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  1. #31

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Actually, that all would be about the biology of sexuality in mammals, and the psychology of sexuality, moreso than just philosophy.

    A fair bit to untangle here...

    While pheromone marketing is sketchy, and wild claims of magic potions are not reasonable, there actually really is some good research supporting the existence of them. Humans are just mammals, and scientists have long known pheromones are part of mammalian life for all mammals. Dogs, pigs and humans all share likely pheromoes, actually.

    Humans are animals. Animals refers to human animals as well. Deer musk and human skin substances, and civet, etc. actually do share commonalities. Again, we are talking about mammals. Humans are mammals. The same chemical that makes a wet dog smell as such, isovaleric acid, makes humans' feet stink.

    Actually human pheromones do not rely on the functionality of the VNO organ, which functions poorly in humans. Cognition and other higher order processing mediates the effect of pheromones in humans to a greater extent, though the biological effect on the emotional brain centers is still fairly direct.

    If I was trying to create human sweat, I would be certainly open to the use of steroid molecules like androsterone and and androstadienone. They are present in sweat, in any case. You wouldn't have to of course. But it could be one approach. Using animal products is another legit approach.

    It's as close as you'll get, as there is no human musk yet reconstructed by scientists Some day there will be, most probably..

    Isovaleric acid is extremely valuable for perfuming, and certainly does not ruin scents. Valerian root is one of my favorite natural substances for perfuming, as bad as it smells. Not knowing how to use it ruins a lot of scents, however.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 15th August 2014 at 06:33 AM.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    How do you usually use it? Always having trouble wirh Spikenard, which is even tamer. A good way to add a human musk dimension would be to make your perfume a deodorant

  3. #33

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    How do you usually use it? Always having trouble wirh Spikenard, which is even tamer. A good way to add a human musk dimension would be to make your perfume a deodorant
    Of course, most people here including yourself know you have to dilute something like valerian, which is one of those things that get stronger the more dilute it is. You use it like acetic or butyric acid, dimethyl sulfide, or indole. With the exception of DMS (human sweat does contain other sulphur notes, though), these are all human sweat notes, found on the human body. The experienced folk here, of course, know that the things that smell bad out of context, or in the wrong dilution, are often some of the most important materials for perfuming.

    One of the attractions of natural perfuming as an option is that it is easier to find earthy things that stand up to underarm stink. You can negate underarm stink with, say, straight patchouli for example, not that you would necessarily use it straight, and it's very convenient. It is possible to make a natural scent that smells better under one's arms than on a paper strip (though certainly it would also be common for a commercial perfume to be ruined when sprayed in the armpits). The stinky animal notes are simply incorporated into the effect, and the earthy essential oils often somewhat reduce bacteria, or slow its growth, or perhaps even influence which strains grow most vigorously.

    Spikenard has some chemical commonalities with valerian, but you can pretty much use valerian just for the valeric acid, since you can dilute it so much that the effect will be mostly about that. So spikenard for me is a bit harder to use as it's so complex. Valerian is complex, but since the stinky feet smell is so incredibly strong, you can minimize the disadvantages of the complexity and use it as a musk note in traces, for that purpose. You don't use it to carry the need for musk, just as an aspect of an animal accord. Isovaleric acid should not be the primary sweat note, in my opinion, though. It's better in a supporting role, as it is for humans.

    Interesting story about spikenard is that it was reputed to be used to anoint Jesus' feet, which makes perfect sense, as it smells like feet so would be used a "foot note", logically. Makes me sort of believe the legend.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 15th August 2014 at 07:10 AM.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Interesting story about spikenard is that it was reputed to be used to anoint Jesus' feet, which makes perfect sense, as it smells like feet so would be used a "foot note", logically. Makes me sort of believe the legend.

    There's really not so much agreement as to what was actually used to anoint the feet of Jesus. I've done a bit of my own research about it all.

    Nard is an ancient unguent of composite formula, and not actually a pure spikenard extraction of some type. And since it's a formulation, it's likely to be somewhat different between Apothecarys/Perfumers preparing it, doncha think?

    And the other aspect of Nard is that it is a Greek Tuberose flower, and If I had to pick what scent might be used on the feet of a person you were gifting with your love and devotion, I'm certainly sure it wouldn't be purely spikenard. And since it's a woman doing the gifting, I'm leaning to the historical unguent that may have included the flower from Greece, maybe in an early enfleurage type of oil base used in the unguent formulation.

    Just thinking, and hypothesizing...

    That's what I know and what I think on the subject... :-)

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  5. #35

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Yes, I didn't mean to imply there was agreement on it, I believe costus was another possiblity bandied about, another less than pretty smell. I should have said it's one of the possibilities talked about.

    Interesting about "nard". I'm not really prepared to discuss translation issues and that sort of thing. But it is interesting, thanks.

    I personally would have no problem expressing love and devotion with something very earthy and raw like spikenard, but that is just my own bias to love dearly the more difficult earthy smells. I imagine pure spikenard on the feet actually would smell good after a few hours. Because the whole point is that it is a smell that naturally blends with the primary odorous foot chemical, isovaleric acid. Try it, Nizan, and see. Spikenard plus sandalwood, or something, on the feet. Jesus walked a lot, we hear, and I'm sure His "dogs" (a term directly related to isovaleric acid in its origin as a colloquialism) developed a "bouquet" like other humans, If I might put it that way (Please don't hit me with a lightning bolt, Jesus! j/k).

    Aesthetics seem to have been quite different a long time ago, if you look at some of the biblical formulae. I do think it likely that there wasn't so much of a need or desire for things to smell "pretty", fresh or clean by modern standards. I mean there is no flower smell that can equal patchouli or sandalwood strictly as a bodily hygiene item. Flower oils turn rancid in the presence of sweat, just as a general rule. But something earthier will just be getting lovely after a couple hours, and then will be quite beautiful later in the day. Nowadays, we have trouble overlooking the immediate notes when they aren't sweet, clean and/or pretty. That is a whole different discussion.

    And what the heck do I know about any of this? It's just interesting to speculate. To further guess, I will speculate that Jesus would have liked a very simple scent, that He would have appreciated the simplest beauties of nature. I am imagining more of a Pope Francis type than a fancy monarch type. On the other hand I also appreciate that the average person, or maybe Mary Magdalene, might well have wanted to "materially impress" Jesus with something fancy like a tuberose accord.

    Sorry I digressed a bit... Interesting thread.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 15th August 2014 at 08:33 AM.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    The Chemistry of a Football Shirt

    http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/08/...ootball-shirt/

    I want to know *WHERE* the scent of the football shirt is...!

    :-)

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  7. #37

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Sandaxol reminds me of skin, so it might be useful and give some body..
    And Clary (especially abs.) is said to be kinda sweaty, but my sweat doesn't usually smell THAT sweet
    Yes! Clary Sage is definitely a good male sweat note (in my opinion)

  8. #38

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    zmiyashiro, the point I tried to make was that if you know exactly what you want, it is upon you to compose that note, whatever materials you may choose from the many suggested in the thread. What is important is the odor blend, or the effect upon a composition.

    I also suggested that the rout taken by the “pheromone” manufacturers is not very productive, and I will add that the approach is somewhat simplistic, IMO. For example, the author of a patent (WO2008138651 A2) recommends the addition into a styling gel of 0.15% perfume and 0.0003% androstadienone. This will work only if AND has pheromonal activity. Another example, not related to armpit scents, is the perfume ‘Vulva’ by Vivaeros, 2008. To me it seems that the author(s) put in all the good stuff, but the end result didn’t impress reviewers (see https://www.facebook.com/pages/Scent...63202847040070, 2012) and did not match up the name, because the author(s) was not sufficiently guided by his nose.

    About animalic notes as "sexy" or "sexual", and why would we consider sexy an underlying note of a deer secretion. First, I think that the perfumers that use animalic notes try / succeed to obtain exactly the same effect you are seeking. Second, the term “animalic” has many meanings. For example:
    - A category of raw materials, e.g., animal (ambergris, civet, musk, etc.), vegetal (flowers, fruits, woods, etc.), mineral (ammonia, hydrogen sulfide, salt)
    - A category of odors related to this materials, e.g., musky, fecal, urinous, sweaty, goaty, etc., floral, sulfurous, etc.
    - An euphemism, when more precise qualifiers cannot be used, e.g., amboxan is animalic because it bears the typical odor of ambergris tincture; but look up the characterization of the odor of ambergris tincture by Poucher: the smell of good quality ambergris tincture is slightly animalic (fecal, due to ambrinol); low qulity (black) ambergris has a strong animalic smell (fecal & carrion), due to many impurities.

    Notes:
    - There is much disagreement with respect to the definition of pheromones
    - For me pheromones are bombikol and Boarmate™
    - Copulins are not pheromones in monkeys
    - ‘Signature odors’ that carry information about individuals are not pheromones
    - The sense of smell is very important for the socio-sexual behavior of humans, but so far no human pheromone was identified, and the behaviors can be easily explained by conditioning.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    -- I copied a personal communication from a top literature reviewer in pheromone studies (JV Kohl) to save time, but here is some information on copulins, through him from from the woman who did the seminal work, Astrid Jutte:

    ">>>... you are welcome to post it if you can get ahold of it in digital
    form,but you must attribute it to New Scientist and mention that we have
    a web site at http://www.newscientist.com/ updated weekly where other
    stories reside...>>>
    >
    With permission granted (above), here is the article.
    >
    > [P L A N E T S C I E N C E]
    >
    > Men respond to the scent of a woman
    >
    > [Image] IT HAS long been believed that men are unable to
    > tell when women ovulate. But new research from
    > Austria suggests that although men may not be
    > aware that a woman is ovulating, they do respond
    > physiologically with increased testosterone
    > levels.
    >
    > Astrid Jutte, a researcher at the Ludwig
    > Boltzmann Institute for Urban Ethology in
    > Vienna, carried out tests on 106 men, divided
    > into four groups. Three groups were asked to
    > inhale one of three synthetically produced human
    > copulins--fatty acids found in vaginal
    > secretions in women at various times during the
    > menstrual cycle. One of the copulins mimicked
    > ovulation, one menstruation and the third
    > another point in the cycle. The fourth group of
    > men inhaled only water vapour.
    >
    > Jutte found that testosterone levels in the
    > saliva of those men exposed to the scent of
    > ovulation increased by half, while levels in
    > those sniffing only water dropped by half.
    > Levels in the two other groups increased
    > slightly, says Jutte.
    >
    > Previous research has shown that although rhesus
    > monkeys respond to ovulation by scent, in human
    > females ovulation is "hidden" from men. One
    > theory has suggested that hidden ovulation makes
    > it possible for a woman to cheat on her mate if
    > he is found to be genetically unfit.
    >
    > But Jutte believes the idea that human ovulation
    > is truly hidden has never been properly tested.
    > "These results suggest a special kind of hidden
    > ovulation," she says. "The effect on
    > testosterone levels changes the picture
    > completely." She points out that many mammals
    > have an additional scent organ to perceive
    > smells designed to alter their behaviour or
    > physiology. Previous tests indicated that humans
    > also have this organ, known as the vomeronasal.
    >
    > Although Jutte showed that men respond
    > physiologically to ovulating women, she says she
    > was unable to prove that ovulation affects their
    > attraction to women.
    >
    > Alison Motluk
    >
    > See also: Body odours, perfumes
    >
    > From New Scientist, 7 September 1996
    >
    >--------------------------
    >Additional considerations/human implications:
    >
    >LeMagnen (1982) states: "... the interaction between sensory inputs and
    >hormonal levels appears to be a general rule in the
    >enteroceptive-exteroceptive relationships underlying behaviours (p. 8)."
    >
    >Persky (1987) suggests: "... a form of communication exists between the
    >two partners whereby the female informs the male that she has ovulated
    >and he responds, like the dominant rhesus monkey, with an increase in
    >his testosterone level facilitating his entire sexual response cycle."
    >
    >Taken together, Juette's empirical data, Persky's speculation, and
    >LeMagnen's observation suggest (but do not prove beyond a shadow of a
    >doubt)that the pheromones of women influence properly timed reproductive
    >sexual behavior by influencing testosterone levels in men."

    -- Yes human pheromones have been identified. Androsterone has empirical support (Regina Maiworm's studies), as does androsterol and androstadienone. That just means significant effects have been found. It does not mean magic love potions exist. They don't. But when you see a bump in sex hormones (e.g., leutenizing hormone), that is just about as solid of information as you could have. That kind of evidence is out there. It's not subjective. There are lots of purported pheromones. Most of them have no research on them yet. But a lot of people are experimenting and reporting their experiences.

    -- Boarmate is androstenone. Androstenone has some limited evidence supporting it also -- women's response to it varies with menstrual cycle. That's one of the markers a scientist would look for. Women also choose seats sprayed with androstenone, despite their finding the smell offensive when they can detect it consciously.

    -- I see no problem with defining pheromones, A chemical that causes relevant biological and or behavioral changes. No one in science defines them in terms of some romanticized notion. Though there are some studies that document increased sexual behavior by those wearing pheromones. Ogb

    -- What behaviors can be easily explained by what kind of conditioning? The only conditioning that is often mentioned in peromone research that I've seen a lot is the kind where pheromone response is paired with secondary and tertiary sexual characteristics that correlate with hormonal levels (testosterone and estrogen-related hormones). But in this case, the presence of conditioning is used to argue FOR the existence of human pheromones. The argument is that the pheromones directly cause sexcal changes, and secondary sex chartacteristics cause sexual changes only via being paired with olfactory cues (pheromones). I was one who wanted to debunk that, and I found it difficult, honestly. But the presence of conditioning supported pheromones in those cases. My criticism of it ended up being that it was reductionistic, though not flat out wrong.

    -- regarding deer musk. I challenge anyone who can to try deeply inhaling the best quality Tonquin deer musk in sexual situations to experience what it does. Find out for yourself. For me there is zero doubt what it does. I think it probably could be documented scientifically to cause a hormonal spike, but that research has probably not been attempted. I know how it would turn out, though. Anyone can experience it. It's like proving wine can get you drunk. How? Drink some.

    -- I was going to agree signature odors are not pheromones, but then I remembered all the MHC studies (mate choice and immune compatibility studies). Actually the immune profile is a kind of signature as well as a pheromone. Women prefer the t-shirts of men with compatible immune systems to their own, in order to maximize immune robustness of offspring. It's all about survival like everything else in biology.

    -- I agree that companies marketing pheromones are misleading in their marketing. I regard all that stuff as spam that should be ignored. There are no magic love potions, and just because you can cause a statistically significant hormone spike doesn't mean you'll "get lucky" with anyone. Cognition, which is influnced by culture, mediates pheromone response in humans. I don't wear "human pheromones" anyway, because I've always wanted a woman to react to me for who I am, not a fake misleading smell.

    -- Besides testing specific substances, there is all kinds of other evidence that human behavior is influenced by pheromones. The most famous early studies demonstrated reliable menstrual synchronization among cohabitating females. Anyone can verify this for themselves as well. Do you know a bunch of young women who have lived together for a long time? Then there are t-shirt studies that demonstrate the expected hormonal responses.

    -- Here is a very recent literature review pdf, from a scientific journal. They seem more ambitious and enthusiastic than I am in their conclusions. This is just a very random example of some of the research. I had never seen this one before today, but it is an overview of sorts. So a lot of stuff is out there from serious academics.

    http://jadweb.org/pdf/JAD.Vol2.No4.pdf/1.pdf

    Sorry for the digression, but felt obliged to repond to the specific scientific claims in kind. Sorry the post was so choppy, but I didn't want to spend many hours composing something more like a scholarly article, for little reason. I'm just trying to indicate that there is more out there to learn about than a lot of "skeptics" think. Someone can review the literature themselves. I've just hinted here at what they can find..
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 16th August 2014 at 05:12 AM.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    DrSmellThis, I am sorry if my previous post was received as offensive or confrontational. It was specifically addressed to zmiyashiro. I added the notes to make clear my position viz. human pheromones, and to signal that the science of human pheromones is far from settled.

    With regard to human pheromones I would consider myself a ‘forced agnostic’ or pessimist, rather than a skeptic (well, except copulins ).

    The fact that you call androsterone, androstenol and androstadienone, ‘pheromones’ when I would prefer ‘putative pheromones’ has no effect on my reading / understanding of your posts, and didn’t diminish their informative value.

    Regarding deer musk??? It would be astonishing if musk tincture has no ‘effect’. It contains some 20 steroids, about half of them with biological activity that makes the tincture banned from use by Olympic competitors (http://bjsm.bmj.com on April 29, 2014). I don’t know how these steroids are absorbed by skin, nose epithelium, lungs, but I’m wondering if excessive application of musk tincture produces hirsutism?

    I would not include signature odorants into the category of pheromones for the technical reason that it broadens too much the definition of pheromones. I’m afraid that any contributing chemical to BO can be named ‘pheromone’ if it’s produced by commensal bacteria and carry information about the producer. In my opinion that is bad since the notion ‘pheromone’ will eventually become meaningless. On a lighter note, consider for example, that 3M2H carries information about the personal hygiene habits of the producer, and indole and skatole will signal the same, in addition to Don’t! It will be easy to argue that all these signals evolved, so are even more ‘pheromones’.
    Again (just joking), Indole & skatole will also signal a diet rich in fish and meat, ammonia & hydrogen sulfide may signal beans, while a preponderance of thiols and sulphides signals sauerkraut.
    Now, for a hunter-gatherer lady that has to pick a mate, future food provision is of tremendous importance, as well as information about the candidates’ potential to provide high quality food. For which of them will her selection go? Hint: chimpanzee females trade sex for meat.
    Finally I device a survey in which I ask about the preference for perfumes with a background note of civet vs. DMS.

    On a pessimistic vibe, I found a paper of this kind, and more are coming.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Hmm.. Not sure I'm brave enough to put Spikenard in my sandals.. It could turn out to be quite a nuisance in my office. Thanks for pointing out the differences between Valerian and Spikenard, though. I always liked the latter better, because it smelled more like old wood. But I guess I will give the former a trial. The only use I've found for it till now was treating insomnia..

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    maybe add a small amount of Cistus oil

  13. #43

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    trans-3-methyl-2-hexenoic is a chemical in human sweat. it's described as fruity gone off and cheesy. While this chemical is not very available you could simulate with some ethyl acetate and maybe butyl lactaate. Most perfumers also have the aldehyde nonanal which is part of sweat also. This is the chemical responsible for old person smell but it is present in all sweat of all ages. I also smell lots of sweat in adition to the bad notes as musky, skin, metallic and salty. So aurelion, iso e super. clonal and lovage? I could actually see a combo of all of the above added to a leather accord, lemon and lots of resins and it would be quite attractive to me.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    In my limited knowledge, I was gonna say cumin too. I bought a bottle because I've loved the smell since I was a kid. But yeah, there's a real BO note to it. And it lasts ages.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Macaul View Post
    Yes! Clary Sage is definitely a good male sweat note (in my opinion)
    I have some clary EO. All I get from it is "pine disinfectant" though. Not what I was expecting and it feels a bit redundant seeing I have pine and cypress too. I was disappointed with it. Am I doing it wrong?

  16. #46

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    I have some clary EO. All I get from it is "pine disinfectant" though. Not what I was expecting and it feels a bit redundant seeing I have pine and cypress too. I was disappointed with it. Am I doing it wrong?
    Could be that the quality is wrong. Clary Sage should be herbal, powdery and dry. It works well with Lavender, Sage, Armoise and Bergamot. It is a useful addition to Fougeres.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    It was from an eBay shop. I did wonder if if there had been a mixup but I wouldn't know at this stage. In the same order I got vetiver and cedar, both of which I thought were wrong at first. I thought the vetiver was patchouli and the cedar was all wrong. Turns out I was accustomed to Virginian and this was atlas and the vetiver's differences from patchouli became more apparent over time. So as for the clary, at this point I was willing to just put it down to me knowing very little about fragrances.

    I lasts a lot longer than pine and cypress on a strip, that much I've noticed. By "powdery" do you mean sort of sweet and "talcy" like benzoin? It definitely seems more tree than herb to me though.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    It was from an eBay shop. I did wonder if if there had been a mixup but I wouldn't know at this stage. In the same order I got vetiver and cedar, both of which I thought were wrong at first. I thought the vetiver was patchouli and the cedar was all wrong. Turns out I was accustomed to Virginian and this was atlas and the vetiver's differences from patchouli became more apparent over time. So as for the clary, at this point I was willing to just put it down to me knowing very little about fragrances.

    I lasts a lot longer than pine and cypress on a strip, that much I've noticed. By "powdery" do you mean sort of sweet and "talcy" like benzoin? It definitely seems more tree than herb to me though.
    No it is nothing like Benzoin, nor does Clary Sage smell sweet (IMO). It is dry and powdery, almost a rough smell, textured. More like Lavender mixed with Ambroxan ( and that is far away from reality).

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    It was from an eBay shop.
    Many of my early career ebay EO purchases, particularly from WF Med had to be tossed for being too low quality.
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  20. #50

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    These were from one called Mother Nature's Goodies. I also buy from Mystic Moments (for absolutes). TBH I did half expect such suppliers to be... not quite bang on the mark. Of course I was aware that this was just a starting point. For now my only experience is these and ones from Holland & Barrett.

    They smell nice enough to me but I have a very limited frame of reference at this point in time. They could be way off for all I know.

    I'll have to experience the proper stuff before I know for sure.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    These were from one called Mother Nature's Goodies. I also buy from Mystic Moments (for absolutes). TBH I did half expect such suppliers to be... not quite bang on the mark. Of course I was aware that this was just a starting point. For now my only experience is these and ones from Holland & Barrett.

    They smell nice enough to me but I have a very limited frame of reference at this point in time. They could be way off for all I know.

    I'll have to experience the proper stuff before I know for sure.

    If you are USA based, start buying at least from Liberty Naturals, and Camden Grey. Their products are the lowest cost of better suppliers. Even better suppliers are Perfumer Supply House, Perfumers Apprentice, Creating Perfume.com, Eden Botanicals, White Lotus Aromatics, the Perfumery, AV-AT, and of course there are others too...

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  22. #52

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    I'm UK-based but I'll have to start looking into new suppliers. Thanks.

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    As the medical person here, a little biological background: The human body is covered with sweat glands. MOST excrete salt water with small amounts of waste products and electrolytes. very little odor. The APOCRINE glands in the armpits, groin, peri-anal area, and around the areola of the breasts secrete a more oily sweat. This of itself doesn't have much odor, but reacts with skin bacteria to produce a warm sweaty odor. Human male axillary odors consist of C6 to C11 aliphatic acids, with (E)-3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid being the most common. As Mr. Ruskin said, much depends on diet,and length of time it is left to "ferment" A clean human apocrine sweat can be attractive, and it has been argued that before we evolved into buying women drinks in bars, we were attracted by pheromones in the apocrine sweat. The book Perfumery: The psychology and biology of fragrance By Steve Van Toller, George H. Dodd has a fascinating discussion of sweat and perfumery.

    Trivia fact: Breasts are simply modified sweat glands, when you drink milk, it is really just modified sweat. The glands in the ears are also modified sweat glands, and produce a more sticky sweat...earwax!
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  24. #54

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    The Chemistry of a Football Shirt

    http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/08/...ootball-shirt/

    I want to know *WHERE* the scent of the football shirt is...!

    :-)

    PK
    Can you tincture a sweaty football shirt?
    Last edited by Con-Li; 14th October 2016 at 10:37 AM. Reason: typo

  25. #55
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    As the medical person here, a little biological background: The human body is covered with sweat glands. MOST excrete salt water with small amounts of waste products and electrolytes. very little odor. The APOCRINE glands in the armpits, groin, peri-anal area, and around the areola of the breasts secrete a more oily sweat. This of itself doesn't have much odor, but reacts with skin bacteria to produce a warm sweaty odor. Human male axillary odors consist of C6 to C11 aliphatic acids, with (E)-3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid being the most common. As Mr. Ruskin said, much depends on diet,and length of time it is left to "ferment" A clean human apocrine sweat can be attractive, and it has been argued that before we evolved into buying women drinks in bars, we were attracted by pheromones in the apocrine sweat. The book Perfumery: The psychology and biology of fragrance By Steve Van Toller, George H. Dodd has a fascinating discussion of sweat and perfumery.

    Trivia fact: Breasts are simply modified sweat glands, when you drink milk, it is really just modified sweat. The glands in the ears are also modified sweat glands, and produce a more sticky sweat...earwax!
    I've often wished there were a clap button, or a thumbs up response available so that I can applaud someone's response. Thanks Possum...
    Paul Kiler
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    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    I've often wished there were a clap button, or a thumbs up response available so that I can applaud someone's response. Thanks Possum...
    You're welcome!
    Last edited by Possum-Pie; 14th October 2016 at 06:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Interesting quest you have.

    If I would want to create such an accord, I would as well start with cumin eo, but while the eo to me actually smells spicy and far less sweaty than the powdered spice itself, it would not be enough for me. I whould add a tiny bit of clove eo to make it warmer and because I do think it has aspects in common with armpits ( there's a saying in German, not very often used but it's there, that would translate something like 'he(/she) grows a clove field under his(/her) arms' for a person with strong armpit smell). Further I would add castoreum abs for a bit of animal leather funk, and a musk in the background, shangrilade or tonquitone (the first smells sweeter and a bit cleaner to me with 'white musk aspects' that aren't mentioned anywhere but that I do perceive, but this could very well be just my untrained nose), but not very much. A not too strong dry woody and balsamic note like amyris eo would be a nice way to round it up a bit, at least to my very beginner nose.
    But this is theoretical, to put this in a blend is another thing, I have no ideas how these materials would interact and react. The perfumers here have much better knowledge.

    Edit:
    Honey absolute may be usefull as well. It can smell pretty dirty and animalic, far from what you put in your tea or on your toast.
    The synthetic perfume materials are supposed to enhance and support the use of natural raw materials, not to replace them, nor in any way to beat them off the market. The synthetic chemicals present a certain challenge to nature, and the perfumer can assist nature in her fight by utilizing the synthetic materials to the advantage of the natural raw materials. (S. Arctander)
    Currently wearing: Snuff by Elsa Schiaparelli

  28. #58

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    All this thread is very interesting but i don't see a possible use of this sweat male underarm accord if not for some funny joke. What would you use it for ?

  29. #59

    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pierpaolo72 View Post
    All this thread is very interesting but i don't see a possible use of this sweat male underarm accord if not for some funny joke. What would you use it for ?
    I guess some women like the smell of a sweaty man, so maybe some guys would like to enhance that aroma - and perhaps dress it up with some other notes.

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    Default Re: Male Underarm Sweat Accord

    Awhile Back, When my sample was a little newer, Aldron @100% smelled just like 3 weeks unwashed homeless sweaty man, But today, my sample does not smell so.

    But for sweat, I highly recommend Cumin, Cuminaldehyde (@PSH), Aldron, Civet, Animalid or Animalis bases, Oud, and 5A-ANDROST-16-EN-3A-OL.

    My Dirty Rose Oud Extreme perfume has been compared to a sweaty Wrestlers Jockstrap, so I know a little bit about your quest... HA!

    PK
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    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.




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