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  1. #61

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News


  2. #62

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    For a minute there I though you were going to announce that you are closing or selling Basenotes. I'm glad you are sticking with it, even at a reduced level.

    I notice you are looking for solutions for the marketplace. As for news and reviews, you might be able to revive this later without you having to do it. There are people here who either have blogs or just write good review. Some seem to really like doing it. Maybe one of them could do it. Of course, as you said it still requires mental work/stress for you, because you are ultimately responsible. But I'm adding this just in case you want to revive this feature later.

    I get the impression from some of your posts that you will be switching software again. If so, why not ask for feedback from us before you do it. Some of us work with forum software and might have something helpful to add. And FWIW, one reason I come here instead of elsewhere is you use real forum software. Most other places are good for posting comments, but don't foster member interaction.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Thanks Andrew,

    I've backtracked on the marketplace (see this thread) so the main thing now is blogs / news. (The news part isn't going away, I'm just not going to try and update it all the time)


    Re: Forum software, I've dismissed VB5, as I don't think it's being looked after and spent time looking at XenForo and InvisionPowerboard. I've bought licenses for both and had a play, and XF seems like it would meet the needs. (I've also looked at Discourse, which looks wonderful but sadly runs on Ruby rather than PHP and I don't want to have to learn a new language at my age!)

  4. #64

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    I'm glad you are avoiding VB5. IMO, it's a disaster. It is not a successor to the previous VBs. It is all new code from different developers. It is still buggy. And it is not up to handling a community of your size. Not to mention that once you migrate your messages in, VB offers no way back.

    As you probably know, Xenforo is the golden child right now. From former VB developers, it soon got a reputation that exceeded it (based on developer reputation). But now its reputation is deserved. Especially in light of their finally fixing their clunky reply system. I saw one migration from VB4 to XF where they got everything in without a scratch. This included importing blogs into an XF third-party addon. And user groups into a third-party addon. And they migrated the news pages to WordPress. I was impressed that they got so much in so cleanly. The owner told me the integration with Wordpress was a tad dodgy. He said it was harder for him to get the formatting right. But all of the admins seemed to love it. I did see one comment later on about having trouble with third-party stuff that was not adequately supported. It all seems to be working still, but it might also be an ongoing headache.

    I would be happy to see XF here. There is a small learning curve for members finding new posts and get used to the user control panel. But I like some of the improvements XF brings. .

    Did you happen to look at Burning Board. It's a German board that's been around for years. But it recently entered the U.S. market with a major upgrade. They are taking on XF head to head by adapting some XF methods, and even improving on some. To which XF responded by adopting Burning Board's improvements. Good competition for XF. But even though I can't point to something worse about BB, I just could not warm up to it. Maybe the way it looks. Maybe the fact that there is not the kind of a thriving user community I like. Who knows. And I probably should not have mentioned it, considering that I prefer XF right now. But it is cheaper and I wanted to be thorough. And maybe better for you. But some of us asked theadminzone.com why they migrated to XF instead of BB, and they said because XF had more in common with VB, and so it was easier for them to modify and adapt to it.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    I saw this OP when it was first put out and wanted to take some time to clarify my thoughts before expressing them. I do realize that some of these points may sound moot now that we are already considering ways to keep the marketplace going, but I wanted to add some more ideas to the discussion anyway... and for posterity's sake... and YES, I have already read Plan C!

    1. I think there are a few very compelling reasons to keep the marketplace,
    2. a few reasons why losing it has negative unintended consequences, and
    3. I am proposing a few solutions for how we can keep it going plus concurring with others’ ideas... (posted into the Plan C thread)


    Buckle up, it’s a long one… To begin, I was really surprised to read the OP. I was not expecting anything like this so I can only assume that something happened behind the scenes to prompt the idea that the marketplace might be closed. I don't doubt the work/time/energy that's been put in, so please don't think I’m being ungrateful here, but I'm really honestly surprised and upset about this and I for one am certainly not going to just roll over and take this as it comes and say oh well it was a good run thanks anyway guess I’ll just shift off down the road… Things are always a work in progress, a development and change is inevitable, but I believe in moving forward with strength, not leaving others behind and I see a number of strong reasons to keep the marketplace, with some adjustments so it works better.

    1. I believe that the marketplace is an integral part of the community experience here, and removing it would overall lower the status, functionality, and community feeling if removed. Personally speaking, I almost never visit sites like Fragrantica, because even though there is a discussion board and directory, the missing marketplace is a big drawback. Of course their discussion is different, but my point is that the marketplace is something unique for Basenotes. In particular, the splits are rather unique too I believe. It’s a special added feature for our site.

    2. In terms of traffic, we have the discussion board, the directory, and the marketplace. Now of course the discussion promotes people to come here and talk, and to some extent someone googling reviews might work their way into the discussion boards, which I believe are really the heart of the site, but what are the discussions often about? They’re often about people giving their impressions of a scent they’ve just got a sample or decant of! I believe that the marketplace attracts a lot of new users who sign up just for that function, and ultimately end up in the discussion section, meaning the marketplace is a feeder system for the discussion board and new users. In fact, I’d say that the majority of users who sign up for my splits or who buy what I have for sale are actually zero post users! I’m not sure if you’ve seen or can see the stats, but I believe there is a very large shadow / lurker community of people who read but don’t sign up or post. Having to sign up to send a PM to buy something creates new users committed to joining the forum, and as they buy they often end up filling out the directory with reviews, or adding to discussion. So removing the marketplace will considerably taper off a huge source for the other two functions.

    3. I believe that the marketplace does in fact act as it was intended. It’s useful for old and new members alike to sell/buy or trade from their wardrobes. If anything I think it needs to be reworked to do this better, not abandoned because it isn’t optimal. A small point here but there’s a natural cycle that happens with collecting and for guys like me who’ve got a lot of bottles, at some point I start selling/trading backups, or decide I don’t want something, and my ‘garbage’ becomes some new person’s ‘gems’, so the marketplace offers a real value added for both sides. It’s a great place to move product between people and everyone is happy. It’s a chance to give back, or pass along some oldie but goodie, or a deal we find at a store somewhere etc.

    4. I’m not saying we’re any more important, but some of the community aspect here is built on older generations passing off information to new people, and for some older users like myself, at times the discussions can get boring or repetitive, so I personally end up browsing a lot through the marketplace as a change of pace. If it weren’t there, I’d stop coming to Basenotes as frequently, and maybe eventually leave. And who knows how many other older members would feel the same way. So removing the marketplace might have the unintended consequence of many current members leaving eventually.

    5. I think there is something special about the marketplace that makes us a community, a group of people who know and trust each other. So not only is it simply useful functionally, but realistically, it’s the best place to have a marketplace anyway. This is a concentrated community of people with a common interest, so our marketplace is unique and specific and caters to our needs. Does eBay function to sell XYZ? Sure, but it’s just a system for any sort of product and any sort of buyer. It’s simply a transaction hub. But for Basenotes, with the discussions and reviews etc next door, it often means there’s more trust / community feeling, making it more like craigslist and not ebay. There’s a community here, a give and take trade, exactly like the knowledge trade on the forums or reviews, but in the marketplace it’s directly with product. The marketplace amplifies the trust. Where in a discussion I may be flippant about a comment, if there’s money involved there are real consequences for doing a bad ‘job’ on your part.

    And people send more than just the product for cash in the deal. Through the PM’s back and forth we get to know each other behind the scenes. We send personal details, our lives, our history, our thoughts and feelings, and it acts to build relationships. Sometimes people add extra samples, or maybe they look at your wardrobe and get to know you and send something they think you’ll like. Then you get the package and read the reviews and then start a discussion about that new sample, etc. The PM’s create relationships, the ‘new’ item you get sparks discussion. The marketplace, discussion board, and directory all flow together. If I wanted an impersonal faceless transaction based on ratings and lowest price I’d go to eBay.

    And furthermore, I’d actually make the case that the deals done here are MORE safe because self-selection bias, so it’s probably more likely that the kind of people who sign up here are scent people, not just any Joe looking to rip someone off (see ebay), so there’s a natural selection of better quality people, and add in a few ideas outlined below like membership payment as a hurdle to qualify, or minimum feedbacks to sell, etc and it’s way safer than other sources.

    6. Isn’t this why we’re on the internet in the first place? Unequal access to information, like-minded people, local fragrances, etc… I always like to imagine that there’s a very nice young man somewhere who loves perfume, who’s passionate, thirsty for knowledge, and craves meeting minds like his, but he’s stuck in a small town in the middle of nowhere, with no fragrance stores nearby, and no access… Basenotes offers him a chance to read reviews, discuss and meet new people, and most importantly, finally get his nose on mind-expanding scents. Whether samples, decants, or bottles. Why get excited here and then have to turn to eBay or Perfumed Court to finalize the hunt? We all have access to different lines, so the marketplace allows us to buy and sell across time and space, from vintage carried forward to the present, from continent to continent. And the same goes for splits. Maybe it’s something rare and precious, like Norma Kamali’s incense, with only a few bottles and in a large format. Or it’s super expensive and potent, like Amouage’s Attars. The splits allow someone to access something they don’t have locally, or could never afford large bottles of, or maybe they already have a large collection and only need 10ml, so would otherwise be forced to buy a big bottle or not have it at all. As mentioned, many of the people signing up are complete new users, so they’re just starting out and splits are a great way to promote people getting onto the site to begin with and getting into the scent ‘game’. They can try the scent, eventually buying a bottle, they write reviews, start discussions, etc… The beauty of the internet is it brings together a community of people who care about same subject regardless of age, gender, SES, and most importantly location. The marketplace lets people in different areas access different things.

    Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts about why I think the Marketplace is an integral part of the Basenotes experience and if it needs adjustments so be it, but we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the EdC as they say.

    As for what to do about it… Here are my comments in “Plan C”
    Last edited by Master-Classter; 22nd June 2015 at 05:23 AM.
    Tom Ford Splits:Noir de Noir, Neroli Portofino, Lavender Palm, Plum Japonais, Champacca Absolute, Tobacco Vanille ONE LEFT: Italian Cypress, Patchouli Absolu, Amber Absolute, Tuscan Leather, Oud Wood

    Most of the time I am very proud of the Basenotes community. Time after time I have witnessed the thoughtfulness, empathy & genuine friendship that members of this community extend to others - oldtimers & newcomers alike. There are other times, however, when egos get the upper hand and civility goes out the window. My philosophy is that I won't say anything here that I would not say if you were standing in front of me. Welcome to Basenotes, each and every one of us. ~ TwoRoads

  6. #66

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_B. View Post
    I would be happy to see XF here. There is a small learning curve for members finding new posts and get used to the user control panel. But I like some of the improvements XF brings.
    Me too, I like the fact that it's the same developers as VB3, which for years was probably the best forum software around. It's also similar enough that the acclimatisation process won't be that hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Classter View Post
    ...

    Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts about why I think the Marketplace is an integral part of the Basenotes experience and if it needs adjustments so be it, but we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the EdC as they say.
    Agree with pretty much all your points. The marketplace is part of what makes this an actual community of people, and brings "real life" into it.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Thanks, Master-Classter: my thoughts on this issue are exactly as you've expressed!

    I'm so glad to see that we're heading for improvement, not abolishment, of the Marketplace.
    For swap/sale: Fougère Royale, AdP Colonia Club, Tauer Lonesome Rider, MDCI Cuir Garamante, vintage Tiffany for Men, 1 Million Intense, Montale Cuir D'Arabie, Bentley Intense, Prada Amber PH Intense, Prada Amber PH metal travel spray, Loewe PH, M7 gel, Roma (women's), Obsession, others.
    http://tinyurl.com/ju9yuu6 (swaps)
    http://tinyurl.com/hx7yws8
    (sales)

  8. #68
    Basenotes Junkie Timothée Kal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Somewhat late to the party but I just couldn't go by without saying a big THANK YOU to Grant for giving us a platform to share our passion and hobby. I personally really appreciate the effort you have put into the site to accord us an opportunity do what we all love to do.
    Currently wearing: Aoud Safran by Montale

  9. #69
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    I'm not happy about losing the blog. Isn't there something that can be done?

  10. #70

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    kumquat
    I was just going to ask (as a new joiner to Basenotes) what the Blog was for and now I see from your nice interpretation.

    I hope Grant that this transition works smoothly for you. I have only just joined Basenotes although I was reading it when it had not the last lot of software but the one before that.
    Currently wearing: Calèche by Hermès

  11. #71
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Violet View Post
    kumquat
    I was just going to ask (as a new joiner to Basenotes) what the Blog was for and now I see from your nice interpretation.

    I hope Grant that this transition works smoothly for you. I have only just joined Basenotes although I was reading it when it had not the last lot of software but the one before that.
    Thanks, Grace Violet, I got good news from Grant. He is not going to lose the blogs just yet and he's pretty sure the new program he's getting will allow for them, anyway. So I'm happy about that.

    I'm happy you found my blog enjoyable!

  12. #72
    Dependent Paul H's Avatar
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Thanks, Grace Violet, I got good news from Grant. He is not going to lose the blogs just yet and he's pretty sure the new program he's getting will allow for them, anyway. So I'm happy about that.

    I'm happy you found my blog enjoyable!
    +1-This is great news!

  13. #73

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Thanks for all these years Grant, and enjoy some rest with peace of mind.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Thanks for all of your work in this year. I appreciate you to spend free time for your family

  15. #75
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Thank you for all the kind words and jelly babies. Some of your posts make it seem that Basenotes is going away! It's not, and I've got some ideas that have been in my head for about ten years that I'd like to do on Basenotes.



    Ideally that would great. I do have a very nice lady (Judith), who does my emails and tend to the directory for a few hours a week, but It would be nice to have some more hands.



    I'm not going anywhere. I'm not qualified to do anything else!



    It's a nice idea but Kickstarters etc wouldn't solve the long term problem. The site needs to be sustainable on its own. People can become Basenotes+ members if they want to help, or if they are buying fragrances - do it through the links on the shopping or directory pages as that helps too.



    There could be a million mods looking after the marketplace, but ultimately the responsibility for it would still be mine.
    can we post blogs on this forum ?

  16. #76
    Moderator
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    There's the Shameless Self Promotion board.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Important announcement regarding Marketplace, Blogs and News

    Thank you Grant for all of the time and effort you've put into the site. I wish you the best of luck with your plans for the future of the site, I hope it goes smoothly.
    There isn't anything better than smelling good and being complimented on how good you smell!

    "We're not here for a long time, we're here for a good time." ~ Huey Lewis & The News
    "If you don't stop and take a look around once in awhile, you might miss it." ~ Ferris Bueller

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