Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1

    Default Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    Hi! I'm on a pretty tight budget to create a scent for a friend as part of a valentines day promotion for her brand. She wants it to be pretty rose forward, and I already have a great deal of supply in terms of the other notes I will use. I don't typically use rose in my blends, i'm more of a Jasmine freak, myself. We're going to make about 10 bottles, 20ml total each.
    Since rose is pricy and I have little use for it elsewhere, i'm not interested in purchasing a large ammt.

    So my question is, do you think 5ml split between 10 bottles will be sufficient if we're being pretty rose forward? Or should I just be safe and get 15-30ml? I'm just unsure of the strength of pure rose, as i've only purchased it pretty heavily diluted in the past.

    Thanks!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    I have a Rose Marroco Otto 2ml bottle, it scents like Geranium EO, and have the same odor strength. I had not diluted it, but think that the diluted form is more apropriate for odor strength comparations.
    Last edited by marcio.leandro; 22nd January 2018 at 04:36 PM.

  3. #3
    Basenotes Junkie Dmitriy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    If you are using a 5ml rose oil for your 200ml perfume this will be a 2.5% concentration. It all depends on your design, that is, on what type of perfume you would like to create. A rose note should be a leading or simply as one of the constituent parts of an accord. If necessary, you can always support your rose oil with other rose aroma-chemicals. The recommended level of use for Rose Oil on TGSC is 4%

  4. #4

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    It depends on what formula you are filling the bottles with. 5ml might seem to be not enough for rose forward but I think that 30ml would be the max you would use. So it might be better to be safer than sorry and have the 30ml or at the very least get the 15ml.

  5. #5
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,977

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    Why not also use a synthetic base to extend the natural? Like Perfumers Apprentice Rose Key Accord...?
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by Universalflowering View Post
    Hi! I'm on a pretty tight budget to create a scent for a friend as part of a valentines day promotion for her brand. She wants it to be pretty rose forward, and I already have a great deal of supply in terms of the other notes I will use. I don't typically use rose in my blends, i'm more of a Jasmine freak, myself. We're going to make about 10 bottles, 20ml total each.
    Since rose is pricy and I have little use for it elsewhere, i'm not interested in purchasing a large ammt.

    So my question is, do you think 5ml split between 10 bottles will be sufficient if we're being pretty rose forward? Or should I just be safe and get 15-30ml? I'm just unsure of the strength of pure rose, as i've only purchased it pretty heavily diluted in the past.

    Thanks!
    Otto or absolute? Otto would tend to be stronger.

    Are you allocating part of your rose purchase to R & D? Take that into account when planning how much to buy.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    Offered this as an option this but she requested all naturals!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    You can use reduce the amount of Rose oil you need and extend it using Geranium.

  9. #9
    Basenotes Member Nascent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    The only way to have a very rose forward perfume is to either use more rose absolute (at least 15ml) or use synthetics\natural isolates to extend the note. 30ml rose absolute split across 10 bottles will give you a 15% concentration, 15ml will give you a 7.5% concentration. I do not think that 5ml will be noticeable enough, but it depends on the other materials you’ll be using. If you use natural isolates, you will be able to get away with less rose.

    When I look at the GC/MS of my own Rose absolute from Bulgaria, it is comprised of 55.62% phenyl ethyl alcohol, 9.65% citronellol, 6.3% geraniol, 3.22% nerol, and 1.84% eugenol with a bunch of unknown minor constituents. All of the main molecules are pretty cheap and widely available. Unfortunately it’s difficult to create a convincing rose from isolates by themselves, but if you use them to extend the natural absolute or extract, you’ll get better results. A little bit of extra eugenol will add more spice, citronellol and geraniol will add some citrus and green notes, and phenyl ethyl alchohol will add floral, honey, and sweet aspects (what most people associate with rose). You might want to consider a bit of geranyl acetate, too. I’ve had success using it to extend the depth. Most of these natural isolates can be found at Perfumer’s Apprentice.

    I also find that rose absolute can sometimes end up hiding in the base notes of a perfume. Most of the rose materials I’ve worked with are fairly nuanced and “quiet” in a blend. Adding natural isolates will brighten the rose note and bring it more to the forefront. Whatever rose essential oil, extract, or absolute you end up buying, it’s best to get one with GC/MS testing so you can see what’s in it. Some extracts and absolutes are more honeyed and sweet, some are more green and fresh. They all have different intensity levels. Knowing what’s inside your rose material will make blending much easier.

    As far as rose’s “strength” and intensity, jasmine sambac and grandiflorum absolute has more sillage than bulgarian rose absolute, in my experience. You will need more rose than jasmine in a blend. That being said, certain rose materials, like rose otto, are quite intense. Since it is steam distilled, it behaves more like a top note. The only downside is that it doesn’t have the same honeyed, animalic aspects as other roses and it has a smaller percentage of phenyl ethyl alcohol. So if you end up going with otto, I recommend purchasing some phenyl ethyl alcohol and phenylacetic acid to round it out. Phenylacetic acid will give it more of an animalic, rich, decadent feel (similar to the absolutes) and since it’s a base note, it will extend the otto further. The natural isolates will also bring down the cost of the rose, which is a big plus. All the isolates I’ve mentioned can be used in many different perfumes, not just rose based ones, so I think they are a valuable investment for any perfumer.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    I was never able to use phenyl acetic acid successfully. The honey/urine drydown was invariably awful, no matter how little I used. I'd say that if phenyl acetic acid is used at all, it needs to be a minor part of a well-developed base note accord.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascent View Post
    The only way to have a very rose forward perfume is to either use more rose absolute (at least 15ml) or use synthetics\natural isolates to extend the note. 30ml rose absolute split across 10 bottles will give you a 15% concentration, 15ml will give you a 7.5% concentration. I do not think that 5ml will be noticeable enough, but it depends on the other materials you’ll be using. If you use natural isolates, you will be able to get away with less rose.

    When I look at the GC/MS of my own Rose absolute from Bulgaria, it is comprised of 55.62% phenyl ethyl alcohol, 9.65% citronellol, 6.3% geraniol, 3.22% nerol, and 1.84% eugenol with a bunch of unknown minor constituents. All of the main molecules are pretty cheap and widely available. Unfortunately it’s difficult to create a convincing rose from isolates by themselves, but if you use them to extend the natural absolute or extract, you’ll get better results. A little bit of extra eugenol will add more spice, citronellol and geraniol will add some citrus and green notes, and phenyl ethyl alchohol will add floral, honey, and sweet aspects (what most people associate with rose). You might want to consider a bit of geranyl acetate, too. I’ve had success using it to extend the depth. Most of these natural isolates can be found at Perfumer’s Apprentice.

    I also find that rose absolute can sometimes end up hiding in the base notes of a perfume. Most of the rose materials I’ve worked with are fairly nuanced and “quiet” in a blend. Adding natural isolates will brighten the rose note and bring it more to the forefront. Whatever rose essential oil, extract, or absolute you end up buying, it’s best to get one with GC/MS testing so you can see what’s in it. Some extracts and absolutes are more honeyed and sweet, some are more green and fresh. They all have different intensity levels. Knowing what’s inside your rose material will make blending much easier.

    As far as rose’s “strength” and intensity, jasmine sambac and grandiflorum absolute has more sillage than bulgarian rose absolute, in my experience. You will need more rose than jasmine in a blend. That being said, certain rose materials, like rose otto, are quite intense. Since it is steam distilled, it behaves more like a top note. The only downside is that it doesn’t have the same honeyed, animalic aspects as other roses and it has a smaller percentage of phenyl ethyl alcohol. So if you end up going with otto, I recommend purchasing some phenyl ethyl alcohol and phenylacetic acid to round it out. Phenylacetic acid will give it more of an animalic, rich, decadent feel (similar to the absolutes) and since it’s a base note, it will extend the otto further. The natural isolates will also bring down the cost of the rose, which is a big plus. All the isolates I’ve mentioned can be used in many different perfumes, not just rose based ones, so I think they are a valuable investment for any perfumer.
    Thank you! Yeah, I have all of these isolates on hand and am excited to use them with rose. I'm a huge fan of Phenylacetic acid - I know it's polarizing for some but I usually have great success using it many blends.

  12. #12
    Basenotes Member Nascent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Rose bulgaria in a very small run of perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by Universalflowering View Post
    Thank you! Yeah, I have all of these isolates on hand and am excited to use them with rose. I'm a huge fan of Phenylacetic acid - I know it's polarizing for some but I usually have great success using it many blends.
    How wonderful that you already have everything on hand! I hope I wasn't too reductive. Wishing you all the best with your rose perfume!




Similar Threads

  1. World-famous Turkish & taif & Bulgaria rose oil
    By OttomanEmpire in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 23rd January 2016, 01:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000