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  1. #151
    Dependent Starblind's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    With the trend in increasing government regulation of our lives, there will be NO perfumes 20 years from now. I look back over the last 20 years and all of the things that have been overly regulated, and I just can't imagine. There already is banning of fragrances in Public schools, hospitals, rehab centers, doctor's offices here in the USA. The school I teach at has recently begun sending people home who smell of a fragrance/lotion/hair product, etc. The hospital where I do clinicals also bans any fragranced person from going to the medical floors.
    I find this trend so very sad! The only place where I can think that this idea would be appropriate might be in the tattoo parlor.

  2. #152

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Knize 10 may be exactly the same as you remember it, but when you smell two samples side by side, one three years older than the other, you can tell the difference. Well, you may not, but I can.

    Have to disagree with you about Yatagan too. I own a sample bought in the 80s, and sample bought a few years ago. There is no comparison. The older sample is far more complex and stronger than the newer sample. Maybe young folk can't handle complexity. I cannot agree that the newer version of Yatagan is better. It is like comparing a Rembrandt original with a poor photocopy of a magazine illustration.
    We'll agree to differ about K10

    With Yatagan, for me the major change occurred about 12-18 months ago, prettying it up and making it more user friendly, obviously for financial reasons and I think it smells good and much less harsh. Ideally, it should have been called Yatagan 2 or something, thus making your comparison redundant.

  3. #153

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    We'll agree to differ about K10

    With Yatagan, for me the major change occurred about 12-18 months ago, prettying it up and making it more user friendly, obviously for financial reasons and I think it smells good and much less harsh. Ideally, it should have been called Yatagan 2 or something, thus making your comparison redundant.
    The newer sample of Yatagan I have is older than that. A pleasant enough fragrance but with none of the downright weirdness of the vintage sample I own. I remember the first time I smelled Yatagan ( in Selfridges in 1978, the year it was launched), I thought it disgusting and literally flinched. I had sprayed some on the back of my hand and kept on smelling it. 20 minutes later I bought a bottle, and have loved it ever since. The modern version I own is like a shadow of the original. A faded shell. Such a shame.

    From what you say it has been played around with again. Such a shame.

  4. #154

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    The newer sample of Yatagan I have is older than that. A pleasant enough fragrance but with none of the downright weirdness of the vintage sample I own. I remember the first time I smelled Yatagan ( in Selfridges in 1978, the year it was launched), I thought it disgusting and literally flinched. I had sprayed some on the back of my hand and kept on smelling it. 20 minutes later I bought a bottle, and have loved it ever since. The modern version I own is like a shadow of the original. A faded shell. Such a shame.

    From what you say it has been played around with again. Such a shame.
    Ha -- yes. I have never fully recovered from the initial blast of the original - a sort of bitter vegetal rod of breath. Patience isn't my strongest attribute.

    I know what you mean though -- never being able to experience the beauty of Pour Monsieur by Chanel anymore breaks my heart.

  5. #155

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    Ha -- yes. I have never fully recovered from the initial blast of the original - a sort of bitter vegetal rod of breath. Patience isn't my strongest attribute.

    I know what you mean though -- never being able to experience the beauty of Pour Monsieur by Chanel anymore breaks my heart.
    That was the fragrance my late father wore. Shame never to be able to smell it again.

  6. #156

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Broad strokes / generalisation 2017 compared to 2007.

    Downside:
    (a) IFRA has killed the chypre, fougere and inflicted grievous bodily harm on a number of other genres.
    (b) Woman are expected to wear fruity / florals or loads of vanilla and cotton candly.
    (c) Men are expected to wear woody ambers with lotsa Iso E or loads of vanilla and cotton candy.
    (d) Prices are getting STOOPID.

    Upside:
    (a) There are some really creative perfumers who are coming up with excellent (and in many cases truly original) pieces of work despite all the above (except maybe (d) sadly).
    (b) There are reviewers and more fragmented (i.e. smaller, discerning) online communities where you can get all the info you need sans bullshit.
    (c) Luca Turin & Tania Sanchez have been motivated to spring back into action!
    (d) I have so much stuff from a decade+ ago now that I really only NEED to buy 3 or 4 new bottles a year.

    For the intensely curious: Re: Upside (d), some of these include Miyako, Chypre Palatin, Seville a l'Aube, Sova, MAAI, Kimonanthe, Montecristo, Balsamo della Mecca, Vero's stuff (esp. Kiki & Onda) and this year I have my eye on MEM & Naja.

    Peace
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  7. #157
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    Look at this optical illusion I posted on my blog a few days ago: People swear the two squares A and B are different shades until you actually show that they are the same.
    Attachment 70381

    People swear two frags smell different until you reveal that you got them from the same bottle.
    This coupled with the age of a "vintage" you have when the volatile top notes have evaporated, and the concentration of liquid is higher, and the slow chemical reactions have occorred over years of time, and they will swear there was a major change in the reformulation.
    Well now... there are sensory illusions that prove false and there are sensory illusions that prove true.

    From my perspective, those 2 squares (A & B) not only appear different shades of gray they are, in fact, different shades of grey. The 'trick-of-the-light' by both the shadow cast by the green cylinder and the spatial positioning of darker gray squares around the lighter grey squares each, to some degree, creates the illusion of different shades in those 2 squares. Granted, my perspective assumes an influential light source somewhere (out of the picture) to the right of the green cylinder. What I quickly process: ah, the ole' 2-color checker/chess board, uniform in design (edit - yeah another assumption), I've seen it many times; take away either the (assumed) light source or the green cylinder and the illusion created in this 2 dimensional picture is taken away as well.

    So, which perspective is right and which is wrong... or are they just different? How many times have we all heard it: perception = reality. But, can that be... So many people walking around in their own private cognitive realities? Shudders(!) That is why experience matters. It's practice. And, practice makes perfect... er, or at least a more informed reality, no?

    Anyways, welcome back prodigal BNr. All is not lost. What was true 10 years ago is true now. Find what you like and use what you like.

    Now I'm off to side-by-side some good old K10 / older K10 on one arm and some good old Yatagan / older Yatagan on the other. Why? Because I can <proud and happy emoji appear now!>
    Last edited by DuNezDeBuzier; Yesterday at 03:09 PM.
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  8. #158
    Dependent Possum-Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
    Well now... there are sensory illusions that prove false and there are sensory illusions that prove true.

    From my perspective, those 2 squares (A & B) not only appear different shades of gray they are, in fact, different shades of grey. The 'trick-of-the-light' by both the shadow cast by the green cylinder and the spatial positioning of darker gray squares around the lighter grey squares each, to some degree, creates the illusion of different shades in those 2 squares. Granted, my perspective assumes an influential light source somewhere (out of the picture) to the right of the green cylinder. What I quickly process: ah, the ole' 2-color checker/chess board, uniform in design (edit - yeah another assumption), I've seen it many times; take away either the (assumed) light source or the green cylinder and the illusion created in this 2 dimensional picture is taken away as well.

    So, which perspective is right and which is wrong... or are they just different? How many times have we all heard it: perception = reality. But, can that be... So many people walking around in their own private cognitive realities? Shudders(!) That is why experience matters. It's practice. And, practice makes perfect... er, or at least a more informed reality, no?

    Anyways, welcome back prodigal BNr. All is not lost. What was true 10 years ago is true now. Find what you like and use what you like.

    Now I'm off to side-by-side some good old K10 / older K10 on one arm and some good old Yatagan / older Yatagan on the other. Why? Because I can <proud and happy emoji appear now!>
    Illusion - noun "Something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality."
    Illusions by definition can't be proven true.
    I have no idea what you mean by the belief that the 2 squares ARE different, the bottom picture shows that they are identical shades. Perspectives in a logical, scientific world are wrong all of the time, despite the new agey idea that nobody is wrong, all beliefs are valid. 3-1=2 I don't care how much you want to believe it's 34. MIS-perceptions ARE wrong. One's experience/perception doesn't matter in the ultimate truth. The people who were given identical Aventus samples and believed them to be different batches proves my point that our brains trick us. "Who care?" someone may say... I care. Sure, perfume isn't life-and-death, but people making political decisions b/c their perspective is that there is no such thing as global warming DOES matter. We should be aware that our brains trick us, and try to gaurd against it.
    Last edited by Possum-Pie; Yesterday at 04:01 PM.
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  9. #159
    Dependent saminlondon's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    Illusion - noun "Something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality."
    Illusions by definition can't be proven true.
    I have no idea what you mean by the belief that the 2 squares ARE different, the bottom picture shows that they are identical shades. Perspectives in a logical, scientific world are wrong all of the time, despite the new agey idea that nobody is wrong, all beliefs are valid. 3-1=2 I don't care how much you want to believe it's 34. MIS-perceptions ARE wrong. One's experience/perception doesn't matter in the ultimate truth. The people who were given identical Aventus samples and believed them to be different batches proves my point that our brains trick us. "Who care?" someone may say... I care. Sure, perfume isn't life-and-death, but people making political decisions b/c their perspective is that there is no such thing as global warming DOES matter. We should be aware that our brains trick us, and try to gaurd against it.
    The squares in the optical illusion are made to appear the same colour - i.e. exactly the same shade of grey - because of the shade cast by the green cylinder plonked in the middle. But in actual fact they cannot be the same colour, since this is a chess board made up of alternating black and white squares. There's more at play here than perception (logic, for instance).

    (Sorry, a bit off-topicky, I know.)

  10. #160
    Dependent Possum-Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    double post
    Last edited by Possum-Pie; Yesterday at 07:58 PM.
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  11. #161
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    The squares in the optical illusion are made to appear the same colour - i.e. exactly the same shade of grey - because of the shade cast by the green cylinder plonked in the middle. But in actual fact they cannot be the same colour, since this is a chess board made up of alternating black and white squares. There's more at play here than perception (logic, for instance).

    (Sorry, a bit off-topicky, I know.)
    Even when shown that they are the exact same color/shade/brightness, people STILL refuse to believe it...LOL that is a great illusion. Believing it or not. Your belief doesn't make it true. The bottom picture shows they are identical... They ARE the same. It's OK, I have tried every fact I could to get my father to believe the earth is warming up and HE still refuses to believe facts. It's ok. You're right, let's get back on topic.
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  12. #162

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    Look at this optical illusion I posted on my blog a few days ago: People swear the two squares A and B are different shades until you actually show that they are the same.
    Attachment 70381

    People swear two frags smell different until you reveal that you got them from the same bottle.
    This coupled with the age of a "vintage" you have when the volatile top notes have evaporated, and the concentration of liquid is higher, and the slow chemical reactions have occorred over years of time, and they will swear there was a major change in the reformulation.
    Well I have a third perspective; On my laptop, the bottom picture doesn't match either (A & B still look different.)

  13. #163
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Suspended View Post
    Well I have a third perspective; On my laptop, the bottom picture doesn't match either (A & B still look different.)
    cover everything on both sides except square a and b with your hands. The squares that are different shades have lines where they butt up against the two grey lines. The A and B and any other square that is the exact same shade have NO lines where they butt up against the two grey lines, they smoothly join them b/c they are the same shade as the two lines. Use your hand to cover more distracting squares and it will become obvious. I LOVE it that even when people are shown that their eyes are tricking them, they don't believe it. Shows how our brains trick us.
    Last edited by Possum-Pie; Yesterday at 08:10 PM.
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  14. #164
    Dependent DuNezDeBuzier's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    Illusion - noun "Something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality."
    Illusions by definition can't be proven true.
    I have no idea what you mean by the belief that the 2 squares ARE different, the bottom picture shows that they are identical shades. Perspectives in a logical, scientific world are wrong all of the time, despite the new agey idea that nobody is wrong, all beliefs are valid. 3-1=2 I don't care how much you want to believe it's 34. MIS-perceptions ARE wrong. One's experience/perception doesn't matter in the ultimate truth. The people who were given identical Aventus samples and believed them to be different batches proves my point that our brains trick us. "Who care?" someone may say... I care. Sure, perfume isn't life-and-death, but people making political decisions b/c their perspective is that there is no such thing as global warming DOES matter. We should be aware that our brains trick us, and try to gaurd against it.
    You're proving my point. It's only an illusion if you are deceived. But, then again, what's the deception? The common view would be that, upon quick glance of this 2 dimensional picture, squares A & B appear to be different shades of grey but upon closer analysis are pretty much the same shade. It's rather obvious that this exercise teases out that particular illusory deception.

    Quite frankly, my perspective is a bit deeper (then again, could just be the eclipse talkin'). It involves taking some liberties with assumptions, which I've mentioned. It involves thinking 3D and takes into account the explicit externality - cylinder - and the assumed externality - light source. It involves mind-brain memory use as to the standard 2-color characteristics of a common checkerboard design. And, it involves an understanding (steeped in science) that we are able to see objects because of the light-reflecting / "color-producing" properties of those objects. These inherent "color-producing" properties don't change just because an externality is introduced or taken away. Think, a red apple certainly does not turn into a black apple simply because it's put in a dark closet with the door closed. I'd say my perspective suggests that the true deception would be in concluding that the inherent light-reflecting, "color-producing", properties of squares A & B are the same after the further analysis when they are, in fact, not. For purposes of correct, accurate and timely real-world decision making I'd even go so far as to say that my perspective will get you more accurate/correct conclusions... those being: (1) there are only dark grey/black squares and light gray/white squares; (2) square A is in fact a dark gray/black square and square B is in fact a light grey/white square; (3) in and because of the cylinder's shadow, square B appears shades darker than it, in fact, actually is; and (4) any apparent 'sameness' of tint created by the cylinder's shadow is just coincidence (correlation doesn't prove causation, yeah applies here too!).

    You may understand my way of approaching this simple and harmless exercise of square shading comparisons on a checkerboard. Or not. You may see its merit or not. Doesn't exactly have life & death consequences either way you look at it, huh? So be it. But employing a close-minded approach and imposing your perspective over differing perspectives... doesn't that usually spell trouble? I doubt many loathe, as much as I do, the post-modernistic thought evidently behind some of the behaviors we see in certain areas of society these days... but this is not that. This is about open-mindedness and broad horizons. lol

    And, of course, this is not to be taken too seriously for reasons that need not be stated. As for Aventus... who cares about Aventus? lol Sorry about that last dig... the eclipse def did make me do that.
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  15. #165
    Dependent Possum-Pie's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Fair enough. And my saving grace that protects me from pulling my hair out when people believe things without proof, is that they only hurt themselves. The people who pay huge premiums for a batch they believe is better, or for a new-age remedy that is nothing but snake oil, their money, their loss. I hate to see people duped, but as long as I'm a skeptic and do my best to not be duped, I'm ok with that. Perfume is SO subjective, the reviews show that, People love one, others hate the same thing. Purely subjective. If people want to belive that all the great frags have been reformulated and ruined, fine. Others will argue that Their memory is colored by the nostalgic past, and they are the same frag. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Sometimes I just like to spur a good debate. BTW, I got to see a 77% eclipse, not total dark, but spooky anyway!
    Last edited by Possum-Pie; Yesterday at 09:49 PM.
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  16. #166

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Fields were greener in the past and even greener in our memory.

  17. #167
    Dependent NickZee's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    Fields were greener in the past and even greener in our memory.
    Aye, the ye olde times.

    The other issue is that the high-quality niche stuff released in the last 10 years make many designers and reformulations look especially bad.
    Last edited by NickZee; Today at 01:32 AM.

  18. #168
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    Fields were greener in the past and even greener in our memory.
    We people who suffer from nostalgia deal with this issue every day. Looking back on the "good ol' days" always seem better than they were. I tend to forget or gloss over the bad, and remember the good fondly. Same with fragrances I can't get anymore...
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