Code of Conduct
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 52 of 52

Thread: Pine Note

  1. #31
    Basenotes Junkie
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    840

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Quote Originally Posted by cwf623 View Post
    Perfumers alcohol, but the absolute was so thick I couldn't get it out of the container to attempt to dilute it. It was the consistency of a thick tar.
    I used a small, clean, screwdriver to dig it out of the jar, and then stirred it into warmed alcohol until I had added the proper weight to the alcohol. It did take a while.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Yes, just use a small spatula-like tool (you can get them at a hobby store) and place it into the vial. You'll have to smear it into the side of the jar, then weigh, add the appropriate amount of alcohol and shake for all your worth for a little while and your good. You can warm the alcohol, very carefully, as Paul suggested to speed things up a bit if you like.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Arcadi mentions these novel chemicals you may want to try: methyl cyclocitron- herbal, dry leaves, dry fallen pine needles.

    Aranone-4 green natural pine notes

  4. #34
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Blythewood, SC
    Posts
    55

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Thanks for the suggestions...I'll give it another try using them.

    I appreciate the info Jamie.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Pine Note

    if you are looking for a lasting pine note: Verbenol Bedoukian and especially Cedanol Extra (Arbanol). Chemically this is "Bornyl ethylene glycol ether". Perhaps also Isobornyl isobutyrate (slightly longer lasting than the acetate)

  6. #36

    Default Re: Pine Note

    and regarding Pinoacetaldehyde: An old but excellent material. It's good to see it being promoted in IFF formulas, so I guess it won't be discontinued. It's very powerful so why complain about the prize ?
    But I don't consider it a pine note. The name stems from the chemistry only. There is also Pinoisobutyraldehyde, it's softer and longer lasting.

  7. #37
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Blythewood, SC
    Posts
    55

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Great info...thanks 'Timon.

  8. #38
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    132

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Hey David, I know this is an old post but I have a question and would rather refer to this thread as it gives lots of information. After looking over the balance of ingredient (green, aldehydic, resinous, woody) I had a couple details in question--
    1. Thoughts about using Bois Des Landes Robertet in a pine base accord?
    2. You say green... are you referring to the freshness of something like pine needle EO or rather the mossy aspects of the wood(evernyl, oakmoss) or something else completely?
    3. Would you recommend both C-12 MNA and Lauric for the accord?
    Just a couple small detail clarifications, the rest seems pretty logical though. Thanks for all the help on the DIY
    Cheers, Happy Perfuming!
    Will

  9. #39
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,724

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Quote Originally Posted by benjwi02 View Post
    Hey David, I know this is an old post but I have a question and would rather refer to this thread as it gives lots of information. After looking over the balance of ingredient (green, aldehydic, resinous, woody) I had a couple details in question--
    1. Thoughts about using Bois Des Landes Robertet in a pine base accord?
    2. You say green... are you referring to the freshness of something like pine needle EO or rather the mossy aspects of the wood(evernyl, oakmoss) or something else completely?
    3. Would you recommend both C-12 MNA and Lauric for the accord?
    Just a couple small detail clarifications, the rest seems pretty logical though. Thanks for all the help on the DIY
    Will, David Ruskin doesn't reply here anymore.
    If I may, i'll respond some thoughts.

    "Pine" is often not so about the wood, but about the freshness of the needles, based on limonene.
    "Pine EO" is not the wood, but the needles distilled.
    It is poor practice for there not to be proper identification of the source material in essential oils sold to the masses.

    Pine wood distillation is rare, and the only one is as you mentioned, the Bois de landes pine and cedar codistillation. It is quite smoky however.

    So, to dig under your question, you must decide what aspects of "Pine" you wish to work out and highlight, as the "green" is not really from the wood, but the needles.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  10. #40
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    132

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Will, David Ruskin doesn't reply here anymore.
    If I may, i'll respond some thoughts.

    "Pine" is often not so about the wood, but about the freshness of the needles, based on limonene.
    "Pine EO" is not the wood, but the needles distilled.
    It is poor practice for there not to be proper identification of the source material in essential oils sold to the masses.

    Pine wood distillation is rare, and the only one is as you mentioned, the Bois de landes pine and cedar codistillation. It is quite smoky however.

    So, to dig under your question, you must decide what aspects of "Pine" you wish to work out and highlight, as the "green" is not really from the wood, but the needles.
    Yes yes I understand, makes sense.

    I just wasn't sure what he meant by the green aspects-- that can refer to leaves, to stems, to herbaceous, etc. I assumed he meant the pine needles. I know that the pine EO Is from the needles, and as such it probably doesn't last very long.
    Thanks for the assistance Paul. I am going for an overall blend of notes to make a pine/coniferous/woodsy vertical accord for a cologne type, which will have grapefruit in the top notes with an elegant Minnesota North Woods type of drydown. Pine has a deep meaning of home to me.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
    Cheers, Happy Perfuming!
    Will

  11. #41
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,724
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  12. #42
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,724

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Does anyone know the primary long lived Little Trees car freshener odor molecule, by chance?
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Pine Note

    I heat the bottle to "easy" boiling... for 5-6 min. (Smal 10ml bottle) i can then patiently pour my needed amount over in a new bottle, and add the need alcohol. Dilute to 10%. Tried 50% earlier on, but that gets borderline messy.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Pine Note

    I've also used Siberian Fir. - To my nose, it's v powerful. It ain't subtle. For those who have ears to hear, its a kind of 'vindaloo' of firs.
    Works though :-)
    *** The Man in the Bow Tie ***

    Edmond Roudnitska: "A Life of Perfume" - Newly Published -
    http://www.lulu.com/shop/edmond-roudnitska/a-life-of-perfume/paperback/product-23790632.html


    Complete Steffen Arctander Volumes in Perfumers Library
    www.SteffenArctander.com

    Nose Tales (Récits de Nez) - 16 Video Interviews with Working Noses
    www.recitsdenez.fr

  15. #45

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Does anyone know the primary long lived Little Trees car freshener odor molecule, by chance?
    If you mean the original 'Royal Pine' variety, then the composition is a trade secret.

    However, it dates back to 1952, so unless it has since been reformulated, the possibilities would be fairly limited. Camphor and isoborneol were commonly used in pine fragrances and were cheap and readily available at the time (FYI, Febreze use 1-5% camphor in their 'Fresh Cut Pine' and 'Glistening Pine' air fresheners).

    Bornyl and isobornyl acetate were also commonly used at the time. Higher homolgues such as isobornyl propionate, isobornyl isobutyrate and bornyl and isobornyl isovalerate were also available, and may last considerably longer but you'd need to assess their tenacities for yourself.

    However, if they have since reformulated the product, then your guess is as good as mine.

  16. #46
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,724

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Thanks Pears, the scent is going well, I think the long lasting one is dextro laevo Borneol.

    Got to use five materials I've had but never used before to make it.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Yes, borneol was also used at the time. The reason that I mentioned isoborneol in particular is because according to Arctander (1969), it lacks the dry, peppery quality of borneol, and was also much less expensive. He writes of borneol for example:

    "Dry-camphoraceous, woody-peppery odor. The dryness is characteristic and constitutes the main difference from the odor of iso-Borneol....

    "This alcohol blends excellently with Olibanum products for "incense" type fragrances, and it forms a good background in many herbaceous-camphoraceous fragrances, Lavender and Citrus cologne types, many types of Room-freshener fragrance, Pine odor, etc."


    And of isoborneol, he writes:

    "Camphoraceous odor, not very woody, and not at all peppery. Overall more Camphor-like than Borneol.

    "Widely used in low-cost Pine fragrances (it is much less expensive than Borneol), Room spray fragrances, inexpensive Lavender, Fougere, and herbaceous type Colognes, etc."


    However, Schimmel & Co.'s 1936 price list shows that borneol wasn't much more expensive than bornyl acetate. Isoborneol isn't included in the price list. By 1967, the price of l-borneol and isoborneol were about the same. So, Arctander may have been referring to only the d- or dl-borneol being more expensive.

    I've been sniffing a sample of borneol for you and it's dryness is a little on the irritating side after a while, but that probably wouldn't be an issue after blending. So, both were used in air fresheners, although Poucher only mentions the isoborneol in that context ("theatre sprays").

  18. #48

    Default Re: Pine Note

    I suspect that you're not actually trying to recreate the Little Trees' scent, but just wanted something similar in terms of longevity. If so, then perhaps either borneol or isoborneal would do. Whatever works best for your accord. Some pines contain more borneol than isoborneol, and vice versa.

    When you mentioned that you wanted something long lived, I wondered if you might be thinking of selling a long lasting pine base, like your Long Lasting Lemon.

  19. #49
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,724

    Default Re: Pine Note

    No, Actually a Lithuanian client wrote asking for a car air freshener scent like little trees. I didn't bother to go buy one to smell, just decided to make one, and got a little help from a friend! :-) Second draft is not too bad.

    But another Perfumer smelled it yesterday, and said, "He'd wear it. " ! :-)
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Bornyl acetate is said to have a fresh pine note.

  21. #51
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,724

    Default Re: Pine Note

    Quote Originally Posted by parker25mv View Post
    Bornyl acetate is said to have a fresh pine note.
    Yes, Thanks, it was one of the first items on my list.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  22. #52
    Basenotes Junkie

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    parma
    Posts
    618

    Default Re: Pine Note

    A touch of sarriette base, also...? To my nose,very good and more forest/cortex/piney and less sweet/balsamic/incense in respect at fir balsam oliffac (however, fir bals is a good base)..




Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 31st March 2014, 06:53 AM
  2. TdH Flint = Pine?
    By SculptureOfSoul in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 18th December 2009, 04:07 PM
  3. Base note, middle note, high note etc etc
    By lejaimlefunk in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 3rd January 2007, 05:49 PM
  4. Looking for scents with Pine/Fir as major note
    By Jock_With_Scents in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 30th November 2006, 04:21 PM
  5. Pine
    By stevef in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 30th June 2005, 06:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000