Areej le Doré : The Official Discussion Thread

[Diamondflame]

Greetings, Basenoters.

I started this thread for us to discuss Areej le Doré fragrances seeing how much interest Siberian Musk has been generating recently. Secondly, as a favour to the perfumer/distiller Russian Adam who'd approached me to start a review thread after the one by Starblind got derailed by side issues. Basenotes has always been supportive of independent perfumers who strive to expand the boundaries of perfumery so I seek your cooperation to maintain civility. Please stay clear of potentially contentious issues and keep the discussions strictly to the fragrances created by this house. Do post your thoughts or impressions as I know some of you have received your samples and bottles.

Special thanks go to ClaireV and Starblind for bringing our attention to this house and to Siberian Musk, of which I'm now the happy owner of bottle no.38. You may find ClaireV's review here and Starblind's original thread here.


ABOUT the brand

Areej Le Doré represents an aroma and aura that is golden, highly pleasant, intense and beautiful; an extraordinary, well balanced melding of traditions from around the world. It combines the meaningful depth, aggressive intensity and simplicity of Russian culture, the mystery and luxurious character of Arabian perfumery and the delicate elegance, whispering charm and romantic beauty of French fragrances.

Through the use of nearly forgotten, rare ingredients of the highest quality, combined with innovative distillation techniques, Areej Le Doré aspires to return one to the ancient roots of perfumery, as well as revitalize the olfactory experience with a modern twist.

You may read more at www.areejledore.com

The Compositions

1. Ottoman Empire

Top notes: Jamaican pepper, cardamom, pure rose oil from Afghanistan, Georgia and Bulgaria, Indian rose absolute. Thai white rose, jasmine and frangipani water.

Middle notes: infusion of frangipani flowers, saffron attar aged over twenty years, three types of Indian agarwood oil, including traces of an Assam oud that is nearly two decades old, clean Indian vetiver, cinnamon and nutmeg.

Base notes: seven year old sandalwood from Bangladesh, Indian oakmoss, crude amber resin oil and sweet myrrh.


2. Oud Zen

Top notes: rare, wild Sri Lankan agarwood oil, Papua agarwood resin.

Heart notes: Indian oud and 20 year old Indian saffron attar.

Base notes: Indian and Indonesian sandalwood, clean Indian vetiver, tolu balsam, sweet myrrh and traces of synthetic civet and castoreum.


3. Siberian Musk

Top notes: Italian bergamot and lime, Indian mandarin, Siberian smoky pine. Freshly co-distilled hydrosol from exotic fruits and citruses.

Middle notes: a maceration made from legally obtained, wild Siberian deer musk grains, Moroccan orange blossom, Australian sandalwood, galbanum, cypress and a variety of spices.

Base notes: wild, green agarwood oils from Papua New Guinea, blue cypress absolute, patchouli, amber resin, clean Indian vetiver and Indian herbal musk attar.

[yarn]

So far I have tried Siberian Musk and Oud Zen - I will need to give them another wearing before posting any (usually way of the mark) thoughts but what I can say is that both of them last for ages

My wife wasn't too keen on the SM but she did like the OZ and while I like both of them, OZ is probably in front and may make its way on to the future purchase list

One quick note regarding the samples, they came within 5 days of ordering which I thought was pretty impressive

[Diamondflame]

OTTOMAN EMPIRE

Exquisite.

This floral oriental is clearly the gateway fragrance into Areej le Dore. A richly adorned tapestry of notes that wears on my skin like a living, breathing mythical creature of legend. I don't pay particular attention to official list of notes but I do get warm jasmine-tinted sandalwood, wisps of saffron and rose petals seemingly scattered over glowing embers and smouldering myrrh resins. And in case anyone is wondering I don't find it overwhelmingly floral or sweet.

The construction is sound, the composition somewhat conventional, nothing groundbreaking or controversial. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It makes Ottoman Empire easily wearable which is the sole reason why we wear fragrance in the first place, a fact some niche players seem to forget. The real stars of the show however are the raw ingredients used, a quality amplified quite brilliantly by the extrait-level 25-30% concentration. They bring impressive depth and nuanced complexity to a conventional composition.

Excellent sillage, adequate projection and stellar longevity. That last component is especially a bonus considering how exquisite the drydown can be.

Value-wise, $250-300 for 50 ml or $5-6 /ml may seem like a lot of money but do remember, this is of extract/perfume concentration and we know how much 7.5 ml of perfume can retail for. If I don't already have Siberian Musk, Ottoman Empire would have been my first pick. And if you miss wearing vintage florals, you have to try this. Perfectly suited for either gender IMO.

[Redneck Perfumisto]

If nobody has done so, I encourage a fan of these fragrances to submit directory entries here:

http://www.basenotes.net/contribute.php

When done, please mention it in the thread, so nobody will duplicate the entries.

[Diamondflame]

Thanks, Red for that link. If I don't get round to it, I'm sure someone else will.

OUD ZEN

Mildly fecal and barnyard-like in the opening, on skin Oud Zen reveals a shifting range of woodsy nuances ranging from darkly smoky, to parched and peaty, to soft florals and mildly creamy woods. On its smoky sandalwood phase it kinda reminds me of Chilum by La Via del Profumo.

As far as woods or ouds go this is a pretty solid offering but I prefer to have something else to 'chew' on with my ouds. I know civet and castoreum are both listed. They don't stand out nor should they but I think they give a little more of that cosy lived-in feel in the drydown.

[camorr]

I'm really curious about this line but samples seem out of stock.

[Diamondflame]

I'm really curious about this line but samples seem out of stock.

Siberian Musk stocks seem to be running low too. I suspect musk-lovers have been snapping them up after ClaireV's blog post and Starblind's recent thread. Apparently only 100 bottles of each were produced. Since samples of the other 2 are given with each bottle purchase that could have contributed to their running out. StC still carry samples of Siberian Musk the last time I checked.

[Scarce]

Apparently only 100 bottles of each were produced.

There's niche, and then there's ultra exclusive. What a rarefied world we perfume people live in...

[hednic]

Unfamiliar with this house but they sound very interesting.

[ClaireV]

OTTOMAN EMPIRE

Exquisite.

This floral oriental is clearly the gateway fragrance into Areej le Dore. A richly adorned tapestry of notes that wears on my skin like a living, breathing mythical creature of legend. I don't pay particular attention to official list of notes but I do get warm jasmine-tinted sandalwood, wisps of saffron and rose petals seemingly scattered over glowing embers and smouldering myrrh resins. And in case anyone is wondering I don't find it overwhelmingly floral or sweet.

The construction is sound, the composition somewhat conventional, nothing groundbreaking or controversial. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It makes Ottoman Empire easily wearable which is the sole reason why we wear fragrance in the first place, a fact some niche players seem to forget. The real stars of the show however are the raw ingredients used, a quality amplified quite brilliantly by the extrait-level 25-30% concentration. They bring impressive depth and nuanced complexity to a conventional composition.

Excellent sillage, adequate projection and stellar longevity. That last component is especially a bonus considering how exquisite the drydown can be.

Value-wise, $250-300 for 50 ml or $5-6 /ml may seem like a lot of money but do remember, this is of extract/perfume concentration and we know how much 7.5 ml of perfume can retail for. If I don't already have Siberian Musk, Ottoman Empire would have been my first pick. And if you miss wearing vintage florals, you have to try this. Perfectly suited for either gender IMO.

What a wonderful review, Diamondflame! I too loved Ottoman Empire, although I had to look up my own review to see what I had said about it. Damn, if I only had the money to buy that one too. But does your last sentence mean that, had you had the sample set first, you would have invested in Ottoman Empire rather than the Siberian Musk? I eagerly await your review of Siberian Musk.

By the way, Ottoman Empire is Russian Adam's personal favorite, he says.

[Starblind]

Thank you so much for starting this thread, Diamondflame! I think this house deserves every bit of attention it can receive.

I am now the proud possessor of TWO bottles of Siberian Musk and several large decants from StC, as I intend to wear this scent as long as I live! I would buy out Adam's remaining supply if it wouldn't render me homeless. Of course, others may not feel the same sort of new covert's fervor that I do about this fragrance, but there is simply something about this scent that leaves me speechless each time I wear it. And the dry down on my clothes is the most wonderful, intoxicating thing ever. Perhaps it's because I grew up smelling and wearing scents chock full of nitro musks and oakmoss and civet, and SB reminds me of these, but intensified. Plus, it smells like the most smooth and deeply musky chypre I've ever encountered. I adore it from top to bottom!

I also find Ottoman Empire wonderful, and if I were more of a rose lover, I would purchase a bottle of this one, as well. It's oudiness is thick and delicious!

My only wish is that Russian Adam were able to make an endless supply of these fragrances. I understand that the ingredients are difficult to obtain and that batch consistency might be impossible, but regardless, I have all my fingers crossed.

[ClaireV]

Starblind, Adam told me that with regards to Siberian Musk, once it's gone, it's gone, because the tincture from that particular batch of Siberian musk grains all got used to make the limited run of SM. Given that musk grains smell slightly different from pod to pod, he said he would prefer to do a completely different composition using the next batch of musk and also name it differently, so as to not get into all that batch nonsense that surrounds Aventus. I can understand this from both the artistic and business point of view. But I guess the message is that if you love Siberian Musk, then buy it, because the next musk perfume, whatever it might turn out to be, might not be as exactly like this particular one. On the other hand, it might be even better!

[Starblind]

Starblind, Adam told me that with regards to Siberian Musk, once it's gone, it's gone, because the tincture from that particular batch of Siberian musk grains all got used to make the limited run of SM. Given that musk grains smell slightly different from pod to pod, he said he would prefer to do a completely different composition using the next batch of musk and also name it differently, so as to not get into all that batch nonsense that surrounds Aventus. I can understand this from both the artistic and business point of view. But I guess the message is that if you love Siberian Musk, then buy it, because the next musk perfume, whatever it might turn out to be, might not be as exactly like this particular one. On the other hand, it might be even better!

Thanks for this definitive answer, ClaireV! (Even though it's a sad one to me.) I can't quite imagine a better version of Siberian Musk, but obviously I hadn't envisioned the wonder of this one, so here's holding out hope that the next iteration is even more amazing!

(Meanwhile, I'll be scrounging up every last shekel and couch cushion coin for yet another bottle of the current version.)

[epapsiou]

Man you guys are killing me. But cannot do $300 blind buy. The sample pack is OOS.
Oh well will wait for next batch.

[camorr]

Is there any extra customs charges on orders from EU(Germany)?

[Diamondflame]

Not trying to hype up this house or anything, but Ottoman Empire almost feels like a vintage French perfume with a Middle Eastern twist, incorporating ouds, resins and spices. Not sure which particular aspect is Russian since I'm not at all familiar with Russian style of perfumery.

But does your last sentence mean that, had you had the sample set first, you would have invested in Ottoman Empire rather than the Siberian Musk?.

I would have picked up both. A high calibre fragrance with real musk is the proverbial unicorn in my fragrance journey so I did not hesitate to blind buy Siberian Musk on the strength of 2 BNers' glowing account. I'm wearing it again today to get a better grip before penning my thoughts, basically taking my own sweet time with it as I have little affinity for spicy masculines. It's the drydown I'm most interested in with options for layering. I've heard claims of real musk scents lasting for years on fabric so I'm really looking forward to your musk article.

[Diamondflame]

SIBERIAN MUSK

Opens with a spiced lime/ citrus accord I don't particularly care for. It smells a little too close to the body odour of sweaty guys of certain ethnicity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being ethnophobic or anything, but diet does affect the way your perspiration smells. We were undergraduates at the same university and lived together for 3 years so these guys were more like brothers to me. Still are in fact. Finding myself in a nose-to-armpit headlock with one of these lovable jackasses was a possibility back in those carefree days of horsing around.

But I digressed. The opening thankfully settled in pretty rapidly on my citrus-killing skin. The spices simmered down, the true nature of Siberian Musk revealed. It's rather hard to find the right words to describe what was felt more than it was smelled. I don't find anything overtly animalic or post-coital at this stage or any other, just a smooth buttery blend of indistinctly rendered notes of soft florals, creamy woods and warm clean fur. It made me think of my ragdoll basking in the afternoon sun after a bath. The biggest problem I have with Siberian Musk is not the BO-like opening but that once you get your nose to its core, it is very hard to let go. Don't tell your lover(s) though.

I've never been to Siberia. But if a day in the wilderness smells this good, perhaps I should go.

Sillage is good, the room still smells of it half a hour after I left. But it wears close to skin for the most part seldom extending beyond an inch. Detectable on skin after 12 hours, and much longer on fabric. If you're big on projection this is probably not for you.

[ClaireV]

SIBERIAN MUSK

Opens with a spiced lime/ citrus accord I don't particularly care for. It smells a little too close to the body odour of sweaty guys of certain ethnicity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being ethnophobic or anything, but diet does affect the way your perspiration smells. We were undergraduates at the same university and lived together for 3 years so these guys were more like brothers to me. Still are in fact. Finding myself in a nose-to-armpit headlock with one of these lovable jackasses was a possibility back in those carefree days of horsing around.

But I digressed. The opening thankfully settled in pretty rapidly on my citrus-killing skin. The spices simmered down, the true nature of Siberian Musk revealed. It's rather hard to find the right words to describe what was felt more than it was smelled. I don't find anything overtly animalic or post-coital at this stage or any other, just a smooth buttery blend of indistinctly rendered notes of soft florals, creamy woods and warm clean fur. It made me think of my ragdoll basking in the afternoon sun after a bath. The biggest problem I have with Siberian Musk is not the BO-like opening but that once you get your nose to its core, it is very hard to let go. Don't tell your lover(s) though.

I've never been to Siberia. But if a day in the wilderness smells this good, perhaps I should go.

Very interesting review, thanks Diamondflame. I wonder if it's the pine or fir balsam in the topnotes that makes you think of sweat? I ask that because, to my nose, fir balsam or pine can often smell like that specific runner's sweat, sharp and sour - add in the petitgrain, and the sharpness could be accentuated. It was this specific note / note combination that made me shy away from Baccarat Rouge and Encens Flamboyant. But I also pick up a sweat note in the far dry down of Patchouli 24 too, so possibly vetiver or patchouli is involved too. I can't say I pick up on it in Siberian Musk beyond a certain spicy, aromatic brightness, but I will certainly be paying close attention now!

[Diamondflame]

Yes, Claire that's entirely possible. Perhaps the smoky pine in combination with the spices? The thing is I don't get the same impression when I spray Siberian Musk on shirt fabric so I suspect my skin had rapidly neutralized the citrus and threw the aromatic opening off balance. The association with spicy BO is probably unique to me as I get a similar vibe from Geoffrey Beene's Bowling Green while others don't.

[ClaireV]

Lots of pine, fir, and vetiver in Bowling Green, so hey, maybe there's something to it! Cumin can go either way, depending on how it's handled, but only Serge Noire smelled like actual BO to me.

I think you're onto something when you link ethnic diets to the way we (individually) perceive the smell of sweat. By the way, I don't think it's at all ethno-phobic to say that the food eaten by different cultures has an effect on their sweat - I think everyone would recognize that as being true. The diet of a French person, leaning towards a milk-fat and garlic-laden one, is going to have a different smell than that of someone who eats spicy, hot food, turmeric, etc. When my 3 year old daughter sweats, I sniff her damp neck and I can smell yeast, salty butter, and sweet bread (because she eats a lot of bread and butter). Actually, her sweat smells a bit like Jeux de Peau now that I think about it. But I am intrigued by the difference between the scent on your skin versus shirt, and your thought that your skin might be neutralizing the citrus. Does that mean that you believe in skin chemistry?

[ctboom]

Adam's perfumes have satisfied me in a way I haven't felt since Pekji Ruh. Oud Zen might well be the closest thing to a specific smell that I've been trying to recover for a long time, but that's a later story...

First, let me make note that for all three, the sheer quality of ingredients is nearly non pareil (I can think of only a handful of others from my limited exposure, e.g. Pekji, Sultan Pasha, Ensar, H Green, etc.). This is important for me because my daughter and I both have a bronchial reaction to many of the chemicals used as fixatives in today's products. This isn't a slam on synthetics, its just an admission of genetic sensitivity that my side of the family carries, a hair-trigger bronchial sensitivity (and even with naturals I have to be careful). The little one can descend into coughing fits that last as long as two months; vetiver fixatives can make my lungs feel suffuse with metallicized air for days.

So I began a partial turn toward ouds, and have been finding a real affinity in attars/mukhallats and natural extraits.

For this space I'll just focus on Siberian Musk. I get the spiciness at the head of Siberian Musk. Now, although I drink way too liberally of a home-made turmeric tea blend (turmeric, maca root powder, lacuna, cardamom, matcha, cacao powder, red pepper), I don't get a sweat association at all or at least not one that's off-putting. But SM does have an opening plume of spice that I think in Starblind's case she references as suggestive of MAAI. Though they're immediately distinct because of the very different animalaic profiles ultimately emerging through that spice.

I'm still absorbing this element. I'm immediately compelled toward it that its surreal (it might well be an affinity that goes beyond smell and into pure pheromonal realms). For sake of analysis, It's sweet and I know from "Russian Adam" that there's frangipiani that might be contributing to the sweetness, and there's other florals, orange blossom, and definitely patchouli (sweet musky patchouli, which might evoke a bit of Givenchy Gentleman or even Giorgio for Men though those rely on synthetics and once you try this I'm not sure you can go back).

But these elements aside, the musk is an unyielding central facet for the remainder of the perfume's life-span. It doesn't have "spires" in emanation, I mean it's certainly registers as an "animalaic", but it's one foment of a gentleness that I hadn't ever sensed in synthetic musks (e.g. Ombre Fauve) that now in retrospect do not so successfully mimic that "enveloping" "cuddling" effect. That's not to say it's not a challenging gentleness, the very visceral nature of deer musk is real enough.

And I can see the basis for ostensible legends of tenacity (years on clothes). It might refract this or that way, in its long dry-down, the way sunlight can undulate across an unending summer afternoon. It's a very creamy golden feel with an edge of saltiness that makes me want to wear this for an entire weekend without showering (so to better mingle with my body's smells). And for all the variations in response that this perfume might elicit across different individuals, this ethereal creamy galactic muskiness will likely be a constant.

I'll write about Oud Zen at a later date soon (have a busy week ahead here), but let me reiterate the main point, the quality of ingredients. That, and the person of "Russian Adam", who (and perhaps this is projection), who, in his overall aesthetic, I appreciate for his upstart spunk in doing all this in an industry that otherwise seems heavily structured and hierarchical.

Well worth sampling as supplies continue or as he creates new products.

[Buzzlepuff]

Will add my take on these Areej le Dore perfumes.

Siberian Musk is thick musk, mostly herbal musk attar but with a background note of Musk Deer. I once owned a bottle of pure musk deer oil and it was extraordinarily thick, floral and mesmerizing. This musk is a blending of musk deer and herbal musk. There are undefinable elements that create a thick, cozy, slightly sweet but neutral scent of musk. Siberian Musk opens with a tart lime scent that wakes up and balances the rose and milder elements that follow. There are elements of smoke, amber, incense, rose and other florals, a blended layer of green woods (vetiver, galbanum, cypress) followed by a rich amber woods scent and then there is the musk scent. The fragrance is first and last a musk scent and roils in that unfocused musk character that is a dark, warm and thick fragrance with bits of rose, green woods, amber folded throughout. It is very potently mixed extrait although I don't know the %. The two fragrances which ever so slightly remind me of Siberian Musk are: Roja Dove Musk Oud (bolder rose w/saffron) and Atelier d' Ors Larmes du Desert (stronger amber incense). Siberian Musk has a strong neutral musk element than either of these two similarly fragranced perfumes.
Why the difference in perception? - the differences between my S. Musk and the early enthusiastic descriptions might be batch variations. I have noticed that some artisan perfumers who are small, limited resource vendors, especially those who use limited materials such as fixed batches of oud, musks, rose or other rare specific florals that are limited, have great variability in the blending from first batches to last, subject to the supply of and seasonal batch variations of valuable essential ingredients. I have noticed this variation of results from early to later products from Ensar Oud, ASAQ, AgarAura, Amouage attars, Matriarch, Bogue, Slumberhouse and others who are hand blending as orders are received. Batch variations might account for the differences in scent because I do NOT smell what I am reading about in earlier descriptions of these scents. I do like and enjoy the fragrances I received, no regrets at all, and I own full bottles of each of these from Areej le Dore.

Ottoman Empire is a resinous dark green myrrh based leather aroma with punctuating saffron floral sharp bits blended evenly through the resin body. Sadly, I do not really smell rose which is so proudly described in the description of the perfume, however rose can easily be transformed by saffron and in my bottle this appears to be the case. The saffron floral expressive parts recalls a sharp, high toned saffron attar, and this sharpness lays upon and through the dark myrrh resin body like a fine mystical glow. The resultant blend is both high pitched and sharp but also dark green and incense oriented. The somewhat dry base gives an illusion of a leather base. As with Siberian Musk the mix is a potent blend (25%-30%?) and recommend to apply with caution. The thickness of the application of Ottoman Empire influences greatly the perception of aroma of the fragrance.

Oud Zen is a deeply spiced, smokey, oud and sandlalwood perfume. The opening spicy woods are a baptism by immersion into a rich blend of: (1) 20 year old aged saffron attar blended with Indian Oud, (2) Shri Lankan Oud distilled by Adam and Papua Agarwood, (3) Indian Sandalwood and Vetiver, also Indonesian Sandalwood, (4) Sweet Myrrh and Tolu Balsam, (5) synthetic Castoreum and Civet. The result of all these rich notes is a deep woods aroma with penetrating spice opening. Oud Zen is my favorite of these three perfumes but it does have some rough edges that seem to dissolve as it wears onward. I think this fragrance will improve with time and aging. The only comparative perfume to Oud Zen I have smelled is Incense Oud By Killian - although it lacks the depth or boldness of Oud Zen.

All of these perfumes are very potent and densely constructed and so none are appropriate for a blind buy.

[Diamondflame]

But I am intrigued by the difference between the scent on your skin versus shirt, and your thought that your skin might be neutralizing the citrus. Does that mean that you believe in skin chemistry?

I believe what my nose tells me. I get a lot more of the lime on fabric than I do on my skin. Certain topnotes just don't take to my skin. And depending on which area of your body you apply a perfume there could be subtle yet noticeable differences in scent development. Our skin is a living breathing organism with its own base scent. Living skin can never be as inert as paper smelling strips. So it's really not a question of belief but more a logical inference well-supported by direct observations. I know there are people who dismiss 'skin chemistry' but I've yet to hear a convincing counter argument from them.

Btw Claire, isn't it odd Serge Noire happens to be a favourite of mine?

[SayfAli]

Heres a review from NikhilS from Frangantica

"The best perfume world has seen in ages. Period. It has all the elements of a classic chypre from the golden days of perfumery. Creativity: infinite and unregulated. Starts off with a blast of powdered citrus and floral powder. Then the dark animal musk unleashes a sensual extravaganza and transports me into medieval era. What remains of it within a few hours is the authentic erotic note of deer musk. It's magical and extraordinarily beautiful. Pure velvet. No musk fragrance has ever given me this pure thrill the closest was Diaghilev by Roja but this one has failed all the artists I ever considered great. The whole perfume blooms and opens in layers with a slow pace. Small burts of olfactory pleasure keeping the wearer puzzled. It lasts on skin and clothes for an eternity. With half a spray you can achieve all this. I never knew this side of Russiam Adam. I was always a fan of his pure Oud oils but this has stunned me. I ordered this and Oud Zen within hours of testing my samples. If this were cheaper I d buy alreast 3 bottles. Because I know no one in thw regulated world of perfumes will ever be able to create an olfactory masterpiece of this sort. Grab it if you crave the most unadulterated classic chypre experience"

[Diamondflame]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, ctboom and Buzzlepuff. The musk certainly has that amorphous hard-to-define characteristic, doesn't it? It seems to register beyond the usual olfactory scales, if that makes any sense. I don't find Siberian Musk nuclear at all. 3 sprays to the chest this sfternoon and it was still a purring pussycat. It may be potent but certainly not a projection beast. Any thoughts on this, Starblind?

SayfAli, thank you for that addition from Fragrantica. I'm still trying to trace the chypre element but I agree both Siberian Musk and Ottoman Empire pay homage to vintage classics from the golden era.

About blindbuy-friendliness I suppose the price tag is a stronger deterrent than the actual scents IMO. I don't find any discordant accords or harshness about them that could potentially detract one from enjoying the smells. If one has ever worn attars before, I believe these 3 compositions are nowhere as challenging.

[thebeck]

The only one I have sampled so far is Siberian Musk. It's everything Claire V says and more. The dry down reminds me of things I wore in late 60's and 70's. Your shirt the next day will be so heavenly you will not want to wash it.

Now that I'm 66 and retired on a fixed income, $300.00 isn't in the budget, but I did scrape together $55.00 for 5ml in a rollerball applicator (don't want to waste any spraying) at surrendertochance. I was trying to convince someone to split a bottle because I wanted 10ml, but was unsuccessful.

I simply couldn't live without a little bit of this Siberian Musk. Words don't describe how good I feel when I wear Siberian Musk.

[Kagey]

Thanks for starting this thread. I saw Starblind's original thread and got the sample set. It really is one of the most beautiful and impressive little collections of perfume that I've encountered. I've been feeling relatively uninspired about perfume lately - and thankfully so, since I have a big enough wardrobe that I love - but Ottoman Empire and Siberian Musk totally knocked me out. They're both gorgeous, big, old-timey rich skanky florals. I think anyone who loved Papillon's Salome should smell these. I think they put Diaghilev to shame.

[aksminster]

I have recently received my bottle of Siberian Musk and I have to say, it's great. Wonderful throwback to vintage perfumery. Only worn once so not intimately familiar yet but will update thoughts on all 3 once I have given them thorough wearings.

[ClaireV]

I believe what my nose tells me. I get a lot more of the lime on fabric than I do on my skin. Certain topnotes just don't take to my skin. And depending on which area of your body you apply a perfume there could be subtle yet noticeable differences in scent development. Our skin is a living breathing organism with its own base scent. Living skin can never be as inert as paper smelling strips. So it's really not a question of belief but more a logical inference well-supported by direct observations. I know there are people who dismiss 'skin chemistry' but I've yet to hear a convincing counter argument from them.

Btw Claire, isn't it odd Serge Noire happens to be a favourite of mine?

I feel I should explain the rather pointed question I asked you about skin chemistry - I have recently taken to exploring the world of American indie oil perfumes, specifically houses such as BPAL, NAVA, Alkemia, Solstice Scents, and so on, and within this particular subset of the fragrance community, there is the strong belief that lunar cycles, skin types, menstrual days, etc. all affect the perfume so deeply as to render it completely different from day to day, person to person. If someone is reviewing one of these oils, the common sort of language used runs along the lines of "my skin amps vetiver so I couldn't take it, but if you are lucky enough to have vetiver-loving skin chemistry, it should work for you" and so on. Basically, if you dislike an oil or think it is badly made, it is not acceptable to say so, and you have to couch it all in terms of, "I am so unlucky that my skin hates this one" and "I recognize that this is very well made, but grrr, ugh, why is my skin chemistry such a bitch to me at this time of the month". I have noticed a bit of this kind of thing in the mainstream / niche perfume sector as well, but in the indie perfume oil world, it is the accepted practice of talking about a perfume.

To be honest, I have an opinion about this that may or may not have any basis in scientific fact, but it's mine and I feel it strongly: I think that it is the way our noses perceive a perfume that differs from person to person, rather than our skin. It is perhaps that we have trained ourselves to be so mindful of others' opinions that we have fallen into this thing of explaining away a strong dislike or like with skin chemistry, because skin chemistry is far less personal than simply saying: hey, I don't like it, I think this needs improvement, or this perfume is badly made. I always say, "to my nose, this smells like...." because I think it makes it clear that I'm talking about a personal perception of smell, how an aroma strikes MY nose, and laying down a silent disclaimer that YOUR nose might smell something differently.

I remember Luca Turin in his Folio of essays talking about skin chemistry, and he said something along the lines of, I don't believe in skin chemistry, I believe in skin physics, which he then went on to explain was the process of how moisture being taken OUT of one's skin (dehydration) could change how volatile notes smelled, and how if you add moisture (lotion) TO skin, you can extend certain notes. Then again, I have heard from perfumer friends that the big perfumers of the world - Ropion, Kurkdijan, etc - will go around their labs asking for different people to volunteer their skin to test how the scent smells on different skins. I guess there must be something to the skin chemistry thing, if the practitioners ask for the skin testing. I just wanted to say that I don't believe skin chemistry accounts for such dramatic variances as proposed in the American indie oil sector - there, I believe, the real issue is a sub-culture that has evolved to never say anything that might offend a perfumer, because in the indie oil world, vendors and consumers are thrown into the same (very small) web communities, and objective, critical reviewing of the product is just very hard to achieve or see.

You like Serge Noire? Well, I trust your taste and your nose, so, you know, it must be my skin chemistry that turns that stuff to taxi driver 2-day old underarm sweat!

[Mustafa911]

I blind bought Siberian musk just after reading Claire " jaw dropping" reaction !!

The bottle is scheduled for delivery on July 3rd . Now the wait begins !!


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