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  1. #1

    Default LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    I've been reading some threads on peoples thoughts and opinions on differences between houses like Chanel, Dior, Guerlain etc. I noted with interest that some have suggested Chanel is the preferred of the 3 on the basis that its a stand alone producer and not owned by a conglomerate like LVMH. Not much can be found by googling the relationship between LVMH and the likes of Dior and Guerlain. Does anyone know if they are now just simply brand names living off their reputation and past glory, with direction coming from LVMH or are they effectively still their own separate entities? Is there any truth that in theory Chanel would produce a better fragrance being an independent company?

    Interested to read anyones thoughts....

    Tom

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Quote Originally Posted by muppet View Post
    I Is there any truth that in theory Chanel would produce a better fragrance being an independent company?

    Interested to read anyones thoughts....

    Tom
    What do you mean Chanel would produce a better fragrance being an independent company? Isn't Chanel independent already? Or do you mean if Chanel fragrances was independent of Chanel entirely?
    Currently wearing: Bel Ami Vetiver by Hermès

  3. #3

    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    I meant that Chanel being an independent company - might it produce better fragrances than not being influenced by LVMH. For example, Guerlains L'Homme Ideal would seem a fairly obvious attempt to cash in to the trend for sweet, gourmand type fragrances which for all I know is an attempt by LVMH to generate revenue or is Guerlain still its own entity?

  4. #4

    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    I don't know the answer but Dior seem less under the influence of 'shareholders' than Chanel and sadly Guerlain now

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Guerlain probably still has the most access to the best ingredients in the world and in all the quantity they need. The deal with LVMH gave Guerlain complete control over the ingredients they use. Most of these houses even many of the best niche, spend a lot of their time making fragrances that do well in focus groups. Guerlain, Chanel and Dior could all use some different approaches and probably will in the near future. But it's mainly about money, and fragrances with real character don't sell, so they rarely make them. Most people want stuff to cover up their body smells, but perfume is intended to blend with, enhance it all, not cover up those smells. Jacques Guerlain once said that he included the smell of his mistress’s backside in each perfume he created. As Chandler Burr elaborates in his book “The Perfect Scent,” Guerlain “was referring to all three holes.” Wish they thought like that today. You can bet many of them do, especially those around Guerlain. They have so many formulas to work with from the last hundred and thirty years. No telling what kind of amazing stuff could come out of that place if people got out of the way.
    Last edited by pluran; 5th August 2015 at 03:39 PM.

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

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    Last edited by rulopbo; 28th August 2015 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    I don't think Chanel is all that influenced by Guerlain or LMVH for that matter. Chanel won't introduce a new fragrance willy-nilly like Guerlain will.
    Chanel has it's own extensive library of resources and won't hesitate to use them. Guerlain seems to ignore its resources and prefers stumbling in the dark hoping to trip over the next best thing. Guerlain seems to be "resting on its laurels".
    Hell, in most Macy's the only Guerlain you will find on offer is Shalimar and yet you probably can get almost any Chanel.
    Chanel retains the cache' that Guerlain has lost.
    Currently wearing: Bel Ami Vetiver by Hermès

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    LMVM controls its whole portfolio of brands and allocates resources and directs development of new products. Early in the process, it appeared that LMVH didn't care about quality at all. Now things seem to have improved to some extent, though it feels that Guerlain is still direction-less, with most of the attention devoted to cosmetics (which bring in good revenues, apparently) and random releases of perfumes. Besides, IFRA has now ravaged Guerlain and Dior. While it isn't directly LMVH's fault, I fault them for not having lobbied - they simply didn't care. I feel that Chanel has been more successful in maintaining their stable. In recent years, Chanel seems to have separated its product line: shameless market driven (Allure, Coco, Bleu), and good stuff (now mostly in the exclusives). So there's the shameless part, but there's also the other part.

    I don't think it's entirely a matter of being owned by a larger conglomerate or being independent. It's also about business priorities. If Monsieur A doesn't care about perfumes per se, it's a tough one. But another conglomerate, Estee Lauder, seems to have done a better job; there was some worry about its acquisition of Le Labo and Malle, but for now it seems to be ok (though we might be well surprised). And similarly being small and independent is no guarantee either. Witness the historic brands resurrected by who knows whom and whose masterpieces have been defaced. (Caron, Houbigant, Balmain, etc etc)

    cacio

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

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    Last edited by rulopbo; 28th August 2015 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Quote Originally Posted by rulopbo View Post
    Same here... And I do think that we cannot find them, because they do not sell. The primary objective of a store is to SELL. If I had a store, I would place on display the products that I would be asked for. That is just the way it works
    In the few short years I sold fragrances Shalimar had a case of its own, and then it went to half a case, and then it went out of the case, and on to the backdrop(fragrance Siberia).
    Currently wearing: Bel Ami Vetiver by Hermès

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

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    Last edited by rulopbo; 28th August 2015 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Quote Originally Posted by rulopbo View Post
    Selling is THE BASIS if you want to have a company... whatever the company you want...

    Get a "good fragrance" from your past, dress it with a blue dress, name it Rogue and there you go... problem solved........
    So, the consumer suffer second-rate generic products

    I mean how much do you need to sell? When does it become greed and when are you pandering to other interested investors?

    It wouldn't be so bad if Chanel used some of their money to produce an alternative type of masculine once in a while
    Last edited by Kaern; 5th August 2015 at 05:24 PM.

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

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    Last edited by rulopbo; 28th August 2015 at 12:49 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    LVMH were classed as the anti christ when they bought a perfume house over. They slaughtered Shalimar in the early 00s, stopped using the finest bergamot and sandalwood. This was confirmed by Roja Dove when I spoke to him back then, cheaper ingredients being used. Guerlain insisted the formula had not changed. Thierry seems to have pulled the house back up again.

    They still have to answer for Givenchy, now its all generic boring fragrances.
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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post

    They still have to answer for Givenchy, now its all generic boring fragrances.
    I forgot about Givenchy! What a mess they made of that line. You're being too kind when you say "boring fragrances".
    Currently wearing: Bel Ami Vetiver by Hermès

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Quote Originally Posted by rulopbo View Post
    I see LVMH as a saviour for Guerlain... As it was once a saviour for Dior.
    As do I.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    So is the general consensus that LVMH has not negatively impacted the fragrances released by likes of Dior/Guerlain? Specifically in terms of quality?

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    My interpretation of all the answers above LMVH did negatively affect quality of Dior and Guerlain. But it's true that right now it's hard to distinguish LMVH versus IFRA. Between the two, I'd say Dior's classics are in a worse shape than Guerlain's, although most of Dior's privee collection is quite good.

    cacio

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

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    Last edited by rulopbo; 28th August 2015 at 12:49 AM.

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    Default Re: LVMH - Influence on Dior, Guerlain etc

    Even though I have nothing to substantiate this, I wonder if there has been some kind of behind-the-scenes power struggle going on at Guerlain.
    Currently wearing: Bel Ami Vetiver by Hermès

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