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  1. #151

    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    perhaps this question is a bit dumb or naive, but if the resellers/distributors are being sued for selling fakes, i would assume a receipt from their original purchase with the company would be some kind of proof of selling the real thing? i.e. let me buy 1000 bottles of real [insert fragrance here] from the manufacturer. now let me go out of my way to acquire 1000 fake bottles, sell those instead, and do absolutely nothing with the 1000 real ones i got.

    as for the whole blocking thing by LVMH, disgusting indeed. also, this level of ignorance today by the french gov for enforcing it is inexcusable and it would be a good time to insert favorite gov incompetence jokes.

    however, i do think any company has a right to stop selling to a distributor or reseller if they advertise below MAP (minimum advertised price, if there was one) or any other terms that they BOTH agreed to in the contract.

  2. #152
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by fp627 View Post
    perhaps this question is a bit dumb or naive, but if the resellers/distributors are being sued for selling fakes, i would assume a receipt from their original purchase with the company would be some kind of proof of selling the real thing? i.e. let me buy 1000 bottles of real [insert fragrance here] from the manufacturer. now let me go out of my way to acquire 1000 fake bottles, sell those instead, and do absolutely nothing with the 1000 real ones i got.

    as for the whole blocking thing by LVMH, disgusting indeed. also, this level of ignorance today by the french gov for enforcing it is inexcusable and it would be a good time to insert favorite gov incompetence jokes.

    however, i do think any company has a right to stop selling to a distributor or reseller if they advertise below MAP (minimum advertised price, if there was one) or any other terms that they BOTH agreed to in the contract.
    Not at all naive and thanks for joining in. If you read my post about 9 posts back, (a reply to viffer) it explains the problem of proving the genuine article by showing a receipt. The product has been sold on in a chain so many times that it would be impossible to trace it back to the original seller, (the said company). Also, there was a trick the companies use by deliberately,(secretly) placing some sort of code inside the packaging. This was highlighted in detail in the tv documentary. This code was shown under a special light by the programme makers. By inserting this code the companies are pretending that the product does not belong to them - although it clearly does.These are tricks used to eliminate the small players and keep illegal fixed high prices to make larger profits and to keep shareholders happy.
    Please have a look at the 6 minute tv documentary. One poster has provided a direct link.
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  3. #153

    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    IMHO, in a more perfect world the burden of proof would be on the accuser. Variations in packaging or the color of the juice could be used. A side-by-side wearing by the jury or judge might show that one scent was discernibly different from the other. And in the case of Lancome, surely they have the wherewithal to prove something wasn't authentic with use of gas chromatography, unless I've watched a few too many episodes of CSI.
    Currently wearing: Vetiver by Jalaine

  4. #154

    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    That's because you do not have a point about Chanel. L'Oreal generates 4 times the revenue. L'Oreal employs 57 times as many people. There is no market equivalence between them. You are drawing a parallel where market presence does not have parity. You are trying to continue this extravagant luxury comparison between brands that have totally different images and retail price levels. L'Oreal has 17 brands just under Luxe. They own Maybelline, Redken, and the Body Shop. Chanel doesn't have anything to do with L'Oreal.
    Once again ignoring my point: the size of the company is not it. Chanel has eliminated third party sales on all but Ebay (where you have to weed through used and fake merchandise), yet no complaints from you. I think your entire argument lacks the wind to fill Chanel's teeny-tiny microscopic upstart sails.

  5. #155
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    Once again ignoring my point: the size of the company is not it. Chanel has eliminated third party sales on all but Ebay (where you have to weed through used and fake merchandise), yet no complaints from you. I think your entire argument lacks the wind to fill Chanel's teeny-tiny microscopic upstart sails.
    Hank, why do you not want to see the facts. Genuine Chanel perfumes are available on ebay. They are not all fakes - probably a very small number may be. Most of them to me appear to be genuine to me. I do agree with you that no Chanel perfumes can be found on amazon, although, (strangely) many Christian Dior perfumes...and they both belong to the same company, (LVMH) ??? !!!
    But at the end of the day, the very fact that Chanel has managed to eliminate third party sales makes them highly suspicious. This is against the law of free trade. Thanks for bringing up this point.
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  6. #156
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by socalwoman View Post
    IMHO, in a more perfect world the burden of proof would be on the accuser. Variations in packaging or the color of the juice could be used. A side-by-side wearing by the jury or judge might show that one scent was discernibly different from the other. And in the case of Lancome, surely they have the wherewithal to prove something wasn't authentic with use of gas chromatography, unless I've watched a few too many episodes of CSI.
    Good points. Unfortunately in Germany the accused has to prove that the perfume is not a fake....and the accusing companies have thought of everything - even intruducing false codes to win their case.
    Please watch the tv documentary where this point is highlighted in detail.
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  7. #157
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    Default Re: German Television Documentary

    After having read through this very interesting thread, have to watch that documentary.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  8. #158

    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    I do agree with you that no Chanel perfumes can be found on amazon, although, (strangely) many Christian Dior perfumes...and they both belong to the same company, (LVMH) ??? !!!
    Chanel is privately held. Also, their profitability is twice that of LVMH. This is obviously due to their ability to charge higher prices for comparably priced raw materials. I don't know why consumers would want to pay more for roughly the same ingredients, but some apparently do. There is some misunderstood difference, but I think these government regulations in the EU and the restrictions self-imposed by the industry are highlighting the fact that these multi-billion dollar firms are playing the same game by the same rules as far as compositions go.

  9. #159

    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    But at the end of the day, the very fact that Chanel has managed to eliminate third party sales makes them highly suspicious. This is against the law of free trade.
    It's not highly suspicious at all. Everyone knows Chanel runs a tight ship in regards to distribution. They have that right. Some people on Ebay isn't really the same thing. Sure people sell THEIR Chanels on Ebay, and they are third party sellers, but a lot of the fakes look very real, and many of the sales on there are for used vintages. If your answer is, "well I can still buy it on Ebay," then Chanel has done a terrific job of whittling buyer options down.

  10. #160
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    It's not highly suspicious at all. Everyone knows Chanel runs a tight ship in regards to distribution. They have that right. Some people on Ebay isn't really the same thing. Sure people sell THEIR Chanels on Ebay, and they are third party sellers, but a lot of the fakes look very real, and many of the sales on there are for used vintages. If your answer is, "well I can still buy it on Ebay," then Chanel has done a terrific job of whittling buyer options down.
    ...and every "informed" person knows full well the antics of LVMH. The director of the company invested heavily in shares in Hermes and then (against the will of Hermes) tried an aggressive takeover of the company.It didn't succeed. He was found guilty, and (thank God) Hermes is free from the shakles of LVMH.I personally prefer perfume brands, (such as Jean Patou) to be under the umbrella of Procter&Gamble. Anything is better than LVMH ! Unfortunately, the vision of George Orwell has come true. These corperations have grown dangerously large and now have the monopoly.
    We have all become "corperate toadies".
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  11. #161
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    It's not highly suspicious at all. Everyone knows Chanel runs a tight ship in regards to distribution. They have that right. Some people on Ebay isn't really the same thing. Sure people sell THEIR Chanels on Ebay, and they are third party sellers, but a lot of the fakes look very real, and many of the sales on there are for used vintages. If your answer is, "well I can still buy it on Ebay," then Chanel has done a terrific job of whittling buyer options down.
    "If your answer is, well I can still buy it on ebay"..."then Chanel has done a terrific job of whittling buyer options down"
    No. If I can still buy it on ebay, they have clearly not done a good job.
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  12. #162
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    Chanel is privately held. Also, their profitability is twice that of LVMH. This is obviously due to their ability to charge higher prices for comparably priced raw materials. I don't know why consumers would want to pay more for roughly the same ingredients, but some apparently do. There is some misunderstood difference, but I think these government regulations in the EU and the restrictions self-imposed by the industry are highlighting the fact that these multi-billion dollar firms are playing the same game by the same rules as far as compositions go.
    Thanks for this info. I thought Chanel was under the LVMH umbrella.
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  13. #163
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    Default Re: German Television Documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    After having read through this very interesting thread, have to watch that documentary.
    Thanks hednic. Someone on this thread has provided a link to the 7 minute tv documentary, but it will not be active for very much longer. Try and see it as soon as possible.
    ps. enjoy your travels and try to check out Cuir Sensuel !!!
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  14. #164

    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    "If your answer is, well I can still buy it on ebay"..."then Chanel has done a terrific job of whittling buyer options down"
    No. If I can still buy it on ebay, they have clearly not done a good job.
    Ebay is hardly a go-to for Chanels.

    David I'm not going to belabor this anymore than I already have, but I just want to ask you: do you believe that when a company produces a product, anyone should be allowed to sell their product, at absolutely any price they please? Please give me a straight answer. This is a yes or no question.

  15. #165

    Default Re: German Television Documentary

    Money makes the world go round. Amen!

  16. #166
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    Default Re: L'Oreal - Ruthless Dirty Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    Ebay is hardly a go-to for Chanels.

    David I'm not going to belabor this anymore than I already have, but I just want to ask you: do you believe that when a company produces a product, anyone should be allowed to sell their product, at absolutely any price they please? Please give me a straight answer. This is a yes or no question.
    Hi Hank.
    This is how I see it. If company "X" manufacture a product and sell it on, (to whoever)....the deal is done. So my answer is a straight yes. I do believe in a free market. In a capitalist system, provided the laws are adhered to and no prices are allowed to be fixed. Let the free market ultimately determine the value of product X.
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  17. #167

    Default Re: German Television Documentary

    The thought that anyone from a capitalist region would answer no is laughable. When the manufacturer sells the product, they have generated their revenue. That is it, they have sold it to their customer and made their money. Price is just a (terrible) way to communicate information about the product. Might as well not allow reviews to be made and posted if the concern is that consumers might get a more accurate picture of the manufacturing.

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