The smell of copaiba balsam

[Simbsp]

Hi,

does anybody here know the smell of copaiba balsam?

I recently bought some in a supplier of essential oil in Canada. I bought just a little bottle of 5ml to get to know the smell, but I wonder if it's real stuff I bought or a fake.

Arctander says it has a "similar odor to that of the balsam, but much milder, sweeter, almost creamy-balsamic with a faint peppery-spicy undertone".

What I smell in the copaiba oil I bought is a strong caramel-vanilla smell, almost cotton-candy-like. I do smell something kind of spicy underneath. Longevity is rather weak though and I would consider it a top note.

Can anybody help me?

[mjfinucane]

Copaiba balsam is not strong. I would describe it as a very mild, faint, balsamic-woody smell. Yours sounds very fake indeed.

[caribbeanisland]

Sorry to hear that, its very soft and mild, "kind" of sweet, but not even close to vanilla

[julian35]

I smell wood, laquerish, balsam, fruity, somewhat sweet, like old banana, like opening up an old desk. Your supplier?

[David Ruskin]

The description fits Benzoin (touched up Benzoin) rather than Copaiba.

[Simbsp]

The description fits Benzoin (touched up Benzoin) rather than Copaiba.

Yes, Actually, it smells like benzoin. But the longevity of the benzoin I have is long, the supposed copaiba I have doesn't last very long (max 1 day on a scent strip).

What could my supposed copaiba be made of? Because, I actually like it, but I can't really use it if I'm not sure what it is.

[David Ruskin]

Both Benzoin and Copaiba should last quite awhile. Your sample sounds more and more suspicious, I'm afraid. No idea what it is, however.

[Simbsp]

Hi,

I finally got copaiba balsam essential oil from another supplier (Creatingperfume.com) and it smells like most of the descriptions I read about copaiba balsam.

I have to confirm that, unless it was just a mistake from them, the copaiba balsam sold as natural one from botanicplanet.ca is a fake. And most of all, it doesn't even smell like copaiba.

[agroppe]

(snipped for brevity)

The copaiba balsam sold as natural one from botanicplanet.ca is a fake. And most of all, it doesn't even smell like copaiba.

ATTENTION: It's more than probable that these folks have been doing business for many years under scores of different identities. Good deals are great but here's a surefire way for newbies to detect pimps of fake products: Pick an exotic oil such as Red or Golden Champaca Absolute or Boronia Absolute. Then Google said product and determine the cost per ounce from ten to twenty website suppliers. When you see an exotic oil at + $750 an ounce or thereabouts on most websites, what does logic suggest when you run across the same advertised product on a particular website for less than $75 an ounce? It's called unscrupulous business practice. Run for the hills when you see prices too good to be true - you will only be left annoyed at yourself for throwing good money away!

[Simbsp]

ATTENTION: It's more than probable that these folks have been doing business for many years under scores of different identities.

Thanks for mentionning. I have found that www.sunrisebotanics.com, and www.botanicplanet.ca are probably the same people doing business on different names, For a long time (seems to have changed a bit now) the pictures for the same products were exactly the same on the three websites, and still the descriptions are strangely similar. Since I'm sure now that the copaiba oil I bought at botanicplanet a year ago was a fake, I wouldn't trust any of these three companies.

[marcio.leandro]

Copaiba is very cheap and popular here in Brazil, the chance of mine be fake is 0%. Smells like a spice wood, something peppery and sharp, a little sweet.
The smell is medium, and the persistence (substantivity) é very high.
Reminds me of old wood too.

[aromainquiry]

Thanks for mentionning. I have found that www.newdirectionsaromatics.ca, www.sunrisebotanics.com, and www.botanicplanet.ca are probably the same people doing business on different names, For a long time (seems to have changed a bit now) the pictures for the same products were exactly the same on the three websites, and still the descriptions are strangely similar. Since I'm sure now that the copaiba oil I bought at botanicplanet a year ago was a fake, I wouldn't trust any of these three companies.

With all due respect, New Directions has NOTHING to do with those other places, which are absolutely scam operations. Back when I didn't know what I was doing I did order some oakmoss and vetiver from Sunrise which were clearly (after comparing with real materials) adulterated. They likely had small amounts of actual material but mixed with something cologne like. As well, and a key point, NO MSDS data sheets. Whereas if you order from ND they have data sheets for every product along with GC-MS docs and tons and tons of customer reviews - including negative assessments, which is always a good sign. So no, New Directions is not associated with those two companies and its misleading to suggest that. However, as the other poster suggested Sunrise Botanics, Botanic Planet and I suspect Rocket Robin not only all look exactly the same (same images, same content, same format) but you'll also notice the following: NO materials safety documents for any of their products, rarely any customer reviews except perhaps one or two that say the stuff is great (but NO description usually) and then as the other poster mentioned the prices are absurdly low. I would recommend, if you're looking for absolutes, to check out Eden Botanicals (which is among your least costly options for shipping to Ontario/Quebec). There's also White Lotus in the US although I have not ordered from them they're respected among the folks I know who have purchased from them. It's otherwise impossible to obtain high quality absolutes here in Canada, mostly likely because the materials are so costly. If you go to Eden Botanicals you'll note that some of the more precious / rare materials are frequently out of stock - that's normal for high quality aroma materials as the market is a tiny one and harvests vary from year to year resulting in smaller quantities and higher prices. Hope that helps?

[Simbsp]

Ok, thanks for the answer. I modified my previous message. So you tried newdirection? How are their essential oils compared to edenbotanical's?

I tried ounce to order from White lotus and their products are very good. They don't ship to Canada though, I had to rent a postal box in Vermont.

[aromainquiry]

I have been in your shoes so many times so I wanted to help! New directions oils are great. Their absolutes are OK. I have their Jasmine and Bulgarian rose absolutes and those are quite nice although the Jasmine has a slightly harsh edge. They also have a very inexpensive dilution of Bulgarian rose which is quite fragrant and works great if you are on a budge and not intending to make a rich perfume. Do not buy their carnation or tagettes absolute (they are awful. A friend bought the carnation and was very upset, he gave me a sample and it really was horrible). Their geranium leaf absolute is fantastic and amazing value. as for the essential oils its useful to read the customer reviews but also to know what the oil should typically smell like - many people buy EOs not knowing how harsh and terpenic they are in contrast with absolutes - so it might not smell very good but that doesn't mean it is of poor quality. Eden is premium quality and you are going to be paying a lot in shipping (whatever they quote you you have to double that as you are often faced with 'surprise' extra charges from customs - so if I paid 40$ to them in shipping I ended up paying another 30$ to Canada Post for the customs surplus). So keep in mind that those inexpensive samples from Eden botanicals come with a hefty additional shipping costs! I've never ordered anything from White Lotus although I have heard their products are very high quality. Anything you order will be hit or miss unless you are paying top dollar. But you do not have to purchase the 'best' of everything simply to create wonderful blends... there are so many wonderful essences out there that do not cost a fortune and impart some of the qualities you are looking for in some of the more costly materials! Give ND another try, I am sure you will not be disappointed. I've easily spent 4 or 5 thousand dollars on their products. I've been happy with everything.

[aromainquiry]

PS - my advice would be to bite the bullet and get a ton of samples from Eden so you can use them for comparison sake if buying from other vendors. I have all their tree essences including copaiba (although currently out of stock) - I'm not crazy about copaiba personally I much prefer peru balsam, but you'd need to go to Eden botanicals for that.

[aromainquiry]

PS - my advice would be to bite the bullet and get a ton of samples from Eden so you can use them for comparison sake if buying from other vendors. I have all their tree essences including copaiba (although currently out of stock) - I'm not crazy about copaiba personally I much prefer peru balsam, but you'd need to go to Eden botanicals for that.

my apologies: the copaiba I have is not from Eden (I don't think they have it) it was from New Directions and that is where it is out of stock.

[julian35]

Ok, thanks for the answer. I modified my previous message. So you tried newdirection? How are their essential oils compared to edenbotanical's?

I tried ounce to order from White lotus and their products are very good. They don't ship to Canada though, I had to rent a postal box in Vermont.

I have ordered many times from New Direction and have been satisfied with the product. Lately, I seem to be ordering more from Eden, but just the other day I picked up some Lavender and Fir Balsam from New Direction, and they are great. And I must add that they are less expensive considering the dollar exchange and the duty/tax when ordering outside of Canada. Fairly decent selection as well. I order FCO from them, and it is very affordable. Christopher at White Lotus has very good material and he is very knowledgeable, but unfortunately, no longer ships internationally as you indicated. Saffire Blue is also now carrying more inventory.

I have to agree with aromainquiry, the samples idea from Eden is viable and you know you are getting the real thing.

[aromainquiry]

Very true!

So you are are dealing with Saphire Blue? I have had so many issues with them in the past - they advertise things that are not in stock and then give you a hard time about getting them (and basically every bad customer review I have read is the same experience as mine). did you order something from them recently? I'd like/hope to think they were taking things more seriously. It's such a drag for us Canadians not to have any reliable sources for aroma materials (other than ND) and packaging (scent strips and so forth).

[joev]

there are cheaper options than Eden's and White Lotus, though not by much, I consider White Lotus Aromatics to be a crown jewel of EOs and Abs. I've purchased Ruh Kewda and other exotics that will only be used once or twice. Nice for making bespoke perfumes.

[posypusher]

i have been ordering oils from z oils on etsy. they sell small 1ml portions so one can actually do some of the absolutes on a budget. i have tried just about everything they offer and it is all great.

[parker25mv]

Have you smelled beta-caryophyllene before?
Go to a Walmart, if there's one near you and take a look at their cheap fragrance oils. The Cypress fragrance oil is heavily fortified with synthetic beta-caryophyllene (indicated on the ingredient list on the back). It's a warm rich woody smell that's a background note in the smell of Black pepper.

I'm not sure but I would guess copaiba probably smells a lot like gurjun balsam.

(Note: I've never smelled copaiba)

[Jbchi33]

To me, the copaiba I have smells like a dirty wood. Nothing clean about it. Sort of a dirty log you found in the woods.

[mindfulnessjewel]

The copaiba I have definitely does not smell vanilla like, fits the Arctander description. Quite confident it is authentic as I acquired it from Florihana, a brand that a lot of us aromatherapist buy from, although I’m not sure if the ones you get from perfumery supplies store differ from aromatherapy ones (unlikely)