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  1. #1

    Default Best solvent for candles

    Hi,

    I want to use a aroma chemical for a candle instead of pre made fragrance oil.

    What solvent can I use and or what high quality solvent for candles are used in candle making fragrance oil?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    The three best solvents to use for candles are Diethyl Phthalate , iso Propyl Myristate and Dioctyl Adipate.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    The three best solvents to use for candles are Diethyl Phthalate , iso Propyl Myristate and Dioctyl Adipate.
    David, Iíve seen you recommend dioctyl adipate as a solvent for candle scents before - itís not one Iím familiar with - I know the other two and already have them stocked as well but Iím wondering whether it would be helpful for me to get the adipate in as well (for my own use and to sell on to others):

    Could you expand on when dioctyl adipate is better than DEP or IPM in this context please?

    Also if you happen to know of a UK or EU supplier it could be useful as all the ones listed on TGSC seem to be the wrong side of the Atlantic...
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    David, I’ve seen you recommend dioctyl adipate as a solvent for candle scents before - it’s not one I’m familiar with - I know the other two and already have them stocked as well but I’m wondering whether it would be helpful for me to get the adipate in as well (for my own use and to sell on to others):

    Could you expand on when dioctyl adipate is better than DEP or IPM in this context please?

    Also if you happen to know of a UK or EU supplier it could be useful as all the ones listed on TGSC seem to be the wrong side of the Atlantic...
    David is obviously more experienced that I; but, I have used Dioctly Adipate for months now, and it works very very well. I tried IPM before (and ran out). David advised against using IPP (which I prefer for skincare formulas), and when I switched to Diopctly Adipate a strength difference in the burn is certainly noticeable. Also, it seems to be much more adept at dissolving solids than IPM (at least in my opinion). I have never used DEP -- so I can't comment on that one. Dioctly Adipate seems much better in all aspects than IPM; but, perhaps the reason to use the latter is for claims rather than for practicality. IPM can be made (in part) from coconut oil palm oil (myristic acid. Dioctyl Adipate, I would image, cannot? The reason to use IPM I would guess, then, is for marketing rather than for actual practical uses. Otherwise, Dioctly Adipate would win hands down.
    Last edited by George Tedder; 8th March 2016 at 03:07 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Thanks David for the quick reply..

    As Chris mentioned also. What are the pros and cons among these three solvents in your opinion? I'm interested in maximizing both the cold and hot throw. Do one of them work better in paraffin or soy etc? Thanks for all your help

  6. #6

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    David, I’ve seen you recommend dioctyl adipate as a solvent for candle scents before - it’s not one I’m familiar with - I know the other two and already have them stocked as well but I’m wondering whether it would be helpful for me to get the adipate in as well (for my own use and to sell on to others):

    Could you expand on when dioctyl adipate is better than DEP or IPM in this context please?

    Also if you happen to know of a UK or EU supplier it could be useful as all the ones listed on TGSC seem to be the wrong side of the Atlantic...
    I have no idea who supplied this solvent, I'm afraid. We used to use only DEP in candles, then several of our customers ( due to mis-information about Phthalates) asked us not to use it. We swapped to another non polar solvent, IPM. I don't know who it was who suggested we try DOA, but it turned out to be a better solvent than IPM. We tested a candle fragrance and used each of the three solvents at the same level. Out of the cold candle there was not much difference, but there was a huge difference upon burning. IPM produced a weaker fragrance than the other two. However IPM is, of course, very easily available.

    As I worked for a UK based fragrance house, I assume we were able to use a UK supplier.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovete81 View Post
    Thanks David for the quick reply..

    As Chris mentioned also. What are the pros and cons among these three solvents in your opinion? I'm interested in maximizing both the cold and hot throw. Do one of them work better in paraffin or soy etc? Thanks for all your help
    From my own experience Soy wax will depress everything. If you compare the same fragrance in paraffin and soy, soy will be weaker; especially when burning. One of the last jobs I had to do before stopping work was to modify a fragrance of mine as the customer wanted to change to soy wax. I had to up the top notes a great deal, and depress any base note. The fragrance was based around pine and eucalyptus, and it was necessary to increase the aldehydes (C10 and C12 MNA) to an even greater level, as well as reducing the Labdanum and Patchouli. DOA in a Soy wax will perform better than IPM, but both will perform better in paraffin.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    David, George,
    Thanks both for the useful analysis.

    Itís pretty clear that DOA (which still looks like Dead On Arrival to me every time I read it...) will be a useful thing to track down: If I can find a supplier and it isnít stupidly expensive (as things can often be when youíre not buying by the 200Kg drum) Iíll get it in and stock it so itís available for anyone to use.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    David, George,
    Thanks both for the useful analysis.

    It’s pretty clear that DOA (which still looks like Dead On Arrival to me every time I read it...) will be a useful thing to track down: If I can find a supplier and it isn’t stupidly expensive (as things can often be when you’re not buying by the 200Kg drum) I’ll get it in and stock it so it’s available for anyone to use.
    From memory it was about as expensive as IPM; that is slightly more expensive than DEP.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Hi David,

    I got my hands on DOA and will test it out.. I did read the MSDS for it and it made me a bit worried

    DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Classified Development toxin [POSSIBLE]. The substance is toxic to
    blood, the reproductive system, liver, upper respiratory tract. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce
    target organs damage.

    Inhalation: Allow the victim to rest in a well ventilated area. Seek immediate medical attention.

    Is this safe to have in a candle, will it produce toxic fumes?

    http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923845


    One thing to another, saw you are from North London. I used to live in NW, Queens Park, for 7 years. Still miss London a lot even though I truly enjoy the sunshine here in LA now!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Was not aware on any toxicity problems with Dioctyl Adipate, it was the candle solvent we used for all our customers. I don't know when this warning was first used, but when I was working (3 years ago) there were no problems with using DOA.

    I live closer to the East End of London, and have never been to Queens Park; I live in Haringay.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Hi David,

    Were you also involved in testing the fragrance with the wax? If so, did you do anything particular to increase the hot throw of your clients candles? I'm also interested in seeing if the pour temperature of the wax changes the amount of hot throw, or is that just more for the aesthetic looks of the candle (frosting, smooth tops etc).

  13. #13

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    I have no idea how the temperature of the molten wax affects the performance of the final candle; never having made a candle in my life.

    I was involved in the testing of all my candles, of course. A standard procedure is to test every fragrance in the base it was designed for, in case final modifications are needed, and so it is important for the Perfumer to be involved. If you are asking how I modified the Pine & Eucalyptus fragrance for use in soy, please refer to post 7 above. To begin I had the same fragrance at the same concentration put up in the customer's old base and their new Soy base. I compared the smell in the unlit candle, and whilst burning. We had evaluation booths in which to do this; one candle per booth. The booths were the same dimensions and at the same temperature and humidity. Thus a direct comparison could be made. From smelling how the two candles differed I was able to modify the fragrance so it performed in the new base as the unmodified fragrance performed in the old base.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Thanks for the insight David! Much appreciated

  15. #15

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    David, George,
    Thanks both for the useful analysis.

    Itís pretty clear that DOA (which still looks like Dead On Arrival to me every time I read it...) will be a useful thing to track down: If I can find a supplier and it isnít stupidly expensive (as things can often be when youíre not buying by the 200Kg drum) Iíll get it in and stock it so itís available for anyone to use.
    It took me a ridiculously long time to get round to it (sorry!) but DOA is now in the Pell Wall Shop.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    I was going to make thread on similar lines but I may as well post it here: for candles (and hair wax, which I've been considering) do the normal rules about top-middle-base apply? Given that the fragrance is embedded in a very thick, solid carrier, I was wondering if that acted like a very strong fixative, putting all the notes on a more equal footing.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    I was going to make thread on similar lines but I may as well post it here: for candles (and hair wax, which I've been considering) do the normal rules about top-middle-base apply? Given that the fragrance is embedded in a very thick, solid carrier, I was wondering if that acted like a very strong fixative, putting all the notes on a more equal footing.
    Candles and Hair Wax should not be considered together, and if you think for a moment about how they are used, you will see why. A candle works because when it is lit, some wax melts and fragrance evaporates into the air. Before it is lit, most of the fragrance is held in wax. Base notes are less useful but still have a place, simple for their smell. Hair Wax rarely burns or is melted when on hair, the fragrance evaporates from the solid medium. The wax holds the fragrance, Top and Middle notes are the most useful.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    So base notes are less useful for both?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    So base notes are less useful for both?
    Do not confuse Base notes with strength of smell, or indeed the type of smell. A Base note lasts a long time on skin, or on a smelling strip; that's all. Whether or not you find it useful when making a fragrance for a specific end product depends on what you want the fragrance to do.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    I understand, but I was wondering how embedding the oils in such a viscous material would affect the evaporation. Would something like lime be so fleeting mixed with wax?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Con-Li View Post
    I understand, but I was wondering how embedding the oils in such a viscous material would affect the evaporation. Would something like lime be so fleeting mixed with wax?
    Are you talking about a candle or a hair wax? As I explained above, the method of delivery will be different. Citrus oils don't work terribly well in candles as they are very flammable and tend to produce burnt notes when the candle is lit. In a solid wax base they work just fine.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 2nd September 2017 at 08:57 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Hi David,

    Just bringing life to this thread again.

    If I were to use DOA as a solvent for my compound, at what percentage would you recommend me to use? I have just gotten my hand on a bottle of DOA and want to do some testing.

    Once again, thanks for your expertise on this.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovete81 View Post
    Hi David,

    Just bringing life to this thread again.

    If I were to use DOA as a solvent for my compound, at what percentage would you recommend me to use? I have just gotten my hand on a bottle of DOA and want to do some testing.

    Once again, thanks for your expertise on this.
    There is no set amount, there is no set rule ( there never is). When making a fragrance designed for candles, use DOA in place of any other solvent you would have used for another application. Use DOA as solvent for the very strong ingredients you wish to use, and use it to bulk out the fragrance and round off the figures to make 100.0%. On average I would guess the amount used would be between 10.0% and 20.0%. Then use the fragrance at between 3.0% and 7.0% (absolute maximum 10.0%) in the candle.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Best solvent for candles

    Hi I am Raheel From Pakistan. Very new to all this. But I am starting a scented candle business in my country. I went to fragrance stores and all they give me is fine fragrances. I buy few 1 oz each and try them in parasoy wax candle. none of them perform well. i am constantly wasting money on sampling. Please guide me can i make a scented candle with just fine fragrance or i can buy fine fragrance and add which solvent ? please any help will be appreciated.
    Thanks




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