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  1. #91

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    I understood Claire's article as stating that Umavijani is basically an entrepeneur and functions as "creative director," which means the fragrances are made by Robertet professionals (I assume that is the leading house in Grasse that is referred to, they also run/create for/supply Roja Dove, Miller Harris, Grossmith, Laura Tonnato and others)?

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    I'd heard of Dusita only once before, having received a sample of Oudh Infini... Apparently the perfumer is from Thailand and got started 6 years ago just experimenting on her own... completely self-taught. Much like Andy Tauer, another self-taught perfumer. It does seem like these kinds of perfumers usually have a long history of knowing fragrances and develop a keen sensitivity that enables them to create their own fragrances. But there is a science to the creation as well. Isn't it more than just "mixing up" a few ingredients? There's the stages of preparation. And you need to be very careful to avoid contamination. Tauer has a science background and knows all too well about laboratory protocol. What of Umavijani? Isn't it a bit arrogant and presumptuous to arrive on the scene with no professional perfume experience, no formal education, or any other discipline that might translate well to perfumery, and just whip up fragrances targeted to the wealthy? She's no Roja Dove... and yet she prices her creations pretty much in his price range.

    But just as with acting... where one could have little formal training but been so absorbed in the art from a young age, to then break out into commercial success and win an Oscar for their first performance, maybe Umavijani is like that. It seems several reviewers are fawning over her creations with rather strong enthusiasm.

    From what I've read, it's not like she has some dedicated perfume production shop where she's producing all of this on her own. On her own website she states she has collaborated "with a leading fragrance house in Grasse." So there is some founded professional production involved.

    I must admit, that my sample of Dusita Oudh Infini is impressive. I would buy a bottle of this, if it were priced 50% less!

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    I forwarded the link to this thread to Andy, in case he wanted to respond. I have attached his response - he stated he does not normally post on Basenotes himself as he doesn't feel it is his place to do so, but he gave me permission to post this response.

    --------------------------

    I appreciate that you posted my original blog post link to the article, and for letting me know about the discussion on basenotes. It is interesting to see how the fragrance community discusses these kind of topics
    .
    I feel sorry for Claire. If I wanted to review and critisize her article, I would have done so directly either privately, or publicly. Having said that: Luckily, we live in a free world where we are all allowed to write what we want and to criticize what we want. This is true for creators and critics.

    And I feel sorry for Dusita. I got to know her and we talked a lot in the past. I appreciate what she built and know exactly where she stands now. It will be very difficult -like for all new brands and for other small brands, mine included- to stay up there and see continued success. I wish her this success as she is a passionate, warm and enthusiastic person. I think that Claire’s article might not have helped Dusita in the end, but that’s another topic.

    What I also find amazing: How quick these discussions kind of go off topic. My original intention was to write my blog post about facebook marketing : I get a lot of questions from perfume lovers, asking me why they see promoted content from my brand there on facebook. To some it is disturbing. I wanted to explain this. And I get quite some emails from perfume lovers asking me directly to make draws again and I wanted to outline publicly why I basically stopped doing so.

    How perfume lovers come from there to statements that Tauer ‘s business must have been bad this year or that I am frustrated is beyond my comprehension. I am still super happy doing what I am doing. I am very blessed and can look back to an all time record year this year. I am very grateful for this, as I know that working hard is not sufficient, but you need loyal clients and a good portion of luck, too. It was a record year because we sold more of PHI- une rose de Kandahar than ever and because of Lonesome Rider and because international, non US sales have gone up. (the US niche market is not in a good shape these days…)

    It is funny. Looking back ten years, I have sort of a track record of doing things differently. If I ever come to the conclusion that I am better off with higher prices: I will go up there. If I feel that running my venture does not pay off or is not fun anymore because I do not have success: I will change or move on, leaving this part of my life behind. Life’s too short to stuck myself in a dying business. I can continue creating perfumes for the rest of my life knowing that not everything that I create needs to go onto shelves in stores.

    I think, at the very end, this discussion on basenotes might show that the community is not used to direct posts (by non native English speakers) about why a micro brand owner does things the way he does things and about shifts in the online communication that happens around perfume. Maybe I should continue talking about roses….

    But then : We live in a free world and in the end we can all learn a bit from these kind of discussions. They are eye opening and food for thought.

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by cazaubon View Post
    It was a record year because we sold more of PHI- une rose de Kandahar than ever
    I'm not surprised PHI - Une Rose de Kandahar has done well.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Thanks for channeling Andy's sensible response.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Why does he feel sorry for Dusita?

  6. #96

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Why does he feel sorry for Dusita?

    I think he meant something else.

    Lost In Translation

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I'll get deadidol to write an insightful piece praising both houses carefully but not too effusively. Somebody can get Josh to make a few tweets that are easily misinterpreted as being offended. I'll stir the pot at the right moment.

    We need to get an algorithm patent. If Facebook is able to steal our model to monetize temporary social conflict, blogs will once again have zero impact - trust me!!
    So I would encourage all Basenoters, indeed lurkers, to move up to Basenotes Plus to push forward this Noble cause.......
    Scarcity is an illusion. Unlearn it.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by FatCat View Post
    I think he meant something else.

    Lost In Translation
    I agree. I think he probably meant "I empathize with," as in, I understand her challenges. I assume it was lost in translation or that he used the wrong word, as he is not a native English speaker.
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  9. #99
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by purecaramel View Post
    So I would encourage all Basenoters, indeed lurkers, to move up to Basenotes Plus to push forward this Noble cause.......
    Because why shouldn't Basebook get a cut?

    bb_icon_325x325.jpg

    EDIT: corrected for color.

    bb_icon_green_325x325.jpg
    Last edited by Redneck Perfumisto; 26th December 2016 at 11:53 PM. Reason: color correction
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  10. #100

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Claire,

    Why are you not responding to my mails?
    I told you I would place the spotlight on your blog, in a "controversy creates cash" kind of way.
    Could you please pay me the €400 as promised, so that I can buy a Dusita?
    You can also pay me in samples.

  11. #101
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr1973 View Post
    I could have SWORN I sent you one or two samples a while back! And now, I have none They really are worth a sniff!
    You did not. However you did send me some samples of Fragrance Du Bois scents that have me swooning!
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  12. #102
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    Claire,

    Why are you not responding to my mails?
    I told you I would place the spotlight on your blog, in a "controversy creates cash" kind of way.
    Could you please pay me the €400 as promised, so that I can buy a Dusita?
    You can also pay me in samples.
    LMAO!!!

    PS - if I ever buy a Dusita, you have permission to throw my bottle of L'Homme Ultime at me until I stop.
    There is no beauty / That cannot be more abused / To beauty's effect.
    / blog:// https://cologniac.com / raging for the machines

  13. #103

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    LMAO!!!

    PS - if I ever buy a Dusita, you have permission to throw my bottle of L'Homme Ultime at me until I stop.
    Join Date: Dec 2006

    We are now December 2016, I have been a Basenotes member for 10 years, and still active!
    I should at least get free Basenotes Plus!

  14. #104
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by cazaubon View Post
    I forwarded the link to this thread to Andy, in case he wanted to respond. I have attached his response - he stated he does not normally post on Basenotes himself as he doesn't feel it is his place to do so, but he gave me permission to post this response.

    --------------------------

    I appreciate that you posted my original blog post link to the article, and for letting me know about the discussion on basenotes. It is interesting to see how the fragrance community discusses these kind of topics
    .
    I feel sorry for Claire. If I wanted to review and critisize her article, I would have done so directly either privately, or publicly. Having said that: Luckily, we live in a free world where we are all allowed to write what we want and to criticize what we want. This is true for creators and critics.

    And I feel sorry for Dusita. I got to know her and we talked a lot in the past. I appreciate what she built and know exactly where she stands now. It will be very difficult -like for all new brands and for other small brands, mine included- to stay up there and see continued success. I wish her this success as she is a passionate, warm and enthusiastic person. I think that Claire’s article might not have helped Dusita in the end, but that’s another topic.

    What I also find amazing: How quick these discussions kind of go off topic. My original intention was to write my blog post about facebook marketing : I get a lot of questions from perfume lovers, asking me why they see promoted content from my brand there on facebook. To some it is disturbing. I wanted to explain this. And I get quite some emails from perfume lovers asking me directly to make draws again and I wanted to outline publicly why I basically stopped doing so.

    How perfume lovers come from there to statements that Tauer ‘s business must have been bad this year or that I am frustrated is beyond my comprehension. I am still super happy doing what I am doing. I am very blessed and can look back to an all time record year this year. I am very grateful for this, as I know that working hard is not sufficient, but you need loyal clients and a good portion of luck, too. It was a record year because we sold more of PHI- une rose de Kandahar than ever and because of Lonesome Rider and because international, non US sales have gone up. (the US niche market is not in a good shape these days…)

    It is funny. Looking back ten years, I have sort of a track record of doing things differently. If I ever come to the conclusion that I am better off with higher prices: I will go up there. If I feel that running my venture does not pay off or is not fun anymore because I do not have success: I will change or move on, leaving this part of my life behind. Life’s too short to stuck myself in a dying business. I can continue creating perfumes for the rest of my life knowing that not everything that I create needs to go onto shelves in stores.

    I think, at the very end, this discussion on basenotes might show that the community is not used to direct posts (by non native English speakers) about why a micro brand owner does things the way he does things and about shifts in the online communication that happens around perfume. Maybe I should continue talking about roses….

    But then : We live in a free world and in the end we can all learn a bit from these kind of discussions. They are eye opening and food for thought.
    Great post! I think the most important points are (1) that we presume too much personal and real-life dynamic behind small written things, and (2) Andy is surprised by the fact that talking about something as off-perfumery but otherwise non-confrontational as marketing generated this much angst.

    I do hope that Andy does continue to talk about such things. That is how we learn and grow. I also think that is what separates Basenotes from many other venues. We may joke around, get overly passionate, swoon at fragrance, and all the other things that happen elsewhere. But we also love to look deeply at things and discuss things at a high level, even being critical of ourselves. I think that is something that not only needs a home like Basenotes - it needs things to be discussed, even if in our oft-stumbling fashion.
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  15. #105
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    Join Date: Dec 2006

    We are now December 2016, I have been a Basenotes member for 10 years, and still active!
    I should at least get free Basenotes Plus!
    LMFAO!!

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  16. #106
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    Join Date: Dec 2006

    We are now December 2016, I have been a Basenotes member for 10 years, and still active!
    I should at least get free Basenotes Plus!
    You could raise that issue with Grant, either privately or in a thread. I'm not sure of the economics of such an offer - I'm not privy to administrative matters. However, it might or might not be reasonable for Grant to give the old vets a free ride.
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  17. #107
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    Talking Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Because why shouldn't Basebook get a cut?

    bb_icon_325x325.jpg

    EDIT: corrected for color.

    bb_icon_green_325x325.jpg
    Now that. Will have me Laughing for days. I am on board with that one. orange juice
    Last edited by purecaramel; 27th December 2016 at 12:39 AM.
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  18. #108
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by purecaramel View Post
    Now that. Will have me Laughing for days. I am on board with that one. orange juice
    We used to have a "like" button, and sometimes I still look for it. But the thing I love about Basenotes is that it's right out in the open. Facebook closed groups allow a certain kind of awesome humor, but they also hide so much information from the un-powerful, I almost feel like it's a black hole for knowledge.

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  19. #109
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by redneck perfumisto View Post
    we used to have a "like" button, and sometimes i still look for it. But the thing i love about basenotes is that it's right out in the open. Facebook closed groups allow a certain kind of awesome humor, but they also hide so much information from the un-powerful, i almost feel like it's a black hole for knowledge.

    Old green has a certain charm that never goes away! <------- something british, w/ or w/o etoh

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  20. #110
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    It is in human nature to fill the void created by a lack of information/context with extrapolations, assumptions and conjectures. Thank you cazaubon for posting Andy's response to close the loop. Absolutely agree with "life is too short..." not to spend it doing something you love. That's why perfume lovers like us spend an inordinate amount of time on these boards.

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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Andy, if you read this, thank you for taking the time to respond and clarify your intentions in such a civil manner. I, for one, appreciate it!

  22. #112
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Maillard View Post
    If there's anything confusing there, it's that passive-aggressive rant of a frustrated perfumer who owes pretty most of his (briefly-well-deserved-now-completely-undeserved-since-years) fame to blogs.
    You got that right god damnit. Spot on, now that it's not useful to him he is jealous that others are using it to greater success, whether also temporary or more permanent. It's a shame but it honestly sounds like his passion is on the downslope of an artistic business life cycle,
    Last edited by Mountainbikesandwatches; 27th December 2016 at 04:31 AM.

  23. #113
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Great to hear from Andy. I had a feeling US sales were languishing based on what I've been reading but good to know international sales has picked up for him.

    I wonder if what he meant by feeling sorry for Dusita, is that success in the moment is no guarantee of success tomorrow. It can change in a brief moment. The global economy still has much uncertainty to it. And perhaps the feeling is that she is basking in her present success and not knowing how tenuous it can be.

    There are some significant advantages to having a global economy, but it also means greater volatility. Even a smaller country with some struggles can push the markets downward with one heavy drop of bad news (like Greece defaulting on an IMF loan). Luxury goods often suffer... unless one is fortunate to get a solid footing with elite buyers who are well shielded from drastic market movements affecting them negatively (many are probably ensconced in hedge funds that thrive on volatility).

  24. #114
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    Great to hear from Andy. I had a feeling US sales were languishing based on what I've been reading but good to know international sales has picked up for him.

    I wonder if what he meant by feeling sorry for Dusita, is that success in the moment is no guarantee of success tomorrow. It can change in a brief moment. The global economy still has much uncertainty to it. And perhaps the feeling is that she is basking in her present success and not knowing how tenuous it can be.

    There are some significant advantages to having a global economy, but it also means greater volatility. Even a smaller country with some struggles can push the markets downward with one heavy drop of bad news (like Greece defaulting on an IMF loan). Luxury goods often suffer... unless one is fortunate to get a solid footing with elite buyers who are well shielded from drastic market movements affecting them negatively (many are probably ensconced in hedge funds that thrive on volatility).
    Interesting thoughts there!!!
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  25. #115

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    Great to hear from Andy. I had a feeling US sales were languishing based on what I've been reading but good to know international sales has picked up for him.

    I wonder if what he meant by feeling sorry for Dusita, is that success in the moment is no guarantee of success tomorrow. It can change in a brief moment. The global economy still has much uncertainty to it. And perhaps the feeling is that she is basking in her present success and not knowing how tenuous it can be.

    There are some significant advantages to having a global economy, but it also means greater volatility. Even a smaller country with some struggles can push the markets downward with one heavy drop of bad news (like Greece defaulting on an IMF loan). Luxury goods often suffer... unless one is fortunate to get a solid footing with elite buyers who are well shielded from drastic market movements affecting them negatively (many are probably ensconced in hedge funds that thrive on volatility).

    Yup, in these times the rich simply get richer. And unfortunately, the volatility makes most others more afraid to spend their money on luxuries unless they are an enthusiast, in which case they will look for ways to increase the value of their purchases. Here, splits, decants and high value-for-money vendors will get business but even enthusiasts often scale down their consumption to a large degree, either in terms of quality of quantity, or both. Items on the used market sell for less. We've watched the middle market fade in the last 8 years and if you're running a business it's important to move with the market or get left behind.

    IMO, it just doesn't make sense to enter a business targeting the middle market right now as it's overcrowded and failing, unless your product is head and shoulders superior to others, then there's always room in any market for your product.. It makes much more sense to target the more affluent customers, to produce products with much less restriction on cost. If Dusita was half the price they'd get some sales here from enthusiasts but imo it would fail overall as the price wouldn't be high enough to convince the more affluent that the product is worthwhile.

    My guess is the people who go into Harrods and spend $10k+ on fragrances generally don't post here and probably aren't enthusiasts. Value doesn't matter, getting something special does... and this is partly based on price as not everyone can afford high priced luxury goods.

    I tend to agree with Henry Ford, who increased his worker's pay so they could afford to buy a Ford car. He said something like it's better to have 200 people who can afford to buy a car than 1 person who can afford to buy 200 cars. But unfortunately, it's going the wrong direction right now and while you may not like it, if you're in business you better adapt to reality. I'm not sure Dusita had any other options, unless the intention was to make no money and fail.

  26. #116
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quite a few folks here on BN had in the past or have some sort of business of their own, and understand the dynamics of current rapidly changing market. Realities of the Global market are hard to swallow at times.

    I got a better understanding of what Andy 'truly meant' in his original blog post after reading his answer to cazaubon. Perhaps, a lot got lost in translation. He's right with that comment regarding non-Native English speakers.
    I understand well since I'm multilingual and I literally shift into a different mode- mental frame so to say- when I switch from one language to another.

    I also learned that I need to be a tad (even more) careful when writing on such a forum as this. Because, my candidly stated opinions may have hurt someone. They may not openly retaliate but they'll remember nonetheless.

    And I'll end the post with a quote,
    “In the end, despite all your careful introspecting, you pay for following your instincts. And the more intensely and honestly you live, the more incessantly you pay. If you have become that particular, irreducible person, you get precisely what you want but no more. This is the unforgiving truth.”
    ― Lee Siegel

  27. #117
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by purecaramel View Post
    You did not. However you did send me some samples of Fragrance Du Bois scents that have me swooning!
    well, damn.

    someone send this man some slumberhouse samples!
    Currently wearing: Tabac Blond by Caron

  28. #118
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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorje123 View Post
    Yup, in these times the rich simply get richer. And unfortunately, the volatility makes most others more afraid to spend their money on luxuries unless they are an enthusiast, in which case they will look for ways to increase the value of their purchases. Here, splits, decants and high value-for-money vendors will get business but even enthusiasts often scale down their consumption to a large degree, either in terms of quality of quantity, or both. Items on the used market sell for less. We've watched the middle market fade in the last 8 years and if you're running a business it's important to move with the market or get left behind.

    IMO, it just doesn't make sense to enter a business targeting the middle market right now as it's overcrowded and failing, unless your product is head and shoulders superior to others, then there's always room in any market for your product.. It makes much more sense to target the more affluent customers, to produce products with much less restriction on cost. If Dusita was half the price they'd get some sales here from enthusiasts but imo it would fail overall as the price wouldn't be high enough to convince the more affluent that the product is worthwhile.

    My guess is the people who go into Harrods and spend $10k+ on fragrances generally don't post here and probably aren't enthusiasts. Value doesn't matter, getting something special does... and this is partly based on price as not everyone can afford high priced luxury goods.

    I tend to agree with Henry Ford, who increased his worker's pay so they could afford to buy a Ford car. He said something like it's better to have 200 people who can afford to buy a car than 1 person who can afford to buy 200 cars. But unfortunately, it's going the wrong direction right now and while you may not like it, if you're in business you better adapt to reality. I'm not sure Dusita had any other options, unless the intention was to make no money and fail.
    Very well put! Dusita certainly seems to be well marketed... all of the higher end on-line retailers are carrying her product. It'll be interesting to see how the brand develops.

    I think Tauer is smart to stick with 50ml. This gives him the ability to set a higher price per ML without looking too out of place. But, he may benefit from doing an exclusifs line... something like 2 to 3 times the price. A number of other perfume makers are doing it. But I think it would also require Andy to step up his attire -- going from relaxed artist to tailored showman. Roja Dove is the Liberace of fragrances, and that's just a bit too far for most people... but whatever he's doing is working, as the elites are giving him a nice financial cushion.

  29. #119

    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Jesus, Cytherian, I've been trying to describe how Roja Dove is "too much" in every aspect, but now you just provided me with what I've been grasping for over the years with "Liberace of fragrances".

    Just my two cents: Over my life I have witnessed the cynicism of commercialism infiltrate and start corrupting many things I enjoy, like NFL Football, College Football, and now even high school sports (I still closely follow Texas high school sports, both boys and girls) and I have become less and less interested because I cant tolerate that insidious change in the culture of those things I enjoy. I get the same visceral reaction to what is happening in perfumes as well because it really comes down to me repulsing anything I sense is trying to exploit me.

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    Default Re: Andy Tauer destroys bloggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by HORNS View Post
    Jesus, Cytherian, I've been trying to describe how Roja Dove is "too much" in every aspect, but now you just provided me with what I've been grasping for over the years with "Liberace of fragrances".

    Just my two cents: Over my life I have witnessed the cynicism of commercialism infiltrate and start corrupting many things I enjoy, like NFL Football, College Football, and now even high school sports (I still closely follow Texas high school sports, both boys and girls) and I have become less and less interested because I cant tolerate that insidious change in the culture of those things I enjoy. I get the same visceral reaction to what is happening in perfumes as well because it really comes down to me repulsing anything I sense is trying to exploit me.
    I hear you. I think you just came up with an explanation of a good part of why I love fragrances that can be gotten at Macy's and Sephora, and which appeal strongly to new fragrance lovers. There is a certain relative innocence and purity to the love of such things, which almost anybody can own..
    There is no beauty / That cannot be more abused / To beauty's effect.
    / blog:// https://cologniac.com / raging for the machines




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