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  1. #61

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    If you think about it, you're probably never going to see a sale for something advertised as being spoiled. If the seller is dishonest they'll connveniently neglect to mention the spoilage. And if they're ethical about it they won't try to sell it, they'll just toss it or give it away. FYI it's usually only Green Valley that ever gets any mention of smelling noticeably "off" in the first place.
    There are lots of claims of "spoiled" scents but nobody ever seems to want to sell them. There is a huge discrepancy, which seems to be statistically impossible. I would also like someone (who is a long-time BN member) to send me a sample of a scent they think is spoiled, because this has conspiracy theory written all over it. And it reminds me of someone I know who said Obama would "destroy America" before he took office. He is still saying that, and my response is, "Obama must be the worst procrastinator of all time!" LOL.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    There are lots of claims of "spoiled" scents but nobody ever seems to want to sell them. There is a huge discrepancy, which seems to be statistically impossible. I would also like someone (who is a long-time BN member) to send me a sample of a scent they think is spoiled, because this has conspiracy theory written all over it. And it reminds me of someone I know who said Obama would "destroy America" before he took office. He is still saying that, and my response is, "Obama must be the worst procrastinator of all time!" LOL.
    This seems like an inherently flawed line of reasoning to me. "Many claim to smell spoiled scents, but no one wants to sell them, thus it seems like a possible conspiracy" - ??? Why would anyone want to sell a spoiled scent? Presumably if you advertise it is spoiled, no one will want to buy it. If you don't and the buyer is angry when they smell it, you have to refund, rendering the transaction pointless. My guess is when scents go bad, people throw them out or give them to someone who doesn't mind the spoilage.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Roses still as fresh as the day they were picked.

    image.jpg

    My favourite perfume of any I have ever owned or own.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    This seems like an inherently flawed line of reasoning to me. "Many claim to smell spoiled scents, but no one wants to sell them, thus it seems like a possible conspiracy" - ??? Why would anyone want to sell a spoiled scent? Presumably if you advertise it is spoiled, no one will want to buy it. If you don't and the buyer is angry when they smell it, you have to refund, rendering the transaction pointless. My guess is when scents go bad, people throw them out or give them to someone who doesn't mind the spoilage.
    There has to be at least a few actual examples of someone saying that the scent may be spoiled. Instead, we get loads of claims but there never seems to be any actual liquid involved. If you want to believe that is reasonable, i can't stop you, but I find it totally unreasonable. And as I said, here I am, willing to buy all that "spoiled" Green Valley. Where are the sellers? And where are the samples of "spoiled" scents? All those claims yet nobody saves a sample? This is just silly! There are too many vintage fans and basically no evidence of "spoilage." This is a "dog that didn't bark" situation, and I do think that spoilage is possible, but if so, it is so obviously very rare that it is laughably unimportant. Those who want perfect top note may be in a different situation but for those of us who want the vintage drydowns, there is basically nothing here that warrants concern, unless one is a "catastrophizer." All IMO of course.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 19th August 2014 at 10:34 PM.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    There are lots of claims of "spoiled" scents but nobody ever seems to want to sell them. There is a huge discrepancy, which seems to be statistically impossible. I would also like someone (who is a long-time BN member) to send me a sample of a scent they think is spoiled, because this has conspiracy theory written all over it. And it reminds me of someone I know who said Obama would "destroy America" before he took office. He is still saying that, and my response is, "Obama must be the worst procrastinator of all time!" LOL.
    Read my original post - I would like to send a sample to someone to see if my opinion that the scent is spoiled is correct.

    For there to be a conspiracy, you would have to presume that someone somewhere benefits. Who benefits by me having a bottle of Creed MI that doesn't smell like it used to??? Or are you suggesting that this is an elaborate ploy to bash Creed?

    I do not understand your logic

  6. #66

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I just wonder if some spoilage blame isn't just reformulation or even a change in personal taste. There have been an onslaught of new regs. Unless the bottle has been the same one and the change is truly noticeable.

    In my experience the juice is normally much darker in a spoiled scent and it has to be fairly old or in the light or both. The true scent of bad proper spoilage is a pissy smell. Just like a cat. Old, sour and stale.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    There has to be at least a few actual examples of someone saying that the scent may be spoiled. Instead, we get loads of claims but there never seems to be any actual liquid involved. If you want to believe that is reasonable, i can't stop you, but I find it totally unreasonable. And as I said, here I am, willing to buy all that "spoiled" Green Valley. Where are the sellers? And where are the samples of "spoiled" scents? All those claims yet nobody saves a sample? This is just silly! There are too many vintage fans and basically no evidence of "spoilage." This is a "dog that didn't bark" situation, and I do think that spoilage is possible, but if so, it is so obviously very rare that it is laughably unimportant. Those who want perfect top note may be in a different situation but for those of us who want the vintage drydowns, there is basically nothing here that warrants concern, unless one is a "catastrophizer." All IMO of course.
    This comment is borderline incoherent to me. I guess I'll have to leave it at that.
    For the record, I gave my Green Valley to a friend in a bulk discharge of frags I no longer wanted. He kept most of them as far as I know, but he wound up tossing the GV after one wear.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I just wonder if some spoilage blame isn't just reformulation or even a change in personal taste. There have been an onslaught of new regs. Unless the bottle has been the same one and the change is truly noticeable.

    In my experience the juice is normally much darker in a spoiled scent and it has to be fairly old or in the light or both. The true scent of bad proper spoilage is a pissy smell. Just like a cat. Old, sour and stale.
    For me, the bottle of MI is the same bottle that I have had for some time. Someone asked earlier how long I have had the bottle and the honest answer is that I can't remember so it must be a number of years. The bottle itself has been through quite a bit including a couple of storage incidents due to flooding but it has not received any noticeable damage.

    To me, the scent has changed a lot from when I first started wearing it - it almost has a dirty smell to it. It could be a change in my perception but I am pretty sure that if someone else tried it side by side with another sample then they could easily spot the difference

  9. #69

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    Read my original post - I would like to send a sample to someone to see if my opinion that the scent is spoiled is correct.

    For there to be a conspiracy, you would have to presume that someone somewhere benefits. Who benefits by me having a bottle of Creed MI that doesn't smell like it used to??? Or are you suggesting that this is an elaborate ploy to bash Creed?

    I do not understand your logic
    Okay, I get it. What I meant is that it seems that a lot of people have the same mindset as those who go around telling everyone about conspiracy theories, because there are so many claims yet so little evidence. I have already pointed out that liquid in the tube of an old spray bottle does seem to sometimes "go bad," though even in those cases the vinegar-like quality dissipates with several minutes and you get the same drydown. And as mumsy said, it seems that some people do get bottles filled with a bad reformulation and then claim it must have "gone bad" in a hot warehouse, or something along those lines. Feel free to PM me about scents you have that you think "went bad" and we can discuss the particulars further. These kinds of general discussions, however, make no sense to me, because as I said, the evidence is so overwhelmingly against this claim that has become laughable, IMO (though I do think there are a tiny number of exceptions). By contrast, the evidence for bad reformulations is something one can go and assess, as I did. And while I was doing that, i should have encountered at least a few clearly "spoiled" scents, especially in the splash bottles, but that did not occur. Nor has it for other "vintage hunters," apparently, unless most are lying, and that brings us back to conspiratorial type thinking (for those who may think this is the case).
    Last edited by Bigsly; 19th August 2014 at 10:57 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    In my case I threw away the fragrance. .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #71

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Okay, I get it. What I meant is that it seems that a lot of people have the same mindset as those who go around telling everyone about conspiracy theories, because there are so many claims yet so little evidence.
    In this thread alone 18 people have come forward with direct testimony of frags in their possession going "off." I guess that's not enough evidence.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    In this thread alone 18 people have come forward with direct testimony of frags in their possession going "off." I guess that's not enough evidence.
    Perception can vary widely from one wearing to another, and my guess is that this where most such claims originate (other than where there is a clear conflict of interest, with people selling new scents telling others not to buy any that are more than 10 years old, or something to that effect). And I think this is more likely for newbies and people who are fixated on top notes. By contrast, there are more than a few people, myself included, who possess dozens of very old bottles, and the smell is fabulous. From what I remember, most of the "spoiled" claims have come from people with bottles that are less than 10 years old. Again, it's a "dog that didn't bark" situation. And let's see if anyone who has read this thread ever takes me up on my offer to buy "spoiled" scents. If they throw them in the garbage or give them away, as is so often claimed, they should certainly feel great about me paying them $30 or so instead. My guess is that will never happen, which will be yet more evidence to my point.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 19th August 2014 at 11:07 PM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Perception can vary widely from one wearing to another, and my guess is that this where most such claims originate. And I think this is more likely for newbies and people who are fixated on top notes. By contrast, there are more than a few people, myself included, who possess dozens of very old bottles, and the smell is fabulous. From what I remember, most of the "spoiled" claims have come from people with bottles that are less than 10 years old. Again, it's a "dog that didn't bark" situation. And let's see if anyone who has read this thread ever takes me up on my offer to buy "spoiled" scents. If they throw them in the garbage or give them away, as is so often claimed, they should certainly feel great about me paying them $30 or so instead. My guess is that will never happen, more evidence to my point.
    I thought you were an intellectual grad student of some kind. How can you possibly expect anyone to recognize the fact that nobody wants to sell you samples of spoiled frags they got rid of a long time ago as evidence to support your theory that claims of spoilage are a conspiracy? Again, this is bordering on incoherent to me.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    I thought you were an intellectual grad student of some kind. How can you possibly expect anyone to recognize the fact that nobody wants to sell you samples of spoiled frags they got rid of a long time ago as evidence to support your theory that claims of spoilage are a conspiracy? Again, this is bordering on incoherent to me.
    Perhaps you should consult an online dictionary at this point.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Perhaps you should consult an online dictionary at this point.
    Maybe Mad Libs would be more appropriate.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I understand why this thread is scary to some.
    It's the first time I've read so many posts claiming that fragrances go bad.

    I have noticed changes in fragrances. Slight changes.
    All of them were improvements.
    I own l'Eau d'Issey for +/- 6 years now and it smells fine to this day.
    Sparkling fresh.
    The slight change here is that the challenging opening fades a bit faster.
    That, ladies and gentlemen, is an improvement.
    It's the drydown of l'Eau d'Issey that is deadly sexy and garners the compliments.

    I store my fragrances in the box in a closet in my living room.
    You could say that is room temperature but when I take a bottle out of the box, I always notice how cold it feels.

    There are 3 important key factors you should take into consideration.

    1) Experience changes perception
    Let's say you started with aquatics.
    After 5 years you have tested 200 fragrances, ranging from Serge Lutens to MDCI.
    These aquatics might not smell the same to you anymore.

    2) Your nose can have an offday
    I have experienced this phenomenon multiple times.
    On some days, I can smell fragrances very clearly and detect the slightest nuances in high definition.
    On other days, they smell like flat dreck. Or they give me instant nose fatigue and I can't smell them.

    3) Reports of fragrances going bad might be due to bad storage.
    Even if they say that is not the case. Trust me.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Perception can vary widely from one wearing to another, and my guess is that this where most such claims originate
    I have to agree.
    Some fragrances give me a different impression with every wearing.
    Aventus and the exact clone which is AB Spirit Silver have this effect on me.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    Maybe Mad Libs would be more appropriate.
    If you want to claim incoherence then go ahead and cite something that confuses you. Otherwise, readers will have to decide for themselves, which is fine with me because I think I have made my position clear. Being trained in investigative techniques, the first thing one must establish is that there is more than "smoke." If not, one would find oneself chasing after every internet conspiracy theory ever posited. In this case, I have a great deal of personal experience, and the "evidence" put forth to the contrary always seems to be "smoke" but never "fire." By contrast there are all the threads and reviews of vintage scents, with hardly any mention of getting "spoiled" bottles, despite buying on sites like ebay, where one has no idea what the storage conditions were. Also worthy of note, many who have swapped with me for vintage have told me how incredibly rich and powerful those scents are. This is an old "debate" and you sound very much like a blogger who has been making a similar claim for a long time now (though banned from BN years ago), just to let others know about that, considering how you joined this site last month and sound awfully familiar to that person in many of your posts!
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 12:17 AM.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    In this thread alone 18 people have come forward with direct testimony of frags in their possession going "off."
    I'm not saying that some people are lying, but keep in mind there might be a conflict of interest.
    People who sell fragrances don't want you to enjoy a 40 dollar fragrance for 10 years.
    They want you to come back every 2 years and repurchase that fragrance.
    If you would search for similar topics about this subject, you might find every single poster claiming that they don't go bad.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    As none of us can actually smell the others fragrances at this point. It is hardly worth an argument.

    We could all smell any examples of each other's 'off' perfumes but even if we did, what would be the point? You either like them still or you don't. We're not really going to achieve anything other than to discuss the methods of preventing it happening with the ones that haven't gone yet.

    Basically it goes something like this:- buy it and keep it in the box, as cool as you can, and if it is a splash bottle then regularly decant into a travelo or the like and use that daily instead of keep opening the main donor bottle.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    And let's see if anyone who has read this thread ever takes me up on my offer to buy "spoiled" scents. If they throw them in the garbage or give them away, as is so often claimed, they should certainly feel great about me paying them $30 or so instead. My guess is that will never happen, which will be yet more evidence to my point.
    If you feel strongly that a truly "spoiled" fragrance is exceedingly rare, and you had a chance to get a highly collectible fragrance which you enjoy that someone cast off because they thought it had degraded, would you be willing to pay a fair price for it, or only $30?

    I dont think most people are going to go to the trouble for only $30. More often than not, most will just keep (or throw away) the cologne.
    Basenotes sales: Many collectible/discontinued CREEDs (Citrus Bigarrade, Selection Verte), Himalaya & other Basenotes favorites (Spicebomb, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Artisan Batucada, L'Essence de Cerruti, The Vert) http://www.basenotes.net/threads/340...erruti-TheVert

    Offsite sales: Collectible CREEDs (Vintage Tabarome, Selection Verte, Citrus Bigarrade), Himalaya & other Basenotes favorites (Spicebomb, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Artisan Batucada, L'Essence de Cerruti, The Vert) http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=260 and http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=626

  22. #82

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    As none of us can actually smell the others fragrances at this point. It is hardly worth an argument.

    We could all smell any examples of each other's 'off' perfumes but even if we did, what would be the point? You either like them still or you don't. We're not really going to achieve anything other than to discuss the methods of preventing it happening with the ones that haven't gone yet.

    Basically it goes something like this:- buy it and keep it in the box, as cool as you can, and if it is a splash bottle then regularly decant into a travelo or the like and use that daily instead of keep opening the main donor bottle.
    Well to be fair let's examine what the OP asked:

    "On this site posters always say that fragrances can last for years. But has anyone ever witnessed a fragrance that went bad? If so, how was your experience? Will just a note disappear? Will it be unwearable and you have to do throw it out (similar to expired food)? Those who have witnessed this, how long did you have the bottle?

    Some of you have hundreds of fragrances from the 80s/90s. So I'm assuming you guys are bound to experience a fragrance going bad."

    First, it would have helped if the OP had pointed to contrary claims (on other sites). Secondly, it's not accurate to say that at BN everyone thinks every scent lasts for "years" (and also, how many is too many?). There was one scent, a "feminine," that back around 2008 or so, people were posting would "go bad" quickly, and that is a good example of "the exception proving the rule," because if there were even just a few others, we would have heard of them. Does anyone remember what that scent was? At the time I wasn't interested in "feminines," so I didn't think much of the whole affair, though for some reason I think it may have been by Givenchy.

    In any case, I think that the OP has gotten what he asked for at this point, at least from me. However, there are some scents that only exist in vintage formulation, so there is no way to know how it compares if you only obtained a bottle recently, and that is putting aside how perceptions can change from one wearing to another. I think the best you can do is to determine what works for you. If you are mostly interested in drydowns, I doubt you will encounter "spoiled" vintage scents. I can't speak to top notes, but the vintage scents I have certainly seem to possess at least fairly strong ones, and they don't smell like vinegar or anything like that, except for some situations I mentioned above. On the other hand, if you don't appreciate vintage drydowns, then you can just go for the recent stuff and not think twice about it.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 12:52 AM.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider430 View Post
    If you feel strongly that a truly "spoiled" fragrance is exceedingly rare, and you had a chance to get a highly collectible fragrance which you enjoy that someone cast off because they thought it had degraded, would you be willing to pay a fair price for it, or only $30?

    I dont think most people are going to go to the trouble for only $30. More often than not, most will just keep (or throw away) the cologne.
    It would depend upon exactly what I'd be getting. For a nearly full 4 ounce sealed bottle of Green Valley, I'd be willing to pay more than $30, and I'd also be willing to swap some nice things, so don't be a stranger! LOL.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider430 View Post
    If you feel strongly that a truly "spoiled" fragrance is exceedingly rare, and you had a chance to get a highly collectible fragrance which you enjoy that someone cast off because they thought it had degraded, would you be willing to pay a fair price for it, or only $30?

    I dont think most people are going to go to the trouble for only $30. More often than not, most will just keep (or throw away) the cologne.
    My point exactly.

    I don't know who this blogger is, Bigsly. I can tell you I'm just coming to this site for clear info on frags. Sorry but I get annoyed when people then make mountains out of mole hills. If frags sometimes spoil, that makes sense to me. Like Mumsy says, there shouldn't be an argument over what is a loose consensus in this context. Others have said their frags have survived the years intact. Most of mine have also.

    If it seemed like I was attacking you, it was because you failed to explain how 18 people casually mentioning experiencing spoilage of a frag once or twice in their life constitutes 18 mistaken individuals who are confused about what they're smelling. You're basically telling me that my Green Valley was fine, and I was wrong to get rid of it. Then you're telling me that because I can't sell you a sample of a spoiled perfume that I got rid of years ago, this supports your theory that people are conspiring to make these claims - for no clear reason. That's pretty much what you said. That's what made me comment.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I haven't had any but I bought a couple on Ebay that were bad. One was Creed Zesty Mandarine Pamplemousse and it smelled terrible. It was positively revolting. The other was a Chanel Allure that had an off note that ruined the scent. I think that Chanel has been ruined for me forever.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I've purchased between 70-100 fragrances on eBay - current formulations, vintage formulations and current releases. I've purchased new and second hand. The only three that have ever been off were :

    1. Cool Water (2nd hand vintage splash bottle EDT with cursive font, no box)
    2. Eau De Rochas Homme (new vintage spray EDT with box)
    3. Eau Sauvage (2nd hand vintage spray EDT, no box.)

    In each case, I have multiple bottles sourced from different places, so a side by side comparison to compare freshness is easy to do. In each case, they just have an off smell that smells (to my nose) like burnt sugar.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    My point exactly.

    I don't know who this blogger is, Bigsly. I can tell you I'm just coming to this site for clear info on frags. Sorry but I get annoyed when people then make mountains out of mole hills. If frags sometimes spoil, that makes sense to me. Like Mumsy says, there shouldn't be an argument over what is a loose consensus in this context. Others have said their frags have survived the years intact. Most of mine have also.

    If it seemed like I was attacking you, it was because you failed to explain how 18 people casually mentioning experiencing spoilage of a frag once or twice in their life constitutes 18 mistaken individuals who are confused about what they're smelling. You're basically telling me that my Green Valley was fine, and I was wrong to get rid of it. Then you're telling me that because I can't sell you a sample of a spoiled perfume that I got rid of years ago, this supports your theory that people are conspiring to make these claims - for no clear reason. That's pretty much what you said. That's what made me comment.
    I did explain why some people think that a scent is "spoiled" but you apparently do not accept the explanation. There's nothing I can do about that - you have a right to state your opinion. I feel that not only have I had enough experience to say that such claims appear to be mountains made out of molehills, in one way or another (again, as I have already explained), but there are a huge number of comments about vintage scents and there are hardly any claims about "spoilage." Most of those claims seem to be made by newbies and most seem to be about much more recent scents (less than ten years old), which again is simply too inconsistent with my vast experience for me to take them seriously. If you want to do that, good for you, and I hope people will listen to you and sell me their "spoiled" Creeds at good prices. Sadly (for me), I doubt a single person will ever do that !

  28. #88

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul P View Post
    I've purchased between 70-100 fragrances on eBay - current formulations, vintage formulations and current releases. I've purchased new and second hand. The only three that have ever been off were :

    1. Cool Water (2nd hand vintage splash bottle EDT with cursive font, no box)
    2. Eau De Rochas Homme (new vintage spray EDT with box)
    3. Eau Sauvage (2nd hand vintage spray EDT, no box.)

    In each case, I have multiple bottles sourced from different places, so a side by side comparison to compare freshness is easy to do. In each case, they just have an off smell that smells (to my nose) like burnt sugar.
    Thanks for the specific claim. I recently experienced what I think you referred to as a "burnt sugar" quality with some very old Chanel No. 5 EdC, but it didn't last long and the rest of the scent was excellent. This is why, in my experience, I can't accept the "spoiled" claim unless someone says something like, "I must have perfect top notes or else I do not want it," in which case you can sell them to me, so long as you are willing to give a major discount on the pricing. However, if I really want a specific scent I'd pay higher prices, but I'm not looking for many these days. In any case, that "burnt sugar" thing is not at all uncommon, so that should help the OP - you can read quite a few reviews that mention this. One reviewer said that the first "masculine" scent by Guess smelled like "hot vinyl and overheated electronics," for example, and I understand what he means, but again that lasts for a very short period of time, and since I didn't experience this scent until a few years ago, I assumed that is not a sign of "spoilage." In fact, I have read many reviews of old "feminine" scents in which similar claims were made - that led me to conclude that this was indeed how they smelled a few decades ago (in some reviews this was stated explicitly, though I can't say I know for sure they were telling the truth, obviously). At this point my guess is that most such claims are made by those I call "top notes people," since I have yet to experience a drydown that smelled clearly "spoiled," though as I said I usually can't compare it to what it was like originally, assuming there is a noticeable difference..
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 07:26 AM.

  29. #89
    Super Member Poohdini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    This thread just got interesting lol........

  30. #90

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    It's boiled down to the word 'spoiled' means different things to different people and that was what the OP seemed to want to know.

    I did however have another completely different thought last night.

    I wondered if newer fragrances going off might be due to the newer sorts of isolates and chemicals that have a different behaviours to the ingredients in the classics of old. If the molecules are singled out to make these new aroma components, then it would be fairly logical that they weren't as anchored in some way and could therefore 'turn' faster. It would also be logical in our throwaway society that this wasn't unintentional.

    Another thought was to write a list here on this very thread of all the scents reputed to be spoiled from any sources and let's have a proper look at what the notes in each fragrance actually are. Maybe in this debating process, we might be missing a discovery of the obvious that is right under our noses so to speak.

  31. #91

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.

  32. #92

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.
    You might consider reading what I actually wrote before writing up such posts (for example, in what number post on this thread do I say that vintage is superior?). It sounds like you have read someone's blog (I won't name it) and are just parroting what that person said.

  33. #93
    Super Member Poohdini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.
    +1.....
    Last edited by Poohdini; 20th August 2014 at 09:05 AM.

  34. #94

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I challenge you to put your
    Creeds to constant 95+ weather for a few years and then come back to this thread...... You will be having a similar experience as me..... No scent. You guys think everyone lives at your temperature. My weather is probably equivalent of you leaving your perfumes in the car all the time. I dont even have to say anything else.


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  35. #95

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I lay claim to having a large collection of vintage so make of that what you will.... Each to their own. Over and out.

  36. #96
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I think that many are bouncing around the original question and the waters have become muddied with the question of 'vintage'

    It is quite easy for me as I believe I have an example of exactly what the OP is asking. I have a bottle of Creed MI. I have had it a long time. It doesn't smell like it used to. I think that it may have spoiled.

    I am not comparing one batch to another, I am not comparing how it smells on a day to day basis, I am not suggesting that a 'vintage' version is better/worse than my bottle

    Again, it is simple for me - bought a bottle of MI, still own it, I think that the smell has altered for the worse - does this class as going bad?

    And I offer the same thing again - I would love to confirm if my view is correct - I am willing to send a sample to anyone with experience of MI to see if my beliefs are correct. I am willing to accept that it is my perception of the scent that has changed but I honestly believe that the scent has gone off whilst in the bottle

  37. #97

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    I think that many are bouncing around the original question and the waters have become muddied with the question of 'vintage'

    It is quite easy for me as I believe I have an example of exactly what the OP is asking. I have a bottle of Creed MI. I have had it a long time. It doesn't smell like it used to. I think that it may have spoiled.

    I am not comparing one batch to another, I am not comparing how it smells on a day to day basis, I am not suggesting that a 'vintage' version is better/worse than my bottle

    Again, it is simple for me - bought a bottle of MI, still own it, I think that the smell has altered for the worse - does this class as going bad?

    And I offer the same thing again - I would love to confirm if my view is correct - I am willing to send a sample to anyone with experience of MI to see if my beliefs are correct. I am willing to accept that it is my perception of the scent that has changed but I honestly believe that the scent has gone off whilst in the bottle
    I totally believe you, as my aventus died too. People here are forgetting that a perfume can be "vintage" or purchased 30 years ago, but if it has been at 75 degree weather or lower all the time, the timing factor is probably irrelevant. Place your bottles at 100 degree weather for those same 30 years and tell me it has not turned........... This is leading me to believe that proper storage is the most important aspect and time aging is irrelevant if proper storage has been followed.



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  38. #98

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    I think that many are bouncing around the original question and the waters have become muddied with the question of 'vintage'

    It is quite easy for me as I believe I have an example of exactly what the OP is asking. I have a bottle of Creed MI. I have had it a long time. It doesn't smell like it used to. I think that it may have spoiled.

    I am not comparing one batch to another, I am not comparing how it smells on a day to day basis, I am not suggesting that a 'vintage' version is better/worse than my bottle

    Again, it is simple for me - bought a bottle of MI, still own it, I think that the smell has altered for the worse - does this class as going bad?

    And I offer the same thing again - I would love to confirm if my view is correct - I am willing to send a sample to anyone with experience of MI to see if my beliefs are correct. I am willing to accept that it is my perception of the scent that has changed but I honestly believe that the scent has gone off whilst in the bottle
    This sounds like you are just perceiving it differently, which is something I have found to be very common. You are not very specific, unlike the "burnt sugar" claim, which makes sense. You don't even say if it seems to be mostly a top notes issue or a drydown one. In fact at least one blogger has claimed that GIT needs to age after perhaps half an ounce is used and for perhaps half a year before it reaches its prime, IIRC (not that I agree with this). The claim of something being "spoiled" should be used only when a scent smells awful to just about everyone, IMO. If you want to claim that a scent smells like rotten garbage in the summer heat, for instance, then that is quite a distance from saying it smells a bit different. In fact, there was a recent BN thread that discussed a couple of bottles found in a shipwreck that was about 150 years old, and one of the bottles smelled very bad, IIRC. That is not what apparently happens with the kinds of vintage scents usually discussed here or on similar sites, except perhaps with the rarest of exceptions. And how is it that the same people who demonstrate little appreciation of vintage drydowns seem to be the ones who are making claims about "spoiled" scents? There is something amiss here, but I think I have already made my opinion known about the factors that are at work here, and I just hope people like yourself will sell me your "spoiled" Creeds at prices considerably higher than one would expect for something like spoiled food, if anyone would even consider buying spoiled food.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 09:35 AM.

  39. #99

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by herbert7890 View Post
    I totally believe you, as my aventus died too. People here are forgetting that a perfume can be "vintage" or purchased 30 years ago, but if it has been at 75 degree weather or lower all the time, the timing factor is probably irrelevant. Place your bottles at 100 degree weather for those same 30 years and tell me it has not turned........... This is leading me to believe that proper storage is the most important aspect and time aging is irrelevant if proper storage has been followed.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well this is easy to test. I will take one of my dollar store scents and do what you think will "spoil" it and then we will see what happens. I have two bottles of "our version of Paco Rabanne PH," so one will serve as the "control." Just let me know exactly what to do with it.

    NOTE: I'll go $40 for a 3/4 or more full 4 oz. but "spoiled" Aventus bottle. Would anyone outbid me on it?
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 09:49 AM.

  40. #100

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    We should take this to court.

    In the end it's JUST about fragrances.

    Most people state that if the scent is stored properly they are usable for many, many years.

    Some state that the scent gets better like some wines I guess.

    Other state that fragrances only go bad if they aren't taking good care of.

    Only some bottles change a little bit after a few years even if they were stored properly.

    Unfortunately there seem to be some exceptions where people are saying their well stored fragrance went bad after a few years.

    This is how I see all the posts in this thread.

    Have a nice day y'all!

    TLS

  41. #101

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    You might consider reading what I actually wrote before writing up such posts (for example, in what number post on this thread do I say that vintage is superior?). It sounds like you have read someone's blog (I won't name it) and are just parroting what that person said.
    I have read your posts and your blog. I can't find it now, but just a day or two ago I was looking through some old thread, and it was you arguing, apparently for the Nth time now that I've done some googling, about how vintage is richer, deeper, more complex, and just outright superior to anything modern, especially niche. You also must have a lot of practice typing one handed, because you can't seem to participate in a thread without patting yourself on the back about how your every assumption is always rights. The level of confirmation bias you suffer from is on a scale barely comprehensible.

    *****

    And despite these vagaries, vintages are the ones I reach for perhaps 90% of the time these days. These scents possess certain exceptional qualities that no longer exist in recent releases, even niche, and that whatever slight changes may have occurred over time (beyond the top notes, of which I haven’t studied in much detail), these scents are what makes this “hobby” worth pursuing for me (I’ve yet to encounter an old bottle that turned to “dreck”).

    Niche and recent designer rarely if ever approach what vintage does,

    Get it while it's still cheap and laugh at those paying $100+ for small bottles of niche incense frags !

    Speaking in the context of a very general notion of the differences between niche and designer, I rarely reach for my niche, and I've got plenty, and this is also true of recent designer. I'd rather wear a bunch of "women's" scents (vintage designer) than niche, in fact.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/375...vintage-scents

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/236...uot-frags-POLL

    and I'm sure it goes on for many more years and hundreds of thousands of words.

  42. #102

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    I have read your posts and your blog. I can't find it now, but just a day or two ago I was looking through some old thread, and it was you arguing, apparently for the Nth time now that I've done some googling, about how vintage is richer, deeper, more complex, and just outright superior to anything modern, especially niche. You also must have a lot of practice typing one handed, because you can't seem to participate in a thread without patting yourself on the back about how your every assumption is always rights. The level of confirmation bias you suffer from is on a scale barely comprehensible.

    *****

    And despite these vagaries, vintages are the ones I reach for perhaps 90% of the time these days. These scents possess certain exceptional qualities that no longer exist in recent releases, even niche, and that whatever slight changes may have occurred over time (beyond the top notes, of which I haven’t studied in much detail), these scents are what makes this “hobby” worth pursuing for me (I’ve yet to encounter an old bottle that turned to “dreck”).

    Niche and recent designer rarely if ever approach what vintage does,

    Get it while it's still cheap and laugh at those paying $100+ for small bottles of niche incense frags !

    Speaking in the context of a very general notion of the differences between niche and designer, I rarely reach for my niche, and I've got plenty, and this is also true of recent designer. I'd rather wear a bunch of "women's" scents (vintage designer) than niche, in fact.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/375...vintage-scents

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/236...uot-frags-POLL

    and I'm sure it goes on for many more years and hundreds of thousands of words.
    I generally find vintage preferable but I have often said that if people like more recent releases that's great for them, and I like some myself. You are going off topic on a personal attack, but BN readers are mostly quite smart, I believe, so have at it and see where it gets you. I pointed out that one can read countless reviews and posts from people who appreciate vintage, with hardly any mention of what I view as "spoilage" (and how most people conceive of that term) - anyone can go and read these for themselves to see that it is not just my word. In fact, I am very surprised that there isn't a lot more mention of "spoilage" because of how the first few minutes of some vintage can seem like "burnt sugar," as one person phrased it. These facts, along with rising prices for vintage on ebay, are more than enough evidence, IMO (for no drydown spoilage), even if one were to delete everything I have ever written about scents online! There was also a GC/MS study of several Old Spice formulations posted on the Badger and Blade site, which showed very good preservation (certainly no spoilage), and what do we see here? People claiming spoilage for Aventus and MI. Do I even need to say "I rest my case?" LOL.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 20th August 2014 at 10:10 AM.

  43. #103
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I generally find vintage preferable but I have often said that if people like more recent releases that's great for them, and I like some myself. You are going off topic on a personal attack, but BN readers are mostly quite smart, I believe, so have at it and see where it gets you. I pointed out that one can read countless reviews and posts from people who appreciate vintage, with hardly any mention of what I view as "spoilage" (and how most people conceive of that term) - anyone can go and read these for themselves to see that it is not just my word. In fact, I am very surprised that there isn't a lot more mention of "spoilage" because of how the first few minutes of some vintage can seem like "burnt sugar," as one person phrased it. These facts, along with rising prices for vintage on ebay, are more than enough evidence, IMO (for no drydown spoilage), even if one were to delete everything I have ever written about scents online! There was also a GC/MS study of several Old Spice formulations posted on the Badger and Blade site, which showed very good preservation (certainly no spoilage), and what do we see here? People claiming spoilage for Aventus and MI. Do I even need to say "I rest my case?" LOL.
    You are right Bigsly - I have just revisited my bottle of MI and can confirm that the problem is that I don't know what I am talking about.

    I have taken my nose outside and given it a good talking too - hopefully I will not be as nave in the future to even suggest a fragrance has gone bad

  44. #104

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by yarn View Post
    You are right Bigsly - I have just revisited my bottle of MI and can confirm that the problem is that I don't know what I am talking about.

    I have taken my nose outside and given it a good talking too - hopefully I will not be as nave in the future to even suggest a fragrance has gone bad
    No, the problem is that you were not specific. Nobody is saying that you don't perceive a difference. However, you have not told us whether you perceive it in the top notes, the drydown, or the whole scent progression. Nor have you given us any idea how "bad" this "spoilage" was. Your statement is something I consider to be good evidence to support the notion that there isn't spoilage (as most conceive of the term), but readers can make up their own minds. I just want to get some offers from people like yourself, but instead I have a feeling I will keep reading about how someone threw a bottle of Aventus in the garbage. That does not sound credible to me at all, but again, readers can make up their own minds.

  45. #105

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    'Your statement that your fragrance spoiled is something I consider to be good evidence that fragrances don't spoil.'

    Here's a tip, a condescending attitude generally only works when you don't come across as completely off your gourd.

  46. #106
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    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    No, the problem is that you were not specific. Nobody is saying that you don't perceive a difference. However, you have not told us whether you perceive it in the top notes, the drydown, or the whole scent progression. Nor have you given us any idea how "bad" this "spoilage" was. Your statement is something I consider to be good evidence to support the notion that there isn't spoilage (as most conceive of the term), but readers can make up their own minds. I just want to get some offers from people like yourself, but instead I have a feeling I will keep reading about how someone threw a bottle of Aventus in the garbage. That does not sound credible to me at all, but again, readers can make up their own minds.
    If you read my earlier posts you will see that I have mentioned what I believe to be wrong with the scent in that it has a dirty smell and isn't as bright as I remember it.

    I cant help but feel that your stance is that if I am unable to pick the exact notes that have altered then I must be wrong. For many on this board it is not possible to decipher exact notes at the best of times so to suggest that I must be wrong because I am unable to catalogue the exact elements of the scent that have changed is frankly insulting

  47. #107

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomaniac View Post
    All I see is that the person who claims vintage is superior to everything, and hates top notes, is going to argue in the face of any and all claims, that no matter what is important to anyone else, and no matter what anyone else has actually experienced, vintage will still smell great, and top notes still don't matter. The bias is so clear and overbearing that there appears to be absolutely no merit in actually engaging in any discourse. Anyone who finds a fragrance to have gone off will be considered a liar, a poor judge of fragrance quality, or horribly inconsistent in their ability to smell their own property. That's it, there is no room at all for a fragrance to actually have gone bad, only room for other people to be categorically wrong in their personal opinion.
    + 2. Very well said.

  48. #108

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    + 2. Very well said.
    +3. Thats why I made the 95+ dregree weather challenge. I could simplify it. Leave your personal favorite niche perfume inside your car for 2 years (to somewhat recreate the room temperature of Puerto Rico), then come back to this thread and post how great your fragrance smells!!

  49. #109

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I was going to keep my trap shut but it's impossible to watch quietly.

    Distillation occurs at much higher temperatures than air and that is what produces the fragrant oils in the first place. It is oxidisation that ruins a fragrance, not the temperature alone. If you didn't open the box and left it in the car for two years completely intact and in the box, it may well be perfectly alright.

  50. #110

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I was going to keep my trap shut but it's impossible to watch quietly.

    Distillation occurs at much higher temperatures than air and that is what produces the fragrant oils in the first place. It is oxidisation that ruins a fragrance, not the temperature alone. If you didn't open the box and left it in the car for two years completely intact and in the box, it may well be perfectly alright.

    What you said might be true, but for the purpose of any experiment, we have to make everything else as normal as possible (normal usage for a person in this case), which will be an open used bottle without the box, inside the car for 2 years. You don't expect normal people will buy a perfume and leave it there unopen foir 2 years, right?

  51. #111

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by herbert7890 View Post
    Leave your personal favorite niche perfume inside your car for 2 years (to somewhat recreate the room temperature of Puerto Rico), then come back to this thread and post how great your fragrance smells!!
    I think it's quite normal that your Aventus has turned under these conditions.

  52. #112

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    I have an old bottle of L'Occitane's Eau du Contadour and I can't wear it, it now stinks of BO so I can't even use it up as a room atomiser.

  53. #113

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    I think it's quite normal that your Aventus has turned under these conditions.
    You already know and the experiment has yet to take place ;-)

  54. #114

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by themaleedit View Post
    I have an old bottle of L'Occitane's Eau du Contadour and I can't wear it, it now stinks of BO so I can't even use it up as a room atomiser.
    You left it in your car for how many years?

  55. #115

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    You already know and the experiment has yet to take place ;-)
    I have no reason to disbelieve his statement about Aventus going bad since it was stored in bad conditions.

  56. #116

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    I have no reason to disbelieve his statement about Aventus going bad since it was stored in bad conditions.
    It went bad in Puerto Rico heat. Dark, in a closet. The car thing is an experiment. Someone will put his bottle of Aventus in a car for 2 years and leave it that way. Sealed. In the sun.

  57. #117

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    The moral of the story is that in very hot countries only buy smaller bottles, decants and samples.....or keep them in a fridge. It also proves that terrible conditions ruin a fragrance. No surprises there.

  58. #118

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    It went bad in Puerto Rico heat. Dark, in a closet. The car thing is an experiment. Someone will put his bottle of Aventus in a car for 2 years and leave it that way. Sealed. In the sun.
    He compares the car thing with the Puerto Rico heat in the closet.
    So even if it was stored in a dark closet, the heat could easily destroy a fragrance.

  59. #119

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    He compares the car thing with the Puerto Rico heat in the closet.
    So even if it was stored in a dark closet, the heat could easily destroy a fragrance.
    I know...

  60. #120

    Default Re: Anyone ever experience a fragrance going bad?

    There ought to be some papers on thermal stability or time/temp/moisture positions for aromachemicals, if someone has access to databases of scholarly articles on the subject. There are ISO standards for testing polymers with advanced aging through thermal stress, and similar tests for archival papers. Seems that, at at least at one time, a test of 72 hours at 100C was considered comparable to 20 years of normal storage for documents. That's a relatively large difference in time scale, so steam distillation is not a way to reduce concerns over degradation that takes place over years.

    One mistake in this discussion seems to be comparison to human perception of time and temperature, stating in an absolute if the useful life under certain circumstances is long or short. It simply is, and you have to adjust conditions because you aren't going to change natural laws. Room temperature varies by location, and it judged by what is comfortable for a person. The passage of time is also judged by human perception in memory and cycles of our own activities. What matters is the reaction rate and how time and temperature work together. At some point the compound would kick off as it reaches a threshold for degradation with a change in the percentage of the total volume being altered.

    Whether or not the box is opened and how much air is inside are only minor points when you would also need to know how much water is in the fragrance, how much oxygen is in the fragrance and not just the airspace, what the specific fragrance molecules are and their reaction rates, and more. Leaving a fragrance in a car would give wildly varying results. Is the car parked in the Arctic circle or Death Valley or Dallol Ethiopia (average temperature of 34.4 C/94 F) What color is the body and interior, are the windows tinted, how much ventilation is built into it, how much interior room is there, etc. Left in a car with windows closed in the same location where the fragrance was left in a house, the time needed reach the same level of degradation would be expected to be much shorter.

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