound statistically & methodologically imho but I may be biased...
    @SomethingSmelly

  11. #11

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    That paper was one of them.. Nice figures

  12. #12

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    You're welcome

    I know the author(s) and the scents, I'll ask permission if I may share that with you
    It was just a general comment. It's a general issue that I run into all the time. For example in this instance thorough detail is given to materials and methods that are of very little importance to replication, such as the exact model of cell phone used (HTC Desire Z, Android 2.2 (Froyo) with HTC Sense) or the exact software package used (Xperiment software package, version 0.0.12). But utterly key details that would be needed to replicate the work, are deliberately left out.

    In general, scientific papers are supposed to provide all information necessary for replication.

    Further it's desirable for a paper to provide the reader as much understanding as reasonably possible. For example, in this instance was the "fruity" scent that of a specific red fruit, or a specific yellow fruit, or some blend or what? That could be relevant to getting some insight into what was found. Likewise the flower scent might or might not have been of flowers physically having a given color. Might not a lavender scent, for example, give a different color impression than a marigold scent or a rose scent? Why choose not to publish the specific flower scent? Such a choice would not have been for the benefit of the reader's understanding.

    I cannot speak to these particular researchers but yes, in general when absolutely needed information for replication is omitted from a paper, this is deliberate and is not for the benefit of science or the reader. It was just an aside due to this practice being a constant issue in my own work, a frequent source of impediment, rather than my needing the aroma materials used. Sorry for the ramble and digression!
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 25th July 2014 at 07:44 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    I totally get it, Bill I need to deal with such things on a daily basis. Sometimes it's just not possible to publish every little details, jme as a scientist. That's why the information can always be asked/gathered from the authors. Ime it works fine and it's great networking

    You're right though, that why science communication is a whole different cake (aka degree)
    @SomethingSmelly

  14. #14
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Blue:

    Best I can do is this, Suggestions:

    Blue Chamomile
    Blue Eucalyptus

    And I seem to associate Blue to some extent with Beta Ionone. (Although, also to purple, but blue and purple sit next to each other on the spectrum...)

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  15. #15

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    There was also this one :

    http://psych.mcmaster.ca/maurerlab/P...tor_Scents.pdf

    Irina - I would still like to know what chemicals they were using for that study.. Do you happen to have access to those obscure journals that publish GCs? I wasn't able to access something where I work..

    Paul - I'm not sure about Blue Chamomile - the dry down is very yellow Chamomile tea for me. Maybe the top notes..

    There was one of those CK's which were unisex which smelled dark to me. Can't recall which one.

  16. #16

  17. #17

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    That one (http://psych.mcmaster.ca/maurerlab/P...tor_Scents.pdf) seems to support my intuition that learned associations might be fairly reliable for communication -- in their example, lemon scent being associated with the color yellow -- but unlearned ones not being perceived consistently among different persons.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    There was also this one :

    http://psych.mcmaster.ca/maurerlab/P...tor_Scents.pdf

    Irina - I would still like to know what chemicals they were using for that study.. Do you happen to have access to those obscure journals that publish GCs? I wasn't able to access something where I work..

    Paul - I'm not sure about Blue Chamomile - the dry down is very yellow Chamomile tea for me. Maybe the top notes..

    There was one of those CK's which were unisex which smelled dark to me. Can't recall which one.
    Nizan I'll ask and get back to you. As far as closed access publications go, I'm afraid I can't offer them openly & publicly for free... Most university libraries offer access for private citizens though for a small fee.
    @SomethingSmelly

  19. #19

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    I'm working at a research institute.. The problem is that we don't have access to that obscure
    journal, and the only friend of mine that does, has access to paper published from a later date.
    Pretty frustrating

    Paul - I'm a bit confused.. Are all Globulus species considered Blue Eucalyptus?
    Last edited by Nizan; 25th July 2014 at 08:10 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by JDBIII View Post
    I have always thought of anise as dark blue.
    Seems like it's usually associated with the colder colors. As are the cherry-type scents.
    My only problem is that Star Anise EO lacks this association for me. It's less deep and sweet
    than the stars themselves.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    If you want to replicate a study you have to contact the authors. There is almost always a much, much more detailed version of the published paper, as journals often just want easily readable summaries, or an article about one aspect of the parent study(ies); and have no interest in publishing the whole study anyway. So it's not always deliberate withholding of information by researchers.

    I love the topic of synaesthesia. For me ambrettolide is a bright avocado green, maybe with a splash of yellow like in an avocado, but I don't usually work backwards from the colors. That is interesting, but I have to think more about it. Nature provides some of those associations for us, as well as culture.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 25th July 2014 at 10:02 PM.

  22. #22
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    Most university libraries offer access for private citizens though for a small fee.
    My Local University of California Riverside, I just go into the
    library, and grab a computer and start locating files to download onto my USB Flash drive, no muss no fuss, no money...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  23. #23
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I'm a bit confused.. Are all Globulus species considered Blue Eucalyptus?
    The Blue Chamomile the Blue Eucalyptus simply have "blue" in their name, but here's thescoop on the Blue Euc.

    EUCALYPTUS BLUE MALLEE AUSTRALIA
    EUCALYPTUS POLYBRACTEA
    http://www.libertynatural.com/bulk/362.htm

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/es1062131.html



    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  24. #24

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Spirambrene smells literally like a clear moonlit night. It smells like a mystical dark blue.

  25. #25
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    Spirambrene
    Don't know this one, do you have more than a sample?

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  26. #26

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    If you want to replicate a study you have to contact the authors. There is almost always a much, much more detailed version of the published paper, as journals often just want easily readable summaries, or an article about one aspect of the parent study(ies); and have no interest in publishing the whole study anyway. So it's not always deliberate withholding of information by researchers.
    Nizan, here is your answer

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    My Local University of California Riverside, I just go into the
    library, and grab a computer and start locating files to download onto my USB Flash drive, no muss no fuss, no money...

    PK
    Lucky you, Paul! In the Netherlands we have to pay for everything. As a private citizen you are not even allowed to a digital copy, just a print (for an extra fee). Even if you work for the university, you need to pay for articles from a journal that they're not subscribed too...
    So I guess it depends on the country?

    I prefer to always contact the authors, aside from being enlightening, it's a lot of fun.

    As for the color dark blue I associate smokey incense and blackcurrant odors with it.
    @SomethingSmelly

  27. #27

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    My scent associations are more about textures than colours. Dark blue is a velvety texture to me, not glossy or shiny. I'd say violet leaf absolute.
    You are the sky. Everything else is just the weather.
    –Pema Chödrön


    liaison carbone
    RAW MATERIALS FOR PERFUMERY

  28. #28

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    By smokey incense you mean Myrrh and some smokey phenols? It's always confusing when people say incense, because they could mean a lot of things. In those papers I've posted it seems like minty scents were associated with torquise.. Maybe if I find a phenolic spearmint molecule..

  29. #29

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    I would associate iris with a dark purply blue and obviously violets for that colour.

    @Nizan. Thank you very much for starting this thread. I am doing a project for our local school using scent and colour for very autistic children and this research has lots of exactly what I need in it. You have saved me hours and hours of work that I had only just begun. What fate and good chance.
    Currently wearing: Beautiful by Estée Lauder

  30. #30

    Default Re: Communicating dark colors

    Oh its quite beautiful stuff Paul. It is what gives Kenzo Pour Homme its slight mysticism and is a building block for that magnificent wood accord in the drydown. Yes I only have a sample. I do not think you will have any trouble receiving a sample from Vigon. It is sparkling (Woody-Amber as in the case of a toned down Ambrocenide) yet effortlessly silky smooth. Words cannot accurately describe what you feel when you smell Spirambrene, but a dense dark blue mystical aura and crystal clear moonlit night do the job well. Its the only chemical I have experienced thus far to paint such a beautiful and vivid picture in my head. Anyway just try it .

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