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  1. #61

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Something else to keep in mind: if basenotes used to be a smaller community back then, it probably felt more inclusive due to its smallness. A smaller community feels more personal since each member in a smaller community plays a larger role. Hanging out with a few friends is more personal than going to an event with a hundred people, most of whom you don't know.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I don't think that chasing down interesting new releases generally has anything at all to do with 'affluent snobbishness' , 'power' & stuff like that - it's more likely just passionate people wanting to share a new discovery imo.

    There's nothing much sold anywhere near me anyway, so my purchases are 99% made via the internet, whichever part of the market is under consideration.

    From reading the various sections here, people do share new low cost discoveries as well as the more expensive ones - Lomani being a recent example.

    I hope that I never stop exploring
    Spot on! I think comments made about the "snobbishness" of BN members who post about expensive niche fragrances reveals much more about the person making the comment than the person posting about expensive fragrances.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Something else to keep in mind: if basenotes used to be a smaller community back then, it probably felt more inclusive due to its smallness. A smaller community feels more personal since each member in a smaller community plays a larger role. Hanging out with a few friends is more personal than going to an event with a hundred people, most of whom you don't know.
    Basenotes has only been that small when it first started. It grew rapidly thereafter.
    Regards,
    Renato

  4. #64

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by caferacer View Post
    Spot on! I think comments made about the "snobbishness" of BN members who post about expensive niche fragrances reveals much more about the person making the comment than the person posting about expensive fragrances.
    In this thread, the issue of snobbishness to do with niche scents, has for the very main part been raised by people who seem firmly in the niche scent buying brigade.

    The subjects and objects of your assertion, are the same people.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    It's no longer very clear what the intention is here.

    It's always possible to start Groups away from the main Forum for the discussion of particular topics between fewer members but the Forum, essentially, is what the contributors make it imo.
    Directory contribution link:-
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    They'll mock 50 Shades of Grey and go on and on about hard to find surrealist French poetry, yes. If there's a great new release (according to them) I'm sure they'll go on about it as well, just like people here went on about Pure Malt (and anything Pure), Aventus, Dior HI, Bentley, Spicebomb and such.
    A book forum that goes on and on about surrealist French Poetry?
    Is the membership in the tens of thousands or in the tens?
    Regards,
    Renato

  7. #67

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by dmckean44 View Post
    The nice thing about this forum is necro threading isn't really discouraged, so while there's no response now it could turn into a multi-page thread over the next five years.
    I suppose it could, because anything is possible. The likelihood though, is somewhere between negligible and non-existant.

    Regards,
    Renato

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    I suppose it could, because anything is possible. The likelihood though, is somewhere between negligible and non-existant.

    Regards,
    Renato

    Why not start a Group of like-minded members and see if it provides the sort of discussion preferred?
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Why not start a Group of like-minded members and see if it provides the sort of discussion preferred?
    Is there a Designer Fragrances Group? If not, that WOULD be a useful group to start imo.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    In this thread, the issue of snobbishness to do with niche scents, has for the very main part been raised by people who seem firmly in the niche scent buying brigade.

    The subjects and objects of your assertion, are the same people.
    Cheers,
    Renato
    That feels like you're lobbing an insult. I'm going to assume it isn't aimed at me, because before anyone accuses me of being a snob, one should check my wardrobe and my history.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    Is there a Designer Fragrances Group? If not, that WOULD be a useful group to start imo.
    There doesn't seem to be - here's a list of current Groups.

    Members can start a new ones.
    Last edited by lpp; 31st July 2014 at 08:48 PM.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    It's no longer very clear what the intention is here.

    It's always possible to start Groups away from the main Forum for the discussion of particular topics between fewer members but the Forum, essentially, is what the contributors make it imo.
    As I said in one of the responses to this thread,
    "When did designer scents in general, and the biggest selling ones in the world specifically, become the province of the "mall crowd" over at Fragrantica?"

    The "mall crowd" is a condescending term. The premise is that of an elitist, rather than that of an enthusiast.
    It only takes a small proportion of the members here to take such a tone in order to send other members off elsewhere.

    Regards,
    Renato

  13. #73

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    A book forum that goes on and on about surrealist French Poetry?
    Is the membership in the tens of thousands or in the tens?
    Regards,
    Renato
    It's often like this. If you go on a metal forum they'll say Metallica and whatever is on MTV these days is nonsense and discuss some obscure bands instead. And they're mostly right, it's not just snobbery, though that can of course also play a part. Here it's niche perfumes and/or perfumes only 5 people can find.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with it though as that what makes a place like this interesting. Fragrantica seems to be a bit more "mainstream"/high street orientated.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    That feels like you're lobbing an insult. I'm going to assume it isn't aimed at me, because before anyone accuses me of being a snob, one should check my wardrobe and my history.
    Indeed not.
    Read the post I was replying to - I couldn't make out if it was aimed at me, who never mentioned "snobbishness" once.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    It is still unclear to me what this thread is hoping to achieve.

    Any member may start threads and other members will respond to threads that they find interesting.

    This thread is now in danger of turning into a rant against a Forum where many members seem to be participating perfectly happily.

    Groups are available for those who wish to have discussions on other themes.
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  16. #76

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by caferacer View Post
    Spot on! I think comments made about the "snobbishness" of BN members who post about expensive niche fragrances reveals much more about the person making the comment than the person posting about expensive fragrances.
    It speaks to both. Just because someone owns a rather expensive collection of fragrances doesn't mean that they are affluent. For all we know, they could live in a trailer park, not own a car and have a seriously misguided sense of priorities. That or perhaps an unhealthy obsession. Still, I still don't begrudge anyone for what they want and choose to spend their money on (provided they earned it rather than received it as a welfare handout, and don't have other priorities such as paying their bills or supporting their family that they should be spending it towards). That said, I find people suggesting items that cost hundred(s- plural) or dollars WAAAAAAAYYYYY too frequently (after all, it's far too easy these days for people to spend "other people's" money for them). The suggestions that I believe should be taken more seriously, are the ones where perhaps a few "high dollar niche" items are suggested, maybe a couple of good "mid range (price-wise) designer scents", as well as a couple of "hidden gem, bargain basement" recommendations.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Indeed not.
    You say "indeed not" but I'm the one who used the term "mall crowd." L'homme is a fantastic scent, but it's everywhere so I have no interest in it. I don't want to be on a date and smell like every other guy she may have met. To me, that's no different than not wanting to look like I just stepped off the page of a GAP ad. Bleu is a smash success for Chanel, but it's not for me - not because I'm elitist. I'm absolutely not. It's because, as an enthusiast, I've found scents that are less common yet equally pleasing if not more. Discovery is part of what being an enthusiast is all about. Some of the scents I've found are designer. Some are niche. I should also note that I shop at Ikea, but I look elsewhere too because I don't want my home to look like an Ikea catalogue. Be careful not to mistake individuality for elitism.

    Part of the reason there isn't more talk about best sellers is because it's more fun to talk about what's new or what's different.

    Frankly, I don't see you posting threads about AdG, Bleu, L'homme, Gucci Guilty or 1 Million. You're complaining that people aren't talking about best sellers. I don't see you starting threads about best sellers either.

    If you want change, be the change you seek. Lead by example.

    If you want more threads about designer scents, be the person who starts threads about designer scents rather than complaining when others don't. If you want more talk about designer scents, be the person who shows up in threads to recommend designer scents. Be the person who takes part in threads about designer scents. Be the change you seek.
    Last edited by L'Homme Blanc Individuel; 31st July 2014 at 09:30 PM.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  18. #78

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Indeed not.
    Read the post I was replying to - I couldn't make out if it was aimed at me, who never mentioned "snobbishness" once.
    Cheers,
    Renato
    I mentioned it one time, not thinking it was a big deal. Especially since I didn't ACCUSE anyone of it, but said "but a lot of times the ones mentioned come with a hefty price tag, which could suggest a bit of an affluent snobbishness on behalf of the one doing the suggesting as well." (key word, "could") Sadly, that was the part of the entire post that a few chose to latch on to, but rather than trying to understand the context of the comment, they instead chose to go in to a bit of a defensive mode. Personally, I'm of the belief that if something said doesn't pertain to the one reading the comment, then there shouldn't be any reason for any follow-up comments and criticisms to be made regarding it.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post


    If you want change, be the change you seek. Lead by example.

    If you want more threads about designer scents, be the person who starts threads about designer scents rather than complaining when others don't. If you want more talk about designer scents, be the person who shows up in threads to recommend designer scents. Be the person who takes part in threads about designer scents. Be the change you seek.
    That's a positive idea
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  20. #80

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan View Post
    I mentioned it one time, not thinking it was a big deal. Especially since I didn't ACCUSE anyone of it, but said "but a lot of times the ones mentioned come with a hefty price tag, which could suggest a bit of an affluent snobbishness on behalf of the one doing the suggesting as well." (key word, "could") Sadly, that was the part of the entire post that a few chose to latch on to, but rather than trying to understand the context of the comment, they instead chose to go in to a bit of a defensive mode. Personally, I'm of the belief that if something said doesn't pertain to the one reading the comment, then there shouldn't be any reason for any follow-up comments and criticisms to be made regarding it.
    Nothing was defensive in my observation that the subjects and objects you were referring to in your post were the same people.
    You can peruse all the responses to verify that.
    Regards,
    Renato

  21. #81
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan View Post
    The suggestions that I believe should be taken more seriously, are the ones where perhaps a few "high dollar niche" items are suggested, maybe a couple of good "mid range (price-wise) designer scents", as well as a couple of "hidden gem, bargain basement" recommendations.
    Excellent point. Unfortunately there are too few BNers with that breadth and depth of experience. Most would only recommend what they know or what they personally enjoy. Price-wise I seldom take issue with pricey recommendations, not when you can easily stick to your modest budget yet splurge on a split or a decant of a better quality fragrance. But it seems many have trouble considering alternatives to 'full bottle' purchases.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    It is still unclear to me what this thread is hoping to achieve.
    I made an initial observation that the biggest selling scents in the world don't get much discussion here, and sought opinions.

    By far most responses were in agreement with my observation.

    The reasons for that agreement though, varied greatly - ranging from agreement to my observation that Basenotes seems less inclusive nowadays than it used to be, to enthusiasts not finding much to be enthused about with the biggest selling scents in the world, to out right defensiveness on the presumption that I'm attacking people who own expensive scents (which is pretty curious, as my wardrobe plainly shows I own scents many would put in that category).

    So we've all had an excellent and fairly civil and polite discussion about scents on the male fragrance discussion board, and as a result, someone may sniff Roccobarocco Fashion Man next time they come across it, and possibly respond to my thread on it.
    Regards,
    Renato

  23. #83

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    I can't help noticing something here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    I made an initial observation that the biggest selling scents in the world don't get much discussion here
    Followed up by:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    The reasons for that agreement though, varied greatly - ranging from agreement to my observation that Basenotes seems less inclusive nowadays than it used to be, to enthusiasts not finding much to be enthused about with the biggest selling scents in the world
    And then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    So we've all had an excellent and fairly civil and polite discussion about scents on the male fragrance discussion board, and as a result, someone may sniff Roccobarocco Fashion Man next time they come across it, and possibly respond to my thread on it.
    Uhm... Roccobarocco Fashion Man is an obscure scent. It was launched in 2009, yet it's only been smelled by ten people on Fragrantica, and I can't even find it on the basenotes directory. It is certainly not one of the biggest selling scents in the world.

    That means, in this very thread, you did exactly what you complained about everyone else doing. You say there isn't enough talk about the biggest selling scents in the world, but you wrote about one that's obscure.

    I'm hoping that you can now understand why there isn't more talk about the biggest selling scents in the world. We all do exactly what you just did. We talk about what interests us. Roccobarocco Fashion Man interests you, and I'm glad you mentioned it because if you hadn't, I might never have heard of it. Roccobarocco Fashion Man is as obscure to me as the scents you see others discuss that you've never heard of. I live in a metro area of 2 million people and I don't know of a single store that carries it. I'm not even familiar with the name beyond having seen it a few times here on basenotes.

    I don't disagree that the majority of threads on basenotes aren't about the biggest selling scents in the world. As I said, a major reason why that happens is because we all tend to be more interested in talking about scents that inspire us. Even obscure ones, like Roccobarocco Fashion Man.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  24. #84

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Excellent point. Unfortunately there are too few BNers with that breadth and depth of experience. Most would only recommend what they know or what they personally enjoy.
    Exactly.

    In just about any given category there is a wide range of examples from cheap 'n cheerful to exclusive, limited edition items. Not only is it difficult to find people who have experienced examples across the range (generally it's from people who have a favorite 'note' or style - my one being sandalwood, which I can expound upon at great length) but there are fewer people who can offer a credible insight into what is reasonably well constructed given what we assume to be the perfumer's brief and budget . . . but this is, to an extent, a 'specialist' public forum so I'm grateful for the reviewers and members who 'stretch' themselves a bit and make an effort.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  25. #85

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    This applies to almost any specialized online forum, Renato. Timex may be the world's best selling watch, but visit an online watch forum and tell me how many people are discussing the brand. Forums like BN are where like minded people come to dig into the meat and bones of a particular hobby, not discuss what's on the surface.

  26. #86
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Here's a thread for designer experts.
    Someone started it yesterday evening.
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/385...afe-fragrances
    Directory contribution link:-
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  27. #87

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    I can't help noticing something here:



    Followed up by:



    And then:



    Uhm... Roccobarocco Fashion Man is an obscure scent. It was launched in 2009, yet it's only been smelled by ten people on Fragrantica, and I can't even find it on the basenotes directory. It is certainly not one of the biggest selling scents in the world.

    That means, in this very thread, you did exactly what you complained about everyone else doing. You say there isn't enough talk about the biggest selling scents in the world, but you wrote about one that's obscure.

    I'm hoping that you can now understand why there isn't more talk about the biggest selling scents in the world. We all do exactly what you just did. We talk about what interests us. Roccobarocco Fashion Man interests you, and I'm glad you mentioned it because if you hadn't, I might never have heard of it. Roccobarocco Fashion Man is as obscure to me as the scents you see others discuss that you've never heard of. I live in a metro area of 2 million people and I don't know of a single store that carries it. I'm not even familiar with the name beyond having seen it a few times here on basenotes.

    I don't disagree that the majority of threads on basenotes aren't about the biggest selling scents in the world. As I said, a major reason why that happens is because we all tend to be more interested in talking about scents that inspire us. Even obscure ones, like Roccobarocco Fashion Man.
    Three reviews at Fragrantica and one at Basenotes. The Basenotes review is the more accurate of the four, in my opinion.

    I don't look at inspiration from scents - inspiration to do what? Wear it?

    Regards,
    Renato

  28. #88

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Just counted 16 designer scent threads out of 50.
    Good to see the count trending up.
    Regards,
    Renato

  29. #89

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveHippo View Post
    This applies to almost any specialized online forum, Renato. Timex may be the world's best selling watch, but visit an online watch forum and tell me how many people are discussing the brand. Forums like BN are where like minded people come to dig into the meat and bones of a particular hobby, not discuss what's on the surface.
    At those watch forums, are people dismissive and/or subtly or overtly negative towards those who raise Timex in a thread?

    Do they say that rather than buy four or five Timex watches, one is better off saving up and getting a quality Rolex instead?

    Or instead, is Timex treated with respect as a quality brand on the occasions it is raised, though it may not be raised as often because it's not quite as exciting as other brands?
    Regards,
    Renato
    Last edited by Renato; 2nd August 2014 at 07:19 PM.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    I don't look at inspiration from scents - inspiration to do what? Wear it?
    Are you really saying you've never smelled a scent that inspires you? It sounds like you're missing out then.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  31. #91

    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    At those watch forums, are people dismissive and/or subtly or overtly negative towards those who raise Timex in a thread?

    Do they say that rather than buy four or five Timex watches, one is better off saving up and getting a quality Rolex instead?

    Or instead, is Timex treated with respect as a quality brand on the occasions it is raised, though it may not be raised as often because it's not quite as exciting as other brands?
    You're trying to make a case that designers are universally disrespected here, and that's simply not true. Here's a thread about Nikos Sculpture - a designer cheapie. There's no disrespect in there. Here's a thread about Versace Pour Homme. There's no disrespect about it being a designer scent. The only flak I'm seeing in that thread is that it smells synthetic to some people, and that's a fair point.

    I'm surprised that you don't seem to realize you did the exact same thing you're complaining about. You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    If I was someone who quite liked fragrances that are sold in stores worldwide, and who wanted some guidance, I suspect I'd be a bit perplexed if I came to this forum. As for me right now, I can't comment on around two thirds or more of the threads, mainly because I don't know the scents being discussed and am unlikely to ever come across most of them.
    And then, as a scent you think basenotes should be talking about, you cited one that is very obscure which most people have never heard of nor would have access to. OK, you didn't like that I used the word "inspired" so you ignored the point my post and commented on that word instead. It doesn't change the fact that you want people talking about, and I quote, the biggest selling scents in the world, but you yourself chose to talk about something obscure. You don't like that there's so much talk about scents you've never heard of, but YOU talked about a scent most people have never heard of. Think about why you did it and you'll understand why others do it too.

    It isn't fair to criticize others for doing the same thing you do. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with talking about Fashion Man. I think it's great that you did. I'm just saying, it isn't fair to criticize others for not talking about the biggest selling scents in the world when you're also not talking about the biggest selling scents in the world.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  32. #92
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    Default Re: Fragrances of the World vs Fragrances of Basenotes

    It's looking like this thread is just going round in circles and will serve no purpose if left to continue.

    I suspect that we should all agree to differ and pursue (or start) threads according to our interests because it looks like the only way forward.

    We don't like closing threads but this one should probably suffer that fate before some are provoked into rule breaking.
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