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  1. #91

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.
    You might consider reading what I actually wrote before writing up such posts (for example, in what number post on this thread do I say that vintage is superior?). It sounds like you have read someone's blog (I won't name it) and are just parroting what that person said.

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.
    +1.....
    Last edited by Poohdini; 20th August 2014 at 08:05 AM.

  4. #94
    Basenotes Junkie herbert7890's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I challenge you to put your
    Creeds to constant 95+ weather for a few years and then come back to this thread...... You will be having a similar experience as me..... No scent. You guys think everyone lives at your temperature. My weather is probably equivalent of you leaving your perfumes in the car all the time. I dont even have to say anything else.


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  5. #95

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I lay claim to having a large collection of vintage so make of that what you will.... Each to their own. Over and out.
    Currently wearing: Montecristo by Masque

  6. #96
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I think that many are bouncing around the original question and the waters have become muddied with the question of 'vintage'

    It is quite easy for me as I believe I have an example of exactly what the OP is asking. I have a bottle of Creed MI. I have had it a long time. It doesn't smell like it used to. I think that it may have spoiled.

    I am not comparing one batch to another, I am not comparing how it smells on a day to day basis, I am not suggesting that a 'vintage' version is better/worse than my bottle

    Again, it is simple for me - bought a bottle of MI, still own it, I think that the smell has altered for the worse - does this class as going bad?

    And I offer the same thing again - I would love to confirm if my view is correct - I am willing to send a sample to anyone with experience of MI to see if my beliefs are correct. I am willing to accept that it is my perception of the scent that has changed but I honestly believe that the scent has gone off whilst in the bottle
    Currently wearing: Thirty-three by Ex Idolo

  7. #97
    Basenotes Junkie herbert7890's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    I think that many are bouncing around the original question and the waters have become muddied with the question of 'vintage'

    It is quite easy for me as I believe I have an example of exactly what the OP is asking. I have a bottle of Creed MI. I have had it a long time. It doesn't smell like it used to. I think that it may have spoiled.

    I am not comparing one batch to another, I am not comparing how it smells on a day to day basis, I am not suggesting that a 'vintage' version is better/worse than my bottle

    Again, it is simple for me - bought a bottle of MI, still own it, I think that the smell has altered for the worse - does this class as going bad?

    And I offer the same thing again - I would love to confirm if my view is correct - I am willing to send a sample to anyone with experience of MI to see if my beliefs are correct. I am willing to accept that it is my perception of the scent that has changed but I honestly believe that the scent has gone off whilst in the bottle
    I totally believe you, as my aventus died too. People here are forgetting that a perfume can be "vintage" or purchased 30 years ago, but if it has been at 75 degree weather or lower all the time, the timing factor is probably irrelevant. Place your bottles at 100 degree weather for those same 30 years and tell me it has not turned........... This is leading me to believe that proper storage is the most important aspect and time aging is irrelevant if proper storage has been followed.



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  8. #98

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    I think that many are bouncing around the original question and the waters have become muddied with the question of 'vintage'

    It is quite easy for me as I believe I have an example of exactly what the OP is asking. I have a bottle of Creed MI. I have had it a long time. It doesn't smell like it used to. I think that it may have spoiled.

    I am not comparing one batch to another, I am not comparing how it smells on a day to day basis, I am not suggesting that a 'vintage' version is better/worse than my bottle

    Again, it is simple for me - bought a bottle of MI, still own it, I think that the smell has altered for the worse - does this class as going bad?

    And I offer the same thing again - I would love to confirm if my view is correct - I am willing to send a sample to anyone with experience of MI to see if my beliefs are correct. I am willing to accept that it is my perception of the scent that has changed but I honestly believe that the scent has gone off whilst in the bottle
    This sounds like you are just perceiving it differently, which is something I have found to be very common. You are not very specific, unlike the "burnt sugar" claim, which makes sense. You don't even say if it seems to be mostly a top notes issue or a drydown one. In fact at least one blogger has claimed that GIT needs to age after perhaps half an ounce is used and for perhaps half a year before it reaches its prime, IIRC (not that I agree with this). The claim of something being "spoiled" should be used only when a scent smells awful to just about everyone, IMO. If you want to claim that a scent smells like rotten garbage in the summer heat, for instance, then that is quite a distance from saying it smells a bit different. In fact, there was a recent BN thread that discussed a couple of bottles found in a shipwreck that was about 150 years old, and one of the bottles smelled very bad, IIRC. That is not what apparently happens with the kinds of vintage scents usually discussed here or on similar sites, except perhaps with the rarest of exceptions. And how is it that the same people who demonstrate little appreciation of vintage drydowns seem to be the ones who are making claims about "spoiled" scents? There is something amiss here, but I think I have already made my opinion known about the factors that are at work here, and I just hope people like yourself will sell me your "spoiled" Creeds at prices considerably higher than one would expect for something like spoiled food, if anyone would even consider buying spoiled food.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 08:35 AM.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by herbert7890 View Post
    I totally believe you, as my aventus died too. People here are forgetting that a perfume can be "vintage" or purchased 30 years ago, but if it has been at 75 degree weather or lower all the time, the timing factor is probably irrelevant. Place your bottles at 100 degree weather for those same 30 years and tell me it has not turned........... This is leading me to believe that proper storage is the most important aspect and time aging is irrelevant if proper storage has been followed.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well this is easy to test. I will take one of my dollar store scents and do what you think will "spoil" it and then we will see what happens. I have two bottles of "our version of Paco Rabanne PH," so one will serve as the "control." Just let me know exactly what to do with it.

    NOTE: I'll go $40 for a 3/4 or more full 4 oz. but "spoiled" Aventus bottle. Would anyone outbid me on it?
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 08:49 AM.

  10. #100

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    We should take this to court.

    In the end it's JUST about fragrances.

    Most people state that if the scent is stored properly they are usable for many, many years.

    Some state that the scent gets better like some wines I guess.

    Other state that fragrances only go bad if they aren't taking good care of.

    Only some bottles change a little bit after a few years even if they were stored properly.

    Unfortunately there seem to be some exceptions where people are saying their well stored fragrance went bad after a few years.

    This is how I see all the posts in this thread.

    Have a nice day y'all!

    TLS

  11. #101

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    You might consider reading what I actually wrote before writing up such posts (for example, in what number post on this thread do I say that vintage is superior?). It sounds like you have read someone's blog (I won't name it) and are just parroting what that person said.
    I have read your posts and your blog. I can't find it now, but just a day or two ago I was looking through some old thread, and it was you arguing, apparently for the Nth time now that I've done some googling, about how vintage is richer, deeper, more complex, and just outright superior to anything modern, especially niche. You also must have a lot of practice typing one handed, because you can't seem to participate in a thread without patting yourself on the back about how your every assumption is always rights. The level of confirmation bias you suffer from is on a scale barely comprehensible.

    *****

    And despite these vagaries, vintages are the ones I reach for perhaps 90% of the time these days. These scents possess certain exceptional qualities that no longer exist in recent releases, even niche, and that whatever slight changes may have occurred over time (beyond the top notes, of which I haven’t studied in much detail), these scents are what makes this “hobby” worth pursuing for me (I’ve yet to encounter an old bottle that turned to “dreck”).

    Niche and recent designer rarely if ever approach what vintage does,

    Get it while it's still cheap and laugh at those paying $100+ for small bottles of niche incense frags !

    Speaking in the context of a very general notion of the differences between niche and designer, I rarely reach for my niche, and I've got plenty, and this is also true of recent designer. I'd rather wear a bunch of "women's" scents (vintage designer) than niche, in fact.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/375...vintage-scents

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/236...uot-frags-POLL

    and I'm sure it goes on for many more years and hundreds of thousands of words.

  12. #102

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    I have read your posts and your blog. I can't find it now, but just a day or two ago I was looking through some old thread, and it was you arguing, apparently for the Nth time now that I've done some googling, about how vintage is richer, deeper, more complex, and just outright superior to anything modern, especially niche. You also must have a lot of practice typing one handed, because you can't seem to participate in a thread without patting yourself on the back about how your every assumption is always rights. The level of confirmation bias you suffer from is on a scale barely comprehensible.

    *****

    And despite these vagaries, vintages are the ones I reach for perhaps 90% of the time these days. These scents possess certain exceptional qualities that no longer exist in recent releases, even niche, and that whatever slight changes may have occurred over time (beyond the top notes, of which I haven’t studied in much detail), these scents are what makes this “hobby” worth pursuing for me (I’ve yet to encounter an old bottle that turned to “dreck”).

    Niche and recent designer rarely if ever approach what vintage does,

    Get it while it's still cheap and laugh at those paying $100+ for small bottles of niche incense frags !

    Speaking in the context of a very general notion of the differences between niche and designer, I rarely reach for my niche, and I've got plenty, and this is also true of recent designer. I'd rather wear a bunch of "women's" scents (vintage designer) than niche, in fact.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/375...vintage-scents

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/236...uot-frags-POLL

    and I'm sure it goes on for many more years and hundreds of thousands of words.
    I generally find vintage preferable but I have often said that if people like more recent releases that's great for them, and I like some myself. You are going off topic on a personal attack, but BN readers are mostly quite smart, I believe, so have at it and see where it gets you. I pointed out that one can read countless reviews and posts from people who appreciate vintage, with hardly any mention of what I view as "spoilage" (and how most people conceive of that term) - anyone can go and read these for themselves to see that it is not just my word. In fact, I am very surprised that there isn't a lot more mention of "spoilage" because of how the first few minutes of some vintage can seem like "burnt sugar," as one person phrased it. These facts, along with rising prices for vintage on ebay, are more than enough evidence, IMO (for no drydown spoilage), even if one were to delete everything I have ever written about scents online! There was also a GC/MS study of several Old Spice formulations posted on the Badger and Blade site, which showed very good preservation (certainly no spoilage), and what do we see here? People claiming spoilage for Aventus and MI. Do I even need to say "I rest my case?" LOL.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 09:10 AM.

  13. #103
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I generally find vintage preferable but I have often said that if people like more recent releases that's great for them, and I like some myself. You are going off topic on a personal attack, but BN readers are mostly quite smart, I believe, so have at it and see where it gets you. I pointed out that one can read countless reviews and posts from people who appreciate vintage, with hardly any mention of what I view as "spoilage" (and how most people conceive of that term) - anyone can go and read these for themselves to see that it is not just my word. In fact, I am very surprised that there isn't a lot more mention of "spoilage" because of how the first few minutes of some vintage can seem like "burnt sugar," as one person phrased it. These facts, along with rising prices for vintage on ebay, are more than enough evidence, IMO (for no drydown spoilage), even if one were to delete everything I have ever written about scents online! There was also a GC/MS study of several Old Spice formulations posted on the Badger and Blade site, which showed very good preservation (certainly no spoilage), and what do we see here? People claiming spoilage for Aventus and MI. Do I even need to say "I rest my case?" LOL.
    You are right Bigsly - I have just revisited my bottle of MI and can confirm that the problem is that I don't know what I am talking about.

    I have taken my nose outside and given it a good talking too - hopefully I will not be as nave in the future to even suggest a fragrance has gone bad
    Currently wearing: Thirty-three by Ex Idolo

  14. #104

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    You are right Bigsly - I have just revisited my bottle of MI and can confirm that the problem is that I don't know what I am talking about.

    I have taken my nose outside and given it a good talking too - hopefully I will not be as nave in the future to even suggest a fragrance has gone bad
    No, the problem is that you were not specific. Nobody is saying that you don't perceive a difference. However, you have not told us whether you perceive it in the top notes, the drydown, or the whole scent progression. Nor have you given us any idea how "bad" this "spoilage" was. Your statement is something I consider to be good evidence to support the notion that there isn't spoilage (as most conceive of the term), but readers can make up their own minds. I just want to get some offers from people like yourself, but instead I have a feeling I will keep reading about how someone threw a bottle of Aventus in the garbage. That does not sound credible to me at all, but again, readers can make up their own minds.

  15. #105

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    'Your statement that your fragrance spoiled is something I consider to be good evidence that fragrances don't spoil.'

    Here's a tip, a condescending attitude generally only works when you don't come across as completely off your gourd.

  16. #106
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    No, the problem is that you were not specific. Nobody is saying that you don't perceive a difference. However, you have not told us whether you perceive it in the top notes, the drydown, or the whole scent progression. Nor have you given us any idea how "bad" this "spoilage" was. Your statement is something I consider to be good evidence to support the notion that there isn't spoilage (as most conceive of the term), but readers can make up their own minds. I just want to get some offers from people like yourself, but instead I have a feeling I will keep reading about how someone threw a bottle of Aventus in the garbage. That does not sound credible to me at all, but again, readers can make up their own minds.
    If you read my earlier posts you will see that I have mentioned what I believe to be wrong with the scent in that it has a dirty smell and isn't as bright as I remember it.

    I cant help but feel that your stance is that if I am unable to pick the exact notes that have altered then I must be wrong. For many on this board it is not possible to decipher exact notes at the best of times so to suggest that I must be wrong because I am unable to catalogue the exact elements of the scent that have changed is frankly insulting
    Currently wearing: Thirty-three by Ex Idolo

  17. #107

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.
    + 2. Very well said.

  18. #108
    Basenotes Junkie herbert7890's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    + 2. Very well said.
    +3. Thats why I made the 95+ dregree weather challenge. I could simplify it. Leave your personal favorite niche perfume inside your car for 2 years (to somewhat recreate the room temperature of Puerto Rico), then come back to this thread and post how great your fragrance smells!!

  19. #109

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I was going to keep my trap shut but it's impossible to watch quietly.

    Distillation occurs at much higher temperatures than air and that is what produces the fragrant oils in the first place. It is oxidisation that ruins a fragrance, not the temperature alone. If you didn't open the box and left it in the car for two years completely intact and in the box, it may well be perfectly alright.
    Currently wearing: Montecristo by Masque

  20. #110
    Basenotes Junkie herbert7890's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I was going to keep my trap shut but it's impossible to watch quietly.

    Distillation occurs at much higher temperatures than air and that is what produces the fragrant oils in the first place. It is oxidisation that ruins a fragrance, not the temperature alone. If you didn't open the box and left it in the car for two years completely intact and in the box, it may well be perfectly alright.

    What you said might be true, but for the purpose of any experiment, we have to make everything else as normal as possible (normal usage for a person in this case), which will be an open used bottle without the box, inside the car for 2 years. You don't expect normal people will buy a perfume and leave it there unopen foir 2 years, right?

  21. #111

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by herbert7890 View Post
    Leave your personal favorite niche perfume inside your car for 2 years (to somewhat recreate the room temperature of Puerto Rico), then come back to this thread and post how great your fragrance smells!!
    I think it's quite normal that your Aventus has turned under these conditions.

  22. #112

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I have an old bottle of L'Occitane's Eau du Contadour and I can't wear it, it now stinks of BO so I can't even use it up as a room atomiser.

  23. #113

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    I think it's quite normal that your Aventus has turned under these conditions.
    You already know and the experiment has yet to take place ;-)

  24. #114

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by themaleedit View Post
    I have an old bottle of L'Occitane's Eau du Contadour and I can't wear it, it now stinks of BO so I can't even use it up as a room atomiser.
    You left it in your car for how many years?

  25. #115

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    You already know and the experiment has yet to take place ;-)
    I have no reason to disbelieve his statement about Aventus going bad since it was stored in bad conditions.

  26. #116

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    I have no reason to disbelieve his statement about Aventus going bad since it was stored in bad conditions.
    It went bad in Puerto Rico heat. Dark, in a closet. The car thing is an experiment. Someone will put his bottle of Aventus in a car for 2 years and leave it that way. Sealed. In the sun.

  27. #117

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    The moral of the story is that in very hot countries only buy smaller bottles, decants and samples.....or keep them in a fridge. It also proves that terrible conditions ruin a fragrance. No surprises there.
    Currently wearing: Montecristo by Masque

  28. #118

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    It went bad in Puerto Rico heat. Dark, in a closet. The car thing is an experiment. Someone will put his bottle of Aventus in a car for 2 years and leave it that way. Sealed. In the sun.
    He compares the car thing with the Puerto Rico heat in the closet.
    So even if it was stored in a dark closet, the heat could easily destroy a fragrance.

  29. #119

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    He compares the car thing with the Puerto Rico heat in the closet.
    So even if it was stored in a dark closet, the heat could easily destroy a fragrance.
    I know...

  30. #120

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    There ought to be some papers on thermal stability or time/temp/moisture positions for aromachemicals, if someone has access to databases of scholarly articles on the subject. There are ISO standards for testing polymers with advanced aging through thermal stress, and similar tests for archival papers. Seems that, at at least at one time, a test of 72 hours at 100C was considered comparable to 20 years of normal storage for documents. That's a relatively large difference in time scale, so steam distillation is not a way to reduce concerns over degradation that takes place over years.

    One mistake in this discussion seems to be comparison to human perception of time and temperature, stating in an absolute if the useful life under certain circumstances is long or short. It simply is, and you have to adjust conditions because you aren't going to change natural laws. Room temperature varies by location, and it judged by what is comfortable for a person. The passage of time is also judged by human perception in memory and cycles of our own activities. What matters is the reaction rate and how time and temperature work together. At some point the compound would kick off as it reaches a threshold for degradation with a change in the percentage of the total volume being altered.

    Whether or not the box is opened and how much air is inside are only minor points when you would also need to know how much water is in the fragrance, how much oxygen is in the fragrance and not just the airspace, what the specific fragrance molecules are and their reaction rates, and more. Leaving a fragrance in a car would give wildly varying results. Is the car parked in the Arctic circle or Death Valley or Dallol Ethiopia (average temperature of 34.4 C/94 F) What color is the body and interior, are the windows tinted, how much ventilation is built into it, how much interior room is there, etc. Left in a car with windows closed in the same location where the fragrance was left in a house, the time needed reach the same level of degradation would be expected to be much shorter.

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