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  1. #1

    Angry After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry today.

    Hey guys,

    After an extremely long hiatus of almost 10 years, I got the bug again!

    I don't know who the carrier was that gave it to me.

    Back in 2008ish I parted out my beloved collection. Going from maybe 60-70 bottles down to 30ish.

    Some bottles I'm glad are gone. Some bottles I miss and regret ever getting rid of them.

    I guess my quest now started with my desire to regain my favorites I got rid of and shouldn't have.

    This brings me to the sad point of my post.

    My first purchase? Davidoff Zion, Issey Bleue and One man show gold.

    Among a host of other samples.

    I have been saddened and frustrated that my once cherished fragrances have been watered down, reformuoated and ruined almost across the board.

    I sprayed Zino on which my vintage early 2000s bottle used to last 4-5 hours 1-2 sprays.... now I find that I might get 90 mins out of it IF THAT before it becomes a skin scent and that is with 5-6 sprays!

    A got an official Millesime Imperial spray sample which was one of my top 5. I got 2 hours OR LESS off 5 sprays before IT became a skin scent. The old one used to linger it's sparkling notes for hours maybe 5 or so on a spray or two.

    Then today. My most upsetting. Terre D Hermes...... this fragrance used to be a powerhouse! One spray was enough for 8 hours, two sprays if you were crazy would give you 12++ of powerful silage.

    The sample of it I got was ABSOLUTELY pathetic. It smelled like they cut the old TDH with 3 parts alcohol and 1 part old TDH. Top notes vanished instantly and it was a skin scent in 20 mins. Not joking! And I used 5/6 sprays and got this result.

    This makes me so sad and frustrated to take such beautiful pieces of artistry and piss on them.

    Why why why?

    I'm speechless...... *drops mic*
    Last edited by Pugsley_f5; 13th August 2017 at 08:21 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    A positive return!!
    Currently wearing: Furyo by Jacques Bogart

  3. #3

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    And what makes it worse is that plenty of BNers, apparently, will tell you that's all in your head! LOL.

  4. #4
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Trauerkraut View Post
    A positive return!!
    Indeed!
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve my or other Basenoters' acknowledgement or respect.

  5. #5

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Good to see you back from another old timer on here. Unfortunately, you will see that Basenotes has changed a lot too, and not for the better.
    Fine fragrance is alive; it breathes, unfolds and unravels with each passing hour....

    Roja Dove
    Currently wearing: Apple Brandy by By Kilian

  6. #6

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    And what makes it worse is that plenty of BNers, apparently, will tell you that's all in your head! LOL.
    Bigsly! Long time man I remember you!

    No not in our heads at all. When you've sipped on craft beer your whole life, a 40 of malt liquor isn't a masterpiece, I'm sorry!

    All the newer guys should take it from us old cats....we've been duped!

  7. #7

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry View Post
    Good to see you back from another old timer on here. Unfortunately, you will see that Basenotes has changed a lot too, and not for the better.
    Prince! Long time man!

  8. #8
    Dependent NickZee's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Plenty of high quality releases in the last 10 years. But you will have to pay a lot more than what vintage Zino used to sell for back in the day.

  9. #9

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    I hear ya man and share your frustration too! Welcome back

  10. #10
    Dependent calzim's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Welcome back. It's true the industry has taken a turn for the worse. Thankfully many vintages are still quite available. A decade from now?... it's troubling to imagine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pugsley_f5 View Post

    This makes me so sad and frustrated to take such beautiful pieces of artistry and piss on them.
    I guess you can skip O'Driu Peety.
    "Was the wood perceived as masculine, or was the hamster perceived as masculine?"
    -Renato

    Swap

  11. #11

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Welcome back and yes the state of a lot of well known designer fragrances that have been reformulated is a sorry state of affairs. Hunting for vintage fragrances is a must if you want that quality you remember.

    All is not lost though as the artistry is now in niche fragrances with the smaller houses carrying the flag. Though they can be rough and avant garde that's where the future lies.
    "There's No School Like The Old School."

  12. #12

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    I'm not trying to downplay the fact of miserable mass-reformulations at all but very recently there's been a number of reports about new reformulations that are allegedly much closer to the originals then previous ones. I think there's still hope that the industry will get a handle on the situation via the development of proper substitutes for IFRA-restricted ingredients. You can be sure, that the industry itself has a huge interest in finding better solutions for that matter.
    Last edited by Nasenmann; 13th August 2017 at 10:45 AM.
    Currently wearing: Ébène by Pierre Balmain

  13. #13

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry View Post
    Good to see you back from another old timer on here. Unfortunately, you will see that Basenotes has changed a lot too, and not for the better.
    I second that esp after what I have been seeing in the past 6 months lol

  14. #14

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasenmann View Post
    I'm not trying to downplay the fact of miserable mass-reformulations at all but very recently there's been a number of reports about new reformulations that are allegedly much closer to the originals then previous ones. I think there's still hope that the industry will get a handle on the situation via the development of proper substitutes for IFRA-restricted ingredients. You can be sure, that the industry itself has a huge interest in finding better solutions for that matter.
    I agree. The future is bright. Things will get better and then we can all enjoy a potent renaissance.

    The industry was dealt a massive blow and with little time for solutions. Science will find the answers and then we will have a new set of ingredients for them to ban in another 20 years

  15. #15

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Suspended View Post
    Science will find the answers and then we will have a new set of ingredients for them to ban in another 20 years
    Samsara - the circle of life.
    Currently wearing: Ébène by Pierre Balmain

  16. #16
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    It's a reality fragrance lovers have to live with nowadays. A regrettable evolution when bean counters run the show but it's not all doom and gloom. Generally speaking Basenoters have the inside track on the bargains/ gems to be found so I don't think we're as badly affected as we could have been.
    Currently wearing: Royal Mayfair by Creed

  17. #17
    Dependent Francolino's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry View Post
    Good to see you back from another old timer on here. Unfortunately, you will see that Basenotes has changed a lot too, and not for the better.
    Yup!

  18. #18

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Welcome back! Personally hoping that there may still be ways to at least somehow avoid/circumvent this situation (alternative houses/manufacturers-not just in the affordable segment, but launching new and less over-regulated fragrance releases in any price category, reliable vintage sources etc.).

  19. #19
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Curiously, I never bought TDH when it first came out because it hardly lasted on me.
    The first time I tried MI about 15 years ago, it was as weak as what you describe now, and the MI I tried some three years alter was as strong as you describe from back then.
    The bottle of Zino I bought a few years back (looks new to me) lasts very well on me, unlike your experience.
    Regards,
    Renato

  20. #20

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Good to see you again! On a positive note, I think I find myself drawn less and less toward what I used to own and more or less embracing all the new stuff to try that's out there. That's not to say I wouldn't shudder if I had bought something and found it not to be the same; I know the issue has been discussed quite a lot of the 15+ years I've been around going back to Yahoo, but I think there's a bit of both at play with memory being tricky and actual reformulations taken place (not to mention I remember questioning why nobody questions our sense of smell changing over the years as we get older just as our eyes, taste, and hearing changes with age.)
    The Bark Bites Back on film here --> https://thebarkbitesback.wordpress.com
    Currently wearing: Journey Man by Amouage

  21. #21

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry View Post
    Good to see you back from another old timer on here. Unfortunately, you will see that Basenotes has changed a lot too, and not for the better.
    Can you explain what you mean by this please.

  22. #22
    xxsjxx1
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    heres an idea.... so its probably the EU regulations messing everything up right??

    i am pretty sure the FDA doesn't monitor cosmetics, why not move manufacturing to the USA? then companies can release anything they want. if it will potentially irritate skin in 2-3% of the population, add a disclaimer, and use at your own risk... or spray on clothes. Everyones happy.

  23. #23

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by xxsjxx1 View Post
    heres an idea.... so its probably the EU regulations messing everything up right??

    i am pretty sure the FDA doesn't monitor cosmetics, why not move manufacturing to the USA? then companies can release anything they want. if it will potentially irritate skin in 2-3% of the population, add a disclaimer, and use at your own risk... or spray on clothes. Everyones happy.
    The USA regulations are even more restrictive and baroque than the EU ones. Not only are there nation wide regulations, there are individual state legislation too. Most fragrance houses have a presence in the USA, with creative and compounding facilities. Of course the FDA monitors cosmetics, and fragrances.

    Anyway, it isn't a question of where something is manufactured, but where it is sold.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 13th August 2017 at 03:10 PM.

  24. #24
    Basenotes Junkie mhiregoudar's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Zino Davidoff lasts 8 hours on me
    Creed MI lasts 8-10 hours
    Latest version of TDH lasts 12 hours on me.
    Currently wearing: Jubilation XXV by Amouage

  25. #25

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    It's IFRA and EU-regulations among other national ones. The US market is subject to IFRA-regulations too (for all I know). Apart from that, the main players in this industry operate international and of course aim to sell their products internationally. So they develop their products to be in compliance with all the regulations of the target markets.
    Last edited by Nasenmann; 13th August 2017 at 03:18 PM.
    Currently wearing: Ébène by Pierre Balmain

  26. #26
    xxsjxx1
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    The USA regulations are even more restrictive and baroque than the EU ones. Not only are there nation wide regulations, there are individual state legislation too. Most fragrance houses have a presence in the USA, with creative and compounding facilities. Of course the FDA monitors cosmetics, and fragrances.
    https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidan.../ucm074162.htm

    they only care about color additives and that its labeled correctly per its ingredients from what i can tell. ''do not spray directly on skin'' VIOLA heres your vintage fragrance. i don't see why we would abide by other countries rules... its not like they follow our rules.

  27. #27

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by mhiregoudar View Post
    Zino Davidoff lasts 8 hours on me
    Creed MI lasts 8-10 hours
    Latest version of TDH lasts 12 hours on me.
    can I have your skin sir?

  28. #28
    Basenotes Institution dougczar's Avatar
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    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Yes, many things have been "watered down" - often due to regulations. But if you are only getting 20 minutes from the latest TdH, then your nose has changed far more than the fragrances.
    Current Winter Favorites:

    1. House of Matriarch - Blackbird
    2. Brückner - Aoud 1
    3. Creed - Royal Oud
    4. Stéphane Humbert Lucas 777 - Generation Man
    5. Armani Privé - Oud Royal
    6. by Kilian - Straight to Heaven
    7. Stéphane Humbert Lucas 777 - Mortal Skin
    8. Ormonde Jayne - Black Gold
    9. Creed - Royal English Leather
    10. by Kilian - Cruel Intentions

  29. #29

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Yes, many things have been "watered down" - often due to regulations.
    Often blamed on regulations carte blanche. It's an easy target to obscure other motives: lowering production costs, COGS, etc. in the interest of benefiting some exec's annual bonus.

  30. #30

    Default Re: After almost 10 years...I'm back!! (and dismayed)--The sad state of the fragrances industry toda

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Yes, many things have been "watered down" - often due to regulations. But if you are only getting 20 minutes from the latest TdH, then your nose has changed far more than the fragrances.
    Man I'm telling you TDH sample smelled like a top note of ISO Alcohol.

    Even my wife said it smelled "light".

    Old TDH and light never went in the same sentence!

    Who is the IFRA and why do they matter? It seems like they were more or less a lobbying organization than a regulatory agency.

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