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  1. #1
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    Default best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Hi guys,
    Does any one have any suggestions for a good quality, realistic synthetic Sandalwood?
    I tried the one from P.A. ...its loud, too dry, too chalky.

    I`d like to find myself a sweeter, muskier, more low profile sandalwood.
    Any suggestions?

    Thanks so much,
    Matthew

  2. #2
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    Hi guys,
    Does any one have any suggestions for a good quality, realistic synthetic Sandalwood?
    I tried the one from P.A. ...its loud, too dry, too chalky.

    I`d like to find myself a sweeter, muskier, more low profile sandalwood.
    Any suggestions?

    Thanks so much,
    Matthew
    Mysore wood base is quite nice and diffusive

  3. #3
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    musky... Diffusive...
    did you try ebanol?

  4. #4
    Basenotes Junkie Serg Ixygon's Avatar
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Do you need a base? or standalone chemicals? Buy AC and make what you need.

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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    thanks Adam!

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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serg Ixygon View Post
    Do you need a base? or standalone chemicals? Buy AC and make what you need.

    I do prefer a base, because I`m a beginner

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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinkiwi View Post
    Mysore wood base is quite nice and diffusive

    will try!
    M

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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    I think I`ll look it up, thanks so much!

  10. #10
    Super Member aestheticindustrialist's Avatar
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    I do prefer a base, because I`m a beginner
    I wonder out loud if this is a poor philosophy to hold, especially as a beginner. Arguably, bases are key to making good perfumes, and the practice of using pre-made bases is not a fault, per se, of a perfumer's compositional skills. But, what does using a base early on serve? Namely, what does using a base allow you to focus on instead of trying to learn how to compose base notes? Is it perfecting top notes? Is it just making something 'complete' and 'wearable' early on? And would that just be an ego boost route so one can feel as if they have accomplished something, and then move forth? What, then, is the difference between a fragrance oil (often frowned upon) and a base (especially one that is so good it could be regarded as its own perfume)?

    Certainly one's creative/financial goals play a role here, but just throwing it out there that perhaps laboring to make a base — which affects all points of your composition — might be ordering the cart and the horse a better way. I would think rustling with top notes to overlay/integrate once you have the longer-lasting elements of your composition established will allow you to focus on masking/altering ingredients that you already know a) what they are, and b) how they are functioning.

    </rant>

    Addendum: Too, I get that there are cases where it might make sense. Spending one's early time trying to make a rose base might be a little insane. If you need X and X is eXpensive and a base of similarity is 1/10th the cost, sure. But, from a holistic perspective is where I'm curious to throw this out.
    Last edited by aestheticindustrialist; 12th September 2017 at 06:54 PM.
    Currently wearing: Cap Néroli by Nicolaï

  11. #11
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by aestheticindustrialist View Post
    I wonder out loud if this is a poor philosophy to hold, especially as a beginner. Arguably, bases are key to making good perfumes, and the practice of using pre-made bases is not a fault, per se, of a perfumer's compositional skills. But, what does using a base early on serve? Namely, what does using a base allow you to focus on instead of trying to learn how to compose base notes? Is it perfecting top notes? Is it just making something 'complete' and 'wearable' early on? And would that just be an ego boost route so one can feel as if they have accomplished something, and then move forth? What, then, is the difference between a fragrance oil (often frowned upon) and a base (especially one that is so good it could be regarded as its own perfume)?

    Certainly one's creative/financial goals play a role here, but just throwing it out there that perhaps laboring to make a base — which affects all points of your composition — might be ordering the cart and the horse a better way. I would think rustling with top notes to overlay/integrate once you have the longer-lasting elements of your composition established will allow you to focus on masking/altering ingredients that you already know a) what they are, and b) how they are functioning.

    </rant>

    Addendum: Too, I get that there are cases where it might make sense. Spending one's early time trying to make a rose base might be a little insane. If you need X and X is eXpensive and a base of similarity is 1/10th the cost, sure. But, from a holistic perspective is where I'm curious to throw this out.

    For the time being, I`d choose a pre-created base for 2 reasons:
    1). its more affordable
    2). I don`t know what an excellent sandalwood is supposed to smell like,
    I have some Australian sandalwood essential oil 100% - but I`m unsure how well it represents "good sandalwood."

    All points are valid,
    I`m in no hurry, I`m certainly not looking to sell anything.
    Like you - it`s the process that interests me most.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    There is no perfect Sandalwood Substitute base available.
    There are bases, of course, and likely, I have them all.
    But the best base is that which I make myself, I'm afraid. (And Chris Bartlett makes an excellent one too.) Don't know if he sells it though...?
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  13. #13
    Basenotes Junkie Serg Ixygon's Avatar
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    The base could not be more affordable than AC cose you're paying for perfumer's job also. Sandella and Bacdanol, for example , are very cheap AC.
    Last edited by Serg Ixygon; 13th September 2017 at 07:24 PM.

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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    Hi guys,
    Does any one have any suggestions for a good quality, realistic synthetic Sandalwood?
    I tried the one from P.A. ...its loud, too dry, too chalky.

    I`d like to find myself a sweeter, muskier, more low profile sandalwood.
    Any suggestions?

    Thanks so much,
    Matthew
    Chris Bartlett from Pell Wall does a very high quality Sandalwood blend and at a fraction of the cost of pure Mysore Sandalwood. I have some myself and it has served me well. https://pellwall.com/product/sandalwood-blend/

  15. #15

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinkiwi View Post
    Mysore wood base is quite nice and diffusive
    I agree, Firmenich's "Mysore Wood Base" is the best I've tried so far.
    Currently wearing: Ébène by Pierre Balmain

  16. #16

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    I've found that no synthetic sandalwood chemical truly smells quite the same as the real thing, unfortunately. Though they can come fairly close.
    Javanol to me has a beautiful smell with a pleasant sandalwool creaminess. It's also pretty expensive.
    It seems to have a pretty natural sandalwood-type smell, only with the smell shifted just a little bit from the real thing. (And keep in mind it really only represents one facet within the overall natural smell of sandalwood, though the primary facet)
    Firsantol seems to capture more the woody white sawdust aspects of sandalwood, smells sort of like pine wood. In my opinion it does not really smell so much like sandalwood itself, but its addition is very useful to a sandalwood accord.
    I cannot recommend Sandaxol (Sandalmysore). It is cheaper, lower quality, and smells less like sandalwood than the other two. (Almost has an Elemi, tea tree oil, or lemon Pine-Sol smell) However some perfumers do make use of it to add highlights to an accord since it is sandalwood more in the form of a top note.

    Note that I do not have much experience with other sandalwood synthetics, unfortunately, so cannot provide my opinion on them.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    not any ac, but some they are coming closer : ebanol, for example..

  18. #18

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    If wanting distinct "sandalwood" note (you can get benefit while having less than this) I don't find any one synthetic sandalwood anything close to being able to make me think it could be sandalwood. That being said,

    Javanol as mentioned is excellent and I almost always include it, at under 1 ppt and more usually 0.2 - 0.6. It can fool you very easily because it won't smell too strong when you go too high, nor will it disappear (for many) so you don't get the obvious evidence of anosmic that could guide you the right way in going back down.

    Sandalore is nothing exciting but to my nose seems like a benchmark "perfume sandalwood" and if I need to save money then it's the main ingredient. It smells fine in substantial amount such as 30 ppt but certainly can be helped by additions. Besides other synthetic sandalwood, a little methyl laitone can help, and if no Iso-E Super is being used otherwise in the formula, a touch of it is nice for a better seeming sandalwood effect as well, at least to me.

    Also, traseolide, though not a sandalwood odorant, can work very well with them and tie-in sandalwood, musk, and "skin scent" quite well.

    If cost isn't an object santalol is the main ingredient, but it's not a synthetic and costs more than most sandalwood anyway so it's probably moot to discuss.

    There aren't any others I personally really like as sole sandalwood synthetics or in relatively large amount. (EDIT: Sandela to me serves all right in place of Sandalore but needs more "help.") I do like Firsantol at low amount, and optionally Hindinol at equal amount (advice I read somewhere but unfortunately can't remember who to credit) to bring out more toppiness if needed.

    I don't have a standard sandalwood base but rather adjust for each formula. When I can I prefer santalol/Firsantol/Javanol though, the latter two as enhancers/exalters.

    There are almost endless combinations possible. For example, I wasn't much interested by the Firmemich base mentioned, but I haven't tried what might be when added to as above or in a different way.

    I also haven't tried the Pell Wall sandalwood base. It will be my next purchase in that area.


    EDIT: Not wanting to add a new post to the thread with this, as it could side-track, but for interest here's Arcadi waxing euphorically on the sandalwood topic with some interesting information:

    I remember in my earlier times when smelling with an old Perkin Elmer GC, equipped with 2 meters packed columns, it smelled quite nice and this was because I was smelling both molecules (+)-Z-α-Santalol + (E)-α-Bergamotol together I thought mistakenly that (+)-Z-α-Santalol I believed this main chemical in the oil was olfactory very interesting when it was not. We separated them and got an almost pure sample and smelled a lovely milky note, quite characteristic from the Sandalwood oil and then we smelled peak by peak Epi-β-Santalol, (-)(Z)-β-Santalol, (E)-β-Santalol, (Z)-Lanceol, (E)-Nuciferol, Spirosantalol, the extremely important (−)-(E)-α-trans-Bergamotenone. As I mentioned before this (-)-(E)-α-Bergamotenone present in minute amounts (around 0.01%) is a very important ingredient of the oil providing a strong milky note while combined with Nor-α-trans-Bergamotenone, Nor-β-Santalenone and Nor-epi-β-Santalenone. This is the oil but today I will describe the fabulous (-)-(Z)-β-Santalol, considered the most typical, not milky but characteristic Sandalwood oil odorant...

    (-)(Z)-β-Santalol is extremely elegant and for sure the best sandalwood chemical even superior to Firsantol, Javanol, Pashminol, Nirvanol, Dartanol or Polysantol because it is as good as the oil, much dried without the milky note provided by the chemicals mentioned before and more powerful than the natural oil and it is the first time I am saying that a sandalwood chemical is at least as good as the natural oil. We could say that Sandalwood Oil Mysore has several essential notes, the milky note mainly provided by (E)-α-Bergamotol, (-)-(E)-α-Bergamotenone, Nor-α-trans-Bergamotenone, Nor-β-Santalenone and Nor-epi-β-Santalenone amongst other but these five are providing at least 98% of the milky note of the natural oil!, then a pyrrolic note provided by n-Furfuryl pyrrole, the characteristic note provided by (-) (Z)-β-Santalol and a certain woody earthy note provided by corresponding aldehydes like (-)(Z)-β-Santalal, or other alcohols as , (Z)-Lanceol, the highest peak in African sandalwood Oil and this is why the African oil is by far more earthy than the Indian Oil, (E)-Nuciferol and Spirosantalol.

    (-)-(Z)-β-Santalol is again one of the best chemicals even synthesized, extremely refined, radiating beauty, beauty which is glowing, gleaming and shining…
    So it sounds as if, though you cannot buy them, the most important materials within sandalwood, if you had to reduce it to three, are (-)-(Z)-β-Santalol (you can get this within commercially-available santalol, but not isolated), (E)-α-Bergamotol, and (−)-(E)-α-trans-Bergamotenone, the first providing the most characteristic sandalwood note, and the second two apparently being the most important but not only milky notes.

    I doubt that methyl laitone is really the best way available to us plebes for getting the milky aspect of the latter two but I don't have a better way myself.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 28th October 2019 at 02:14 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    What about Polysantol? Seems like a popular sandalwood replacer AC that is noticeable from the top down.

  20. #20

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    It's not bad at all as a component of a blend. I believe some experience a bit of a sour note from it, but I don't, and am perfectly glad to use some as part of a blend. To me it goes well with Firsantol.

    Polysantol to me is rather "transparent, " while real sandalwood and various other sandalwood odorants such as Firsantol or Javanol are not.

    BTW, I'm not at all trying to say absolutes about any of these or other materials. Certainly very successful things are accomplished with materials I personally have not cared to use, or smash success perfumes have dosed specific ones much higher than I have decided for myself. There really is a world of what one can do with possible combinations. Even if say limiting to only 3 or 4 materials. I think a lot can be done with that. Many go much more complex than this, though.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 27th October 2019 at 11:31 PM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    It's not bad at all as a component of a blend. I believe some experience a bit of a sour note from it, but I don't, and am perfectly glad to use some as part of a blend. To me it goes well with Firsantol.

    Polysantol to me is rather "transparent, " while real sandalwood and various other sandalwood odorants such as Firsantol or Javanol are not.

    BTW, I'm not at all trying to say absolutes about any of these or other materials. Certainly very successful things are accomplished with materials I personally have not cared to use, or smash success perfumes have dosed specific ones much higher than I have decided for myself. There really is a world of what one can do with possible combinations. Even if say limiting to only 3 or 4 materials. I think a lot can be done with that. Many go much more complex than this, though.
    Thank you, Bill. I am having trouble understanding what you mean by “transparent”, however.

    Edit: I may actually know what you were trying to say regarding “transparent” - do you mean materials like Polysantol assists the overall composition but does not necessarily stand out on its own?

  22. #22

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    It's a communications problem of mine that I often perceive and try to express what I perceived in terms that may have no agreed or precise perfuming meaning. To some extent I guess I have some synaesthesia of smell (crossing of senses.) A smell can be to me smooth or textured or rough, or high pitched or deep pitched (as with musical timbre and pitch,) or dense or light, etc. How to turn these into more factual things, I don't know. Transparent is one of them.

    I guess a smell that is transparent to me is one the can sit right in with other notes as an overlay so to speak, while one that is not transparent takes and commands its own space. It still can and should work in harmony with the rest of the composition and blend beautifully. but it has more substantive identity at same odor strength.

    So for example to me one reason Firsantol can help Polysantol greatly is because it adds "texture" and therefore perception of sandalwood -- but maybe in some applications transparency is better!

  23. #23

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    It's a communications problem of mine that I often perceive and try to express what I perceived in terms that may have no agreed or precise perfuming meaning. To some extent I guess I have some synaesthesia of smell (crossing of senses.) A smell can be to me smooth or textured or rough, or high pitched or deep pitched (as with musical timbre and pitch,) or dense or light, etc. How to turn these into more factual things, I don't know. Transparent is one of them.

    I guess a smell that is transparent to me is one the can sit right in with other notes as an overlay so to speak, while one that is not transparent takes and commands its own space. It still can and should work in harmony with the rest of the composition and blend beautifully. but it has more substantive identity at same odor strength.

    So for example to me one reason Firsantol can help Polysantol greatly is because it adds "texture" and therefore perception of sandalwood -- but maybe in some applications transparency is better!
    Fascinating. I wonder if many in this field have some form of synesthesia as I often perceive smells as smooth, rough, bright, dark, etc. For example, to me, cardamom oil is very rough while Fixateur 505 is very smooth.

  24. #24

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Differences in perception are indeed very interesting, but also fundamentally hard to gain knowledge of!

    At the risk of sadly overposting more than is appropriate on one thread:

    Due to the discussion, I went back through a lot of my stuff that's long since gone out of regular service but which I always thought had potential, including various sandalwood odorants. Also some newer items that I didn't feel inspired on receiving them to work with. All these items just weren't being used. As an amateur it's impossible to give hundreds of tries to each of hundreds of ingredients. But, going back time to time to check all the oldies or as many as possible is always a good thing.

    Not yet with having a chance to work with them again, but simply from smelling them and "vision" of how I could use them, I would be perfectly happy to put Polysantol (as already mentioned,) Sandalwood Oliffac A 8009, and Firmenich Mysore Wood Base into service.

    And back to the original thought of the thread: I really don't think a purpose should so much be to find a "best" synthetic sandalwood or one that is somehow the highest "quality," however that would be determined. Most of them are not expensive. For anyone, why not buy some modest number of them, even in sample size only, and try finding combinations that work well in formulas. It is not possible I think with our resources to make anything that an expert nose could be fooled into thinking is high quality natural Mysore, but it's not hard at all to make a nice "perfume" sandalwood.

    There is a world of "perfume" smell that I guess has been created over time by perfumers and our experiences of perfumes, and it has aesthetics of its own. Often, in perfume, a base made to perfume aesthetics, if I can create or use that phrase, can be about as suitable or sometimes even moreso than something really seeming to be or actually being natural.

  25. #25

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Quote Originally Posted by bsouthers View Post
    Fascinating. I wonder if many in this field have some form of synesthesia as I often perceive smells as smooth, rough, bright, dark, etc. For example, to me, cardamom oil is very rough while Fixateur 505 is very smooth.
    In terms of chemical structure, it has to do with containing lots of carbon-carbon double bonds. Terpenes tend to smell "scratchy", "woody", and have texture.

    Also Firstantol is the only sandalwood synthetic that contains the methylene group sticking out like the beta-santalol in real sandalwood does. I read somewhere that contributes to a certain unique type of smell (looking at the molecular structures, caryophyllene, camphene, and Prismantol probably have it too).
    That's why it may be important to add at least a little bit of it to any sandalwood accord.

  26. #26

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Btw, while not on the subject of synthetic, on the subject of sandalwood I just came on this interesting information on natural constituents within sandalwood:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=9R...0milky&f=false

    (You have to scroll up a little to start reading the relevant part.)

    It does maybe give an idea though as to why a single synthetic would be unlikely to be the best that one can do, or anything like, for coming up with a good perfume sandalwood. Even within the real thing there is not a single molecule that carries the whole job.

  27. #27

    Default Re: best quality synthetic sandalwood?

    Here's my review of Ebanol - almost slight chocolate / maple syrup tonality, wood. deeper, dark brown, a precious dark brown wood from the tropics, like mahogany, with some teak. reminiscent of sandalwood (and closer to it than Firsantol or Sandaxol ). a little fatty or a slight nut wood.
    Now to try to compare Javanol with Ebanol, Ebanol has more woodiness, but Javanol does a tiny bit better replicating the musky sandalwood effect. Javanol is a little bit more beautiful rose like and smooth. Sad to say but, even though these are among the best synthetics, neither truly really captures the exact feel of real sandalwood. At most, they approximate it, and smell like some other precious woods. (I'd say Ebanol and Javanol are a little bit closer to each other than they are to real sandalwood) Ebanol is not bad, and smells fairly natural though.




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