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  1. #31

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Also, I see that andym has done a spectacular job in the other thread of differentiating a brand associated with custom and labor intensive work from a brand that tries to ride on that history while selling mass market items that are commoditized. If the perfumer works for a third party, earns a set salary with bonus paid no matter the prestige of the purchasing brand, and sells work to any and all comers, then where is the corporate knowledge that affects the quality between brands? According to Fragrantica, Olivier Polge and Dominic Ropion each have fragrances produced by 37 different brands, so how does one claim superiority or otherwise jsutify price differences when the same craftsperson designed the scents, the same chemical manufacturers provide the scents, and they are produced on the same scale (when they are produced on the same scale)?

    Eh, I think Kaern's post was a better way to close this out anyway, as it can apply to arguing on the internet as well

    a foolish or worthless form of self-indulgence:
    "the luxury of self-pity."

  2. #32

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    I say Luxury because you can live without it.

  3. #33

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    Again with this ridiculous notion. Hey, Curve is a luxury brand, just check out the price of the Imperial Majesty edition of Clive Christian. Justin Bieber Someday at ~$40 a bottle broke some sort of sales record in 2011, so that must be the height of luxury.
    Visit a third world country where people would give their first-born for a piece of bread, and then come back and tell me perfume isn't a luxury item. I'll bet that sometime after bathing in rain-fed, muddy river water, but just before contracting cryptosporidiosis, you'll find your acutely unusual view of what constitutes a "luxury" is the least of your concerns out where basic hygiene and nutrition is a challenge. Maybe volunteer to help the people in Africa suffering from Ebola.

  4. #34

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    lux·u·ry noun \ˈlək-sh(ə-)rē, -zh(ə-)rē\
    : a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth

    : something that is expensive and not necessary

    : something that is helpful or welcome and that is not usually or always available
    plural lux·u·ries

    Full Definition of LUXURY

    1
    archaic : lechery, lust
    2
    : a condition of abundance or great ease and comfort : sumptuous environment <lived in luxury>
    3
    a : something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary <one of life's luxuries>
    b : an indulgence in something that provides pleasure, satisfaction, or ease <had the luxury of rejecting a handful of job offers — Terri Minsky>





    Yes

  5. #35

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    To varying extents I do ya of course. I mean lets just think about a common stereo type of something like poor people=smell rich people=smell like perfume. I think thats something thats put in everyones brain from cartoons etc at a very young age. Of course as you get older obviously fragrances are much more accessible. But yea to varying extents I definitely agree. And there are certain fragrances period that even in my mind I just think of as "rich peoples" cologne period.

  6. #36

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    Maybe volunteer to help the people in Africa suffering from Ebola.
    ok

    You, uh, ever wonder where hyrax, civet, opoponax, frankincense, or myrrh come from?

    I surely do appreciate your incredibly myopic and racist view of the peoples of the African continent, who exchange children for bread. Throwing your idiotic ass on ignore now, bye.

  7. #37

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    ok

    You, uh, ever wonder where hyrax, civet, opoponax, frankincense, or myrrh come from?

    I surely do appreciate your incredibly myopic and racist view of the peoples of the African continent, who exchange children for bread. Throwing your idiotic ass on ignore now, bye.
    And we have a sore loser.
    Last edited by HankHarvey; 15th August 2014 at 09:19 PM.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    You both had your say, now please back on topic.
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity.
    There is no cure for curiosity."
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  9. #39
    david's Avatar
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
    Absolutely it is. Why would anyone ever speak in terms of luxury goods or items unless they were speaking in terms consistent with the currently used economics definition of the term?... That is, a luxury item is one whose demand increases as disposable income increases. Nothing more, nothing less. What's the point in overthinking this?
    Absolutely not. These days fragrance is available to everyone regardless of income, (thank God !!). In Berlin recently I witnessed Pino Sylvestre 30ml edt for sale for in retail perfumeries for €2. The french company Bic manufacture a fragrance in the form of their famous Bic lighters which you can buy retail for €1 - less than a bottle of Heinz tomato ketchup, and their fragrances smell really good !!!.
    Fragrance exists on all levels, for all budgets. So fragrance in general can no longer be considered luxury, because by definition it caters to all budgets and does exist retail, for the same price as normal food/ household products.
    Last edited by david; 15th August 2014 at 10:12 PM.
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  10. #40

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Luxury is most obvious when it is not available. There are vast swaths of the populated parts of our planet where perfume is not easily found or had. Ironically that also coincides with the things Lomaniac was claiming were not luxuries, like nail clippers and soap. Hard to believe in a Western mindset, but to many people the idea of scenting one's self is a luxury. The price is a factor at ANY price for struggling poor.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    Visit a third world country where people would give their first-born for a piece of bread, and then come back and tell me perfume isn't a luxury item. I'll bet that sometime after bathing in rain-fed, muddy river water, but just before contracting cryptosporidiosis, you'll find your acutely unusual view of what constitutes a "luxury" is the least of your concerns out where basic hygiene and nutrition is a challenge. Maybe volunteer to help the people in Africa suffering from Ebola.
    A ridiculously unfair argument. To people who suffer in these countires, even a bowl of rice is a luxury item. Everything in order to live and survive is a luxury item. In this thread I am sure the original poster was not referring to third world countries ?
    Perhaps the OP could answer this question ?
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    This stems from a debate on the male fragrance board. The meaning of luxury varies somewhat by application. While fragrance can be listed as a luxury good due to the lack of physiological or safety needs addressed by these items, luxury also has a different connotation in discussion of price discrimination and social pecking order. There seems to be obfuscation in use at times, and I should have appropriately addressed what I knew would be a sticking point. While not the one who brought up Ferrari cars or Kiton clothing, I responded by stating that fragrance was not a luxury good on the whole, in light of such commentary and attempted parallels while one of the largest and least differentiated personal care corporations was being discussed. I still hold to that, as cars and clothing do not carry the social connotation of highly luxurious items in the first world. The identification of such brands, along with specific mentions of artisinal and independent perfumes, undermined the discussion on corporate-owned fragrance brands, which is hardly "luxurious" in its high availability and relatively low price.

    Kiton would be considered a high-end luxury clothing brand. Stafford at JC Penney would likely not, yet you can get a lounge suit made by either. A lounge suit itself could be considered a luxury item, but the real point is that there is a massive price difference along with a huge difference in perceived and measurable quality. To discuss the value provided by a Stafford suit by mentioning the build quality of a Kiton would be madness. Television is in no way required for survival. A 73 inch 3D set with 4K resolution would be considered relatively extravagant at this point in time. A 9 inch black & white set powered by D cell batteries and only receiving OTA analog signals would not. Yet, they are both televisions, an neither is required for day to day living. There exist a difference. Does this apply to personal fragrance?

    Is Axe body spray a luxury item in any context, or is there a difference depending on prior statements and the heart of the discussion? I believe this plays a key role in discussing fragrance, as apparently there are performance measures that do not correlate strictly with price, and there seems to be some confusion over the price and specific ingredients used, as they seem to appear in brands across the price continuum. Since there are dopplegangers of smell, at least to casual observers, does that make all fragrance luxury items because there can be, and at times is, little to no difference in performance and possibly even quality, despite price difference? Or, is there still a higher level of luxury with a measure of extravagance that cannot be ascribed to products produced copiously and continuously and competing in markets based on price? The idea of what is extravagance is based on the quality of life for specific cultures. Additionally, "luxury goods" are demanded more as income rises, with a finer distinction than normal and inferior goods. This apparently is not the case with fragrance, as fragranced items are available at the lowest price levels, and this is where the greatest amount of odorant chemicals are used.
    Thanks for this interesting thread. This is a difficult one. A fascinating question !
    The world has changed so much and so fast.
    Technically, when a government slaps on the 30% tax it is deemed a luxury item. On this point I would agree with lpp.
    However, nowadays fragrance is on offer at every level to everyone. Be it in the form of indian produced oil based fragrances available for $1, or outstanding copies, outsripping the original fragrance, (see various test magazines) such as Suddenly Madame Glamour, manufactured by the discount supermarket chain Lidl - available for $5.
    My point is that today, I am sure that every person in the western world owns probably more than one frangrance. Be it in the form of a Gillette body spray or a Faberge edt or a more costly brand.
    So my answer, due to price accessibility and per household/ person ownership would most definitely be NO. Fragrance is no longer a luxury item.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    A ridiculously unfair argument. To people who suffer in these countires, even a bowl of rice is a luxury item. Everything in order to live and survive is a luxury item. In this thread I am sure the original poster was not referring to third world countries ?
    Perhaps the OP could answer this question ?
    No. As Lomaniac already pointed out above, food is not a luxury item.

    But since you're following my point, if you're saying that food is a luxury to the starving, what does that make perfume? And so it's a super-luxury to the super poor to have and wear perfume, but not a luxury to those of us who can afford it? A Lamborghini is a luxury that the rich enjoy. A $5 Zippo perfume on discount is a luxury you and I and most middle-class people can enjoy, if they choose to. And it is a luxury the ultra-poor, who number in the hundreds of millions, can enjoy only if someone is kind enough to give it to them. Nothing unfair about that. That's reality.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Caviar.

    All kinds at all prices... available at Costco even.

    Do some people eat it before or instead of paying their electric or heating bills? Maybe, but that's aberrant behavior. I'm not going to waste any of my time discussing it. Most all people that consume caviar will consume and/or demand more caviar the more their income increases.

    Do some people buy fragrance before or instead of paying their electric or heating bills? Probably. It doesn't matter whether the frag is cheap or expensive, easy or hard to find... it would be the same aberrant type behavior.

    I've got a challenge for mr. lomaniac: In 25 words or less, what was/is your point?

    edit: by 'fragrance' I mean bottles of perfume, cologne, etc., not 'fragranced items'
    Last edited by DuNezDeBuzier; 16th August 2014 at 10:57 AM. Reason: meaning of 'fragrance'
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  15. #45

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Anything vital to life and sustinence is not a luxury. Anything over that is. Whatever the price or quality.

    The argument of cost equating to luxury is a luxurious thought process indulged in by those who have no struggle with the former.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  16. #46
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Absolutely
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  17. #47
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    Anything vital to life and sustinence is not a luxury. Anything over that is. Whatever the price or quality.

    The argument of cost equating to luxury is a luxurious thought process indulged in by those who have no struggle with the former.
    Hi mumsy !
    Respectfully I would disagree. I am speaking now in terms of the western world.
    How many people think of a motor car as a luxury item ? Let's be honest now. Hardly anyone, though it's hardly a neccesity to survive. There are alternatives, such as bicycles and buses. When the first model T Fords came rolling off the assembly lines they were probably at the time considered luxury mass produced items, but times have changed and today hardly anyone thinks of a Fiat Panda as a luxury item. Our standards and "fun bucks" have increased so much.
    The word luxury is certainly subjective. I live in a house that does not have running water or electricity. From my standpoint water is precious and therefore to me considered something of a luxury item. The water I wash my clothes in, is recycled to become the water that flushes my toilette. Other members have used as examples...paying water bills theoretically takes presidence over buying fragrance. I agree, but think it doesn't automatically therefore deem a bottle of fragrance a luxury item. The term luxury is just as subjective as the topic of fragrance.
    The point that really sways me to say that fragrance is not a luxury item in todays western world is the fact that it can be bought so cheaply and is so available everywhere and at every level.
    Last edited by david; 16th August 2014 at 04:16 PM.
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  18. #48

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Yes. If you would be poor you would spend nothing/very little on fragrances, if you're rich you may spend a lot (if interested in them), thus perfumes are a typical luxury good.

  19. #49

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Hi mumsy !
    Respectfully I would disagree. I am speaking now in terms of the western world.
    How many people think of a motor car as a luxury item ? Let's be honest now. Hardly anyone, though it's hardly a neccesity to survive. There are alternatives, such as bicycles and buses. When the first model T Fords came rolling off the assembly lines they were probably at the time considered luxury mass produced items, but times have changed and today hardly anyone thinks of a Fiat Panda as a luxury item. Our standards and "fun bucks" have increased so much.
    The word luxury is certainly subjective. I live in a house that does not have running water or electricity. From my standpoint water is precious and therefore to me considered something of a luxury item. The water I wash my clothes in, is recycled to become the water that flushes my toilette. Other members have used as examples...paying water bills theoretically takes presidence over buying fragrance. I agree, but think it doesn't automatically therefore deem a bottle of fragrance a luxury item. The term luxury is just as subjective as the topic of fragrance.
    The point that really sways me to say that fragrance is not a luxury item in todays western world is the fact that it can be bought so cheaply and is so available everywhere and at every level.
    I'm inclined to agree in the real world. It is the word luxury that is the subjective word.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  20. #50

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Absolutely not. These days fragrance is available to everyone regardless of income, (thank God !!). In Berlin recently I witnessed Pino Sylvestre 30ml edt for sale for in retail perfumeries for €2. The french company Bic manufacture a fragrance in the form of their famous Bic lighters which you can buy retail for €1 - less than a bottle of Heinz tomato ketchup, and their fragrances smell really good !!!.
    Fragrance exists on all levels, for all budgets. So fragrance in general can no longer be considered luxury, because by definition it caters to all budgets and does exist retail, for the same price as normal food/ household products.
    That was one special offer though for one fragrance out of thousands. Also cheap chic Berlin...they probably had to lower the price so much to sell any of it

  21. #51
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    'Luxury' as a concept originally centered on exclusivity has lost much much if its meaning over the years, with 'masstige' brands jostling for space with the more prestigious ones. The mighty credit card has made many things more accessible to consumers though not necessarily more affordable. Personally I don't really care for the distinction. Fragrance is just a fragrance.
    This.
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  22. #52

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I'm inclined to agree in the real world. It is the word luxury that is the subjective word.
    Terms like "real world" have to be applied to the entire world, not just Western middle and upper-class lifestyles.

  23. #53
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    Wink Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    That was one special offer though for one fragrance out of thousands. Also cheap chic Berlin...they probably had to lower the price so much to sell any of it
    LOL !! Honestly, I'm not really such a cheapskate !!!
    ....but I do tend to steer clear of those niches...
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  24. #54

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Yes, it is. An affordable luxury indeed but not necessary to survive

  25. #55
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    Appreciate those responses. I do want to say I am not questioning the quality of ingredients or product safety of B&BW or most others, but do not believe there is much opulence associated with certain brands. It actually feeds into the idea, a luxurious smell does not have to reflect extravagance in the price relative to other goods. While consumption may go down in poorer economic times, I don't think that in and of itself makes it different from normal goods, not just luxury items. Food is a necessity, but there are normal and inferior foodstuffs, and consumption of each varies with income.
    It also depends on location, the demographic, etc. I remember when, as a teen, I found Victoria's Secret body care to be a luxury. I couldn't afford any of it.

    In Asia, people pay a high price or ask friends who visit the U.S. to buy them bath and body works items because these appear to be luxurious goods to them.

    My Filipino cousin begged me to get her $20 boots from Charlotte Russe. She thought the brand was "posh".

    For every item out there, there probably is some luxury equivalent of it.

    http://firstwefeast.com/eat/the-most...rs-in-america/

    To answer your question: yes, fragrance is a luxury good to me.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    I think that many items that are "not necessary to survive" are not necessarily "luxury".....
    Last edited by david; 18th August 2014 at 10:21 PM.
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  27. #57
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    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    IMHO, yap. You can live without them.

  28. #58

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    I think that many items that are "not necessary to survive" are not necessarily "luxury".....
    Actually that's exactly what luxury is.

  29. #59

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    I would say so, I put it on par with fine wines, cigars & shoes!!

  30. #60

    Default Re: is fragrance a luxury good?

    For me fragrances are a luxury in this order:

    1. Cuban Cigars
    2. Fine Scotch/Bourbon
    3. Fragrances
    Currently wearing: L'Occitan by L'Occitane

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