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  1. #1

    Question Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    I'm crazy about coffe now, although I'm apprentice perfumer but I think my nose go better in food.

    May be Thailand is the land of food.

    Coffee drive me crazy, I'm mad with it since last valentine. I'd like to have coffee-woody fragrance for myself but I don't know how to start making coffee accord.

    Do anyone have idea about coffee and tobacco accord?

    thanks for sharing in advance.
    No perfect perfume without Bias.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenGSoHigH View Post

    I'd like to have coffee-woody fragrance for myself but I don't know how to start making coffee accord.

    Do anyone have idea about coffee and tobacco accord?

    thanks for sharing in advance.
    Did you ever make any progress with this accord? I'd also like something similar but am finding a good coffee accord hard to make. Some sulphur, vanilla and smokey elements is a start, but it doesn't smell good.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    I found this formula on the good scent company site, haven't made it myself so I can't tell you anything but I thought it might give you a hand.

    Coffee composition for a fine fragrance
    In this coffee accord 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone with its warm, spicy/saffran note gives warmth, richness and volume to the fragrance. Patent EP1184447 A1
    For Fragrance Use
    0.50 2-acetyl pyrazine
    2.00 civetone
    3.50 corylone
    1.00 damascenone
    83.8 DIPG
    1.00 ethyl dimethyl pyrazine 1%
    0.50 fenugreek absolute 10%
    0.70 furfuryl mercaptan 1%
    0.50 guaiacol
    1.00 maltol
    1.00 2-methyl pyrazine 1%
    2.00 isoeugenyl acetate
    1.00 vanillin
    2.00 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone
    100.00 Total

  4. #4

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    On sale there are excellent extracts and bases, for example: CAFE EXTRAIT CONCENTREE ENC, COFFEE SFE Firmenich, Black Coffee S.O.S. If most learns to do bases from scratch, it would be good. But as the beginner, I save the time and forces, using ready-made products from concerns.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheDevil737 View Post
    I found this formula on the good scent company site, haven't made it myself so I can't tell you anything but I thought it might give you a hand.

    Coffee composition for a fine fragrance
    In this coffee accord 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone with its warm, spicy/saffran note gives warmth, richness and volume to the fragrance. Patent EP1184447 A1
    For Fragrance Use
    0.50 2-acetyl pyrazine
    2.00 civetone
    3.50 corylone
    1.00 damascenone
    83.8 DIPG
    1.00 ethyl dimethyl pyrazine 1%
    0.50 fenugreek absolute 10%
    0.70 furfuryl mercaptan 1%
    0.50 guaiacol
    1.00 maltol
    1.00 2-methyl pyrazine 1%
    2.00 isoeugenyl acetate
    1.00 vanillin
    2.00 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone
    100.00 Total
    Nice find, SheDevil. 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone would be difficult for him to source but he could perhaps use saffron indenone instead, which is only one methyl group removed from the former.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrinal View Post
    On sale there are excellent extracts and bases, for example: CAFE EXTRAIT CONCENTREE ENC, COFFEE SFE Firmenich, Black Coffee S.O.S. If most learns to do bases from scratch, it would be good. But as the beginner, I save the time and forces, using ready-made products from concerns.
    Indeed, if he can afford to use a natural extract then that would be preferable. The issue with constructing a coffee accord, at least for a beginner, is that it requires several high impact materials, which require careful handling and dosage.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    Nice find, SheDevil. 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone would be difficult for him to source but he could perhaps use saffron indenone instead, which is only one methyl group removed from the former.
    I cannot find half of the compounds listed here
    0.50 2-acetyl pyrazine cannot find
    2.00 civetone Is at perfumers apprendice
    3.50 corylone cannot find
    1.00 damascenone at creating perfume
    83.8 DIPG
    1.00 ethyl dimethyl pyrazine 1%cannot find
    0.50 fenugreek absolute 10%
    0.70 furfuryl mercaptan 1% cannot find
    0.50 guaiacol Is at perfumers apprendice
    1.00 maltol Is at perfumers apprendice
    1.00 2-methyl pyrazine 1% cannot find
    2.00 isoeugenyl acetate Is at perfumers apprendice
    1.00 vanillin Is at perfumers apprendice
    2.00 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone cannot find
    100.00 Total

    any Ideas.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    It *is* harder to build coffee yourself without those pyrazines and mercaptans.

    Most of those I have obtained from Sigma Aldrich. PA used to sell 2-acetyl pyrazine, check them again.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    It *is* harder to build coffee yourself without those pyrazines and mercaptans.

    Most of those I have obtained from Sigma Aldrich. PA used to sell 2-acetyl pyrazine, check them again.
    Thanks Paul, they have them

  10. #10

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas.com View Post
    I cannot find half of the compounds listed here
    0.50 2-acetyl pyrazine cannot find
    2.00 civetone Is at perfumers apprendice
    3.50 corylone cannot find
    1.00 damascenone at creating perfume
    83.8 DIPG
    1.00 ethyl dimethyl pyrazine 1%cannot find
    0.50 fenugreek absolute 10%
    0.70 furfuryl mercaptan 1% cannot find
    0.50 guaiacol Is at perfumers apprendice
    1.00 maltol Is at perfumers apprendice
    1.00 2-methyl pyrazine 1% cannot find
    2.00 isoeugenyl acetate Is at perfumers apprendice
    1.00 vanillin Is at perfumers apprendice
    2.00 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone cannot find
    100.00 Total

    any Ideas.
    Paul has kindly found you a source for 2-acetyl pyrazine.

    For corylone you can use maple lactone. For ethyl dimethyl pyrazine you can use cocoa pyrazine. For 3,3-dimethyl-1-indanone you can try Safraleine. These, along with 2-methyl pyrazine, are available from Pell Wall Perfumes. The furfuryl mercaptan would be harder to replace. I wouldn't consider it a replacement but benzothiazole has a strong sulphur note and can certainly be useful in coffee accords.

    Various furanones (caramel, maple, strawberry, shoyu, etc.) are found in coffee, so you may also want to add a little of these.
    Last edited by Pears; 25th October 2019 at 08:06 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    I've not smelled the Benzothiazole, but in my opinion, the Furfuryl Mercaptan is likely the key coffee odorant in this formula. The rest of the nuts, and other things are more to fill out and round off the odor profile. The Furfuryl Mercaptan is the base that all other materials are based upon.
    And you won't need to buy very much. If you can buy from Sigma, and you buy a $40 5ml sample of Furfuryl Mercaptan pure, that would be all you'd need. Except that you'll need a triple airtight storage bottle system to store the bottle of pure. Mine lives out in the garage, triple bottled, and still the whole garage smells like coffee. It simply cannot be in living space, nor in the Lab, it is too strong and effervescent. and, DON'T TAKE THE CAP OFF IN THE HOUSE OR ENCLOSED SPACE, because at full strength, it smells just like American Skunk.

    I've started to buy .50 caliber ammo boxes to store my Mercaptans, Thiazoles, Thiols, and Pyrazine type molecules, they do a great job at keeping the super loud smells captive.


    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Benzothiazole is a sulphur compound found in coffee, but as I said, it isn't a replacement for furfuryl mercaptan. I would describe the smell as like quinoline, rubber, potato, molasses and of course, sulphur. It has a very dark smell and can be useful in coffee accords.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    coffee gc.jpg

    Thank you so much for the info, discovering Sigma Aldrich is a treasure all by itself, finding the different pyrazines was the hard part, the rest is dressing up the formula to make it more rounded. The GC for a coffee bean that they have at SA helped a lot too

  14. #14

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Hopefully you have a business that would be involved in using chemicals and can provide all the business documentation.

    If not, I'm afraid Sigma Aldrich is like a store with the most attractive things, that they let you peek through the window but buy anything.

    Even the easier companies will require commercial shipping address at the least, sometimes commercial billing address as well, and often tax ID and the like.

    I had all that (had to arrange for re-shipping to me, but still had all that) but yet couldn't get Bedoukian, for example, to sell to me because they said the company had to have the word "chemical" in its name!! Strangest thing I ever heard, just about.

    Anyway, point is, it can be difficult, I hope you are fortunate and have all the things they will ask for. That is a great place to be at.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 25th October 2019 at 05:42 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    Hopefully you have a business that would be involved in using chemicals and can provide all the business documentation.

    If not, I'm afraid Sigma Aldrich is like a store with the most attractive things, that they let you peek through the window but buy anything.

    Even the easier companies will require commercial shipping address at the least, sometimes commercial billing address as well, and often tax ID and the like.

    I had all that (had to arrange for re-shipping to me, but still had all that) but yet couldn't get Bedoukian, for example, to sell to me because they said the company had to have the word "chemical" in its name!! Strangest thing I ever heard, just about.

    Anyway, point is, it can be difficult, I hope you are fortunate and have all the things they will ask for. That is a great place to be at.
    Well, you just burst my bubble then.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Bedoukian now only sells by the KG, unless you pay a less than kg fee of $350.
    I lost my business address for receiving shipments from Bedoukian and Sigma, so now even purchasing from Sigma is very difficult.
    I am endeavoring to replace my receiver site, at a company with the word Chemical in their company name.

    I need to buy things, and I can't yet find a receiver site...
    Right now I'm trying to buy an ion exchange resin, and it's not even a chemical, and no one will sell it to me because I don't have a business address, this is really frustrating, because it's NOT EVEN A DANG CHEMICAL!!!
    GRRRRRRRRRR!
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenGSoHigH View Post
    Coffee drive me crazy, I'm mad with it since last valentine. I'd like to have coffee-woody fragrance for myself but I don't know how to start making coffee accord.
    I like the smell of coffee, sometimes ambiently drifting in the background, but I would never want to spray myself with a fragrance to smell like it.

    It's a little to overpowering and difficult when smelled up close, when you can't get the smell off you and it's perpetual and permanent.

    Just my personal take on the note.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    My experience is somewhat similar, parker. I love the smell of freshly brewed coffee in the air, but the taste is very different, probably due to the dilution factor. Some compounds become more noticeable than others at higher dilutions.

    An old lady used to make a great coffee cake when I was a kid, but I thought that it was some kind of fudge (not chocolate-fudge) cake. It wasn't until I was much older that I realised her secret. She simply used much less coffee than called for in the average coffee cake recipe. At the right dilution, it starts to taste less like coffee and more like fudge, caramel, maple, etc.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Also, a touch of maple lactone...
    Last edited by Geco; 1st November 2019 at 10:14 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Yes, maple lactone.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    Yes, maple lactone.
    Eek! I was looking for maple for my wood studies, was even shopping from perfumers apprentice and searched maple... search only showed flavors. But they do carry that.
    Thanks for mentioning, because I thought only immortelle was a good candidate, but I didn't want the curry part.
    This is a natural, that can be used for fragrance and flavors too!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Coffee and Tobacco accord.

    Glad to help. Yes, PA also sell it. You'll find theirs' listed under Methyl Cyclo Pentenolone.




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