Code of Conduct
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 36
  1. #1
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Posting an article that appeared in Cosmetics Business last month.

    http://www.cosmeticsbusiness.com/new..._Xtreme/110417

    I understand that AmberXtreme might be one of the ingredients in Timbersilk...needless to say that I will try to get it in the store!

    Kind regards,

    Christine
    www.perfumersupplyhouse.com

  2. #2

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    How exciting!
    Has anyone here smelled it?

  3. #3

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I received a sample from an industry friend. Could sit at the bar with Ambermax, Bois Ambrene and ilk. Much more intense though. Would probably dilute to .1% to use personally. It's synthesized from Cashmeran I believe.
    You can check out my fragrances at www.garnerjames.com
    While I work on the website, you can email me for any inquiries at james@garnerjames.com

  4. #4
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I'm getting a sample, hopefully enough to share with some of you.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Christine Daley
    Perfumer Supply House - Fragrance Ingredient Boutique
    Find me on Facebook

    Text or What's App +1-203-917-0867

    JOIN MY MAILING LIST AND DON'T MISS ANOTHER SALE!

  5. #5

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    You can check out my fragrances at www.garnerjames.com
    While I work on the website, you can email me for any inquiries at james@garnerjames.com

  6. #6

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    How exciting!
    Has anyone here smelled it?
    IFF spent their entire presentation / demonstration at the BSP symposium in May on this material and I can tell you Extreme is quite appropriate: even the 1% dilution I came away from the symposium with is stronger than most materials at 100%. Tiny amounts have a significant impact and the enhancement effect on functional fragrances was clearly demonstrated to us in May. They sent us away with little bottles of a masculine fine fragrance too - one with and one without - the AE is only 0.01% in the Ďwithí but the effect is clear and positive. Iíve done a few experiments of my own that Iím pleased with too.

    Iíd have bought a Kg already except itís so powerful Iíve not yet finished the diluted sample!
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  7. #7
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,458

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Christine, place me on your list of buyers, please.. :-)

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  8. #8
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I've got the sample of AmberXtreme along with a rather huge list of other new samples from Firmenich and others. If you are on the PSH mailing list you received the list last night, please let me know if you need a copy of that email.
    Thanks!
    Christine

  9. #9

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by wooznib View Post
    It's synthesized from Cashmeran I believe.
    this is correct. But it's not the ketal like someone has stated...
    In fact the synthesis is identical to Trisamber, the only difference is an additional Methyl group, easily achieved by replacing one simple starting material. Amber Xtreme could therefore be called "Methyl-Trisamber".
    I've been wondering how long IFF keeps Amber Xtreme captive. Perhaps Trisamber will be discontinued in the long run, since Amber Xtreme has better performance and is therefore more economical. It was discovered after Trisamber was already on the market, probably this is the only reason both are available.
    Anyway, Trisamber is already very nice...

  10. #10
    Basenotes Member Bernie K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I am interested. Pls place me on mailing list.

  11. #11
    rickbr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    S„o Paulo
    Posts
    2,475

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I want some as soon as you start to sell it.

  12. #12
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    @Bernie-K You are already on my mailing list, can you confirm that you received my eblast I sent on 8/20 please?
    @rickbr, I will let everyone know when the material will be available.

    Thanks!
    Christine

  13. #13

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Received my sample of AmberXtreme today. Cracked the top open on the vial in the car (mistake) and thought right away it smelled like methyl anthranilate. My daughter gets in the car a bit later and states, "it smells like grapes in here." Just opening the vial left the car smelling of it for hours but can't wait to dilute it and assess it's effects. Interestingly, I read that it should be used with other musks to mask the scent of AmberXtreme so clearly it was designed as a performance molecule.

    As a side note, I asked Christine to send me a sample of Vetiverol vetiver ex Haiti and it is really very nice. Thanks Christine, can't wait to see the new website!

    Edit: 12 hours later and the AmberXtreme smells more traditionally woody and "ambery."
    Last edited by I.D.Adam; 5th September 2015 at 09:07 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Grapes, you say?!
    Adam, thank you for the quick review. It seems that this might solve my quest for the secret ingredient I was looking for in Alien by Mugler, many times so far. Many people mentioned grapes as the initial smell of that perfume and monstrous sillage. Alien was made by IFF, go figure!

    Gesendet von meinem SM-A300FU mit Tapatalk
    Last edited by perfectscent; 6th September 2015 at 11:24 AM.

  15. #15
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Hi this item will be available on my website and soon as I relaunch this evening!

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Christine Daley
    Perfumer Supply House - Fragrance Ingredient Boutique
    Find me on Facebook

    Text or What's App +1-203-917-0867

    JOIN MY MAILING LIST AND DON'T MISS ANOTHER SALE!

  16. #16

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Hi Christine. Any chance you could get some tetrahydro para methyl quinolone? Jamie has me thinking this is something I cannot live without.

  17. #17
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I've requested a sample and price from Penta!

  18. #18
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    I found some really interesting information on AMBERXTREME on the IFF website which can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/njlpajs
    Includes background of the molecule and some demo formulas.

  19. #19
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,458

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Reading the First Formula in the Presentation from IFF, it uses Lilial base and Lyral base.
    The Lilial replacer base is in the appendix, but the Lyral is not, and I cannot seem to find it on the website.

    Does anyone have it already?
    Hmmm...

    Thanks!

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  20. #20

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfumerSupplyHouse View Post
    Posting an article that appeared in Cosmetics Business last month.

    http://www.cosmeticsbusiness.com/new..._Xtreme/110417

    I understand that AmberXtreme might be one of the ingredients in Timbersilk...needless to say that I will try to get it in the store!

    Kind regards,

    Christine
    www.perfumersupplyhouse.com
    A bit of confusion on my part perhaps. My understanding is that Timbersilk is Patchouli Ethanone which is also IsoE. (Formula:C16 H26 O )
    I thought that this aroma molecule was singular and not a mixture(so to speak) . Am I incorrect on this? I don't understand how AmberX can be part of Timbersilk. Can anyone clear this up for me. Thanks

  21. #21

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post
    A bit of confusion on my part perhaps. My understanding is that Timbersilk is Patchouli Ethanone which is also IsoE. (Formula:C16 H26 O )
    I thought that this aroma molecule was singular and not a mixture(so to speak) . Am I incorrect on this? I don't understand how AmberX can be part of Timbersilk. Can anyone clear this up for me. Thanks
    The position isnít completely clear. However if you examine the MSDS / SDS for Timbersilk you can see that itís classified as a Ďsubstanceí rather than a Ďmixtureí, reflecting the fact that although it is still a mix of isomers, greater than 90% consists of the sum of those isomers: a single substance within the meaning of safety documentation at least.

    Looking at the Certificate of Analysis can give a bit more information - the CoA for one of my batches gives the following data:
    Beta-Iso-E-Super 40%
    Alpha-Iso-E-Super 22.97%
    Isoprecyclemone E 2.25%
    Delta Isomer 6.5%
    Gamma-Iso-E-Super 14.84%
    Sum of section 91.97%

    I must emphasise that this is for one particular batch - they are not all the same - nor are CoA always as detailed as this. The CoA for the new batch of Timbersilk that Iíve just taken delivery of brings the "sum of section" total up to 99.11% with a slightly different breakdown, but the key points Iím drawing out below still apply.

    From this you can see a couple of things that are important to note:
    First the gamma isomer is less than 15% - this isnít Iso-Gamma-Super despite the claims some people have made to that effect.
    Second, the total identified components is less than 92% - leaving over 8% of unidentified materials (or 0.89% in my current batch).

    Now, as perfumers we know that tiny fractions of a percent of a high impact material are enough to radically affect the odour of a blend so there is plenty of scope here for something significant to be present that isnít being acknowledged in the documentation (and of course does not need to be from a safety perspective).

    It is common practice in the perfumery industry to release a branded product containing a captive molecule before, sometimes long before, releasing the captive itself: it is speculated that this is what happened here and IFF used traces of what is now being sold as Amber Extreme as a booster to the performance of the Timbersilk mix of isomers. So far as I know IFF have not confirmed this speculation, and although Iíve heard it from a lot of sources, that might just mean itís a popular rumour without making it true. From an olfactory viewpoint though, it seems perfectly credible to me, given the power and effect of Amber Extreme.

    For comparison, the CoA for my current batch of Iso E Super tells me that it has 11.63% of the gamma isomer and the specification sheet for the Silvamber that I have just ordered says it has 22% of the Gamma Isomer.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  22. #22

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Thank you Chris, that really helps.
    So, although there is one molecular formula, C16 H26 O in this case, the singular substance (called Iso E) can be made of a collection of isomers of that molecule. It has to be over 90% isomers, or it cannot fall under the one molecular formula? Have I got that correct?

    I suppose the slow release of the branded product, first within a mixture, and then by itself, ensures maximum profits for that item? IS that the logic there?

  23. #23

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post
    Thank you Chris, that really helps.
    So, although there is one molecular formula, C16 H26 O in this case, the singular substance (called Iso E) can be made of a collection of isomers of that molecule. It has to be over 90% isomers, or it cannot fall under the one molecular formula? Have I got that correct?

    I suppose the slow release of the branded product, first within a mixture, and then by itself, ensures maximum profits for that item? IS that the logic there?
    I think my statement was a little misleading: so far as I know there is no particular threshold beyond which a material is automatically classified as a mixture rather than a substance, it is decided on a case by case basis. So for example cedryl acetate liquid is not cedry acetate crystals dissolved in a solvent (which would be a mixture) but cedryl acetate at 50% purity, so I would expect that to be classified as a substance, albeit at a lower than usual purity level. Unless the impurities carry safety implications they are not normally identified either.

    Fragrance material manufacturers are typically also makers of perfumes, so they have a dilemma with a new material that will usually have been very expensive to research, extract or otherwise manufacture. The first dilemma is whether or not to patent it: patents are published so if you do that, once the patent runs out anyone can make it (and in practice patents are not respected in places like India and China so others often start making it even before the patent runs out). Alternatively you can keep it secret and hope no-one else works out how to make it ...

    Either way you then have another dilemma: do you keep it for the exclusive use of your own perfumers (giving a competitive advantage to that part of your business) or do you sell it on the open market allowing your competitors perfumers to use it too but meaning you can make money out of selling the raw material.

    The release of a material inside a base is a compromise between the two positions: internally your perfumers can use the material in ways others cannot, but the captive molecule can still make money for you as part of a base that is sold to others. As with any business the big fragrance houses want to maximise the return on their research investment and these steps seem to be a successful way of doing that.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  24. #24
    Ingredients Supplier

    PerfumerSupplyHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Hi Adam,
    With regard to tetrahydro para methyl quinolone CAS 91-61-2

    I'm afraid this one is going to be out of reach as Penta is not able to send me a sample
    Here is the pricing for those who are interested.

    1 kg min. @ $1,850.00/kg

    Sorry!
    Christine

  25. #25

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Thanks for checking.

  26. #26

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    I think my statement was a little misleading: so far as I know there is no particular threshold beyond which a material is automatically classified as a mixture rather than a substance, it is decided on a case by case basis. So for example cedryl acetate liquid is not cedry acetate crystals dissolved in a solvent (which would be a mixture) but cedryl acetate at 50% purity, so I would expect that to be classified as a substance, albeit at a lower than usual purity level. Unless the impurities carry safety implications they are not normally identified either.

    Fragrance material manufacturers are typically also makers of perfumes, so they have a dilemma with a new material that will usually have been very expensive to research, extract or otherwise manufacture. The first dilemma is whether or not to patent it: patents are published so if you do that, once the patent runs out anyone can make it (and in practice patents are not respected in places like India and China so others often start making it even before the patent runs out). Alternatively you can keep it secret and hope no-one else works out how to make it ...

    Either way you then have another dilemma: do you keep it for the exclusive use of your own perfumers (giving a competitive advantage to that part of your business) or do you sell it on the open market allowing your competitors perfumers to use it too but meaning you can make money out of selling the raw material.

    The release of a material inside a base is a compromise between the two positions: internally your perfumers can use the material in ways others cannot, but the captive molecule can still make money for you as part of a base that is sold to others. As with any business the big fragrance houses want to maximise the return on their research investment and these steps seem to be a successful way of doing that.
    Makes perfect sense Chris. Thanks for your thought on this.

  27. #27

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post

    From this you can see a couple of things that are important to note:
    First the gamma isomer is less than 15% - this isnít Iso-Gamma-Super despite the claims some people have made to that effect.
    Second, the total identified components is less than 92% - leaving over 8% of unidentified materials (or 0.89% in my current batch).

    For comparison, the CoA for my current batch of Iso E Super tells me that it has 11.63% of the gamma isomer and the specification sheet for the Silvamber that I have just ordered says it has 22% of the Gamma Isomer.
    Hello Chris, thanks for posting the CoA data.
    But I have to disagree, these values actually support the claim that Timbersilk is the same as "Iso Gamma Super".
    It would be interesting to know the contents of your newest batch, especially the gamma isomer. "Iso Gamma Super" contains 18,2% of the gamma isomer, so ~15% is already very near!
    ISO E Super is said to contain 8,2% gamma Isomer, but probably the process has been enhanced over the years, so it's around 11% now.
    The other important Isomer is called "Arborone" and occurs around 5%. It can be called beta Isomer, but there is also another one which can be called beta. So I'm not sure which is which. Perhaps it's the "Delta" from your CoA, since 6,5% is pretty near to 5%.

  28. #28

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Timon View Post
    Hello Chris, thanks for posting the CoA data.
    But I have to disagree, these values actually support the claim that Timbersilk is the same as "Iso Gamma Super".
    It would be interesting to know the contents of your newest batch, especially the gamma isomer. "Iso Gamma Super" contains 18,2% of the gamma isomer, so ~15% is already very near!
    ISO E Super is said to contain 8,2% gamma Isomer, but probably the process has been enhanced over the years, so it's around 11% now.
    The other important Isomer is called "Arborone" and occurs around 5%. It can be called beta Isomer, but there is also another one which can be called beta. So I'm not sure which is which. Perhaps it's the "Delta" from your CoA, since 6,5% is pretty near to 5%.
    My assertion that Timbersilk and the material retained as a captive by IFF and referred to internally by them as Iso Gamma Super is based not only on the above data but also on a conversation with a senior IFF perfumer who was personally involved in the decision to release Timbersilk. He was in the business of selling Timbersilk to me and others at the time and assured us that while Timbersilk is not the same as Iso Gamma Super it is ďas close as youíre going to getĒ. He had every reason to encourage us to believe that what he wanted us to buy was the same as Iso Gamma Super rather than the reverse. I believe him.

    18.2% is a figure which Iíve not come across before so Iíd be interested to know where it comes from, though it looks perfectly credible to me.

    However if we are to assume that the difference between 18.2% and 14.7% (a delta of 3.5%) is negligible, then we would also have to assume that the difference between 11.6% and 14.7% (a delta of only 3.1%) is also negligible and thus, on the same logic, assert that Timbersilk and Iso E Super are the same ... clearly not correct.

    To answer your question about the current batch of Timbersilk (25Kg purchased this month) the analysis is:

    Isocyclemone E 43.2%
    Alpha-Iso-E-Super 21.86%
    Iso Precyclemone 1.38%
    Delta Isomer 6.37%
    Gamma-Iso-E-Super 14.22%
    Sum of Section 99.11%

    As you can see itís using slightly different terminology, with no mention of the Beta isomer at all - presumably what is now listed as Isocyclemone E - but the Delta isomer is present in similar proportions.

    As a matter of interest I was unable to detect any odour difference between the two batches of Timbersilk that Iíve given details for, though as David has already mentioned, these materials are notoriously difficult to evaluate.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  29. #29

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Hello Chris, thank you again for the data.
    I agree completely, the difference between 11.6% and 14.7% is not very much. Maybe the delta isomer is slightly lower in Iso E Super ?
    But even then the knowledge is incomplete. The numbers 8,2% and 18,2% are by Philip Kraft (Givaudan) so I guess they can be trusted. But maybe they just did a quick GC-MS run and didn't check the peak strengths for example by using a FID instead of MS. It remains a mystery. Personally I think the IFF perfumer is right: Timbersilk is already very good! Instead of a slightly enhanced version I would be more excited to see Georgywood released from captivity.

  30. #30
    Basenotes Junkie Serg Ixygon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    763

    Default Re: IFF commercially launches Amber Xtreme

    Should I understand the absence of review as a sign of dissapointments of Amber Xtreme?




Similar Threads

  1. Article: Xtreme Scents : Stages on Scent's Way
    By Christopher Peterson in forum Article Comments
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 27th January 2016, 09:11 PM
  2. Commercially successful scents not popular here?
    By domromer in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 20th May 2014, 03:24 PM
  3. Amber Amber Amber -- Your Favorite Amber Frag?
    By moltening in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 9th December 2013, 07:48 PM
  4. More Ava Luxe: Kama Xtreme, Fumari, Oude and Shisha
    By stevolution in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22nd March 2007, 02:24 AM
  5. Xtreme Scents - I like a big stink
    By Grant in forum Basenotes Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12th July 2006, 06:54 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000