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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Ok, cool, BK. I made a coffee tincture with some New Orleans coffee with chicory (CDM coffee, old school). Pretty cheap to make, soak the grounds for 3 months in perfumer's alcohol and filter through a coffee filter, then a level 1 filter to make it clear. Also, violet leaf is the darkest green... pitch back. Be light with it, it gives a pretty powerful green that can take over. It would actually work in the hay accord... the one I did above, replace the Stemone with the violet leaf... green replaces green.
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  2. #32
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    Ok, cool, BK. I made a coffee tincture with some New Orleans coffee with chicory (CDM coffee, old school). Pretty cheap to make, soak the ground for 3 months in perfumer's alcohol and filter through a coffee filter, then a level 1 filter to make it clear. Also, violet leaf is the darkest green... pitch back. Be light with it, it gives a pretty powerful green that can take over.
    I'm gonna dilute everything at 10% once it arrives. I've never owned any of these absolutes, so I'm just gonna go straight to 10%, and keep a small stash neat.

    I've never tinctured anything before, it sounds super interesting. I know if I tried to tinctured something ...I'd get addicted and start tincturing everything.

    ....I'd even tincture toilet paper, just to capture the essence of coronavirus catastrophe.

    Now I want to research how to tincture. This sounds fun
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkkorn View Post
    ....I'd even tincture toilet paper, just to capture the essence of coronavirus catastrophe.
    "That boy ain't right!" hahah. Tincturing is easy, even I can do it. But you'll likely just want to do it for what it really expensive or unique. Like I wanted coffee with chicory, can't find that anywhere else. And I only do vanilla beans and saffron, because those absolutes are either insanely expensive and/or impossible to find like vanilla is.

    Yes, toilet paper is hard to find also... and flour. Don't tincture flour!
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    "Hay" there, looking at Good Scents for hay odor I found a few things...
    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/odor/hay.html

    Tobacco, immortelle, liatrix (that's "deertongue", it's very tobacco-y) and ambrette seed. Just thinking of of things that might complement... Like your hay perfume could have immortelle as a floral and ambrette as the musk type (which is Romandolide and Ambrettolide musks, along with a small amount of ambrette CO2 maybe). Then a tobacco accord. Just an idea!

    Also if you go here... https://www.fragrantica.com/ingredients-search/
    ... and search for "hay" notes in perfumes, there is actually a lot of them. Just to get some inspiration (i.e. steal)

    Here's two with "hay, tobacco and ambrette" as notes, just for gee whiz... (notice tonka is also listed in the second one)
    https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/...own-46453.html
    https://www.fragrantica.com/perfume/...ass-43627.html

    There's a good number of perfumes with "hay and immortelle" also... PLEASE don't do hay and toilet paper lol
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  5. #35
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    also... PLEASE don't do hay and toilet paper lol
    Muah ah ha ha ha
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  6. #36
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Holy Crapola! The absolutes arrived, and i was easily able to get them to a 10% solution each with no issues or making a mess.

    The Hay Abs is quite nice indeed. I can see this playing a small role in my Hay accord! A little will go a long way....this is potent!
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkkorn View Post
    Holy Crapola! The absolutes arrived, and i was easily able to get them to a 10% solution each with no issues or making a mess.

    The Hay Abs is quite nice indeed. I can see this playing a small role in my Hay accord! A little will go a long way....this is potent!
    Cool, that was quick. Glad you abandoned the toilet paper perfume. So are you trying immorelle with it? Immortelle is a really nice floral and it matches hay well, similar nuances in them.
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  8. #38
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    Cool, that was quick. Glad you abandoned the toilet paper perfume. So are you trying immorelle with it? Immortelle is a really nice floral and it matches hay well, similar nuances in them.
    I dont have Immortelle right now, so im just playing around with the following as we speak, trying to find the right balance with just these below:

    - Hay absolute
    - Dry grass essence
    - Helional
    - Coumarin
    - Iso Eugenol (trace amounts)

    EDIT:

    So far ive come up with (formula excluding all dilutions):

    Hay Absolute (France) ----------- 109
    Dry Grass Essence---------------- 629
    HELIONAL (IFF)------------------- 209
    Iso Eugenol----------------------- 15
    Coumarin (crystal powder)------ 37

    ----Total: 1000

    But i need to let my nose rest and give this mixture a day to settle. Its close to what im trying to go for, but i fear i may have used a bit too much iso Euginol. I can sense that clovey, spicy tone poking through a bit too much. Need to re-sniff this and re-evaluate tomorrow. Possibly way too much helional too.
    Last edited by Bkkorn; 19th May 2020 at 06:33 AM.
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  9. #39
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    If money is no concern, you should also consider Genet absolute (Broom, Ginster, Furze, Gorse ). It´s wonderful effects in the middle are related to those of Immortelle within base.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Lavender abs dries down to hay
    Beeswax abs as well
    Liatrix from creating seemed to as well but I have only smelled it from there
    I have found that tinctures make my mixtures jump alive, but it takes a bit to tincture. If you can find a mixture of dried grasses , I would try it.

  11. #41
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Joedy View Post
    you should also consider Genet absolute (Broom, Ginster, Furze, Gorse ).
    When you say BROOM, you mean the actual utensil that you sweep with and a witch rides on? This is the kinda of 'dry straw' that im currently looking for. Right now, my above formula is nice after letting it sit overnight. But its lacking that dryness that you would see in a 'hay bale thats been sitting out in the sun for weeks'. Dont get me wrong, Hay absolute is great, but im seeing that it still has this damp earthiness to it...and not so dry that im trying to go for, hence why im adding in the 'dry grass essence' in hopes to dry it up to make it more brittle smelling.....but so far its not quite there in terms of dry and brittle.
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  12. #42
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkkorn View Post
    When you say BROOM, you mean the actual utensil that you sweep with and a witch rides on?
    With Broom (Spartium junceum) I mean something with a scent related to hay, not very sweet but warm, evoking wondefully a summer meadow.

    https://hermitageoils.com/product/ge...spanish-broom/

    And unfortunately not:

    ( The image which should be here has been captured by post #45 . To prevent repetitions, You can find it there :-)
    Last edited by Ivor Joedy; 20th May 2020 at 11:26 AM.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkkorn View Post
    I dont have Immortelle right now, so im just playing around with the following as we speak, trying to find the right balance with just these below:

    - Dry grass essence
    So is this it here?.... https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com...s-essence.aspx

    So it's a pre-made accord, looks like lots of stuff in it, based on the SDS. What is it like? Is it dry like cedarwood? I see a lot of benzyl salicylate (14%) so that seems floral and ochid-like.

    and hey, note that it's got coumarin and eugenol in it already. So you are adding both of those to the amounts in the grass essence. Just good to note. Maybe try it without the iso-eugenol and coumarin and see if you even need more clove aroma and coumarin in your accord?
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  14. #44
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    So is this it here?.... https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com...s-essence.aspx

    So it's a pre-made accord, looks like lots of stuff in it, based on the SDS. What is it like? Is it dry like cedarwood? I see a lot of benzyl salicylate (14%) so that seems floral and ochid-like.

    and hey, note that it's got coumarin and eugenol in it already. So you are adding both of those to the amounts in the grass essence. Just good to note. Maybe try it without the iso-eugenol and coumarin and see if you even need more clove aroma and coumarin in your accord?
    Yup thats the stuff! The funny thing is...its not floral by any means. Nor does it smell spicy. Possibly a small hint of coumarin detectable, yes.....but i dont detect euginol in it (or at least they must have dosed it real low)

    I really really really dig this premade accord they did. It captures the scent of what i would describe as "a large pile of lawn grass clippings that sat in the sun for days, completely dried out and is now scratchy", type of scent. Its not a fresh green by any means. Its a dead, dry green, ...that turned yellow and brown and all dried up.
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  15. #45
    Super Member Bkkorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Joedy View Post

    And unfortunately not:

    Bah hahah ahaha ha a!
    ...bathing in perfumes...

  16. #46
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default In Quest of Dry

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkkorn View Post
    - Dry grass essence
    I have not tried it yet, but within the hay aspects, some perfumers describe flouve (EO, absolute) as pretty dry. (Anyway it will dry out your wallet.)

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    In a nutshell, for the sake of your welfare stay away from hay. Fresh dry or any. Although being snatched by a sorcière has its perks.

  18. #48
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default Stay away of Hay

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    In a nutshell, for the sake of your welfare stay away from hay. .
    I like hay a lot, especially with Cistus, some woods or resins and musks. It smells wonderfully dry of herbs,
    meadows or barn yards. At the same time I don't like the fact that it often smells of wet, rotting grass etc. It is
    like drawing wirh blurred colors.

      If you advise against hay, what do yo recommend to replace it. Coumarin? Some other ACs?
    Can hay be completely replaced?

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Stay away of Hay

    I like hay too. Quite a bit; my comment was a failed attempt to be funny. Variable quality, dark colour and the price could restrict its applications though.

    I could imagine to replace hay by maté, which I like even more, but I know only the Symrise base and my own extract. And it isn't exactly cheap either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Joedy View Post
    I like hay a lot, especially with Cistus, (...)
    In this case you could consider Roman chamomile. I have one from Taoasis (still from the time they supplied pharmacies only) and would definitely restock it.

  20. #50
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stay away of Hay

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    ... In this case you could consider Roman chamomile. I have one from Taoasis (still from the time they supplied pharmacies only) and would definitely restock it.
    Hmm, I have Roman chamomile EO but have considered it as top-to-middle note in contrast to Hay abs beeing more of a base note. I have also never tried Henna. Didn´t know about "shop.taoasis.com", thank you. I have to admit that I have found almost no use for chamomile so far.

    - Roman chamomile: 5 ml 13,90 https://www.dragonspice.de/naturkosm...hparam=Kamille
    - Hay abs, french: 5 ml 36,40 https://essence.de/produkt/heu-absolue/
    - Flouve EO: 5 ml 35,00 https://hermitageoils.com/product/flouve-essential-oil/
    - Flouve abs: 5 ml 32,70 https://essence.de/produkt/flouve-absolue/

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    One more possible ingredient, sideritis aka: ironwort, shepherd's tea, mountain tea. It's warm herbal, a little minty, but not as strong as chamomile so it might work for fresh hay. Unfortunately, I couldn't source an absolute. I'm considering to extract it myself.

  22. #52
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default What is Candeia ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    One more possible ingredient
    As it seems something exists that can replace chamomile and should be less volatile:

    https://maienfelser-naturkosmetik.de...a-Combara-5-ml
    https://essence.de/produkt/candeia/

  23. #53
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    Default Re: What is Candeia ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Joedy View Post
    As it seems something exists that can replace chamomile and should be less volatile:

    https://maienfelser-naturkosmetik.de...a-Combara-5-ml
    https://essence.de/produkt/candeia/
    Those websites tout alpha bisabolol as the primary constituent of Candeia oil. And that alpha bisabolol occurs in Chamomile oil. "refer to chamomile oil, which similarly contains bisabolol." Uh, well, only maybe.

    Looking over three chamomile GC's from TGSC, you might have seen that two of them have zero alpha bisabolol, and the third has 0.51% alpha bisabolol.

    Which plainly makes Candeia oil NOT to be an equivalent Chamomile oil replacement.
    - consider doing a bit of research for yourself before making such an equivocative statement.
    Paul Kiler
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    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    I also don't see any Javanol, Ebanol, Sandela, Firsantol, Polysantol, Sandlore Iso Mohanol and crap load of other such in any GCMS of any sandalwood oil. GCMS has very little in common with physiology of human olfaction. Literally nothing.

  25. #55
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is Candeia ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Which plainly makes Candeia oil NOT to be an equivalent Chamomile oil replacement. - consider doing a bit of research for yourself before making such an equivocative statement.
    Thanks for explanation. But - I do not make any equivocative statements. I wrote "it seems" and "What is Candeia ?, indicating, that I don´t know; therefore I didn´t said anything about bisabolol etc. It must be possible to throw in ideas for consideration. OK, will make it clearer next time.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: Fresh hay accords

    This thread has been very informative! Thanks all
    Jamie O'Brien




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