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  1. #1

    Default Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I just quickly counted about 10 threads on my first page display of 50 threads that relate to designer scents, and some of them are pretty old scents - not current fare really.

    i travelled around Europe last year, as well as going to Singapore and Dubai, and walked into lots of fragrance stores. For the most part, in the majority of fragrance stores, be they in Brussels, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, Bologna or my "home town" of Bassano Del Grappa, the scents are about 85% the same as what is sold down here in Australia, and in the duty frees at airports along the way, and in Singapore and Dubai.

    Those designer scents occupy a lot of shelf space in expensive locations - they have to be selling well, or the shops would go bust. Plainly lots of males (or their wives) are buying them.

    Yet in terms of discussion here, if I said that it was relatively minuscule in relation to the biggest selling scents in the world, I think I'd be overstating the situation.

    If I was someone who quite liked fragrances that are sold in stores worldwide, and who wanted some guidance, I suspect I'd be a bit perplexed if I came to this forum. As for me right now, I can't comment on around two thirds or more of the threads, mainly because I don't know the scents being discussed and am unlikely to ever come across most of them.

    Any thoughts?
    Cheers,
    Renato

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    As for European cities you cited above perhaps it's true, a lot of what is talked about here (niche) I imagine often is hard to find in stores there, but not true for Paris and other areas of France which I know well and which offer a lot of diversity and availability of the lesser known fragrances or ones talked about here. Also, in the States if you live in or in proximity to large cities like NYC, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco, Chicago etc. one would I guess feel less perplexed when reading on Basenotes about certain scents as there is better availability of niche as in other more remote areas. Just my thought.
    Last edited by hednic; 30th July 2014 at 06:04 AM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    You obviously live in a large city (Melbourne) so the high end stores there a bound to stock a fairly large range of niche fragrances. Niche fragrances are sold worldwide, just in higher end stores that's all. Not really that hard to find for the most part.
    Top 5 current fragrances:

    1. Creed Cedre Blanc
    2. Tom Ford Costa Azzurra
    3. Bond no 9 Montauk
    4. Creed Green Irish Tweed
    5. Tom Ford Neroli Portofino

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Those designer scents occupy a lot of shelf space in expensive locations - they have to be selling well, or the shops would go bust. Plainly lots of males (or their wives) are buying them.

    Yet in terms of discussion here, if I said that it was relatively minuscule in relation to the biggest selling scents in the world, I think I'd be overstating the situation.

    If I was someone who quite liked fragrances that are sold in stores worldwide, and who wanted some guidance, I suspect I'd be a bit perplexed if I came to this forum. As for me right now, I can't comment on around two thirds or more of the threads, mainly because I don't know the scents being discussed and am unlikely to ever come across most of them.

    Any thoughts?
    Cheers,
    Renato
    What hednic said about the "larger cities" having availability to products that the smaller cities and more rural areas do not have is SPOT ON! That's VERY important to consider and keep in mind when people suggest various items.

    Also....I honestly think that another reason why this might be the case, is because there are many in the online fragrance forum community who like to "publicly display knowledge". It's kind of a power type thing. By naming ones that are little/ hardly ever/ never discussed as opposed to mentioning ones that are known by the "lesser informed (when it comes to fragrances)...it puts them in a more "informed" category and thus a position of being perceived as more knowledgeable. And with knowledge comes power. Also, people will therefore "respect" the Basenotes member that seems to "know more" than the others (and by mentioning rather obscure items as opposed to the more popular ones, they are achieving a bit of a "rep" as a more highly respected member of the forum)

    So, with an increase in forum approval by mentioning the lesser known scents, there is no benefit to mentioning the ones that already sell well, and that are already known, and that are already universally appealing to a wider audience.

    I'm sure there are several members who truly have the best intentions and who really want to help by mentioning "new and unknown" or "hidden gem" type fragrances....but a lot of times the ones mentioned come with a hefty price tag, which could suggest a bit of an affluent snobbishness on behalf of the one doing the suggesting as well. After all, not everyone wants to sink hundreds of dollars in to one bottle of a particular fragrance. Personally, I'm more impressed when relatively unknown fragrances with an inexpensive price tag are mentioned as opposed to the high dollar ones.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I think a big problem is that the number of new designer frags launched each year has gone through the roof, all competing for store shelf space, but the number of well made ones has stayed pretty static. So as a proportion, the designer hidden gems have actually reduced and become even more hidden, and existing greats are getting pushed off the shelves by the new stuff (which are the only ones that also come with additional marketing material that the stores can use to make a promotional display). For example, it is next to impossible to buy Burberry London in a store in my town now, it used to be everywhere and where I live is not exactly small.


    It's no wonder a lot of people on BN have given up even talking about designer frags.
    Last edited by andym72; 30th July 2014 at 07:32 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I don't think that chasing down interesting new releases generally has anything at all to do with 'affluent snobbishness' , 'power' & stuff like that - it's more likely just passionate people wanting to share a new discovery imo.

    There's nothing much sold anywhere near me anyway, so my purchases are 99% made via the internet, whichever part of the market is under consideration.

    From reading the various sections here, people do share new low cost discoveries as well as the more expensive ones - Lomani being a recent example.

    I hope that I never stop exploring
    Last edited by lpp; 30th July 2014 at 09:30 AM.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    As for European cities you cited above perhaps it's true, a lot of what is talked about here (niche) I imagine often is hard to find in stores there, but not true for Paris and other areas of France which I know well and which offer a lot of diversity and availability of the lesser known fragrances or ones talked about here. Also, in the States if you live in or in proximity to large cities like NYC, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco, Chicago etc. one would I guess feel less perplexed when reading on Basenotes about certain scents as there is better availability of niche as in other more remote areas. Just my thought.
    True, but that's not really what i was mainly going on about. i can think of several score designer scent threads I've started here over the years, where I got zero responses - until you came along, and then I got one response.

    Despite the niche shops in Paris, I'm pretty sure judging by location and shop size, that most Parisian males would be wearing stuff they bought at Sephora. Same in Berlin where there seems to be a Douglas store every 500m walking along that main street which starts with a K but I can't pronounce.
    Regards,
    Renato

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by rollzst View Post
    You obviously live in a large city (Melbourne) so the high end stores there a bound to stock a fairly large range of niche fragrances. Niche fragrances are sold worldwide, just in higher end stores that's all. Not really that hard to find for the most part.
    Niche stores go bust pretty quickly in Melbourne. There is a niche store in the Italian home town which has more niche scents in it than I've ever found in all of Melbourne when we did have lots of niche stores, and more niche scents than in any other European niche shop I've ever walked into.

    But that's a bit of a digression I started, where my main point was lack of discussion about what most guys actually wear.
    Regards,
    Renato

  9. #9

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan View Post

    Also....I honestly think that another reason why this might be the case, is because there are many in the online fragrance forum community who like to "publicly display knowledge". It's kind of a power type thing. By naming ones that are little/ hardly ever/ never discussed as opposed to mentioning ones that are known by the "lesser informed (when it comes to fragrances)...it puts them in a more "informed" category and thus a position of being perceived as more knowledgeable. And with knowledge comes power. Also, people will therefore "respect" the Basenotes member that seems to "know more" than the others (and by mentioning rather obscure items as opposed to the more popular ones, they are achieving a bit of a "rep" as a more highly respected member of the forum)
    Very true. But once we used to have experts in designer scents displaying their very useful advanced knowledge of those scents, in the same way that people with niche expertise do know.

    Most seem to have disappeared from here.
    Regards,
    Renato

  10. #10

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    If certain scents are in a lot of shops one can simply try them out. Many people post here because they want an opinion about a scent that is not available locally. Isn't that fairly obvious?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by andym72 View Post
    I think a big problem is that the number of new designer frags launched each year has gone through the roof, all competing for store shelf space, but the number of well made ones has stayed pretty static. So as a proportion, the designer hidden gems have actually reduced and become even more hidden, and existing greats are getting pushed off the shelves by the new stuff (which are the only ones that also come with additional marketing material that the stores can use to make a promotional display). For example, it is next to impossible to buy Burberry London in a store in my town now, it used to be everywhere and where I live is not exactly small.


    It's no wonder a lot of people on BN have given up even talking about designer frags.
    Yes there is a large turnover - I know because when scents don't do well in Europe, they all wind up down here in Australia heavily discounted. In Europe last year, half the stores I walked into were offering me samples/sprays of Guess Seductive Homme which they were selling for 60 or 70 Euros. I got back to Australia six week later, and Seductive Homme was going for a measly $29.

    But does a scent have to be a "gem" to warrant discussion here, or to warrant not being studiously ignored should it be raised?

    To my mind, with thousands of shops selling a similar range of scents around the world in huge quantities to males - they ought merit some discussion. If one peruses the threads here, one would hardly know most exist.
    Regards,
    Renato

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    If certain scents are in a lot of shops one can simply try them out. Many people post here because they want an opinion about a scent that is not available locally. Isn't that fairly obvious?
    So it's a forum for the discussion of men's fragrances, and fragrances worn by men - that rarely, if ever, mentions the vast majority of scents actually sold to men?
    Cheers,
    Renato

  13. #13

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I don't think that chasing down interesting new releases generally has anything at all to do with 'affluent snobbishness' , 'power' & stuff like that - it's more likely just passionate people wanting to share a new discovery imo.

    There's nothing much sold anywhere near me anyway, so my purchases are 99% made via the internet, whichever part of the market is under consideration.

    From reading the various sections here, people do share new low cost discoveries as well as the more expensive ones - Lomani being a recent example.

    I hope that I never stop exploring
    So was Ab Silver, which I bought - but didn't smell much like SMW to me.

    I guess my thought is that the way interests are expressed around here, most aren't exploring what is in the major stores - though there always exceptions - Midnight In Paris, being an example.
    Regards,
    Renato

  14. #14

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    But does a scent have to be a "gem" to warrant discussion here, or to warrant not being studiously ignored should it be raised?

    No, not necessarily, even if it's just for the BNers with experience to explain why they don't like something and to suggest alternatives.

    For instance, Armani Code is a big seller. I don't like the wood note in it, it irritates my nose. I'd recommend La Nuit L'Homme Parfum, AHS Eau Extreme, or Code Ultimate as alternatives.

  15. #15
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    Default Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    But does a scent have to be a "gem" to warrant discussion here, or to warrant not being studiously ignored should it be raised?

    To my mind, with thousands of shops selling a similar range of scents around the world in huge quantities to males - they ought merit some discussion. If one peruses the threads here, one would hardly know most exist.
    Regards,
    Renato
    True, and we will observe this same effect in other enthusiast hobbies. Take automobiles.

    Is more discussion going to be engendered by the latest (or even classic) Maserati, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. Or instead by the latest Ford, Hyundai or Toyota?

    More often than not, the more exciting option will, regardless of whether it's more practical or not. Irrespective of the fact that more of us can't easily or conveniently acquire or use the more exciting option.

    I think this effect is expected.
    Last edited by JourneymanDave; 30th July 2014 at 11:04 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by andym72 View Post
    I think a big problem is that the number of new designer frags launched each year has gone through the roof, all competing for store shelf space, but the number of well made ones has stayed pretty static. So as a proportion, the designer hidden gems have actually reduced and become even more hidden, and existing greats are getting pushed off the shelves by the new stuff (which are the only ones that also come with additional marketing material that the stores can use to make a promotional display). For example, it is next to impossible to buy Burberry London in a store in my town now, it used to be everywhere and where I live is not exactly small.


    It's no wonder a lot of people on BN have given up even talking about designer frags.
    Can't find a Burberry London in London! I'd assume the Burberry store opposite harrods sell them but it would probably be full price.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    On Fragrantica almost all discussion revolves around designer scents. Quite a different demographic there. They have the opposite problem - mention niche stuff and mot people never heard of it or tried it.

    While there are some "high end" stores available to me, I generally explore the world of niche (and designer) without leaving my home - I purchase dozens of samples every month from various sites and have them delivered to me. IMO, that's the only way to properly evaluate a scent anyway. If you don't live where any of those sites will deliver to, that is unfortunate. As for discussion, my collection leans slightly toward niche, but I do have quite a bit of designer stuff that I love and always enjoy writing/reading about.
    Seasonal favorites:

    1. Creed - Spice & Wood
    2. Creed - Aventus
    3. Dior - Vetiver
    4.
    by Kilian - Straight to Heaven
    5. by Kilian - Cruel Intentions
    6. Puredistance - Black
    7. Tom Ford - Plum Japonais
    8. Neela Vermeire - Trayee
    9. Creed - Royal Oud
    10. Chanel - Egoiste

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    The interesting challenge/situation would be to find a fragrance store located in a larger city that sells significant proportion of niche or at least designer exclusives/vintage/limited edition/discontinued/otherwise very artisan and uncommon fragrances and, apart from not going broke, also enjoys a certain popularity outside BN.

    Traveled too little so far to know whether such fragrance store actually exists, but if it does, would be among the first to visit and to more or less regularly purchase there.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    How much (more) is it worth discussing, for instance, Invictus by Paco Rabanne? It's sweet, fresh and inoffensive. It's so resolutely middle-of-the-road that the only thing you can think of saying is "I suppose it's fine". And many of the designer launches are just like Invictus. If the juice doesn't have any interesting facets, what are we going to discuss? I think members are good at sifting through the launches and generating threads about the most interesting of them.
    Last edited by furrypine; 30th July 2014 at 01:53 PM.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Plus, people can always check out the reviews for a variety of opinions on most fragrances.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I personally have quite a few Holes I can burrow for all kinds of scent and then there's the amazing WWW so no issue for me and you can always get samples from Decantshoppe ,TPC etc if you can't find them @your local Brick&mortar...
    "Thank GOD for the nose, for without it we would not be enjoying these beautiful created Scents" also Remember "Balance is everything and the key to appreciating "

  22. #22

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I'm on some coffee forums, and there's little talk about some kinds of coffee that the general populace drinks, and so similarly, a regular person wandering in wouldn't find much discussion of the coffee he often drinks. For example, enthusiasts don't talk much about Starbucks, mostly because we all think it's objectively and subjectively just plain bad coffee -- badly roasted, badly brewed. There's an element of snobbery too, of course, but someone with a demanding educated palate isn't going to sit around talking about Starbucks, just like people won't sit around here talking about Gucci Guilty or whatever.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by JourneymanDave View Post
    True, and we will observe this same effect in other enthusiast hobbies. Take automobiles.

    Is more discussion going to be engendered by the latest (or even classic) Maserati, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. Or instead by the latest Ford, Hyundai or Toyota?

    More often than not, the more exciting option will, regardless of whether it's more practical or not. Irrespective of the fact that more of us can't easily or conveniently acquire or use the more exciting option.

    I think this effect is expected.
    Not necessarily.

    I belong to an astronomy forum , and yes people enthusiastically discuss their $800 Televue eyepieces, and $10,000 Takahashi telescopes, but they'll also happily discuss $29 plossl eyepieces and $600 dobsonian telescopes, and everything in-between.

    Same story at the Dpreview Sony forum, people enthusiastically discussing their $2000 A99 and latest $4000 lens, and also discussing the cheap A58 camera and $100 lenses, and everything in-between.

    At those forums, I never see anyone say Televue eyepieces are best and everything else is crap, or Sony Zeiss lenses are best, bin your Tamron lenses.
    Regards,
    Renato

  24. #24

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by andym72 View Post
    No, not necessarily, even if it's just for the BNers with experience to explain why they don't like something and to suggest alternatives.

    For instance, Armani Code is a big seller. I don't like the wood note in it, it irritates my nose. I'd recommend La Nuit L'Homme Parfum, AHS Eau Extreme, or Code Ultimate as alternatives.
    Thanks, I agree in part, but what you then write sort of amplifies what I am trying to get at.
    What sort of discussion is it if a scent is accepted as something most people like, but it is then deemed flawed in some way, and "better" scents are suggested? (Not that I'm a fan of Armani Code).

    Regards,
    Renato

  25. #25

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    On Fragrantica almost all discussion revolves around designer scents. Quite a different demographic there. They have the opposite problem - mention niche stuff and mot people never heard of it or tried it.

    While there are some "high end" stores available to me, I generally explore the world of niche (and designer) without leaving my home - I purchase dozens of samples every month from various sites and have them delivered to me. IMO, that's the only way to properly evaluate a scent anyway. If you don't live where any of those sites will deliver to, that is unfortunate. As for discussion, my collection leans slightly toward niche, but I do have quite a bit of designer stuff that I love and always enjoy writing/reading about.
    Yes, when I want to read user reviews of scents nowadays, I head straight for Fragrantica. Their reviews remind me of the Basenotes reviews that were around the first five years after I joined.

    I haven't clicked on many of the obscure scent threads i see here, so i haven't seen you contributions on niche, but I often see you making good points on the few designer threads I click on.
    Regards,
    Renato

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I don't really agree. I see people suggest a bunch of designer stuff, and quite frequently. Dior / Chanel / Mugler / Tom ford / HM / Hermes...and the list goes on.

    I also don't see an issue with talking about niche stuff, or suggesting it. If one doesn't have access to this stuff, and isn't in close proximity to stores that sell it, where else are they going to be exposed to it? I know coming here has definitely opened my eyes to the joys of higher end fragrances. It's like Christmas now, every time I receive a box of samples .

  27. #27

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Russell View Post
    The interesting challenge/situation would be to find a fragrance store located in a larger city that sells significant proportion of niche or at least designer exclusives/vintage/limited edition/discontinued/otherwise very artisan and uncommon fragrances and, apart from not going broke, also enjoys a certain popularity outside BN.

    Traveled too little so far to know whether such fragrance store actually exists, but if it does, would be among the first to visit and to more or less regularly purchase there.
    Well, if you ever travel to Bassano del Grappa in Italy, go to Profumeria Lunardon. The closest thing to designer scents it stocks is Annick Goutal and Creed. Everything else is niche stuff I see mentioned here. It has been going for decades, despite there being four or five regular perfume shops a short walk away from it. Strangely, when I went there last year, a Douglas shop had opened right across the lane from it.
    Regards,
    Renato

  28. #28

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by furrypine View Post
    How much (more) is it worth discussing, for instance, Invictus by Paco Rabanne? It's sweet, fresh and inoffensive. It's so resolutely middle-of-the-road that the only thing you can think of saying is "I suppose it's fine". And many of the designer launches are just like Invictus. If the juice doesn't have any interesting facets, what are we going to discuss? I think members are good at sifting through the launches and generating threads about the most interesting of them.
    You aren't that fond of Invictus - neither am I. Though I might pick a bottle up when it drops to $25.

    But I am fond of my 18Euro bottle of Roccobarocco Fashion Man which I am wearing today, it reminds me of Tobacco Vanille (similar vanilla effect, but my wife doesn't complain about it). I started a thread about it here with near zilch response.
    Regards,
    Renato

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I like the tone of these forums specifically because of the niche discussions. I live in a smaller city so my access to more exclusive fragrances is quite limited. I do still appreciate the discussions on an outstanding designer fragrance but I come here to broaden my horizons and that usually tends to lean to fragrances that aren't readily available to me.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Plus, people can always check out the reviews for a variety of opinions on most fragrances.
    Problem with the reviews is that unless you know the reviewers, you often don't know whether they are reviewing a scent from the perspective of art/artisinal qualities or from the perspective of usefulness/agreeability with others.
    Regards,
    Renato

  31. #31

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Uvalde View Post
    I'm on some coffee forums, and there's little talk about some kinds of coffee that the general populace drinks, and so similarly, a regular person wandering in wouldn't find much discussion of the coffee he often drinks. For example, enthusiasts don't talk much about Starbucks, mostly because we all think it's objectively and subjectively just plain bad coffee -- badly roasted, badly brewed. There's an element of snobbery too, of course, but someone with a demanding educated palate isn't going to sit around talking about Starbucks, just like people won't sit around here talking about Gucci Guilty or whatever.
    Well Starbucks had to clear out of Australia, as their coffee was so poor.

    But what you say about no one is going to sit around discussing Gucci Guilty is pertinent.

    When Gucci Envy, Rush, PH and PH11 were new, they were discussed here - at great length.
    Regards,
    Renato

  32. #32

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by sdotlow View Post
    I don't really agree. I see people suggest a bunch of designer stuff, and quite frequently. Dior / Chanel / Mugler / Tom ford / HM / Hermes...and the list goes on.

    I also don't see an issue with talking about niche stuff, or suggesting it. If one doesn't have access to this stuff, and isn't in close proximity to stores that sell it, where else are they going to be exposed to it? I know coming here has definitely opened my eyes to the joys of higher end fragrances. It's like Christmas now, every time I receive a box of samples .
    I said discussion here about the biggest selling scents in the world was relatively minuscule - I didn't say non existent.

    I'm not worried about not being able to test new niche scents, as I have a whole big drawer full of niche scents that I rarely wear - I don't need another.
    Regards,
    Renato

  33. #33

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by chili_willi View Post
    I like the tone of these forums specifically because of the niche discussions. I live in a smaller city so my access to more exclusive fragrances is quite limited. I do still appreciate the discussions on an outstanding designer fragrance but I come here to broaden my horizons and that usually tends to lean to fragrances that aren't readily available to me.
    Yes, these forums are a very nice place for discussions.

    But would it hurt to have discussion about both the high end scents that few wear and the designer scents that are the biggest sellers?
    Regards,
    Renato
    Last edited by Renato; 30th July 2014 at 03:01 PM.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    OP made an interesting observation. It is clear Basenotes has become a community of fragrance aficionados more than it is for the casual fragrance wearers. Just look at the review section - you'd hardly see the sort of consumer reviews you see on Fragrantica or MakeupAlley. Even the shorter ones or those for designer fragrances are written by members with considerable experience and exposure, or those with BNPlus membership. It is by design that non-paying members don't get their reviews posted automatically though they can still kickstart a discussion in the forums.

    I do agree the discussion forum seems skewed towards niche fragrances. That's only because niche fragrance fans made the effort to start a discussion. Nothing is stopping anyone from starting a discussion on designer fragrances. But there are few takers. I remember the occasional threads on stuff like D&G The One, Lanvin Avant Garde, DSquared Rocky Mountain Wood, Bottega Veneta, etc. But if you're gonna start one on an obscure fragrance like Roccobarocco Fashion Man, don't expect an overwhelming respond as the majority would not have heard of it and even fewer have tried it.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Problem with the reviews is that unless you know the reviewers, you often don't know whether they are reviewing a scent from the perspective of art/artisinal qualities or from the perspective of usefulness/agreeability with others.
    Regards,
    Renato
    This is true, and in some cases you can't even tell whether or not they are sober and trying to be serious (LOL). BUT...usually, (and thankfully) you CAN pretty much tell, for the most part, who is trying to be helpful and who is simply using the internet for their own fun and games and trying to be humorous. At the very least, you can get an idea as to who is relaying serious thoughts and opinions designed to help others, as opposed to some who may just be blasting a scent and being vocal about it "because they can".

    And if one wants to go to the trouble, if they read a review from someone who sounds like he/she is seriously trying to help and offering detailed thoughts, you can always read their other reviews and look at their wardrobe to see if their tastes generally match up with your's. Like I said, it's a bit of trouble, work and can be time consuming....but in the case of thinking about making a blind buy and spending money, it could well be worth it.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post

    I do agree the discussion forum seems skewed towards niche fragrances. That's only because niche fragrance fans made the effort to start a discussion. Nothing is stopping anyone from starting a discussion on designer fragrances. But there are few takers. I remember the occasional threads on stuff like D&G The One, Lanvin Avant Garde, DSquared Rocky Mountain Wood, Bottega Veneta, etc. But if you're gonna start one on an obscure fragrance like Roccobarocco Fashion Man, don't expect an overwhelming respond as the majority would not have heard of it and even fewer have tried it.
    Obscurity is a relative matter. Is Roccobarocco Fashion Man harder to find on the internet and stores than most of the niche "gems"? I doubt it.

    I also think designer scent discussion gets dampened with comments along the lines of not wasting money on four or five bottles of such stuff, but to instead save for the quality stuff.

    Anyhow, 12 hours have elapsed, and the delightful Fashion Man is still wafting around me.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  37. #37

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    If I was someone who quite liked fragrances that are sold in stores worldwide, and who wanted some guidance, I suspect I'd be a bit perplexed if I came to this forum. As for me right now, I can't comment on around two thirds or more of the threads, mainly because I don't know the scents being discussed and am unlikely to ever come across most of them.
    I agree 100% with pretty much everything you said, but I don't view any of it as a criticism of this forum. It is simply proof of the disconnect between the masses and connoisseurs. That disconnect, the difference between the masses and connoisseurs, exists regardless of whether the topic is perfume, photography gear, hifi equipment, literature, film, music, art, coffee or even candy.

    Think about photography. Do you know anybody who shoots pinhole? Lots of people do, but they're like our version of people who wear Amouage. The average person has never heard of Amouage. The average person has never seen someone shoot with a pinhole camera made out of something like a cigar box, an old book or even a hollowed-out gourd. That sounds silly, but I've known people who make ultra-low-tech pinhole cameras out of wacky objects for the fun of it and then go out to shoot photos with them. I howled with laughter when I saw someone mount a pinhole camera made out of a hollowed out melon to a $400 tripod.

    There is almost always a disconnect between the masses and the connoisseurs. I wanted to cook an impressive dinner for a date, so I went to a foodie forum and asked for advice. Hooooooweeeee did they send me in the wrong direction, recommending ingredients I'd never heard of and complex dishes I'd have no hope of ever making that would have been beyond the palate of the woman I was hoping to impress. Eff it. I trusted my gut and came up with a recipe on my own... and it turned out to be fantastic. If someone wants to find perfume that will thrill them, this forum can be a great place to learn, but if someone wants "cologne" for a date, they're probably better off looking elsewhere. And that's not a bad thing. Again, it's just a reflection of the difference between connoisseur tastes and what the masses like.

    It's important to note that the root of this difference is not snobbery. Most people just prefer what they know. It's usually only the connoisseurs who are passionate enough to want to explore beyond the norm - and, again, that's true for perfume, photography, music, art, literature, etc etc etc... it's even true for food and drinks.

    Niche scents are rare in everyday life unless one works in or hangs out with people who are into high end fashion. The word Niche implies this. Niche means a small specialized segment of an overall market. I live in a city of around 600,000 people in a metro area of around 2 million. I can only think of one store that sells Bond, and another that sells Creed. And the store that sells Creed is a specialty shop called The Perfume House. Dudes aren't shopping at a place called The Perfume House. Most men don't even know their bottle of AdG or Bleu is perfume. They think it's cologne. Obviously, anyone can buy Creed online, but the average person isn't going to buy something he's never even heard of.

    I've never had a male friend or acquaintance who is even familiar with the name Creed, let alone one of their fragrances. And Creed is probably one of the most common niche houses. I'd never heard of Creed until I found basenotes.

    To the average guy, Macy's sells popular cologne, Nordstrom sells the high end stuff, and Sephora is for women. The idea that there was an entire world of fragrances beyond the mall was an eye opener for me when I first found basenotes. And though my heart may have found itself among the niche fragrances, my tastes are still grounded in my upbringing. I was a child of the mall. Perhaps that is why my most worn scents tend to be what the forum would call people pleasers, which I happen to enjoy as well. Hanae Mori HM, TdH Parfum, Varvatos Vintage, Aventus, MI, GphII, Tom Ford For Men, etc. These aren't as common as L'homme, Bleu or AdG, but they have mass appeal. I've learned to save stuff like Royal Oud, Interlude Man, LDDM and Cannabis Santal for when I'm either wearing something strictly for my own pleasure or when I've gotten to know someone's taste well enough that it'll appeal to her too.

    Basenotes - especially the Male Fragrances Discussion forum - is a place that heavily favors the connoisseurs. And that's fine. It's great, actually. Fragrantica's club forums tend to favor the mall crowd, and that's fine too. That's the beauty of the internet. There's a place for everybody - and when there isn't, somebody will eventually come along and create one.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Very well said, L'Homme Blanc Individuel!

    +1

  39. #39

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    So it's a forum for the discussion of men's fragrances, and fragrances worn by men - that rarely, if ever, mentions the vast majority of scents actually sold to men?
    Cheers,
    Renato
    You would have to do a study to determine how frequently certain scents are mentioned before I would agree with your assumption. For example, the recent thread about Bleu de Chanel was very popular, unlike many posts that ask about a rare scent and get few if any responses. My point is that the "rare" posts will be disproportionate (more than appears "normal") because there are a lot more aficionados, vintage hunters, etc. who read BN than there are people (in this case, presumably men) who go to any randomly chosen brick & mortar store, even if the number of visitors is the same. What I don't understand with posts like yours is that it's almost like you think there should be a limit to the number of posts on BN. Why not "the more the merrier?" Why is it that you see things in terms of "us versus them" or "good versus bad?"

  40. #40
    Dependent bigbz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Great post L'Homme Blanc Individuel, so many good points! Reminds me of the posts I see sometimes when a 16yr old guy comes on here and asks for advice on what scent to wear to prom....and I immediately think, "Oh no, no, NO!...this is not the place to come and ask that question young grasshopper!!!"lol And from your description, it looks like I should stop being a lurker and join Fragrantica's group...since designer stuff is more of what I buy and am into.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Looking at the first current MFD Forum page, it actually looks pretty mainstream to me.
    The more obscure ones tend to end up being discussed in General in my experience.
    Directory contribution link:-
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

  42. #42

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    In my experience, a lot of people I've talked to in passing about perfume are absolutely dumbfounded at the prices of luxury/niche perfumes and not only wouldn't pay the price but wouldn't put in the extra time and effort needed to explore these scents.
    Most people are content with the mainstream.

    Basenotes is a forum for enthusiasts for perfume. When I smoked cigars, I used to go to the ends of the earth for limited edition and rare cigars costing well over $100 for 1 cigar. Meanwhile most cigar smokers are happy with a $3 Fuente.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbz View Post
    Great post L'Homme Blanc Individuel, so many good points! Reminds me of the posts I see sometimes when a 16yr old guy comes on here and asks for advice on what scent to wear to prom....and I immediately think, "Oh no, no, NO!...this is not the place to come and ask that question young grasshopper!!!"lol And from your description, it looks like I should stop being a lurker and join Fragrantica's group...since designer stuff is more of what I buy and am into.
    I think this is a more valid criticism, and I posted a few times on such threads, making the same point, but after a while I decided that this is just going to happen, over and over again. I wonder how many 17 years olds have worn Norne to their proms over the last several years (after getting BN advice)! LOL.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I think that more 17 year olds have probably had Creed suggested as a suitable purchase but it's often just because people sometimes don't read the O.P. properly.
    Directory contribution link:-
    http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

  45. #45

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I think that more 17 year olds have probably had Creed suggested as a suitable purchase but it's often just because people sometimes don't read the O.P. properly.
    This is so true.

    I think a lot of people on the internet are extremely quick to "offer advise" or "give opinions" without properly ASKING for more relevant info. Like, what price range are you wanting to stay within? What age range are you in, and who (if anybody) are you wanting to impress/is it for yourself? Are you wanting something you can buy at a local brick and mortar retailer, or how comfortable are you with ordering online? Those type of questions. They'll just see somebody ask "I'm looking for a new scent, what should I get?" and immediately chime in with "Aventus", not realizing that it is a 17 year old with limited funds who knows nothing about fragrances that is doing the asking.

  46. #46
    Dependent bigbz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I think this is a more valid criticism, and I posted a few times on such threads, making the same point, but after a while I decided that this is just going to happen, over and over again. I wonder how many 17 years olds have worn Norne to their proms over the last several years (after getting BN advice)! LOL.
    LMAO! I know right? I can only imagine the poor teenagers who pony up big bucks and hours scouring the internet to get the "holy grail" of scents offered up by the most experienced and discriminating Basenotes noses....only to have the bottle show up and dying of anticipation they excitingly open it up and spray it for the "big night"! Only to be like "WTF!!! What IS this?! It smells like @$$, what a bunch of dicks!"

  47. #47

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by aphexacid View Post

    Basenotes is a forum for enthusiasts for perfume. When I smoked cigars, I used to go to the ends of the earth for limited edition and rare cigars costing well over $100 for 1 cigar. Meanwhile most cigar smokers are happy with a $3 Fuente.
    Well, that's pretty much the crux of my point.

    Both you and others in this thread say that , either implicitly or explicitly.

    In designer scent threads, it shows through either explicitly or inferred.

    When did designer scents in general, and the biggest selling ones in the world specifically, become the province of the "mall crowd" over at Fragrantica?

    Basenotes used to be a lot more inclusive, in my opinion.

    Mind you, I still think it's better now than when it went through the strange phase - explicitly espoused by some at the time - that women's scents wear vastly superior to men's scents and that you were wearing lower quality junk when wearing scents marketed to men. And every third thread was about the joy of wearing women's scents.
    Regards,
    Renato

  48. #48

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Well, that's pretty much the crux of my point.

    Both you and others in this thread say that , either implicitly or explicitly.

    In designer scent threads, it shows through either explicitly or inferred.

    When did designer scents in general, and the biggest selling ones in the world specifically, become the province of the "mall crowd" over at Fragrantica?

    Basenotes used to be a lot more inclusive, in my opinion.

    Mind you, I still think it's better now than when it went through the strange phase - explicitly espoused by some at the time - that women's scents wear vastly superior to men's scents and that you were wearing lower quality junk when wearing scents marketed to men. And every third thread was about the joy of wearing women's scents.
    Regards,
    Renato
    I don't see the "exclusivity" that you do, but instead, some scents become a popular topic of discussion for one reason or another. The best example may be how Bleu de Chanel was mostly dismissed here at first, but then recently a bunch of defenders seemed to "come out of the woodwork." I don't think you will be able to figure out all the nuances, in terms of why this or that scent or topic becomes popular here at a particular time, except for very obvious examples. The idea of a "mall scent" seems to be a common one, at least among BN members, and though subject to all the qualifications when one makes such a generalization, I think it makes at least some sense. That is, the scent isn't challenging, it's sort of a mish mash or pastiche, and of course it's compliant with the latest IFRA guidelines. That said, there may be something about such a scent that I like, but I don't go out of my way to sample these and won't pay full retail. I wear $5 scents like Yacht Man Chocolate, "women's" ones like vintage Mitsouko and Cinnabar, niche, recent designer such as Roadster, and of course all kinds of vintage. To me it's about the olfactory experience first and foremost, but probably most BN members are in it for a different reason, and so I find some of those threads interesting from some other perspective, such as socio-economic or psychological, and would not want to see BN become less diverse. Let members post what they want and I'll read the threads that interest me !
    Last edited by Bigsly; 31st July 2014 at 04:53 AM.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    You would have to do a study to determine how frequently certain scents are mentioned before I would agree with your assumption. For example, the recent thread about Bleu de Chanel was very popular, unlike many posts that ask about a rare scent and get few if any responses. My point is that the "rare" posts will be disproportionate (more than appears "normal") because there are a lot more aficionados, vintage hunters, etc. who read BN than there are people (in this case, presumably men) who go to any randomly chosen brick & mortar store, even if the number of visitors is the same. What I don't understand with posts like yours is that it's almost like you think there should be a limit to the number of posts on BN. Why not "the more the merrier?" Why is it that you see things in terms of "us versus them" or "good versus bad?"
    Beats me where you get the idea of my suggesting a limit on the number of posts.

    In my opinion, "us versus them" shows up in numerous threads about designer scents I click on. There are always far more disparaging sniping comments posted about it being utterly worthless. Whereas in relation to niche scents, the negative comments are more along the lines of - I don't personally like it, but I respect the artistry/ composition (i.e. rare to see one of them called worthless).
    Regards,
    Renato

  50. #50

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Beats me where you get the idea of my suggesting a limit on the number of posts.

    In my opinion, "us versus them" shows up in numerous threads about designer scents I click on. There are always far more disparaging sniping comments posted about it being utterly worthless. Whereas in relation to niche scents, the negative comments are more along the lines of - I don't personally like it, but I respect the artistry/ composition (i.e. rare to see one of them called worthless).
    Regards,
    Renato
    I wouldn't be surprised if designer scents are more likely to be criticized in harsher terms than niche, though you'd have to try and quantify it if you wanted it to go beyond a hunch. Also, I would want to know if this is mostly done by long-term members or "Johnny come lately" types, who often don't stay around very long.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I think many designer scents are so familiar that there's not as much to talk about them. Niche is somewhat popular to discuss because there's more word of mouth being spread about how good/bad/great they are.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbz View Post
    Reminds me of the posts I see sometimes when a 16yr old guy comes on here and asks for advice on what scent to wear to prom....and I immediately think, "Oh no, no, NO!...this is not the place to come and ask that question young grasshopper!!!.
    But Basenotes was the place for the grasshoppers to come. That's how it started out - a few ultra knowledgeable types and lots of grasshoppers.

    The biggest mentor was Grant - with his designer scent Fragrance Selector Mark 1, which enabled any newbie to make sense of things.
    Regards,
    Renato

  53. #53

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    When did designer scents in general, and the biggest selling ones in the world specifically, become the province of the "mall crowd" over at Fragrantica?
    Biggest Selling isn't the mark of quality. Bud and Coors sell more beer than all microbrews combined. Yikes. MacDonald's out sells steakhouses. That being said, browse my history here and you'll find no shortage of posts where I rave about designer scents. Hanae Mori HM, TdH Parfum, Varvatos Original and especially Vintage, FAHRENHEIT!!!, DHI, Gph I and II, Boss Bottled, and yes, Curve. I could go on and on. Infusion d'Homme, Este Lauder Pleasures, Dior Homme Sport, Cannabis Santal, Happy For Men, I could go on and on.

    Designers come up all the time here. There will always be some elitists who snub their noses at anything under $100, but there will also always be people who do the same at the other end of the spectrum, writing off anything over $100. Whichever of those extremes that bothers you more is probably the one you'll notice more of. That's just human nature. But all things considered, I think there's a healthy mix here of people in the middle who enjoy both designer and niche.

    It's always easy to look back at the past and say something used to be better. Earlier this year, basenotes was a spam fest with meaningless poll after meaningless poll. "Rive Gauche VS Blach Afgano! Which is betterer?" Last year, it was a mess of Huddler, after which so much content was lost. Before that it was all Aventus, all the time.

    The forum seems pretty healthy to me these days, but I agree that more talk of designers would be good. I come here for the content, so, more talk of anything relating to men's fragrances is good for a men's fragrance forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    But Basenotes was the place for the grasshoppers to come. That's how it started out - a few ultra knowledgeable types and lots of grasshoppers.

    The biggest mentor was Grant - with his designer scent Fragrance Selector Mark 1, which enabled any newbie to make sense of things.
    Regards,
    Renato
    Perhaps, back then, there wasn't also a Just Starting Out forum here?
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  54. #54

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Biggest Selling isn't the mark of quality. Bud and Coors sell more beer than all microbrews combined. Yikes. MacDonald's out sells steakhouses. That being said, browse my history here and you'll find no shortage of posts where I rave about designer scents. Hanae Mori HM, TdH Parfum, Varvatos Original and especially Vintage, FAHRENHEIT!!!, DHI, Gph I and II, Boss Bottled, and yes, Curve. I could go on and on. Infusion d'Homme, Este Lauder Pleasures, Dior Homme Sport, Cannabis Santal, Happy For Men, I could go on and on.

    Designers come up all the time here. There will always be some elitists who snub their noses at anything under $100, but there will also always be people who do the same at the other end of the spectrum, writing off anything over $100. Whichever of those extremes that bothers you more is probably the one you'll notice more of. That's just human nature. But all things considered, I think there's a healthy mix here of people in the middle who enjoy both designer and niche.

    It's always easy to look back at the past and say something used to be better. Earlier this year, basenotes was a spam fest with meaningless poll after meaningless poll. "Rive Gauche VS Blach Afgano! Which is betterer?" Last year, it was a mess of Huddler, after which so much content was lost. Before that it was all Aventus, all the time.

    The forum seems pretty healthy to me these days, but I agree that more talk of designers would be good. I come here for the content, so, more talk of anything relating to men's fragrances is good for a men's fragrance forum.




    Perhaps, back then, there wasn't also a Just Starting Out forum here?
    I recommend Mario Valentinos Ocean Rain.

  55. #55

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Perhaps, back then, there wasn't also a Just Starting Out forum here?
    The Just Starting Out Forum was a place for beginners - because when they joined, year in and year out, they kept asking the same questions ad nauseum (as one would expect newbies to do).

    I don't think it was ever meant to be the place where they were meant to be shown the light and weaned off designer scents, so that they could stop being beginners.
    Regards,
    Renato

  56. #56

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Basenotes used to be a lot more inclusive, in my opinion.
    I have to concur with this. It seems the folks that brought the wonder of a scent - be it designer or niche - by their vivid descriptions, grasp of aroma-chemicals and what not have seemingly disappeared for the most part. The discussions now are centered around scents that I'd rather wouldn't invest time other than a cursory sniff or two. Not because I can't afford it, it just seems to be scents that tell a story that I don't feel a part of, or something like that.

    My love for designers will probably never go away. I wear Bleu de Chanel almost exclusively when I travel. It's a safe scent indeed. I tend to not try to drive or fly around with too many niche scents because.... well, my love of fragrance shouldn't mean that I want to stand out in a crowd. Let my personality do that. But not my scent that smells like something that only you'd wear during the zombie apocalypse.

    But... BN has shown me that things go in cycles. Perhaps it'll become friendly banter that shows how easily found stuff can be beautiful and not banal.

    That's my take. I wouldn't trade BN for anything, but lately the scents are getting way niche, exclusive like there's some hidden rush to find the most different and rare fragrance and less about how the scents take you places when you smell it.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Isn't that exactly why sites like this exist? It's the same for music, books, movies, etc.

    What worries me more is that at any time there are at least 3 Aventus threads on the front page.
    Last edited by Rüssel; 31st July 2014 at 09:57 AM.

  58. #58

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    Isn't that exactly why sites like this exist? It's the same for music, books, movies, etc.

    What worries me more is that at any time there are at least 3 Aventus threads on the front page.
    i don't visit them, but from your comment I guess movie sites don't discuss the latest most popular blockbuster movies and book sites don't discuss the latest best selling books, right? And music sites studiously ignore the best selling albums.
    Regards,
    Renato

  59. #59

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    You aren't that fond of Invictus - neither am I. Though I might pick a bottle up when it drops to $25.

    But I am fond of my 18Euro bottle of Roccobarocco Fashion Man which I am wearing today, it reminds me of Tobacco Vanille (similar vanilla effect, but my wife doesn't complain about it). I started a thread about it here with near zilch response.
    The nice thing about this forum is necro threading isn't really discouraged, so while there's no response now it could turn into a multi-page thread over the next five years.

  60. #60

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    i don't visit them, but from your comment I guess movie sites don't discuss the latest most popular blockbuster movies and book sites don't discuss the latest best selling books, right? And music sites studiously ignore the best selling albums.
    Regards,
    Renato
    They'll mock 50 Shades of Grey and go on and on about hard to find surrealist French poetry, yes. If there's a great new release (according to them) I'm sure they'll go on about it as well, just like people here went on about Pure Malt (and anything Pure), Aventus, Dior HI, Bentley, Spicebomb and such.

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