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  1. #1

    Default Natural plum accord

    Sorry, I posted this under a username I no longer use, so here goes:

    I'm looking to make a plum accord using natural ingredients. Any tips on what to use would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    I was used delta-decalactone, gamma-nonalactone, gamma-undecalactone, ethyl maltol and linalool for plum. Good also is small amount of eugenol like AC, trace of anthranilates, synthetics galbanum like dynascone and DMBCA/DMBCB.
    Good natural ingredients for plum accord is Myrrh, jasmine absolute, ylang-ylang Eo, Clovebud EO, Vanilla Tincture.
    Last edited by Kacper Kafel; 3rd May 2017 at 12:19 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    The request was for natural ingredients. Can't be done.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    What about things like black currant or osmanthus?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    The problem is osmanthus smells like apricot and leather, it will get you nowhere close. I supposed black currant will have a place but only the smallest from .01 to 1% ish. If your definition of natural includes found in nature, found in plums, or produced from natural isolates then you can do it. If your willing to stretch your definiton that far then you might as well use the best plum aroma molecules you can obtain like prunella and make the best nose tickling plum you possibly can!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Sorry, I should've been more specific. No, I'm not only limiting myself to essential oils and if you could point me in the direction of some good natural isolates, that would be great. Of course, if I have to use synthetics, which I have. that's fine. Right now, this is what I have:

    Datilat
    Prunella
    Pyroprunat
    Alpha Damascone
    Beta Damascone
    DBCB
    DBCA

  7. #7

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Ok some additional materials you might like are
    alpha and beta ionone
    dimethyl anthranilate
    prunol
    prenyl benzoate
    cis-3-hexenol
    gamma-decalactone
    linalool
    PEA
    Benzyl Acetate
    Ethyl Acetate
    benzaldehyde
    ethyl 2-methyl butyrate
    Ethyl Pelargonate
    citrolate
    Helvetolide
    raspberry ketone

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by texas28 View Post
    Sorry, I should've been more specific. No, I'm not only limiting myself to essential oils and if you could point me in the direction of some good natural isolates, that would be great. Of course, if I have to use synthetics, which I have. that's fine. Right now, this is what I have:

    Datilat
    Prunella
    Pyroprunat
    Alpha Damascone
    Beta Damascone
    DBCB
    DBCA
    For a minimalist and natural smelling plum note try mahagonate (get one without a peppery note) and Prunella, somewhere around a 2:8 ratio

  9. #9

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Thanks for the replies.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    "can't be done"....Plum trees and God giggle at that comment.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by darrylhunter View Post
    "can't be done"....Plum trees and God giggle at that comment.
    Try extracting the fragrance from plum trees then, and no doubt your imaginary friend will help you.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    I don't think that Darryl Hunter was in disagreement with you, David...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    I've never thought plums smell of much raw. They smell of greeness and fleshy sweetness, but this idea of plum that is perfume-based, of deep, rich,dark purple fruit - you get a bit of it if you stew them, but it is mainly the sugar reacting with the heat- so we're talking sweet, I guess. I've smelled dark, jammy fruits in fir balsam absolute, then there is blackcurrant, both the absolute and the natural blend ( which smells of wine gums in concentration, and gets grassier and finer the more you dilute it) , then there is yellow fruits, natural blends both apricot and peach, you could darken them with blackcurrant and fir balsam, get a boozy green note with green cognac, you might want to sniff cistus abs as a base note to carry it as it has a lot of overripe fruit in it, then you want a bit of mustiness, pettigrain and then leaf alcohol?

    Just guessing, but I reckon the whole idea of "plum" is in the imagination mostly. The raw fruit smells of fleshy green vegetation, sweet and mustiness.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Clare30 View Post
    The raw fruit smells of fleshy green vegetation, sweet and mustiness.
    Maybe you have different Plums than we have here in California...?
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Maybe you have different Plums than we have here in California...?
    The most intensely scented here are mirabelles - a small plum just a bit bigger than a walnut, but they are yellow skinned and smell of flower nectar and apricot. The big dusky blue ones don't smell of big dusky blue scent, to me. They smell musty and green raw and you get the red, sugared fruit connotation when stewed only. Maybe it's me.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Clare30 View Post
    The most intensely scented here are mirabelles - a small plum just a bit bigger than a walnut, but they are yellow skinned and smell of flower nectar and apricot. The big dusky blue ones don't smell of big dusky blue scent, to me. They smell musty and green raw and you get the red, sugared fruit connotation when stewed only. Maybe it's me.
    I second that

  17. #17

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Mostly plums here in the grocery store suck and have almost no smell, but when you get a ripe paper bag full at the farmers market, oh my...

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    so, being a California native, I know some about fruits,... there's lots of backyard fruit trees around here, and in the central state, orchards, looking quickly online, I see "California produces over 90 percent of all plums grown in the United States. According to the University of California Davis, approximately 250 varieties of plums grow here."

    But, I really don't have common names for ones we get here, but certainly there's a lot of variety. But just going in the supermarket here, you get the benefit of fragrant, ripe fruit. Not the fruit picked last month to ship across the planet, but the real fresh and ripe fruit. And they smell amazing. I don't think though that I know the Mirabelles though.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    I do know, from experience, that using a tincture of dried fruits that includes plums (prunes) can have an effect on a blend. However, I think all a tincture does is help to smooth out the rough edges and add a subtle change to the scent. You can't really make a note or accord per se out of a tincure, I don't think, unless it's vanilla tincture. I have smelled fragrances with plum accords in them and for the most part, none of them really have that authentic plum smell I'm looking for, at least to my nose and that was the main reason for asking about natural plum accords, especially since oils like black currant and davana both have a dark fruit type of smell to them. That being said, I greatly appreciate all your help.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    I would second Clare30 thoughts that just opened raw plums smell of greeness (hexanol, cis 3-hexenol, hexanal, trans 2-hexenal) with fleshy sweetness (γ-decalactone and fruit esters). The eight major compounds of ripe plums seem to be hexenal, butyl acetate, (E)-2-hexenal, butyl butyrate, hexyl acetate, linalool, γ-decalactone, and γ-dodecalactone.

    Regarding natural plum aroma, highest odor activity values (OAV, estimation of their contribution to the fruit aroma) have been found for ethyl 2-methylbutanoate (1837, green-fruity, reminiscent of the peels of unripe plums), hexyl acetate (1702, sweet-fruity berry, and pear-like), (E)-2-nonenal (1485, waxy and slightly green), ethyl butanoate (847), (E)-2-decenal (357), ethyl hexanoate (323), nonanal (300), decanal (260), and (E)-β-ionone (190). With odor activity values between 10 and 100, γ-dodecalactone, (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate, pentyl acetate, linalool, γ-decalactone, butyl acetate, limonene, propyl acetate, δ-decalactone, and diethyl sulfide should also contribute to plum aroma.

    Regarding dried prunes aroma, three major compounds are benzaldehyde, furfural and ethyl cinnamate.

    http://tinkturenpresse.de/doku.php?i...us_domestica_l

    Maybe this helps to get a direction?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by giftmischer View Post
    .

    Regarding natural plum aroma, highest odor activity values (OAV, estimation of their contribution to the fruit aroma) have been found for ethyl 2-methylbutanoate (1837, green-fruity, reminiscent of the peels of unripe plums), hexyl acetate (1702, sweet-fruity berry, and pear-like), (E)-2-nonenal (1485, waxy and slightly green), ethyl butanoate (847), (E)-2-decenal (357), ethyl hexanoate (323), nonanal (300), decanal (260), and (E)-β-ionone (190). With odor activity values between 10 and 100, γ-dodecalactone, (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate, pentyl acetate, linalool, γ-decalactone, butyl acetate, limonene, propyl acetate, δ-decalactone, and diethyl sulfide should also contribute to plum aroma.

    Regarding dried prunes aroma, three major compounds are benzaldehyde, furfural and ethyl cinnamate.

    http://tinkturenpresse.de/doku.php?i...us_domestica_l

    Maybe this helps to get a direction?
    A great bit of research, Giftmischer. I will read the link with interest later.

    This thread made me buy plums French plums, from a local shop in the French Alps ( I was travelling at the time) . I then forget them and left them in the car. Taking them out they are slightly cooked from the heat in the car. Still VERY green, kind of like musty green, slightly acrid undertone, and then breaking into the yellow flesh under the purple skin,. fleshy moist sweetness, no dark red fruit at all. If I peel the peel off the skin I get a darker tone on the underside of the skin - red grape-like, tannin, slight blackcurrant. But nothing strong.

    PK, when you say local plum fruits smell very intense, what connotations do you have of them? It could be perfectly feasable that the Californian varieties have more scent, similarly to the French variety Mirabelle has a more intense scent - just not plum.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    To me the scent of plums is Iris graminea flowers and the memory of my great-grandparents' shopping bags full of their "Italian prunes." Prunella gets close, and I'm taking notes from this to play around with for fall.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    I actually think that this could very well be possible to achieve, maybe not for the average person, but for accomplished perfumers/chemists. After all, you can buy mango, strawberry, raspberry, pineapple, and apple compounds that are made entirely out of natural ingredients, through the mixture of essential oils and natural isolates. If we can have these compounds, because mango essential oil, apple essential oil, etc. does not exist, then I see no reason why a natural plum accord using the same method couldn't be created. The use of natural isolates allows natural perfumers to stretch the boundaries of what mother nature gives them, because they can use the process of fractional distillation to isolate certain molecules out of an essential oil or group of essential oils and reconstitute them into an entirely different smell.

  24. #24
    mnaonbn
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Mod, please delete.
    Last edited by mnaonbn; 15th October 2017 at 12:02 PM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Natural plum accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Clare30 View Post
    I've smelled dark, jammy fruits in fir balsam absolute, then there is blackcurrant, both the absolute and the natural blend ( which smells of wine gums in concentration, and gets grassier and finer the more you dilute it) , then there is yellow fruits, natural blends both apricot and peach, you could darken them with blackcurrant and fir balsam, get a boozy green note with green cognac,.
    Could tuberose and maltol work into this as well...?




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