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  1. #61

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    I think it's worth mentioning that the Osmothèque, directed by the great Patricia de Nicolaï, adhered strictly to their current code of conduct and remained completely neutral in the whole affair. Secret formulae are all very well, but we had pristine unopened samples of IG and were helped by very skilled GC-MS which can tell you a lot about what matters in a formula even if you don't get every last little peak. But in the end, of course, it was done by smell, the best analytical tool we have. I hope the Osmothèque will add Iris de Fath to their collection, so the aficiòn will be able to smell it (and all the other marvels).

  2. #62
    Always be smelling

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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    Very expensive formula, gorgeous hand-made bottle, 150 pieces a year, etc etc. It was never going to be cheap. What route would you have recommended to Fath?
    Doubt the formula is $1700/ounce.

    I blame Roger Dove for this trend.
    1. Take a great discontinued classic
    2. Clone it using what is available currently
    3. Mark it up a million percent
    4. Profit


    Nothing wrong with it but a wise man once said (and I am paraphrasing) - A perfume should be priced around a nice dinner for two with a bottle of wine.
    Beauty needs no morality or righteousness.
    It, like nature, does not give a shit
    Currently wearing: Coriolan by Guerlain

  3. #63

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    I am sure Roja Dove will be glad to see his stuff compared to what Fath has done with Iris Gris.

    And as you say yourself, "nothing wrong with it".

  4. #64

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by epapsiou View Post
    Nothing wrong with it but a wise man once said (and I am paraphrasing) - A perfume should be priced around a nice dinner for two with a bottle of wine.
    Speaking of, you can imagine the hilarity at our table last night when the sommelier brought out a bottle of '06 Latour instead of the '09!
    "What are you trying to do, man. Kill us?" said the Earl of Chester.
    "Indeed! I hear that in Russian they call it Novichok!" I replied.
    "hawhawhawhaw"

    Incidentally, does anyone know what the original Iris Gris retailed for? Would be very interesting to know.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations


  6. #66

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    ...
    Incidentally, does anyone know what the original Iris Gris retailed for? Would be very interesting to know.
    To answer myself:

    d7a370d0481a8418ba567e41e8daa21f--jacques-fath.jpg

    This is an advert from c.1949. Prices for Chasuble and Iris Gris ranged from CAD $3 to $28.
    According to the Bank of Canada's Inflation Calculator, $28 is roughly equivalent to CAD $306 today.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    To answer myself:

    d7a370d0481a8418ba567e41e8daa21f--jacques-fath.jpg

    This is an advert from c.1949. Prices for Chasuble and Iris Gris ranged from CAD $3 to $28.
    According to the Bank of Canada's Inflation Calculator, $28 is roughly equivalent to CAD $306 today.
    Very nice detective work! So: high end, but not crazy expensive.

  8. #68
    Super Member zachong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    The proof lies in the smelling, but it's heartening to hear Luca and the judges giving such high praise... I wonder if it is indeed worth this student's kidney though.
    With such high praise, I must ask how similar, if at all different, are the vintage and this release? I understand great pains have been taken and apparently the best ingredients have been used, but the interview also states that due to IFRA regulations, obviously the formula, whatever it once was, cannot be the same. I'm curious as to the import of the omitted ingredients and their substitutes: does the result suffer because of that? Is it merely as close as one can achieve under the circumstances (ie. Wonderful, stupendous, yet a different animal and one would recognize the difference) or is it quite indistinguishable to your nose?

    It's a purely hypothetical question too, since a handful of people would get to own this and even less having smelt the original. It'd be great to hear from someone on the panel who has smelt both.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by zachong View Post
    The proof lies in the smelling, but it's heartening to hear Luca and the judges giving such high praise... I wonder if it is indeed worth this student's kidney though.
    With such high praise, I must ask how similar, if at all different, are the vintage and this release? I understand great pains have been taken and apparently the best ingredients have been used, but the interview also states that due to IFRA regulations, obviously the formula, whatever it once was, cannot be the same. I'm curious as to the import of the omitted ingredients and their substitutes: does the result suffer because of that? Is it merely as close as one can achieve under the circumstances (ie. Wonderful, stupendous, yet a different animal and one would recognize the difference) or is it quite indistinguishable to your nose?

    It's a purely hypothetical question too, since a handful of people would get to own this and even less having smelt the original. It'd be great to hear from someone on the panel who has smelt both.
    My understanding is that the only IFRA material was eugenol, and IMO there was too much eugenol in the Osmothèque reconstruction anyway. On the other hand the Osmothèque sample, based on the formula, contained a ton of beautiful iris butter and absolute. The sealed samples we got of the original thing were rather different, rather more violets than iris but had a wonderful, smooth base, not overtly lactonic, that was very stylish and distinctive. What Yohan Cervi and Patrice Revillard managed to do was to combine those two facets and merge a sensational iris butter and absolute note, with a superb background that does not scream either lactones or clove.

    I hasten to add, in case anyone wonders, that I had exactly nothing to do with any of the decisions about bottle, price etc and was not remunerated in any way by Fath, etc. This was, for the people ivolved in the analysis and evaluation, a pure labor of love.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    The original formula surely contained other verboten materials including nitromusks and animal-derived musks.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    My understanding is that the only IFRA material was eugenol, and IMO there was too much eugenol in the Osmothèque reconstruction anyway. On the other hand the Osmothèque sample, based on the formula, contained a ton of beautiful iris butter and absolute. The sealed samples we got of the original thing were rather different, rather more violets than iris but had a wonderful, smooth base, not overtly lactonic, that was very stylish and distinctive. What Yohan Cervi and Patrice Revillard managed to do was to combine those two facets and merge a sensational iris butter and absolute note, with a superb background that does not scream either lactones or clove.

    I hasten to add, in case anyone wonders, that I had exactly nothing to do with any of the decisions about bottle, price etc and was not remunerated in any way by Fath, etc. This was, for the people ivolved in the analysis and evaluation, a pure labor of love.
    Exactly none, to our complete surprise.

  12. #72
    Super Member zachong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Thanks very much for the detailed response, Luca. Looking forward to trying this out, and then maybe undertaking a loan
    I wonder how fast it'll sell. It's mindbogglingly expensive, but nameless billionaires the world over are quite hungry for these limited edition bottles as those by Guerlain and Grossmith, no?

  13. #73

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    The original formula surely contained other verboten materials including nitromusks and animal-derived musks.
    Sorry, replied to the wrong post: exactly none, to our complete surprise.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    Sorry, replied to the wrong post: exactly none, to our complete surprise.
    No nitromusks detected? For a '40s perfume that is very surprising. Hmmm.....
    Rania Naim mentioned Musk Tonkin as now missing, so animal-derived musks(s) at the least.

    As you know, Aurum International sells a re-creation of an old iris base that they claim made up 36% of the original formula. I believe it retails for around $15,000 per kg.
    Do you know/can you say if this was at least tested in the course of the project?

  15. #75

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    No nitromusks detected? For a '40s perfume that is very surprising. Hmmm.....
    Rania Naim mentioned Musk Tonkin as now missing, so animal-derived musks(s) at the least.

    As you know, Aurum International sells a re-creation of an old iris base that they claim made up 36% of the original formula. I believe it retails for around $15,000 per kg.
    Do you know/can you say if this was at least tested in the course of the project?
    I have seen the GCs. No musks in the real Iris Gris. I believe one of the competing perfumers approached Auram about this famous ORRISIDE 40770/D base, not sure whether they ever got any. I strongly suspect the stuff is an Arcadi Boix Camps fever dream.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Thanks, Luca.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Incidentally, every step of the recreation process was filmed by the Institute of Art and Olfaction, and Saskia Wilson-Brown and I are co-producing the resulting documentary which, with luck and money, will be released in due course.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    Incidentally, every step of the recreation process was filmed by the Institute of Art and Olfaction, and Saskia Wilson-Brown and I are co-producing the resulting documentary which, with luck and money, will be released in due course.
    May your pitch fall on receptive ears at the WPC!

  19. #79

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    May your pitch fall on receptive ears at the WPC!
    Thank you. I honestly have no idea whether the industry has changed and now gives a s**t about its heritage, and/or is prepared to have its history studied seriously. What I can tell you is that the Osmothèque stand was mobbed at Esxence, which at some point must translate into money, and that's a language everybody understands.

  20. #80

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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Good that the osmotheque is receiving attention. Their smelling sessions are wonderful. If I lived in Paris, I would go to all of them.

    I have only smelled the osmotheque reconstruction. Indeed, I had the impression of an iris bomb, eventually developing a thick, almost swampy base. So the new formula doesn't seem like a bad change at all.

    cacio

  21. #81

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Good that the osmotheque is receiving attention. Their smelling sessions are wonderful. If I lived in Paris, I would go to all of them.

    I have only smelled the osmotheque reconstruction. Indeed, I had the impression of an iris bomb, eventually developing a thick, almost swampy base. So the new formula doesn't seem like a bad change at all.

    cacio
    It will probably be in the Osmothèque v. soon!

  22. #82
    Always be smelling

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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    Thank you. I honestly have no idea whether the industry has changed and now gives a s**t about its heritage, and/or is prepared to have its history studied seriously. What I can tell you is that the Osmothèque stand was mobbed at Esxence, which at some point must translate into money, and that's a language everybody understands.
    I hope so. The quality back then was just amazing - not just that but the quality/dollar cannot be matched even with advances in chemistry and production sciences. I hope it is just greed that is responsible for this rather than a general decline.
    Beauty needs no morality or righteousness.
    It, like nature, does not give a shit
    Currently wearing: Coriolan by Guerlain

  23. #83

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    If I can give my personal opinion, I smelled Fath's Iris at Esxence. Just put a drop of the perfume on my skin and it disappeared after 20 minutes. Very very poor performance for a perfume concentration (well ok, this could have been about skin chemistry and whatever you want, but since when an extrait disappears after so little time?).
    In the meantime, what I smelled was nothing worth the hype. I've smelled the same fragrance in so many bodycare and homecare products I can't even remember how many... and also there, yes Iris Gris is from the 40s and then it really could have been shocking new etc etc... but nowadays this "reprint" in my opinion can be interesting only for historical purposes.
    In my opinion, the experience has been really disappointing, what remained on the paper strip turned sugary in a confectionery way I would call it "Candied Iris".

    Now, I must admit I haven't experienced the vintage IG but I am sure as well that very few can say they did, so my opinion is exclusively about this "fac simile" or "anastatic copy".

    And I must add I am not the biggest iris fan, to be honest. Well I am not a big fan of wine too, but I can recognize a good wine from a mediocre wine when I am invited to taste some... I have smelled more nice and satisfying contemporary iris fragrances than this one.

    And the price tag, I have no words.

    I wish everyone here will be happy with Iris de Fath. I can skip it.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilturko View Post
    I've smelled the same fragrance in so many bodycare and homecare products I can't even remember how many...
    You must spend a fortune on bodycare and homecare :-)

  25. #85

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    You must spend a fortune on bodycare and homecare :-)
    I'm sometimes surprised how often the above quoted products smell better than what's on perfumery shelves. Well I'm sure you know what Simmel wrote in his essay on fashion.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilturko View Post
    I'm sometimes surprised how often the above quoted products smell better than what's on perfumery shelves. Well I'm sure you know what Simmel wrote in his essay on fashion.
    No, but I will read it with interest. I will say, however, that the quality of iris used in Iris de Fath smells wonderful. If you don't like iris, that's of course fine, but there's no way a functional product smells like this, for a very good reason: the irone molecule has an oddly located methyl group that cannot be achieved cheaply. So whatever you smelled was not irone, and that makes me a little sceptical. Anyway, enjoy your sublime household products. Over and out.

  27. #87
    The Devil in the Details
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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    I won't pretend to know the import of Iris Gris' legacy and why a reproduction bottle should and does cost the price of a used 90's Toyota. However, like with so many things that have become more rarefied in time due to dwindling resources and cost of production, I'm sure the logic exists to support it's price tag. Any commercial products bearing resemblance to this are probably just mass-market chemists paying homage to their heroes, like with so many hand soaps and deodorant bars I've caught smelling like British Sterling or 4711.
    Last edited by Zealot Crusader; 10th April 2018 at 05:27 AM. Reason: I hate when I misspell things on tiny phone keyboards
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  28. #88

    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Unfortunately, the price will prevent the real perfume lovers from experiencing this scent. Screw the hand made bottle and the limited quantity, who gives a shit.

    Oh well.

  29. #89
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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    I won't pretend to know the import of Iris Gris' legacy and why a reproduction bottle should and does cost the price of a used 90's Toyota.

    Well, at least ZC didn't make any remarks about suffering a loss of Fath. I suppose I can exhale now.

  30. #90
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    Default Re: Iris Gris: calling all stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Cook.bot View Post
    Well, at least ZC didn't make any remarks about suffering a loss of Fath. I suppose I can exhale now.
    Making that kind of blasphemous joke would be, in effect, casting a shroud over Turin here.
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